LOL. I seem to recall that the tossing of a gnome with a rope was involved...
My group will be heading to the Shadow Clock next time. They killed all the cultists and spared Ironbriar (for now) in case they need more information. They were able to figure out that he was charmed and they managed to dispel it. They then successfully interrogated him and learned everything he knew--which didn't seem to be a whole lot from what I could tell. He knew now that he had been charmed, it wasn't clear if he'd ever seen Xanesha in her true form, so I had him figure she was human as she appears. He revealed the fact that they've got a flesh golem and several faceless stalkers, and the location of the Shadow Clock. I don't think he knows what Xanesha's real purpose is, though, or the full extent of her power.
The party just reached 7th level (actually long overdue, because I gave them a side quest related to the back-story of two of the PCs). If the party Cleric (of Desna) casts "Divination", any suggestions about what she learns? The description of that spell is awfully vague.
I believe All the cultists and Iron Briar have rogue levels and Rogues get proficiency with the Hand crossbow
I believe All the cultists and Iron Briar have rogue levels and Rogues get proficiency with the Hand crossbow
Thats correct.
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My group will be heading to the Shadow Clock next time. They killed all the cultists and spared Ironbriar (for now) in case they need more information. They were able to figure out that he was charmed and they managed to dispel it. They then successfully interrogated him and learned everything he knew--which didn't seem to be a whole lot from what I could tell. He knew now that he had been charmed, it wasn't clear if he'd ever seen Xanesha in her true form, so I had him figure she was human as she appears. He revealed the fact that they've got a flesh golem and several faceless stalkers, and the location of the Shadow Clock. I don't think he knows what Xanesha's real purpose is, though, or the full extent of her power.
The party just reached 7th level (actually long overdue, because I gave them a side quest related to the back-story of two of the PCs). If the party Cleric (of Desna) casts "Divination", any suggestions about what she learns? The description of that spell is awfully vague.
Actually, if the PCs managed to keep him alive and dispel the charm on him, then I'd have him tell them she's a lamia matriarch. He's probably seen her in her natural form at some point. They're taking extra steps beyond "I kill it until it's dead," so I'd reward them for working for this outcome. Once they know what they're up against, they can start making some decisions on how they want to fight her and her minions.
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My group is just about up to that point, too. Last time, we got as far as facing the fake Aldern and Iesha at Foxglove's townhouse, which was fun to role play a little just to see the looks on their faces.
They'll be hitting the Seven's Sawmill tomorrow night, and probably the clock tower, too, though our group does tend to be incredibly slow.
You know I'm sure if we looked around we could find a "Slow Gamers at Play" sign for you...
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I honestly believe that ending the session right as Aldern Foxglove walks down the steps from the second floor of his townhouse is one of the best cliffhangers for any game I've run. The look on the players' faces is priceless.
We kept going and had the fight, rather than ending with that as a cliffhanger. But their initial reaction was awesome.
They figured out pretty quickly, both in character and out, that this wasn't the same Aldern they'd met before. And they were pretty sure the undead version they'd killed was the same one they'd gone boar hunting with. They quickly jumped to the conclusion that this was an imposter, but they really didn't have a good reason for that conclusion. As I pointed out afterward, how did they know the one they'd previously been dealing with wasn't the imposter, and this wasn't the real Aldern?
But I had the stalkers go on the offensive as soon as they got a squishy looking caster into a good sneak attackable position, so the PCs didn't get to be the ones to start the aggression.
As long as we're praising that scene, let me jump in as well. I *LOVED* it! I even got my group all around the dining room table and ready to sit down and eat. I forget what the PCs did to give away that they were suspicious, but my stalkers got their surprise attacks in, too.
And it was just awesome having them reach ACROSS the table with stretchy arms to hit the sorcerer from 10' away.
True fun!
P.S. And curse you, Fromper! Now I need to go get a custom sign made that says "Slow! Gamers at play!" so I can put in on my porch during gaming sessions. It just makes me giggle.
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That's pretty much the way it played out at my table too, NobodysHome. I sprang the ambush by having Iesha head into the kitchen to get some snacks for the group, and having him lead them into the dining room to talk. When the door opened, "Iesha" was in her natural form, and they watched Aldern shift in front of them and stretch his arms across the room to grab a sword off the wall. Good times.
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Silly question: How strong is the evil aura of the skinsaw cultists in the sawmill? Per the description of Detect Evil, a 1st level cleric has a weak evil aura, while a level 2-4 cleric would have a moderate aura. But since these guys have only 1 level of cleric, with 2 hit dice from another class (rogue), do the rogue levels count towards the strength of their aura (based on HD?) or is the aura strength based only on cleric levels?
When the paladin detected evil on two of them coming and going while staking out the place, I said they had moderate evil auras, based on their total hit dice. Just want to know if I was right.
It says class level in the detect evil spell description which I would interprete as class levels in a class giving you an aura, i.e. the cleric class.
Difference would only come into play/matter if your PCs would like to "sniff out" a room where the evil clerics lingered some time ago, as the stronger auras would be detectable for a longer period of time (faint: rounds, moderate: minutes).
Ruyan.
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I honestly believe that ending the session right as Aldern Foxglove walks down the steps from the second floor of his townhouse is one of the best cliffhangers for any game I've run. The look on the players' faces is priceless.
I did this. For a week the PC were like WTF! We killed him. Then they got all paranoid thinking they somehow turned him into a lich (since he was in the manor). They had the journal of Vorel and where looking through that.
The next week they killed him quickly and realized he was not a lich, much to their relief.
After my PC's went to the Sawmill they captured Ironbriar. Well the sorcerer killed him to -9 hp and the cleric brought him back to get information. Wrath point? Yes please!
One of my favorite things, as the PC's did not have a base of operations was they decided to take up the Townhouse. I was trying to get them into the pathfinder lodge where Sheila is to work in the Shattered star stuff.
So when they returned to the townhouse they heard large steps upstairs, the rogue snuck up their and saw scarecrow, but did not know what it was. They all fled quickly. Before they could escape unnoticed Scarecrow grabbed the sorcerer and threw him against the wall in the house then barred the door shut.
I got to watch my impulsive sorcerer squirm as all his spells did nothing, and he actually healed him. Didn't help that he rolled a 1 on his knowledge arcana check. The party broke in to the house. He was like we need to run, we can't hurt this guy. The paladin says "you cant, but we can."
Classic you should have seen the look on his face. The sorcerer is rather impulsive thinking he is god and all, was nice to put him in his place a little and now he knows theirs bigger fish.
My search-fu has apparently failed me. :(
I could have sworn that I saw somewhere on the boards some rules for handling dust explosions (a.k.a. deflagration) at the Seven's sawmill. With a high concentration of inflammable particles in the air (and on the floor), any fire or spark source (read: Burning Hands, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, etc.) could make the whole place go up.
While the chances for that are very low on the lower levels (due to the moisture in the air from river and thrown up by the waterwheels), I would consider it to be a real risk on the upper levels (particularly where the floor is almost ankle-deep in sawdust).
Has anyone any advice to offer on this topic?
Seriously, does no one have any suggestions?
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I couldn't find any on the site, and my Google fu has failed me.
While I don't disagree that this would be a great way to challenge the players (and, in fact, I did this very thing in 2E), it does bring up one problem. If the PCs decide to attack at night, then the cultists need to have some light source in the sawmill. This being old-timey times, that means lanterns or some other source of fire. Since a dust explosion requires an ignition source, why would it suddenly explode with the introduction of the PCs, and not while the cultists are the only ones there? They'd need some sort of magical light, and that starts to get expensive.
But, just spitballing here, it should probably be an environmental hazard. Unsure about the CR, but maybe 1d6 points of fire damage per CR, with the first floor a CR 1, and the top floor a CR 4? (Reflex DC 15 for half.)
Well, if the place is being funded by a well-heeled secret society (minor aristocrats, etc.), then I could see the Brotherhood springing for some continual flame torches. They would light up the place but present no fire hazard (i.e., no actual flame).
It would only be foolish invading adventurers who would be dumb enough to bring live flame into the building, or cast spells using Fire or Electricity.
Maybe an environmental hazard would cover the situation, as you suggested. With a specific type of trigger and escaltating CR/damage the higher one is in the building.
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I'd agree with you, with the caveat that your average sawmill probably doesn't spring for bunches of magical torches (that cost 150 gp per, mind you), just to avoid explosions that are preventable by not working during the night. The Seven's Sawmill totally could buy everburning torches, but then that would beg the question "Where did they get the money?"
I'll run with the "eccentric rich owners" explanation, particularly as they do have the habit of operating at night too.
Just use safety lanterns.
In the real world, Humphfrey Davey invented them in the early 1800s.
I'd agree with you, with the caveat that your average sawmill probably doesn't spring for bunches of magical torches (that cost 150 gp per, mind you), just to avoid explosions that are preventable by not working during the night. The Seven's Sawmill totally could buy everburning torches, but then that would beg the question "Where did they get the money?"
It could easily be a city by-law that requires mills and grain silos to use light sources that don't constitute a fire risk. This would increase the end cost of cut timber, but not by that much, since the cost of using torches or lamp oil will add up eventually.
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Just use safety lanterns.
In the real world, Humphfrey Davey invented them in the early 1800s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_lamp
Yeah, these would work too. Though in a universe with everburning torches I wonder if people would bother inventing them.If you use a lamp every night and use 1 flask of oil in it per night, then you are spending 36.5 gp per year on oil, plus the cost of the lamp. Under such circumstances, at 110 gp a pop an everburning torch pays for itself in about 3 years.
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My thought exactly. And the Seven have owned that mill for roughly 100 years, so that would have been a lot of lamp oil saved if they had bought everburning torches at the start.
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... Xanesha was a TPK machine in the 3.5 original. For the AE edition (updated to PF) they ended up swapping Xanesha and her sister.
Which edition are you using? (Six single volumes = 3.5, one collected volume = PF/AE.) The number of points used to build the PCs can also have an effect on how easy it is to fight the monsters. An AP is designed for four not particularly optimised characters made with a 15-point build. (Of course, good tactics and strategy also helps the players.)
If you're using the AE version, and really want to give the party a work-out, give Xanesha two levels of Sorcerer (again) instead of Rogue. Remember, the actual Sorcerer class levels stack with the lamia matriarch's own spellcasting.
Her spell set-up in 3.5 was (not adjusted for PF):
4. Dimension Door
3. Fly, Haste
2. Invisibility, Scorching Ray, Silence
1. CLW, Divine Favour, Mage Armour, Magic Missile, Shield
0. Acid Splash, Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand, Mending, Prestidigitation
As you can see, if she is allowed to buff pre-combat, her AC goes up by +9 (Mage Armour, Shield, Haste), and she can have Fly, Mirror Image, and Invisibility running. Plus she drops a Silence just inside her lair's door (and can keep far enough away not to be affected by it herself).
In combat she has the Sihedron Medallion, casts Divine Favour for even more "oomph", and if still invisible then makes the "demon summoning" illusion to draw fire. If reduced to ca. half her hit points, she then flies out into the sky around the tower, and continues fighting using spells/other ranged attack forms.
It also specifically describes how she will push any temporarily petrified characters over the edge of the tower for 16d6 falling damage (a tactic omitted from the AE version). That's a particularly messy demise, considering that the petrification effect ends after one minute. ("There are bits of Bob scattered all over the street below.")
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I had Xanesha go invis and climb down the side of the tower to heal herself during the final fight. Ran her as written from the Anniversary Edition, and it was challenging for my group that's plowed through most of the AP easily. I had a chance for her to kill someone in that fight, but I mis-played the tactics a little, so nobody died.
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Yeah, the faceless stalkers are pretty easy. So is the sawmill.
The judge has the potential to be tough if he can join the fight before the PCs are all over him. When I ran it, my group tripped and grappled him, so he couldn't cast. Remember that using his mask to cast Confusion is just a verbal action that doesn't provoke or require concentration. That was the only thing that made that fight even remotely interesting, due to our cavalier's smart use of combat maneuvers.
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Regarding the Seven's Sawmill ...
I'm turning Irionbriar into a Warpriest 8 with the Cult Leader archetype. While that does take Evasion away from him, anyone who throws around fire and electrical spells in the sawmill will find out about "dust explosions" (or sawdust, in this case). I'm also going to make the cultists various classes, so that they're not all the same.
As for the Foxglove townhouse, I'm not currently planning a big fight there. For one thing, it's supposed to be more of a "detective" encounter, and the party won't get much of a chance to investigate properly if the neighbours call in the watch because there's been a pitched battle next door.
All of this is in the near future for me. I have two groups currently playing RotR AE, and only one has just finished Burnt Offerings (the second one is still dealing with "Glass and Wrath").
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What makes you say he can activate the mask with just verbal. When you use an item to cast a spell, you basically cast it yourself using the item's caster level. This item has full somantic, verbal etc so it would provoke and be a standard action from my understanding of the rules.
I don't think so. The item description does use the word "cast" in reference to the confusion spell but I think that's a short hand not strictly intended to mean cast as in casting a spell. The mask is a wondrous items and wondrous items are usable by anyone (Core, p. 496.) There's no indication there is a prerequisite to be a caster or have Confusion on a class spell list in the description. In a quick and unscientific search, I found a couple other wondrous items that use the "cast" as well - Cloak of Arachnida and Scarab of Keen Edges. Those don't mention any limits on user qualifications either. I believe the reference is to be interpreted to work more like a spell trigger item. Also, regardless Table 8-2 (Core, p. 183) indicates that activating a magic item other than a potion or oil does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though it is a standard action.)
We are doing AE. That push petrified guy off wall is interesting... :)
Hiding down the wall to heal up is also interesting.Create pit causes a lot of problems for NPCs, at least this one can climb very well.
Also they are highly optimized chars somewhere just above 15 point buy.
Also any feedback on the other 2 magnimar encounters? I already added some traps to the townhouse because 2 CR 4s sounded pretty unchallenging.
The Mill was moderately challenging. My group tried to sneak in late in the evening and as a result ran into the cult preparing to go out on another hunt. So they fought all the cultists and Ironbriar in rapid waves separated by a round or two. A couple cultists did escape.
Xanesha was a challenge but while I didn't change her stats I sure changed her tactics. Since a couple cultists survived and fled to the tower and the pc's followed the ravens the next day, Xanesha knew what had happened to Ironbriar. And the pc's knew something was going on at the Shadow Clock but wanted to translate Ironbriar's journal first. So Xanesah had several days warning. She used her illusion, and polymorph and charm and healing powers (which are woefully under-utilized in her scripted tactics) to recruit allies among the citizens and petty criminals of Underbridge. She pretended to be a noble woman on the run from ruthless and corrupt nobles and guards. Always ready to believe the worst about the Magnimar's leaders and police, the folk of Underbridge were more than ready to believe her. When the pc's reached the Clock and fought the Scarecrow and two surviving cultists, she used her illusion powers to make it appear a human woman and a few cultists were fleeing the area. This baited the pc's into an ambush of local thugs and other underbridge citizens (used the Magnimar city book for many of these.) The pc's broke up the ambush, hunted down a surviving attacker, ran afoul of the owner of the Friendly Merchant and assumed they'd lost their quarry. They stopped back at the Clock Tower just to see if they'd "missed anything" and ran into the bell ambush. I moved the faceless stalkers to the roof to fight alongside Xanesha. They appeared to be more Skinsaw Cultists summoning a Bearded Devil and that got the pc's to recklessly charge in to prevent it. She almost killed the wizard with a sneak attack (she was invisible.) A long fight ensued including the pc's running up and down the stairs (carefully) searching for her. As others mentioned above, I had her climb and otherwise move about the tower however she wanted - along the outer walls, on ceilings, etc. Eventually they cornered her and took her out. Next round the cleric probably would have died and that might have turned the tide pretty dramatically. So yea, depending on how you play her, she can be a real challenge. If the dwarven fighter had failed his save vs petrification early on in the fight, that too might have been very bad for the pc's.
I wonder how many GMs actually used that "push the petrified character off the tower" tactic. Any answers out there? :)
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I wonder how many GMs actually used that "push the petrified character off the tower" tactic. Any answers out there? :)
I might guess (hope?) not too many. Why? Because it makes the DM into a <word that rhymes with trick or bassmole> Why? Because the petrified character is already disabled. If your goal is to kill as many pc's as possible while assuming Xanesha is going to die anyway it's a fantastic tactic. But for a creature in Xanesha's situation, it's a vindictively suicidal move. She's already at a disadvantage in the "action economy" - narrative translation, she should not waste time and effort on a completely threatless enemy while others (the rest of the pc's) are in the immediate vicinity with the ability and motivation to kill her. Sure there are a variety of possible scenarios where she's alone with the petrified character or it's the last move of a TPK (Thanks DM! Please pour more lemon juice on our paper cut, please.) But in general, taking the time to permanently kill a petrified character while the other pc's continue to attack her is foolish on her part. More interesting would be for her to threaten the petrified character - prehensilely dangling the statue over the edge in her coils, etc. And compelling the rest of the pc's to surrender or retreat.
I suppose if the petrification was nearing the end of 1 minute and the petrified character represented another enemy joining the fray, it would make sense. But how many fights last more than 10 rounds let alone 10 rounds after the character is first petrified?
What makes you say he can activate the mask with just verbal. When you use an item to cast a spell, you basically cast it yourself using the item's caster level. This item has full somantic, verbal etc so it would provoke and be a standard action from my understanding of the rules.
That's why:
Activation: Usually use-activated or command word, but details vary from item to item.
Ruyan.
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To be fair, if they plan accordingly, she's a lot easier to deal with. Even pre-nerf Xanesha can probably be taken down fairly easily if you don't climb up the Tower, but go in from the top. Personally, I'd reward them for thinking tactically about things rather than just kicking in the door and taking their lumps. They should be rewarded for smart play, after all!
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To be fair, if they plan accordingly, she's a lot easier to deal with. Even pre-nerf Xanesha can probably be taken down fairly easily if you don't climb up the Tower, but go in from the top. Personally, I'd reward them for thinking tactically about things rather than just kicking in the door and taking their lumps. They should be rewarded for smart play, after all!
Yeah, my group considered flying to the top of the tower, instead of entering through the door and working their way up. They decided that would use too many of their spells, so they might not be ready for what they faced (it would have taken all of the sorcerer's 3rd level spells for the day). But it probably would have made the whole thing so much easier that her lack of level 3 spells wouldn't matter.
As is, the tower offered some minor challenge until they got to Xanesha, which was a tough enough fight to scare the heck out of them. I could have killed a PC, but I had Xanesha attack the most immediate threats to her instead, which was a mistake on my part. She should have targeted the healer first (after seeing him heal someone), even though he wasn't the one hurting her. So there should have been a PC death, but I messed it up, and they just barely escaped with no deaths, despite 2 of them hitting -10 HP at least once during the fight.
And the petrification mask was a bust. That DC 15 (IIRC?) save is just too easy at that level, especially since I had her try it on the healer, who she had no way of knowing would have a better fort save than most of the others.
For those curious as to what happened:
Turn 1: magus and paladin move adjacent to her while invisible flying.
Turn 2: Mage from way back outside the tower casts MS4 downgraded to MS3 to get multiples with the feat that gives one extra.
Turn 3: 3 Lantern Archons appear and the alpha strike of magus intensified shocking grasp full attack combined with paladin smite evil hit. The shocking grasp is spell resisted.
Mage starts casting a 2nd MS4Turn 4: all 3 people had higher imitative. Enter 2 more lantern archons and another full attack from each melee including another shocking grasp. This shocking grasp is not spell resisted.
Xenesha dead before acting on round after suprise round.
Each lantern archon gets 1d6 touch attack x2 bypassing her high AC. That was 16 attacks(3+3+2) * 2
2 physical hits from magus, one of them critted and one sucesfull 5d6 shocking grasp
2 physical smite hits from paladin each power attacked dealing 30 damage or so.One dead Xenesha before she could mirror image, sancutary, shield etc. I let her start with mage armor since that is so long.
Did I miss any opportunities?
Invisibility and flight are not automatically silent. Xanesha should get a perception check for both the magus and paladin moving adjacent to her. Armor doesn't make noise only when you walk, it makes noise whenever you move any part of your body. Magus and Paladin each make stealth checks to move adjacent to her. With armor penalties. Sure invisibility gives you a bonus but not auto-success. And it doesn't do anything about noise - like breathing, clothes rustling. etc. - they're 5 feet away from her for criminy sakes.
Maximum ray range for archons is 30 feet. Assuming mage is 8th level, maximum range for summon monster is 45 feet so he/she is casting a spell 75 feet away from her in a direction where there should be no sound. Unless the spell is Silent, she should get a perception check for that too.
Her perception (AE version) is nothing to write home about so she could punt those easily enough and maybe she did. But if she makes any of them, no surprise round.
Her initiative is pretty good though so getting the pc's all ahead of her would be bad luck.
My rules mastery is not as high as others but I might interpret the Lantern Archon 2 ray attacks as a full attack so in Turn 3 (what I assume would be the surprise round) they would only get one ray not two. Also, given her touch AC is 16 and the lanterns are only +3, they should still miss 60% of the time.
This all pre-supposes the group knows exactly where she's standing and what she is, etc. before initiating this well-orchestrated plan. How did they find that out? Do they have scrying ability or did they fly around to check it out first - that should trigger perception checks too.
I'll not open the Pandora's box of a paladin sneak attacking an opponent from invisibility. But an argument could be made...
But all that said, if the pc's have a good plan, they can turn things into a cake walk. My group's Conjurer has stumbled onto the wonder that is the lantern archon as well. Multiple, flight capable, touch attack, bypass all DR creatures are pretty sweet.
This is a danger of the solo BBEG - if the pc's find a vulnerability, the word your most likely to find is "anti-climatic." Have to watch for that in the lowest-common-denominator AP designs. Frankly it's stupid for her faceless stalker minions to be on the level below. It only takes one to activate the bell trap. The others should be near her as body guards (extra perception checks and damage absorbers.)