The Skinsaw Murders (GM Reference)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a question about other's experiences running the boss fight in area B37 (AE) of the Misgivings. I have five PCs and my instinct is that the room is too small, especially in terms of the Skinsaw Man's tactic of targeting the object of his obsession. In my campaign his obsession is for the archery focused Ranger, who certainly won't be approachable without using acrobatics, but might not be approachable at all due to the room size.

On the other hand maybe the point is having it be so confined that the PCs are tripping over each other, not being able to completely surround the Skinsaw Man, and him utilizing his acrobatics constantly. That had been my experience with the boss fight in the Glassworks.

Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Meangarr wrote:

I have a question about other's experiences running the boss fight in area B37 (AE) of the Misgivings. I have five PCs and my instinct is that the room is too small, especially in terms of the Skinsaw Man's tactic of targeting the object of his obsession. In my campaign his obsession is for the archery focused Ranger, who certainly won't be approachable without using acrobatics, but might not be approachable at all due to the room size.

On the other hand maybe the point is having it be so confined that the PCs are tripping over each other, not being able to completely surround the Skinsaw Man, and him utilizing his acrobatics constantly. That had been my experience with the boss fight in the Glassworks.

Thoughts?

We just got through the Misgivings a week ago, and that was our experience, too (especially when the half-orc fighter took his potion of enlarge person). Five members of the party walked into the laboratory two rounds after Iesha started her assault on Aldern. The only PC who got in a melee attack on Aldern was the rogue, who snuck around from the side so that he was flanked by Iesha and got in a solid sneak attack that did around 20 HP of damage. Around then, the "Aldern" personality reasserted itself and he begged for mercy, the enlarged fighter grappled Iesha to give Aldern a chance to spill a little information on the Seven before the Skinsaw Man took over. Skinsaw got maybe 10 words into his monologue before the rogue stabbed him again and crit, and that was the end of that. She really hates monologing villains.


Meangarr wrote:

I have a question about other's experiences running the boss fight in area B37 (AE) of the Misgivings. I have five PCs and my instinct is that the room is too small, especially in terms of the Skinsaw Man's tactic of targeting the object of his obsession. In my campaign his obsession is for the archery focused Ranger, who certainly won't be approachable without using acrobatics, but might not be approachable at all due to the room size.

On the other hand maybe the point is having it be so confined that the PCs are tripping over each other, not being able to completely surround the Skinsaw Man, and him utilizing his acrobatics constantly. That had been my experience with the boss fight in the Glassworks.

Thoughts?

yep, ran that encounter 3 weeks ago. the Skinsaw Man stood no chance

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Tonight, my players took on Justice Ironbriar and the Skinsaw Cult at the Sawmill. The good news is that they were buffed to the nines (Blessing of Fervor, Prayer, and the dwarf monk and half-orc fighter were enlarged). The bad news is that they broke into the Seven's Sawmill at midnight on Oathday, because that's when Aldern delivered the money for "Iesha's travel expenses," so they were up against all 13 cultists plus Ironbriar at the same time.

It took 3 hours and 15 minutes to run the seven rounds of combat, but it was very cool.

The party caught them by surprise, so Ironbriar had not used any of his buffs (except for Undetectable Alignment, which I assume he casts as soon as he gets up in the morning). He cast Invisibility right away, then took three rounds to buff. Meantime, the party plowed through the cultists. At the end of the combat, seven cultists were dead, and six cultists were alive, and Ironbriar's three summoned Lemure devils had been sent back to Hell. Ironbriar had been hit by the eldritch knight's Lightning Bolts twice, and had been grappled by the enlarged monk; when everyone else was down, the monk released the grapple and punched Ironbriar in the head for enough non-lethal damage to send him to Nighty-Night Land for a few hours.

The party dumped the whole mess in the lap of the Chaplain of the Temple of Iomedae and the Lord Mayor's Guard, but the Chaplain suggested they hang onto Ironbriar's journal to make nothing "happens" to it before it gets translated.


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My players' characters took on Xanesha last night. I had added a will o'wisp to the encounter with Xanesha because there are five players with effective characters (and I was pretty sure that they would try a roof-top entry to the Shadowclock, thereby by-passing the Scarecrow, the Terrible Stair, and probably the faceless stalkers too). I had also upped the AE Xanesha from Rogue 1 to Rogue 2.

The will o'wisp provided the much-neeeded advance warning as the party approached by air. The succubus illusion was a distraction at the start. Xanesha proved to be an unpleasant surprise to the party (they've been waltzing through most enounters lately). Two faceless stalkers approached up the scaffolding "stairs", but were taken out by a combination of the druid's Flame Strike and the resulting fall (70 hp!) as the scaffolding where they were standing was blasted away by the same spell. In combat, the will o'wisp was mostly a distraction, but was valuable in taking down Mirror Images with its attacks and providing the occasional flanking situation.

Xanesha was mostly toying with her prey, testing their defences, but then things suddenly got serious for her (her two minions had fallen off the tower, the party pulled themselves together ... and their dice stopped misbehaving quite so badly). She was close to fleeing, when the magus hit her with a Shocking Grasp spellstrike enhanced with the Lingering Pain arcana (from UC).

Beware of the Lingering Pain arcana! Delivered with enough damage, it will mess up any spellcaster in combat who has to make a concentration check. :(

I am looking ahead in this AP to future combats involving enemy spellcasters, and am wondering what they can do to protect themselves from such tactics. Aside from not taking the damage in the first place, of course (via protection from the relevant energy form).


Quick question concerning B7 and Ironbar. My party arrived in Magnimar broke into Foxglove townhouse (only two chars, but they were invisible). Aldern and Iesha did notice them and literally ran into them, landing som hits on the invis PCs. The faceless stalkers revealed their true appereance. Than the PCs managed to escape invis, and one stalker just closed the door again (they didn’t follow the PCs into the yard). The party retreated and are planning to break into the house again at night.
What should I do? Should the stalkers somehow report to Ironbar (if they do, how can they get out the shutdown house without being suspicious? Should Ironbar send some cultists to the house, or the big Scarecrow Monster? Should he talk to Xanesha?

My party didn’t speak to any officials in Magnimar so far. They’re also planning to report this “incident” to the guards. What should happen if they do?

This seems a very crucial point in the plot, IMHO. So some advices would be great.


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Anubis2406 wrote:
...So some advices would be great.

First decision is if you, as the GM, want to let things get off the rails.

Pacing is often how I make these decisions. If the game has been running too quickly and the PC's are behind in XP or treasure, the extra "content" of going off the rails can help. However, going off the rails a lot can really dilute or confuse the plot of the AP and in that situation, the PCs get the benefit of "luck" and their plans go as they wish.

If you want to stick to the AP, have the stalkers hunker down, Ironbriar doesn't check on them in time and the PCs have a straightforward second go at the townhouse. The stalkers will be expecting them though, perhaps with a few more traps set up.

If you're happy to go a little off the rails: Ironbriar is actively keeping an eye on the townhouse, perhaps via legitimate reports from the city guard. A bunch of skinsaw cultists take up hidden positions nearby, ready to storm in when the stalkers raise the alarm that the party has returned.

If you really want to shake things up: The Stalkers re-assume their disguises and immediately raise the alarm with the city guard, maybe before the party has. Aided by Ironbriar behind the scenes, the PCs could be wanted criminals in Magnimar (burglary and attempted murder of a noble!) within a matter of hours. Suddenly the hunters become the hunted...

(by "off the rails" I mean deviating from the events described in the AP)

Dark Archive

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I absolutely love this part of the adventure path. I've got some slightly different constraints then are usual. I'm running a group of adults and kids which is tricky for Skinsaw. Part of why I love it as a Ravenloft fan the atmosphere is great, I just need to tone it down for the kids. I'd love to tweak it as part of another campaign too. One thing I did just for fun was to have the PCs make a Fort save when they invesitgted the first murder scene. If they failed they then needed to make a Will save to enter the Mill in Sandpoint. I set the DC low since it was more of a mechanical gimick to show how gruesome it was without giving the kids an overly vivid description. There were some other tweaks in the flow with having completely dropped the original run-in with Ven Vinder in Burnt Offerings. Even so the role-playing can take so many angles. My group went to see Grayst and after stopping his attack the PCs were not terribly diplomatic and triggered everything else and gave the NPCs a good chance to buff. It was a fun fight (also tricky because of the younger kids playing with sub optimal tactics and builds but ridiculous stats [I still love the thrill of the role]). They are taking some prisoners back for questioning, but while they found the hint about the Misgivings they are convinced the necromancer is the murderer.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Davor, it sounds like we have similar groups of players (mixed adult and kids). We're one session away from finishing Skinsaw, and I've started thinking about changes I will need to make to the Graul Farm section of HMM to tone it down for them. I'd be happy to trade notes on that, and even more so when we get to the Runeforge in Book 5 and need to find a substitute for the (spoilered because it references a later adventure in the AP)

Spoiler:
plot-critical magical vibrator.


Sorry to bother again. I got two new players in my party (half elf babarian and human druid) and I’m struggeling with incorporating them into the plot. Just to remember: my party broke into foxglove manor in Magnimar and they’re going in again (almost 100% sure). So any suggestions? I was thinking of a relative of one of the two chars being slayed by the skinsaw cult and their going to investigate a little? But it would be nice to find a hook, to bring the two partys together, just next to the foxglove house.


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Anubis2406 wrote:
But it would be nice to find a hook, to bring the two partys together, just next to the foxglove house.

A relative of Iesha looking to find (or exact revenge for) their missing niece/aunt/whatever? Perfect for Varisian characters.


thanks a lot. perfect idea, which I didn't have.


Anubis2406 wrote:
Sorry to bother again. I got two new players in my party (half elf babarian and human druid) and I’m struggeling with incorporating them into the plot. Just to remember: my party broke into foxglove manor in Magnimar and they’re going in again (almost 100% sure). So any suggestions? I was thinking of a relative of one of the two chars being slayed by the skinsaw cult and their going to investigate a little? But it would be nice to find a hook, to bring the two partys together, just next to the foxglove house.

the humain druid might be there to investigate the Ghoul uprising near his woods, might have ties to the victims or to Iesha. the half elf barbarian could be a bit more complicated, without knowing anything about their specific backstories


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Anubis2406 wrote:
Sorry to bother again. I got two new players in my party (half elf babarian and human druid) and I’m struggeling with incorporating them into the plot. Just to remember: my party broke into foxglove manor in Magnimar and they’re going in again (almost 100% sure). So any suggestions? I was thinking of a relative of one of the two chars being slayed by the skinsaw cult and their going to investigate a little? But it would be nice to find a hook, to bring the two partys together, just next to the foxglove house.

What if they were investigating the Skinsaw Cult and got captured? What if there is a cellar in the Foxglove townhouse and that's where Ironbriar is holding them, awaiting sacrifice? Every little bit of greed helps! Perhaps Ironbriar is trying to find out if they have any allies? What if he's keeping them alive so the Faceless stalkers can impersonate them in certain parts of town, just to be sure they were working alone? It's a great place to hide them - if they somehow are found or escape, no ties back to him.


thanks for your ideas. that leads me to the next thing I didn't get yet:

why are the two stalkers living in a boarded house? If they leave the building during the day and were seen by somebody who recognizes the Foxglove couple, should that person not start asking suspiciously questions? I mean, why would that couple live in there, if they we're the real couple?


Anubis2406 wrote:

thanks for your ideas. that leads me to the next thing I didn't get yet:

why are the two stalkers living in a boarded house? If they leave the building during the day and were seen by somebody who recognizes the Foxglove couple, should that person not start asking suspiciously questions? I mean, why would that couple live in there, if they we're the real couple?

As I understand it...

Spoiler:

The Brothers of the Seven saw to it that the house was boarded up a few days before (probably when they were sure Aldern had become a ghast and gone back to Foxglove Manor to harvest the marked souls in the Sandpoint area.

Justice Ironbriar sent the two Faceless Stalkers to the house. They are there to lay low and kill the PCs if the PCs come to investigate.


My take: the faceless stalkers are Xanesha's minions and they serve her interests (though they may have taken some direction from Ironbriar.) They are in the house to confound any investigation into Xanesha's pet - Aldern.

If a simple bluff ("We're just back from a long trip and getting the house in order") sends inquiring minds on their way, good enough. Otherwise, the stalkers lure investigators inside and kill them.

I suspect the stalkers rarely leave the townhouse and when they do it's under the cover of darkness and perhaps disguised as something other than Aldern and Iesha. Perhaps as city guards...

There's elbow room for the GM at this point in the AP (or extra rope if you want a more dangerous metaphor) because the writer(s) can't know key details about how the pc's have made their way up to this point.

What do Xanesha and Ironbriar know of the pc's?
What do they know about events in Sandpoint and Aldern's fate?
Similarly, what do the authorities in Magnimar know?

Let's look at two extremes - on one end, the pc's have worked on only a limited bases with the leaders of Sandpoint, went to the Manor immediately after getting clues about it and having defeated Aldern, head immediately to Magnimar based on clues found in the Manor. In this case, no one in Sandpoint or Magnimar knows anything at all about Aldern's fate or role in the killings and pc's arrive in town completely unlooked for. On the other extreme, the pc's have worked closely with the Mayor and Sheriff, keeping them apprised of every detail, including returning to Sandpoint with conclusive proof of Aldern's role (including the corpse?) Further they stay in Sandpoint for a week recovering and crafting, etc. In this case, Xanesha and Ironbriar probably know quite a bit and even the Magnimar authorities know about what's happened. Mayor Deverin may have provided reports to leaders in the city. Heck the pc's may carry writs or letters of introduction sanctioning their investigation into Aldern's affairs.

How the various NPC's (including city authorities) behave will depend on both what they know and what the pc's do. The stalkers are in the townhouse because regardless of what the pc's do or have done, Xanesha knows it's a possibility someone may come asking about Aldern. The more generally known/knowable the events at the Manor are, the more additional steps she and Ironbriar might take. For instance Ironbriar may have the townhouse watched by city guards so he can be alerted should anyone start nosing around.


Dealing with a paladin and The Misgivings, Paladins being immune to fear makes this part of the adventure suck IMO. So the idea I'm having is calling back to third edition Ravenloft where the world was so fear inducing that Paladins would lose there immunity to fear and have it down graded to the plus four on fear based saves and the aura only gave a plus two. Would claiming that the misgivings are so evil and scary and the haunts so powerful that they over come his immunity to fear be totally wrong on my part?

Is this a jerk move as a GM? Should I give him a hero point for doing this to the paladin?


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Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would be super annoyed at my GM for nerfing a powerful (albeit not always used) class feature to make an encounter feel the way he wants it to. Don't do that to your player. Let him feel good that his character has a cool ability to ignore fear while the rest of the party struggles.

Silver Crusade

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As I mentioned in earlier posts, I'd have the paladin see the visions of the haunt, but just auto-make the saving throws. Remember, each PC is only going to be affected by a couple of the haunts. The rest of the party might get a bonus from the pally, but they'll still have to make saves.


Joey Virtue wrote:

Dealing with a paladin and The Misgivings, Paladins being immune to fear makes this part of the adventure suck IMO. So the idea I'm having is calling back to third edition Ravenloft where the world was so fear inducing that Paladins would lose there immunity to fear and have it down graded to the plus four on fear based saves and the aura only gave a plus two. Would claiming that the misgivings are so evil and scary and the haunts so powerful that they over come his immunity to fear be totally wrong on my part?

Is this a jerk move as a GM? Should I give him a hero point for doing this to the paladin?

It really doesn't suck, trust me. It was still scary for the non-paladin players even with the +4. Just allow anyone who saves to still see the haunts visuals and an emotional 'tug' indicating the effect it could have had and it isn't long before everyone is hiding behind the paladin and pushing them into rooms first. Knowing you could be affected while one of your allies is immune really highlights how vulnerable you are, so it becomes a little extra scary for the non-paladins - and the paladin gets to enjoy feeling awesome!


Would claiming that the misgivings are so evil and scary and the haunts so powerful that they over come his immunity to fear be totally wrong on my part? Yes. How will you explain all the future scenes of super awful the paladin encounters?

Is this a jerk move as a GM? Yes. This is a core paladin class feature. Good GM's don't mangle class features, they adjust encounters if necessary.

First off, the immunity to fear doesn't make it suck it just makes the paladin himself immune. All the other pc's can still be fully affected by the haunts. Yes they get a bonus to saves (assuming they stick close to him which initially they might not...) but that's why they have a paladin in the party. This is when the paladin pays off in spades - and why they "put up" with him and his restrictions and objections to various underhanded and duplicitous tactics some parties might otherwise employ.

Second, the real purpose behind the haunts isn't to harm the party, it's to tell the tale of the horrible Foxglove family (most notably the males.) The paladin's immunity doesn't change that at all, immune or not the backstory can be revealed.

Third the group can't avoid the haunts by having the paladin enter every room alone since most of the haunts don't target him. How many pc's do you have? Maybe the paladin is actually or comparably sinless so none of the haunts target him. Another purpose behind the haunts is to foreshadow how sin and magic can intersect. The evil of the house is responding to the evil you brought with you - if you didn't bring any, it doesn't react to you.


So I thought they wouldn't even manifest because the paladin is just imune if they still manifest then that's good.

I have 6 players, which haunt should I stick on to the paladin so it doesn't take away to much from the house?


My interpretation would be the haunts would trigger for the paladin and he would experience the haunt, just not suffer any of the effects. And just because the paladin is immune doesn't mean the haunt can't build/sustain the disturbing ambiance of the manor. The stories of the various Foxglove generations are decidedly creepy.

It's been a while since I looked at those haunts so my suggestion is somewhat simple (perhaps even lame) - follow the directions in the AP: assign the haunts to pc's based on elements in their past or how they behave or otherwise connect with that character. I'd worry less about the gameplay intersection with the paladin's immunity and instead focus on the story elements. Keep in mind, some of the haunts can be universal - meaning they affect everyone.


So I have 6 Players but two are going to miss the session in the Misgivings. So I was thinking of making each of the four characters haunted by two of the types of haunts. I am using the write up for each haunt from the community created thread so they will be reading them and experiencing parts without the rest of the party. I don't want to turn all the other four haunts universal and If for some reason we don't finish the Misgivings in one session then the other players can show up and be haunted by two sets of haunts also. What do you guys think?


There's a hole in your approach: If the haunt in room X is reserved for player Y who may not be there, what happens if the pc's go to room X when Y is not present? The haunt doesn't trigger and the pc's don't get whatever benefit they from that haunt - story info, xp, etc. And having explored room X, the pc's are unlikely to return to it when Y rejoins them. I'd encourage labeling a haunt for a targeted pc, but if that pc is not present, the haunt is universal.

Sneaky note: the pc's have multiple paths through the house. They might go up or down from the main level and they may not completely explore any one level before moving to a different level. The narrative sequence in the written text may imply a certain order but the pc's may experience the rooms is an entirely random order so it's going to be hard to predict which haunts they will and will not encounter in any one session in Misgivings.


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Latrecis wrote:

Would claiming that the misgivings are so evil and scary and the haunts so powerful that they over come his immunity to fear be totally wrong on my part? Yes. How will you explain all the future scenes of super awful the paladin encounters?

Is this a jerk move as a GM? Yes. This is a core paladin class feature. Good GM's don't mangle class features, they adjust encounters if necessary.

First off, the immunity to fear doesn't make it suck it just makes the paladin himself immune. All the other pc's can still be fully affected by the haunts. Yes they get a bonus to saves (assuming they stick close to him which initially they might not...) but that's why they have a paladin in the party. This is when the paladin pays off in spades - and why they "put up" with him and his restrictions and objections to various underhanded and duplicitous tactics some parties might otherwise employ.

Second, the real purpose behind the haunts isn't to harm the party, it's to tell the tale of the horrible Foxglove family (most notably the males.) The paladin's immunity doesn't change that at all, immune or not the backstory can be revealed.

Third the group can't avoid the haunts by having the paladin enter every room alone since most of the haunts don't target him. How many pc's do you have? Maybe the paladin is actually or comparably sinless so none of the haunts target him. Another purpose behind the haunts is to foreshadow how sin and magic can intersect. The evil of the house is responding to the evil you brought with you - if you didn't bring any, it doesn't react to you.

Yes, yes, yes, and YES!!!!

When I ran Misgivings with a paladin, the paladin could see the haunts, but wasn't affected by them.

So you know what the party did?

They went through every room to learn the story!!!!!

It was AWESOME!

If no one is immune, the party quickly gets VERY tired of taking ability damage every time they open a door, stop exploring, and just say, "OK, what's the fastest way to get out of here?"
They never learn any of the epically-cool background. They never explore. They get so hammered by petty haunt effects they give up on room-by-room exploration.

Paladins make Misgivings better with their immunity to fear, not worse.


Latrecis wrote:

There's a hole in your approach: If the haunt in room X is reserved for player Y who may not be there, what happens if the pc's go to room X when Y is not present? The haunt doesn't trigger and the pc's don't get whatever benefit they from that haunt - story info, xp, etc. And having explored room X, the pc's are unlikely to return to it when Y rejoins them. I'd encourage labeling a haunt for a targeted pc, but if that pc is not present, the haunt is universal.

Sneaky note: the pc's have multiple paths through the house. They might go up or down from the main level and they may not completely explore any one level before moving to a different level. The narrative sequence in the written text may imply a certain order but the pc's may experience the rooms is an entirely random order so it's going to be hard to predict which haunts they will and will not encounter in any one session in Misgivings.

I would make sure the four players who I know will be there will be targeted by all 6 haunts.


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When I ran the Misgivings for 6 players (no paladin, though) each haunt type was assigned to 2 PCs (with each PC having more than one haunt that could affect them) and then I decided as they encountered each haunt, which of the two PCs it would affect. If a haunt was particularly thematic for a PC, then it affected them. If it was an either/or situation, I would go with whichever PC had been affected least-recently. (Since there is no way of telling ahead of time what order they'll explore the rooms in, this allowed me to vary things up so no one PC felt like they were being picked on if they happened to trigger multiple haunts of the same type in a row.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
NobodysHome wrote:

If no one is immune, the party quickly gets VERY tired of taking ability damage every time they open a door, stop exploring, and just say, "OK, what's the fastest way to get out of here?"

They never learn any of the epically-cool background. They never explore. They get so hammered by petty haunt effects they give up on room-by-room exploration.

This. My party had no paladin, and only the cleric had a decent will save (the monk should have, but his dice were cold that night). Until they hit a room with a haunt that targeted her and she made her saving throw, they were terrified to go anywhere. Once she got through a haunt unscathed and picked up the storyline, they sent the cleric into every room first.


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feel free to pass this out to your players

The Sandpoint Register


In a couple of places, it says that Iesha "unleashes a baleful shriek". Is that meant to be the revenant Special Ability "Baleful Shriek", or just normal creepy screaming? It's not clear to me if it was just meant to set the scene, or if it should be mechanically resolved.


The baleful shriek is mentioned once: in the development section of B24. Therefore, it's save to assume that the Special Ability is meant; that's how I handled it.
In the development section of B37 it is written "she shrieks in rage". I'd handle that with your group in mind: as this will only affect the PCs you'll need to decide whether they can handle it or not.

Ruyan.


Well, the main one I'm worried about is the first one, when you first find her. If the PCs move the mirror, the first thing she does is "she stands up and unleashes a baleful shriek". I think a lot of players will get very stabby if the first thing a creature does can reasonably be interpreted as hostile. I might do this as normal screaming depending on how my players approach her.

Thanks for your input!


If the term in the text matches the ability name ("baleful shriek" vs. "angry cry"), then that pretty much means the ability.

That said, you're the GM.. the given tactics are a guideline for how the writer/developer felt the creature would act. It is not a straitjacket that forces you to do so, unless you let it. If you feel that your group would be better served by something else, then that is what you should do.

It is worth keeping in mind, though, the nature of the creature. In this case, it is a revenge-obsessed undead that will batter through anything or anyone else to reach its object of hatred. It is not something that is likely to be reasoned with, or that you can use Diplomacy with (other than "we're not with him").

Also, all they have to do is to get out of her way in order to avoid her wrath. My players, in this situation, stubbornly insisted on fighting her, even standing in the narrow hallway so that she had no choice but to batter through them... and they were beaten into unconsciousness one by one. She did not coup-de-grace any of them, though she could have, because once unconscious, they were no longer impeding her from reaching her objective. They survived because one climbed out a window, then back in after she had moved on.

Sometimes, players need a reminder that not everything is there for them to kill it, and of when discretion is the better part of valor.

Grand Lodge

wrmusall wrote:

feel free to pass this out to your players

The Sandpoint Register

That's an awesome newspaper shot! I wish there was more of this. :)

Contributor

wrmusall wrote:

feel free to pass this out to your players

The Sandpoint Register

BRAVO:)


Hi, do you have that great work as a word document?
Thx


Shisumo wrote:


Speaking of which, how are a 4 6th level characters supposed to beat her anyway...?

My Characters are level 8 at the end of Foxglove Manor, so I don't think this is an issue


Latrecis wrote:

There's a hole in your approach: If the haunt in room X is reserved for player Y who may not be there, what happens if the pc's go to room X when Y is not present? The haunt doesn't trigger and the pc's don't get whatever benefit they from that haunt - story info, xp, etc. And having explored room X, the pc's are unlikely to return to it when Y rejoins them. I'd encourage labeling a haunt for a targeted pc, but if that pc is not present, the haunt is universal.

Sneaky note: the pc's have multiple paths through the house. They might go up or down from the main level and they may not completely explore any one level before moving to a different level. The narrative sequence in the written text may imply a certain order but the pc's may experience the rooms is an entirely random order so it's going to be hard to predict which haunts they will and will not encounter in any one session in Misgivings.

They affect as in a universal and just affect the first person in the room if they are unassigned. I assigned more than one type to my characters because I only have 3, So you could always just assign that type to someone who is there and they may feel attacked by the house.

My Bard ended up getting a bunch in a row and his character was just like "Enough of this haunting shit I just want to leave!" Causing him to run into the next room trying to escape and triggering the one where he tries to claw his face off haha :D


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Meangarr wrote:

I have a question about other's experiences running the boss fight in area B37 (AE) of the Misgivings. I have five PCs and my instinct is that the room is too small, especially in terms of the Skinsaw Man's tactic of targeting the object of his obsession. In my campaign his obsession is for the archery focused Ranger, who certainly won't be approachable without using acrobatics, but might not be approachable at all due to the room size.

On the other hand maybe the point is having it be so confined that the PCs are tripping over each other, not being able to completely surround the Skinsaw Man, and him utilizing his acrobatics constantly. That had been my experience with the boss fight in the Glassworks.

Thoughts?

I ran this a few weeks ago and my PCs are golden hearted and they not only set the Revenant Iesha free but escorted her through the house. After learning all the backstory they stood back and let her have her revenge. I had Aldern's personality return at the sight of his beloved wife, which gave her an advantage.

My PCs chose to stand back and watch, and Iesha absolutely wrecked him. This was how I ran it, because my PCs actually were a bit ahead of the curve and didn't really need the exp. Then, when Foxglove was dying, Iesha's revenant calmed down, laid next to him and closed her eyes and died embracing her husband, having killed the sickness in him that took her life. My PCs put coins on their eyes and left them there to be together.


Just... awesome!

My group plays that way, but didn't manage to do something quite THAT epic...


wrmusall wrote:

feel free to pass this out to your players

The Sandpoint Register

That's awesome! I'd love to use it, but would need to change a few details to match our game. Could you provide the source document? I can retype (plagiarize!) the whole thing, but it would be a lot easier if I could edit it instead.

Thanks for the awesome prop!


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm prepping Foxglove Manor and what I'm concerned about is that, after encountering the first couple of haunts, the PCs are likely to just peer into rooms from the doorway and if they don't see a) obvious treasure or b) a ghoul serial killer, they won't enter. It's cautious and perfectly reasonable to adopt this approach, but of course it also means they'll miss out on a lot of the story background and dangers of the place. Any thoughts?

I was also wondering whether your groups were able to put the pieces together to understand the backstory of the place. I think my group would be able to assemble what happened to either Aldern/Iesha OR Vorel OR Aldern's parents, but because the haunts jump back and forth between these storylines, my guess is they're going to get rather confused. I suppose it's not essential that they understand the entire history of the place, but there's a lot of interesting material there that they'll probably miss out on.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's not necessary for the PCs to figure out exactly what happened in the Misgivings, and there's a lot of moving pieces there, so some groups may get through the place without truly knowing. My players realized that they were missing out on story stuff by avoiding the haunts, so they actually subjected themselves to nearly all of them.

You might think about giving them story XP if they can tell you what happened in the Misgivings after they're finished with it. The closer they get, the more XP they get!

Silver Crusade

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My group was just curious. Every time a haunt popped up, I'd hand a piece of paper with a description to the person who saw it. One guy got upset that he wasn't in on any of them, just because he was assigned to haunts that they didn't get to right away (but he didn't know that). So he started making a point of going into rooms first, hoping to trigger a haunt and get a sheet of paper with some story stuff on it.

All in all, I really like the Misgivings. I usually don't like haunts in Pathfinder, but that house was very well done.


So my last session kind of concluded in a hurry and there were a bunch of loose ends to tie up that didn't really get tied up. Including one character kinda maybe taking Vorel's phylactery with them without knowing what it is, or at this point fully suspecting the whole Lich thing.

Basically we had to wrap up the session, party was in bad shape after a lot of con damage, and a lot of the house is still unexplored. So they bug out, trek a ways from the house, and set up camp.

I don't want to punish them exactly but I am wondering what sort of power the failed phylactery might have on its own? Or barring that, giving some sense of it? My thought was maybe having a carrionstorm come and take back the box in the night.

That or doing a Dread Gazebo thing and have the house itself come after the box.


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So, according to my reading, the fungus in the lab is the "lich", and the phylactery contains the "Vorel's Legacy" haunt, which resets once per day. My take would be that at dawn the next morning, they notice black fungus growing out of the phylactery, at the same time having to save against Vorel's Legacy again.

Day, after day, after day... and if they don't use one of the prescribed methods to kill off the fungus, you should have even more fun, with horrific undead critters crawling out from nearby bushes to attack them. Just go over-the-top with the creepy, "Every dead thing in your area is now re-animating and attacking you" angle.

That'll encourage them to get it to a temple for proper destruction.

Though I DO love the whole Howl's Moving Castle angle! "Bring me back my maaaaasster!!!!!"

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My interpretation is that because Vorel was interrupted during the critical phase of the construction of his phylactery, and the Misgivings itself has become a weak version of that soul-storing device. That's why it's so resistant to physical and elemental damage - it's alive!

While I'd say the phylactery is just a box, I can see the interest in doing something with it. Maybe the person who has it is subjected to nightmares (as per the spell) every night, dreaming of being chased by a dark amorphous figure that seems to come from everywhere the PC runs, always leading to a lonely chamber with a familiar dark patch of fungus on the ground. Just as the fungus rises up around them and devours them, and they wake up screaming, they hear a chilling voice demanding them to return...


My party of two TPKed at the Xanesha fight. One failed the save vs petrification and Xanesha beat on the other until she died, then put the petrified character to sleep as soon as the petrification wore off, followed by a coup de grace.

Sooooo... I need advice for getting them back into the adventure. So far my plan is:

Xanesha loots their bodies and dumps them in an ally. The bodies are doind and returned to Sandpoint. Father Zantus had a scroll of reincarnate that he asks the old lady druid in town (forgot her name) to use. They rez the party druid who will then use reincarnate to rez the gunslinger. Xanesha will move her base and go into hiding for a few weeks before starting up her murder spree again.

How do I get the PCs some money to re-equip? I thought about the mayor of Magnimar giving them 4k gp each for busting up the skinsaw cult and foiling his murder. I plan to let them recover their gear later.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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