Terrorism. Natural disasters. Biological hazards.
These are things that are a sad and alarming reality these days. Preparedness is something I've thought a lot about lately.
So, if you had to plan for a general state of emergency, no specific type of emergency, what would top your list of things to have?
As far as food goes, are there some suggestions on food that will keep for a long time (canned or otherwise) and cover the dietary needs of the average person?
Wierd question, I know. But there are a lot of really intelligent, knowledgable people here so I figured I'd ask.
Fancy a fast car, bag full of loot and something that sprays hot lead!
Batteries, candles for when those run out, food that can be cooked in a gas oven (or over a makeshift fire) or that can be safely eaten cold, and something to ward off the looters (guns are too cliche, do you think people would try to rob the house of someone with a katana?)
I have a massive generator fed by huge diesel tanks. I have a secluded home on a wooded hill and eight acres. I always buy too much food at a time so I'd be good for a month. I have four attack housecats. I have swords on the wall and if I can unbuckle 'em quick enough I should be able to deflect insurgent bullets with deft twists of the blade--or enact the world's stupidest looking home defense.
That said, if I lost TV signal, what reason would I have to go on? I'd have no choice but to fall on one of my wall mounted swords.
Truth be told I'm within 15 miles of the Indian Point nuclear reactor. If there's a real problem around here I'm not going take my radiation pills like they recommend in the local warning pamphlets. I'm going to bend at the waist and kiss my ass goodbye.
I've been slowly collecting a kit for if there's a natural disaster - our most likely one around here is a bushfire, we had a big one a few years ago and I'm right near a tree-covered mountain.
So far I have tins of food*, blankets, a battery-powerd lantern, a torch, a radio, a bunch of spare batteries, candles, a zippo and lighter fluid, a first aid kit, and on the defence side I have a jutte, which is a small, concealable but VERY nasty weapon. Imagine an iron bar thrust to the solar plexus. Ouch.
Next on the list is a crowbar for zombies etc, which means I could give the jutte to my girlfriend and we'd both be armed. Thankfully in urban Australia we don't have to worry too much about coming up against firearms.
*and a tin opener, smart arse ;)
3. Waive goodbye.
Never waive your right to bid adieu. It's an inalienable right.
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As an Eagle Scout, I am *supposed* to think about things that would be important in said situation, but I'd bet good odds on my chaotic nature prevailing against my rational side in the face of unsurmountable danger.
Read as:
I'd be sitting on my roof with a box of cheez-its and a shotgun, waiting for the poor sap that decides that stealing my stuff is a good idea.
I'd be sitting on my roof with a box of cheez-its and a shotgun, waiting for the poor sap that decides that stealing my stuff is a good idea.
Yeah, but cheez-its, bro. You're like... asking for insurgency.
Shotgun. Full tank of gas. Everything else derives from there.
Food--mre's are pretty good and last a while, but they're expensive.
MRE's... what are they? (military rations?) And what's in 'em?
Unsurprisingly, I think most gamers will have the home protection part taken care of since we all love our weapons, whatever form they take. ;)Edit: Nevermind, Heathey. Found some MRE's here. Yeah, they are expensive... and sold out!
Ahhh, MRE's. Also known as Meals Rejected by Ethiopians. Or Most Revolting Eats.I've never been in the military, so I wouldn't know, but my friend insists that the things are godawful.
lol. Well, at least they're good as emetics.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Never waive your right to bid adieu. It's an inalienable right.
3. Waive goodbye.
...
*cough*
Uh...yeah...I meant waive...and you could do it...there's this case...and it involves someone suing someone...and...I know these things...because I is a laywer and very smert.
THAT'S WHAT I MEANT
Writing in all caps proves my point once again. IS THERE ANYTHING IT CAN'T DO.
They taste really good. Much sugar seems to be used in their creation.
The downside is when you eat them 2-3 days straight, your guts start to churn. you don't go #2 for 2 days, because it all sticks to your guts like molasses.
Sounds great.
Three moles tried to break into Paizo from their subterranean lair last year, in search of Cthulu plushies. As the first mole stuck his head out of the hole they'd dug into the storage room he sniffed the air and said, "I smell sugar." The mole underneath him said, "I smell spices." The third mole, bring up the rear said, "I smell mole-asses."
MRE's aren't that bad, but make sure you drink plenty of water, at least a litre with each meal in addition to water needed during the day.
Now they have a heater with them, which is really just a small strip of magnesium that reacts with water. It doesn't take much water either. You can heat up to two items if you pack them in right. Or or could not heat anything and heat up some water for hygiene. Heating the fruits make them taste like pie filling. And if you can find the recipe for Ranger Pudding, it's not too bad either.
As for emergency planning...
The first thing you need to know is what could occur in your area; earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc. Almost every region has some kind of disaster that could occur.
Next find out how long you might need to prepare for. If it is only two or three days, you might be able to tough it out at home. If it is any longer, locate a shelter. Is there one in your local community? Contact either your Sheriff's department or Fire Department.
I would post more, I have work to do.
The first thing you need to know is what could occur in your area; earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc. Almost every region has some kind of disaster that could occur.
I live in the Aderondaks, along a river. So floods, probably. The worse I've ever gotten was some basement flooding and the cable going out though (and we had some bad weather last year). Of course I don't live right on the river, just relatively close to it, and up a little incline...
Also, a couple years ago we had a freak earthquake. Nothing too horrable where I was, but a whole highway had to be rebuilt nearby. Just and example of "expect the unexpected".
I'm prepared, I think. Here in the mid Pacific the worry is tsunami and Hurricane. Oh and Matson stops bringing containers full of goods.
I have a box of canned goods from SPAM (UMM good) to cut green beans. I have a box of top romen noodles as well and a 5lb bag of rice. I have a 5 gallon bottle sealed full of purified water. A flash light and battery lantern with a case of d batteries. I have a small battery radio. I have a case of toilet paper stashed in the closet. I have a propane stove and lantern with 3 propane tanks. Water proof matches.
In my truck I always carry an extra bottle of drinking water and a five gallon bottle of water to rinse off. I also have first aid kit in my truck. I also carry a small fishing pole and tackle box in the truck. I also have a small knife, a machete an extra blanket and tool set in my truck. I also have a bag of extra cloths in my truck and a towel. I am certified lifeguard and always carry a floatation device (usually a boogie board) and a pair of swim fins. I also have a flash light and small (hand crank) radio in my truck.
I have no weapons.
Just my BadASS additude
Sir K's list is very good. If you don't own a firearm and you want to buy one for this eventuality, I'd recommend you buy two of them: a 12 gauge pump shotgun for defending against humans and a .22 caliber rifle to pop rats and pidgeons for supplemental protein... (.22's work well on humans too, just not fast enough usually to stop them from doing evil things unless you hit them in the head) I'd recommend a Remington 870 Express 12 gauge shotgun (about $350 at Big 5 sporting goods) with about 50 rounds of buckshot and a Ruger 10/22 .22 caliber semi-auto carbine with a couple of thousand rounds (bricks of .22 cost like $10-$15 IIRC) The Ruger is a bit pricey at about $200, but it's clip fed and fast to reload if you have a spare magazine or two. In a pinch, you can get a decent Marlin or Rossi tube fed .22 for about $135, but after 14 rounds you gotta remove the tube-rod to pour more rounds down the tube, effectively turning it into a 14 shot musket.
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Also, a couple years ago we had a freak earthquake. Nothing too horrable where I was, but a whole highway had to be rebuilt nearby. Just and example of "expect the unexpected".
Holy s@!!! That was an earthquake? I just thought it was caused by a combination of bad flooding and even worse frost heave!
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Sir K's list is very good. If you don't own a firearm and you want to buy one for this eventuality, I'd recommend you buy two of them: a 12 gauge pump shotgun for defending against humans and a .22 caliber rifle to pop rats and pidgeons for supplemental protein... (.22's work well on humans too, just not fast enough usually to stop them from doing evil things unless you hit them in the head) I'd recommend a Remington 870 Express 12 gauge shotgun (about $350 at Big 5 sporting goods) with about 50 rounds of buckshot and a Ruger 10/22 .22 caliber semi-auto carbine with a couple of thousand rounds (bricks of .22 cost like $10-$15 IIRC) The Ruger is a bit pricey at about $200, but it's clip fed and fast to reload if you have a spare magazine or two. In a pinch, you can get a decent Marlin or Rossi tube fed .22 for about $135, but after 14 rounds you gotta remove the tube-rod to pour more rounds down the tube, effectively turning it into a 14 shot musket.
Jeez...
I got enough guns as-is:- Ruger .22 semiauto w/10-round clip
- Winchester lefty custom .22 w/12-round banana clip and scope
- Browning over-under .22 rifle/.30 gauge shotgun
- Winchester 30-aught-six deer rifle
- Modified (by my crazy grandfather) Navy Special .48 (the modified part) revolver
- Lefty M-1 Garand rifle w/modified ejector
...plus my knife collection (40+ knives, including 2 Arkansas Toothpicks, 2 cheapo Canadian throwing knives, and 5 Bowie knives), recurve bow, and short sword.
Sir K's list is very good. If you don't own a firearm and you want to buy one for this eventuality, I'd recommend you buy two of them: a 12 gauge pump shotgun for defending against humans and a .22 caliber rifle to pop rats and pidgeons for supplemental protein... (.22's work well on humans too, just not fast enough usually to stop them from doing evil things unless you hit them in the head) I'd recommend a Remington 870 Express 12 gauge shotgun (about $350 at Big 5 sporting goods) with about 50 rounds of buckshot and a Ruger 10/22 .22 caliber semi-auto carbine with a couple of thousand rounds (bricks of .22 cost like $10-$15 IIRC) The Ruger is a bit pricey at about $200, but it's clip fed and fast to reload if you have a spare magazine or two. In a pinch, you can get a decent Marlin or Rossi tube fed .22 for about $135, but after 14 rounds you gotta remove the tube-rod to pour more rounds down the tube, effectively turning it into a 14 shot musket.
I used to have a .22 semi auto pistol. The guy I bought it from told me you shoot man dead with a .22 or a .45 he's still dead. The .22 won't draw as much attention sounds like a firecracker. I used to do bad things and feared for my life, that was a while ago.
Well you can't buy hand guns in Hawaii (legally). The 12 gauge shot gun looks promising though. I could be like Bruce Campel with my "BOOM" stick, fighting off crack head zombies wanting to eat my brains. During the upcoming appocolypse.
What are you talking about? George Bush is president! There will be no emergency situations.
I'd recommend a Remington 870 Express 12 gauge shotgun...
Yep. Got that exact model. My wife hates that I own it, but it'll always be in the house "just in case" no matter how much grief she gives me over it. It's police issue for Metro here in Vegas. Is that the model you guys use in El Paso?
My other firearm is a Russian SKS assault rifle. It's fun to shoot, but a bit hard to be very accurate with.
I don't own any hand guns. Yet.
BTW, Sir Kaikillah's list is pretty impressive.
Sir K's list is very good. If you don't own a firearm and you want to buy one for this eventuality, I'd recommend you buy two of them: a 12 gauge pump shotgun for defending against humans and a .22 caliber rifle to pop rats and pidgeons for supplemental protein... (.22's work well on humans too, just not fast enough usually to stop them from doing evil things unless you hit them in the head) I'd recommend a Remington 870 Express 12 gauge shotgun (about $350 at Big 5 sporting goods) with about 50 rounds of buckshot and a Ruger 10/22 .22 caliber semi-auto carbine with a couple of thousand rounds (bricks of .22 cost like $10-$15 IIRC) The Ruger is a bit pricey at about $200, but it's clip fed and fast to reload if you have a spare magazine or two. In a pinch, you can get a decent Marlin or Rossi tube fed .22 for about $135, but after 14 rounds you gotta remove the tube-rod to pour more rounds down the tube, effectively turning it into a 14 shot musket.
I think my husband loves you more than he loves me now.
Toilet paper. LOTS of toilet paper. And not for the obvious purpose. It'll take people weeks to figure out that you can use other things to do the necessary business. In that time, you can "sell" off rolls for "currency". Supply and demand. Use your TP only for monetary purposes!
Wind up LED flashlight, a can opener and misc cans of food, rifle with a scope and bullets (realistically, I'm sure I can peg a squirrel), a "made from scratch" cook book, and a quick stop at the Boy Scout shop (first aid kit, flint and steel, plenty of manuals for outdoor living). Don't forget the backpack!
My wife hates that I own it, but it'll always be in the house "just in case" no matter how much grief she gives me over it.
What does "just in case" even mean?
As ever,
ACE
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I live in southern Alabama. We have a hurricain almost every year. During Katrina, we were out of power for two weeks. The National Guard brought in cases of MRE's (I've still got 4 cases that don't expire until 2010), drinking water, and ice. I own a few hunting firearms, even though I don't hunt any more. An SKS, Remington Model 700 .270, and a Berreta 12-Gauge shotgun. I can't even begin to name all of the guns my dad and granddad have. I want to get a handgun, probably a 9mm or .45, but can't afford one right now. My parents live WAY back in the woods. They get their water from a well (its got an electric and hand pump) and have a generator, so when the feces hit the fan, me and mine will head over there.
Great topic! Okay, my wife would make fun of me (again) for taking this issue seriously, but I am (also) nerdy that way. So, in advance, pardon the excessive care put into answering this. ;-)
1) Stock products that get scarce in war time
Reading through books with real-life stories about the 2nd World War it seems that many people managed to buy themselves through check-points and other "authority controls" by paying with non-perishable goods that are usually imported (and thus tend to be scarce in time of duress). For example coffee, sugar or cigarettes.
So it's always good to stock coffee and to retain to it if a catastrophy happens. If the difficult times drag on, you can always trade a pack of sugar or cigarettes for access to a facility, making it through a check-point, obtaining right of passage on a boat, etc. Or maybe for medicaments, etc.
2) Have a "you have to leave your house RIGHT NOW"-bag ready
It should contain copies of important documents (deed to your house, copies of passports, etc), a soap, toothpaste, toothbrush and any medication your need to take regularly. Consider including a pack of cigarettes (for trading): it's lighter and smaller than a coffee pack. It should also include a small bottle of vitamin-tablets to complete your diet while you are on the go.
It could also contain a knife, but - as always - possessing or carrying a weapon (iy your country allows it) means that the chances of it being used against you are higher than that of you making a good use of it. But if it makes you feel secure, why not...
Make sure the bag is small enough so that it does not slow you, does not attract attention and does not look valuable.
Ideally the bag should fit in an aluminium fire-proof briefcase. That way it doubles-up as secure location for important documents in your home (i.e. if you have a fire).
3) Being ready to lose nearly all you possess means that you'll have higher chances of survival
If you are ready to leave your house or car behind, that you do not load yourself or your car up with heavy and bulky goods, etc. you will be more mobile, will attract less attention and will not be a target for looters yourself. Of course what you leave behind will be looted, but it is a question of how dire the situation is and how much you value your life Vs your possessions.
4) Consider keeping water purifying tablets at home/in your emergency bag
I made heavy use of these while backpacking in Africa and they are really useful. They won't clean dirty/brown water, nor kill amoebia, but they will surely purify flowing water and suspicious tap water. The tablets are small and light, you can get a hundred of thems in a pack and each usually is good enough for one liter.
That way you can nearly always make sure you'll have access to clean water throughout the early time of the crisis.
Actually, most tips about backpacking in "difficult" regions would apply when trying to run away from a devastated zone.
If you are bunkered in your house, it is another story. Simply stock up sugar and coffee. Have wooden planks and big nails ready to board up windows and doors if needed. And, if you have the money and are really worried about this buy an electricity generator and store gas to make it work.
So, time to go back to normal life and pretend that I actually did not spend so much time of my life thinking about this... :-)
Bocklin
Yep. Got that exact model. My wife hates that I own it, but it'll always be in the house "just in case" no matter how much grief she gives me over it. It's police issue for Metro here in Vegas. Is that the model you guys use in El Paso?My other firearm is a Russian SKS assault rifle. It's fun to shoot, but a bit hard to be very accurate with.
Yes, we use the 870. We issue the 14" barrel version, but we can buy our own. I have an 870 Police Magnum with ghost ring sights and an 18" barrel. I love slugs.
I had an SKS for a while, but sold it off to help buy a Smith & Wesson .357 magnum 340 PD, which is my off-duty gun. It's a titanium alloy snubnose revolver that is ever so easy to carry and conceal.
My personal favorite shotgun is the Mossberg 590. I have the Mariner version in "marinecoat" which means it is resistant to rust. It's an 8 shot with ghost ring sights and I wish I could carry that one at work instead of the Remington, but it's just a personal matter of choice--both are excellent timeproven designs.
My wife hates that I own it, but it'll always be in the house "just in case" no matter how much grief she gives me over it.
What does "just in case" even mean?
As ever,
ACE
Here's what it means
While that's obvious meant to be funny, it's so true. "The police will be there in a few minutes" doesn't mean much if you don't have a few minutes.
I don't want to restart the whole gun control debate, but my wife found a definition of gun control she likes:
"Gun Control is society's feeling that a woman found raped and strangled in an alley is somehow morally superior than a woman explaining to the police how her attacker got those fatal bullet wounds."
We'll take the low road. Hope we never have to make use of the weapons, but I will not leave my family dependent on spotty police response time as their only means of protection.
My real mom just retired after thirty years on the force, my step dad is still an officer, I was taught how to shoot at a very young age. My mother never wanted me to become a victim, and if it came down to protecting my children in my home, a kitchen knife just aint gonna cut it (no pun intended) Then I married a redneck, we have a safe full of guns, I hunt, my hubby hunts, my 16 and 13 year old boys hunt. (I use a .308)
Because I married a redneck, our home is OVER prepared for an emergency, we live in earthquake country, so we have everything we need in case the big one hits, or zombies invade. Either way we're ready.
My wife hates that I own it, but it'll always be in the house "just in case" no matter how much grief she gives me over it.
What does "just in case" even mean?
As ever,
ACE
Ace, it means in case I have to defend my home and family from someone intent on doing them/me/it harm. Hopefully, I'll never have to pick it up and aim it at another human being, but I'm very serious about protecting my loved ones, myself, and my property.
Ooooh, this is a great thread. *is the daughter of someone who is VERY prepared, and just a touch paranoid*
I personally have a survival kit for both work and home. The home one isn't quite finished yet, but the work one contains:
3 large bottles of water
1 space blanket
1 first aid kit with the basics
1 flashlight that is guaranteed no spark in case of gas leaks
1 packet of oatmeal, 1 of cocoa and a little camp stove with fuel
1 washcloth
1 pocket knife that I carry at all times (Drilled into me as a kid. Never know when you need to cut your seatbelt, open a package, or get away from someone that's not expecting a knife.)
The house one has similar stuff, only more, and several packs of freeze-dried camp food as well as a bigger first aid kit with a compass, waterproof matches and an emergency whistle. I also have a collection of swords, knives and a hefty Maglite.
(This also doesn't hold a torch to the survival pack my roommate has. It has a saw and a couple other neat things. Yay ex-Marine!)
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Contributor
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I shoot watermelons with an M-1.
An M1?!?!
*covet*
I have an Enfield 1917 30-06 bolt action that I adore, and I'd love to add an M1 to my... "collection" ... ? but my girlfriend is kinda anti-gun (which is totally weird considering her dad owns about twenty [*drool*]), so for now I'm limited to the one. Not that I can afford an M1 right now, but, you know...
Anyway!
I have a slightly better emergency kit at home than I did before last winter, but it's still rather deplorable. My winter emergency driving kit for my truck is pretty tip-top, though.
So yeah, although I was never a Boy Scout I think their motto is spot on. I just need to stop being lazy and build up my kit. I think I'll take a lesson from Corey there and copy hers. ;D
Never did quite understand the just in case rationale and still don't, but to each his own i suppose. (and please don't try to explain it here)
As ever,
ACE
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We're pretty serious about these things in central florida. Four major hurricanes in one season pretty much scared everyone in the state sh!tless. So here's my list of basic essentials.
toilet paper
gallons and gallons of water
a functioning grill
several tanks of propane for aforementioned grill
a can opener
canned food
candles
matches & a lighter
flashlight & batteries
a pocketknife
a baseball bat
a deck of cards
first aid kit
insecticide
sunblock lotion
pens & some paper
player's handbook :)
And I've crammed as much of this stuff as possible into a bunch of water-tight containers. I'm sure there's other stuff stashed in our emergency supplies, but I can't think of them now.
Never did quite understand the just in case rationale and still don't, but to each his own i suppose. (and please don't try to explain it here)
As ever,
ACE
Well, I hope we can still be friends, ACE ;)
Oh, and can I just say... WOW?! Some of you are really, really prepared. I'm so jealous. I really need to get my emergency kit rounded out better.
I like the idea of a "gotta run" bag with things you need for when you have to simply take off. I'm going to start putting one of those together tonight.
Can someone post a link to a site where I can order those water purification tablets? Also, I like the suggestion of having vitamins on hand. I have a little one that we give gummy vitamins to. She's not quite old enough to be chewing on the hard Flinstone vitamins yet. I'm thinking that buying a couple of big bottles of those gummy ones could satisfy the needs of us grown ups and the munchkin if necessary.
I also read on a survival site that Tang is probably one of the best sources of Vitamin C to have in an emergency kit.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Never did quite understand the just in case rationale and still don't, but to each his own i suppose. (and please don't try to explain it here)
The low cost alternative to just-in-case is to know someone who plans on such things and then mooch. I call it the Stupid Flanders strategy.
My prepartion for an emergency situation thus entails mapquesting directions to Steve's house and putting that map somewhere vaguely safe and where I might be able to find it again at a later date.
Never did quite understand the just in case rationale and still don't, but to each his own i suppose. (and please don't try to explain it here)
As ever,
ACE
And here's a prayer that you never have to understand.....when your own personal "just in case" moment hits, you'll know it.
Director of Sales
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I personally have a survival kit for both work and home. The home one isn't quite finished yet, but the work one contains:
3 large bottles of water
1 space blanket
1 first aid kit with the basics
1 flashlight that is guaranteed no spark in case of gas leaks
1 packet of oatmeal, 1 of cocoa and a little camp stove with fuel
1 washcloth
1 pocket knife that I carry at all times (Drilled into me as a kid. Never know when you need to cut your seatbelt, open a package, or get away from someone that's not expecting a knife.)
I have a hundred dollar bill and a desk next to Corey.
And clean underwear... just in case.
I dunno...St. Louis was statistically the worst city to live in last year for murder (a stat that is highly misleading because of the city-county designation, BTW) and we live in a sleepy old town in the county. Crime is next to nothing where we live and we rarely (if ever) have to deal with situations like earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, bomb threats, fundamentalist gun-toting citizens... It's just...easy living i suppose. So i'd say that i'm pretty ignorant to the issues and concerns that many citizens live in and around every day. Maybe if i lived in a crime-ridden city, on one of the coasts with natural disaster potential, or in a location that would be a hot spot target for terrorism then i would consider those things. For those of you who do, i'm sure that everyone here is responsible with all the dangerous items...keep it up!
As ever,
ACE
Well, I am ashamed to say that I do not ahve an emergency kit. However, I do understand the need for one. I live in Savannah, GA and we are in a huricane area. More to the point, my Dad was in New Orleans when Katrina hit (They did evacuate, thank God!). I was in NO 3 months before Katrina and 1 & 1/2 months after. I KNOW that everyone should have one. I do however, have 2 oil lamps, multiple candles, extra food, a basic first aid kit, and some extras. Plus, I have a few handguns and a rifle that I inherited from my dad. And my sword, several knives, and a barking dog. However, I am more worried about power going out for a few days. ~shrugs~ Oh, well. I am working on getting that kit ready, but it will be a while. Money is still real tight.
Sharoth, the sites I've visited recently suggest some really economical ways to get yourself a kit started. For a simple 3 day survival kit, the cost is pretty low. If you buy milk, soda, or juices in plastic containers, rinse them out when they're empty and used them to store water. That's probably the most important item. If you have the luxury of cooking, a few lbs. of white rice and pinto beans are said to be very good and cheap to have, plus they provide complete nutrients together.
Canned items like tuna are very cheap and don't require beign cooked. Bread can be frozen. Toilet paper is pretty cheap in smaller packages, and as was mentioned before, probably a very good item to have on hand along with travel sized toothpaste, shampoo, soap, etc.
~grins~ Oh, I agree with you Steve that the basics are not that hard to get. Chalk it up to more than a bit of lazyness. ~shrugs~ I do have about 3 weeks worth of TP and paper towls, enough food for a week, and some camping supplies. I just need to fill in the holes and then organize the mess.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Matzos... They have a shelf-life longer than Twinkies. (I read that in a survival magazine back in the '80s.) And if you wait for Passover, you can get 5 lb. boxes of the them for fairly cheap, just watch out for the Jewish community if the supplier doesn't give the stores enough for them.