Ok, not to try and spoil anything, but does the rest of the AP have silly traps like the first adventure?
If you're upset now, Then stop. The AP is deadly and you will lose characters and face TPKs pretty constantly.
The worst was the iron ball trap. Did the writer have any concept of how much $$$ that many iron balls are worth? Our GM quickly made them disappear when they left the room, but silly traps like that kinda bust my "believibility" of the fantasy world alittle too much.
I loved the trap itself, but the iron would have distracted the hell out of one of my players. I made them teracotta balls instead. just as much damage, same trap...
or, let me put it this way:
You're playing a game in which high level wizards can summon permanent walls of IRON, incredible ammounts of metal, on a daily basis, and you're worried about one trap that can do the same thing destroying your "belivability?" Nice double standard there.
Also, how are first level characters supposed to survive a 50' fall from a wind tunnel after being paralyzed? I could see a TPK if one of our party members didnt make his save. There was NO WAY (at least our GM said) of knowing that the lanterns controlled that.
Tell your DM to re-read area 6. the clue is there.
In addition, have him reread section 8 - it's not paralysis, it's hypnosis, which would logically be broken by not being able to see the patterns (but that requires some logic on the dm's part), thus allowing anyone blown away to make a really easy reflex save to avoid dying. The trap CR also mentions, and I quote "be aware that this trap could be extremely deadly." That trap did kill one (out of three) of my characters... after she rolled a 2, a 3, and a 1 all in a row for her saves - any one of those rolls would have saved her character's life, but the player just had really BAD luck that evening (killing a rogue on a dc 10 reflex save? that's not common at ALL!)
Am I missing something? Most of the traps in STAP seem not to be that nasty or silly, is this something that was on the first module only, or do I have to look forward to this nonsense the whole AP...
While yes, the whispering cairn is a meatgrinder, you can expect psychotically nasty dungeons, traps, and monsters through the whole AP.
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Yeh, the monetary value of 100,000 iron spheres would be pretty game breaking for any group of 1st level PC's. To eliminate the problem, and make it extra creepy, I borrowed a page from the LoTR Return of the King extended edition and made the pit filled with skulls. I added a permanent obscuring mist to the surface of the pit so that the PC's couldn't see the bones. It really unnerved them to hear that sickening "crunch, crunch" as they walked upon thousands of human skulls.
That aside, WC is the deadliest 1st level adventure I've ever run. I had one fatality in spite of action points and an extra player. Trust me, they get deadlier too.
My group managed to survive a number of the encounters/traps due to a combination of dumb luck and a strange party combination. But the truth is, the deadliness of the Whispering Caern sets the stage for later adventures. Also, the deadliness makes a bit more sense after after A Gathering of Winds. There is more to the caren then the first adventure reveals.
There was a whole thread on this when that adventure came out.
Check the Age of Worms archives.
Someone even did the math and figures out what the total possible mass of the iron was.
I think the conclusion was to make them painted ceramic balls that do the same ammount of damage
ASEO out
Ok, not to try and spoil anything, but does the rest of the AP have silly traps like the first adventure?
The worst was the iron ball trap. Did the writer have any concept of how much $$$ that many iron balls are worth? Our GM quickly made them disappear when they left the room, but silly traps like that kinda bust my "believibility" of the fantasy world alittle too much.
Also, how are first level characters supposed to survive a 50' fall from a wind tunnel after being paralyzed? I could see a TPK if one of our party members didnt make his save. There was NO WAY (at least our GM said) of knowing that the lanterns controlled that.
Am I missing something? Most of the traps in STAP seem not to be that nasty or silly, is this something that was on the first module only, or do I have to look forward to this nonsense the whole AP...
If your GM doesn't like the adventure then why is he running it? It seems that instead of making lame apologies for it, he should be changing things to suit the group.
Also, how are first level characters supposed to survive a 50' fall from a wind tunnel after being paralyzed? I could see a TPK if one of our party members didnt make his save. There was NO WAY (at least our GM said) of knowing that the lanterns controlled that.
Yes, not to sound harsh and I know another poster already mentioned it, but your DM clearly needs to brush up on his/her reading skills. The lantern connection is actually pretty obvious. The wind tunnel takes quite a few rounds to build up to a threatening wind (I actually changed this and made it full force from the get-go; so no, I don't think it's overly harsh as written). And it's not paralyzation but hypnotism, allowing plenty of opportunity for wind-blown PCs to recover. I had one character die on this trap, but like a previous poster, it was only after repeated bad rolls. In fact, the first time the PCs lit the lanterns and climbed up they were fine. It was only after they left and came back, then forgot to relight all the lanterns, that they actually sprang the trap.
There was much discussion about the value of the iron balls and such. I have at least one player who are very mathematical (he's a math professor, in fact) and this never even came up with our group of veteran players. I'd worry about the pacing and interest in the plot/action of the adventure if the first thought the players are having when facing this room is "Gee, I could cash in on all these iron balls!". There *should* be much more important issues at hand, as well as a sense of danger/urgency. That being said, if the DM doesn't like it (which clearly yours didn't) he was free to adjust (which it sounds like he did). Maybe his solution was not as solid as some mentioned here (I'm particularly fond of the skull idea) but it solved the "problem" nonetheless. Your characters are operating in a fantasy world, arguing "believability" except in the face of pure ridiculousness (which I do *not* think this qualifies as) is pointless. You want realism? Play a different game.
Even in a town like Diamond Lake, who's gonna be interested in taking 100,000 iron balls off of your hands for the rate your asking? I think the concept buying in bulk would kill your profit ratio, or you could go the other way and take your time (maybe 2-3 years in game) selling them to the occasional blacksmith or such you meet along the way.
Logic in D&D is fine, as long as it's applied BOTH ways.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Even in a town like Diamond Lake, who's gonna be interested in taking 100,000 iron balls off of your hands for the rate your asking? I think the concept buying in bulk would kill your profit ratio, or you could go the other way and take your time (maybe 2-3 years in game) selling them to the occasional blacksmith or such you meet along the way.
Logic in D&D is fine, as long as it's applied BOTH ways.
Given that it is a mining town, and has an iron mine, I would say plenty of people would be interested in purified iron to sell.
Given that it is a mining town, and has an iron mine, I would say plenty of people would be interested in purified iron to sell.Even in a town like Diamond Lake, who's gonna be interested in taking 100,000 iron balls off of your hands for the rate your asking? I think the concept buying in bulk would kill your profit ratio, or you could go the other way and take your time (maybe 2-3 years in game) selling them to the occasional blacksmith or such you meet along the way.
Logic in D&D is fine, as long as it's applied BOTH ways.
Or some of those mine managers would get jealous and locate that cache of iron balls and take it from you. Smenk would be first in line.
Ok, I guess I've never been a big fan of traps. They seem so... stupid in a RPG. If your rogue rolls (DC's always seem so high) not great and misses the trap, Boom. Take alot of damage, possibly die, heck TPK even.
I guess I hate that.
Well, traps' main purpose is to kill (or seriously injure) thieves or nosey people that you don't want sneaking around in a specific area. That said, low-level adventurers should be very careful where they stick their noses for, yes, there could be death around the next corner.
At higher levels, I use those pesky traps to slowly grind the PCs hit points so that when they reach the big bad guy at the end of the adventure, the PC party is NEVER at their total. If I get them down to say, 50% to 70% of their hit points (and ressources) when they go into the final battle, then I've done my job right.
Ultradan
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Our party came up with the novel idea of selling the location of the iron balls to smenk in exchange for the deed to the observatory. Plan is to use the observatory as a base of operations for our adventuring...
On the other hand, we also gave the location of the tomb to kelech and friends, along with the armor that *cough* some random group of adventurers pulled out of the tomb a few weeks before.
Not sure if the results will be violent or not, but wither way it should keep Smenk and Keleck, along with their associated goons out of our business for a while.
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In regards to the death traps of the adventure, our party did remarkably well. We set off a few of the minor traps, and even triggered the face trap. There were two PCs together at the top when it went off, after recovering from a turn of hypno therapy, the first ran back, jumped and slid down the chain. The other, (A stubborn dwarf) dropped prone and pounded in a piton, and managed to tie off... then waited a rediculously long time for the effect to end.
All in all, I think it was one of the best adventures I have ever been on, challenging, good plot, all good stuff.
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Ok, I guess I've never been a big fan of traps. They seem so... stupid in a RPG. If your rogue rolls (DC's always seem so high) not great and misses the trap, Boom. Take alot of damage, possibly die, heck TPK even.
I guess I hate that.
Gawds, tell me about it. I have this fighter and there's always these pesky monsters you have to fight constantly. Every critter in an adventure is against the PCs and they seem so... stupid in an RPG. If your fighter rolls (AC's and hit points seem so high) not great and misses the monster, boom. Get whacked by the monster in return, take a lot of damage, possibly die, heck TPK even.
I guess I hate that.
::wipes sarcasm from his beard:: Monsters, traps, puzzles, NPC diplomacy...all standard fixtures of RPGs, computer games, a lot of board games, and everyday life in school/work/home. Some people don't like certain aspects of the game but for every person that doesn't like traps there's someone that does. I bet there's someone in your party that does; let them take lead and build on their trap solving synergy so overcoming the obstacle becomes a team victory rather than a reason to hate something about the game. If you're playing a rogue and hate traps, then perhaps it's time to start taking some levels in another class...
As ASEO keeps mentioning, this has been a topic of discussion for two years. This thread has Mr. Jacob's explanation and links to the previous two threads on the same subject.
Did I mention that there is already a thread on this?
Check the archives for "Iron Balls"...After noting me referenced several times, you can find the thread I'm talking about.
ASEO out