Well the last thread I started about what kinds of adventures you want to see in Dungeon Magazine is proving really popular but as a reflection of that what don't you want to see anymore. Is some stuff really cliched and you don't use it because x is too close to that adventure you ran last year for your party.It would be great if the contributers pitched in too as its great to here all the spicy bits that are coming.
I'll start, I am bored of the basic dungeon crawl. Maure Castle adventures are good and CHallenge of Champions is different enough but I think there is an over saturation of the old trapped tomb adventure.
Over to you guys
Oh and no more Styes
ONLY KIDDING!
I love the Styes and and Richard Petts adventures
My do not wish for list includes: ... planar adventures...
I couldn't disagree more with one caveat: I find that the basic flavor of the planes in D&D is enough of a near miss with what I want it to be that it rubs me the wrong way. With a few tweaks, I love planar adventures. (My feeling about psionics is much the same.)
Planar adventures bug me when the author treats them as a chance to fall back on stereotypes, hackneyed plots, or NPC motivations are oversimplified because of planar roles. (Demons and Devils doing things because that's what personifications of evil do is the classic problem, but the variety of personifications of principles in D&D opens up whole new legions of hackneyed, pointless motivations.)
I love planar adventures when the author uses them as a springboard to cut their imagination loose and to have characters interact with overt symbols. Planar adventures are a great way to bring in the dream-like reasoning of classic faerie tales without having to justify how all the scenes happen in terms of spell levels. The Eberron concept of planar proxImity is particularly good for this.
Putting it another way: I love planar adventures in D&D when the planar elements are derived from human-level story details rather than the other way around.
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I don't really have any specific types of adventures that I'd like to see banned from the magazine. As long as it's well-written, I'm up for anything. Things like epic adventures aren't of as much personal use for me, but as long as they're not included every month I'm fine with them - an adventure can be a good read even if there's no current use for it, and by holding onto the magazine you can always go back for it when it will be more useful. For example, I don't currently play in Eberron, but you better believe that I'll hang onto Chimes at Midnight for when I do.
Half-dragon bad guys... Ugh! I couldn't bare to read another adventure with a half-dragon something at the end of it. I think they've been a bit over-used in the past.
Ultradan
I don't really have any specific types of adventures that I'd like to see banned from the magazine. As long as it's well-written, I'm up for anything. Things like epic adventures aren't of as much personal use for me, but as long as they're not included every month I'm fine with them - an adventure can be a good read even if there's no current use for it, and by holding onto the magazine you can always go back for it when it will be more useful. For example, I don't currently play in Eberron, but you better believe that I'll hang onto Chimes at Midnight for when I do.
I'm with you here. I mean presuming its well written, original and exciting to play I can't think of any style of adventure I would automatically shoot down in nearly all cases.
It's usually easier in this case to critique a specific adventure in this case but I notice that I mostly don't bother. If its bad enough I don't finish it and then I don't know enough to critique it.
For example, I don't currently play in Eberron, but you better believe that I'll hang onto Chimes at Midnight for when I do.
You'll win out for it in the end too, as I have one sequel done (well it needs an editorial overhaul before I send it in, but mostly done) and I am proposing one more to make a kind of Chimes-arc (if it gets by that vicious Render that is).
All together the three will be even more fun to run methinks.
I totally agree with your sentiments! There is nothing I don't like as long as it is done well. I'm the same way about movies now (I used to have favorite genres, now I pick em as much by the director/writer/actors/reviews as by what they are about). I used to think I didn't like dungeon-crawls, but one Whispering Cairn later I'm like: "Wow, that's awesome! You're underground and its dark and terrifying, and ancient evils lurk there in the deep...why didn't I think of it that way before?" Now I even get excited about writing and running dungeon-crawls myself, whereas a few years ago I would have rather sawed off a leg (Pett's, not mine of course) than run a crawl (Come to think of it I would still rather saw off Pett's leg, but I'd also run a crawl without complaint, it's just that sawing off Pett's leg would be even more fun).
I do tend to dig things that either break the mold in well thought out ways, or really encapsulate a classic feel while still finding ways to be totally innovative.
Fewer evil cults in the low level slot, pretty please? I know they can be a lot of fun and easy to explain how they're evil and all, but can't we try something else sometimes?
I'd rather not see:
- Eberron adventures (I don't care fore the setting)
- Adventures using FR's newfangled wacky cosmology
- Political intrigue adventures (bo-ring)
- All-humanoid adversaries
- Adventures that don't introduce a new monster
- "Comedy" adventures
Hey, you asked! ;)
I agree with the "anything well-written is at least good read" theory but I feel compelled to add one little caveat: I prefer not to be force-fed the latest marketing scheme from whatever themed latest release has to offer. I understand enough about business & profit margins to understand why Dungeon would include, say, a desert adventure during the same month the Sandstorm suppliment is released. Fine. No problem. But devoting an entire issue to what amounts to a long-written advertisement for some product is irritating. Even if the accompanying adventures are "well-written" (and in this case the quotation marks imply definite subjectiveness), if I was truly interested in a bunch of such themed material I would have already purchased said product. Is anyone following me?
This complaint does not in any way imply that Dungeon has ever committed such an act. It is a preventative complaint. I would be extremely disappointed if the magazine allowed itself to become little more than an ad campaign for some D&D product.
-Centerfolds of Paizo staff (PLEASE keep these out of the mag).
I hear rumor that Mike McArtor is really hot...
-Drizz't
-Elminster
Exception: If the adventure involves laughing as either (or both) of those die, it's OK
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Though I don't play FR or Eberron, I can convert almost anything, so setting specificity is only a small problem to be overcome (I will find a way to incorporate Mieville's vodyanoi into my GH plans!). That said, there are things that just do not translate well - I would prefer not to see:
FR andventures that involve portals, Undermountain or the Chosen of anyone or anything
Eberron adventures that depend heavily on technological gizmos. I can tweak an adventure like "Chimes of midnight" with no real effort, but I am at something of a loss about what to do with the new train adventure. A set of linked barges?
Dragonlance adventures that involve tech-gnomes, kender, colour-coded arcanists, clerics or any reference to any DL novel.
I'm also rather tired of vampires, drow and mind flayers.
However,
-Drizz't
-ElminsterException: If the adventure involves laughing as either (or both) of those die, it's OK
I'm totally onboard with this.
Grrr... the Board ate my longer post.
In summary, what I would NOT want to see in Dungeon:
- Mystara or Far Realm stuff (hard luck for me)
- more "funny" or "manga" illustrations for the adventures (thinking of "Final Resting Place", great adventure, less great pics)
- FR periphery stuff (Kara Tur, Horde, etc.)
Bocklin
Grrr... the Board ate my longer post.
In summary, what I would NOT want to see in Dungeon:
- Mystara or Far Realm stuff (hard luck for me)
Bocklin
Very hard luck, I'm afraid. :(
;)GGG
Grrr... the Board ate my longer post.
In summary, what I would NOT want to see in Dungeon:
- Mystara or Far Realm stuff (hard luck for me)
Bocklin
Very hard luck, I'm afraid. :(
;)GGG
Seriously though I would suggest giving "Seeds of Sehan" a try, and not just because I helped write some of it. Almost by accident it turned out to be a loose enough set of adventures that each can be played out as a one off. My favorite part of the arc is that each episode has it's own unique Black Hat, along with the secret Black Hat who connects the whole thing.
Also as a side note, in reference to Mystaran places like the Lost City, and the Isle of Dread, both were designed to be remote enough that could be dropped into any campaign setting, there's no real history to speak of that you would be breaking and both work well in Greyhawk, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, and most homebrews as far as I can tell. The Known World was just a big jumble of stuff anyway so in many ways it is the easiest world to cherry-pick from. The same goes for Bargle the Imfamous, the ultimate moustache-twirling D&D wizard villain (thanks for building him Mike. Now I can scartch that off my to do list). Can we get an action figure or mini please?
GGG
What don't I want to see.... hmmm. Not much. I suppose adventures that rely too heavily on a pre-fab setting's history and then go on to not explain that history. It sort of leaves me feeling like an outsider (chaos, evil). I tend to like things that stretch the concept of what an adventure is. So long as it is well done I'll probably like it.
GGG
Manure Castle.
Manure Castle.
When I first read it on the cover of the magazine, that's what I thought it said. :) Reading it reenforced that feeling. I'm just not into the Gygax style of DnD but what one person doesn't like another person will.
--Ray.
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I think DMaple is entitled to his opinion, whether others like it or not.
An opinion is one thing--calling something that someone has worked dilligently on for many years s#!t is altogether different. And I never said that he was not entitled to his opinion, I just said that insulting others is not a good way to make friends.
I don't want to see:
- anything low on plot (things like Maure Castle are just dungeons without captivating plot lines);
- anything that is not generic to all basic fantasy settings (some Eberonn or planar adventures are hard or impossible to adapt to other settings).
There's others who hate Maure Castle? I'm not alone? Yay! We should form a support group or something. :)
Manure Castle.By the way--giving demeaning names to something that lots of other people like won't make you any friends on these boards.
Talking about that I went on the Wizards boards to post something and get feedback, explaining I was an experienced DM blah Blah ..... When someone called Zombidragon posted that he doubted I had much experience because I had only posted once on there ... How rude I thought... He was slapped down by another poster. But on these boards everyones pretty civil and friendly, If there is any verbal duelling it all in good fun.
Adventures written by anyone with the initials N, G, V or L...
*cries*
--John Ling
Hah!
-BMC
1. Adventures based on what amounts to be a pun or a parody, no matter how cleverly hidden.
2. Adventures based on obvious real-world events translated into fantasy.
3. Overladen plots with so many twists and turns the adventurers have to make 16 Knowledge checks just to find their way out of the bathroom.
4. Adventures with more roleplay encounters than combat encounters.
What can I say? I like dungeon crawls. :)
-Amber S.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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1. Adventures based on what amounts to be a pun or a parody, no matter how cleverly hidden.
Or, adventures that marginally crazy over-involved readers might believe are based on a cleverly hidden pun, despite evidence to the contrary.
Also, I'm sick of adventures where the bad guy is seen doing really amazing things throughout, but in the end, it's revealed to be Old Man McMurdy using a projector. C'mon, how the hell can the players not tell that it's a projector and not a real ghost. Or for that matter, how could these arthritic old men set up these elaborate cable systems to make it appear they are flying around the haunted museum/carnival/ice cream factory. Seriously, it's a ridiculous premise, and I for one will not tolerate it any longer.
Zoinks.
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Also, I'm sick of adventures where the bad guy is seen doing really amazing things throughout, but in the end, it's revealed to be Old Man McMurdy using a projector. C'mon, how the hell can the players not tell that it's a projector and not a real ghost. Or for that matter, how could these arthritic old men set up these elaborate cable systems to make it appear they are flying around the haunted museum/carnival/ice cream factory. Seriously, it's a ridiculous premise, and I for one will not tolerate it any longer.Zoinks.
Ruh Roh...
1. Adventures based on what amounts to be a pun or a parody, no matter how cleverly hidden.
Or, adventures that marginally crazy over-involved readers might believe are based on a cleverly hidden pun, despite evidence to the contrary.
Also, I'm sick of adventures where the bad guy is seen doing really amazing things throughout, but in the end, it's revealed to be Old Man McMurdy using a projector. C'mon, how the hell can the players not tell that it's a projector and not a real ghost. Or for that matter, how could these arthritic old men set up these elaborate cable systems to make it appear they are flying around the haunted museum/carnival/ice cream factory. Seriously, it's a ridiculous premise, and I for one will not tolerate it any longer.
Zoinks.
ARRRRRRRG!
::Throws away next fifteen proposals::
And I would have gotten away with too! If it wasn't for you kids!
Ruh Roh...
And your stupid dog too!
Downer. I'm sick of Downer. I hate Downer. Down with Downer!
And I don't care much for the non-adventure articles. If I want that stuff, I have <I>Dragon</I>. Give that stuff (and Downer) the boot and print another adventure in that space!
I think that threads like this are thinly disguised attempts to get opinionated people like me to offend other readers with their less than popular opinions. Here goes...
To agree with previous posters,
Bill Lumberg: NO MORE MURDER MYSTERIES. How many of these have I seen in the last 12-18 issues. Too damn many. Also, please spare us any more attempts at Peace Missions & Diplomatic ventures.
UltraDan: NO MORE HALF-DRAGONS. Stupid idea to begin with, overused to boot. Dragons are humping everything that walks in D&D these days. Stop the madness already people!
Shade: NO MORE EBBERON. I'll add to this, NO MORE FORGETABLE REALMS either. I will not use this opportunity to revisit the Greyhawk vs. FR/Ebberon issues of past threads, but I think we're due for a GH adventure or ten before we have to suffer through anymore trips to Waterdeep or reading about Elminster's latest romantic exploits.
Lastly, why do some of my esteemed fellow readers have a dour view of dungeon crawls? That's what the game was built upon. I think most of the recent adventures in the magazine have tried to steer away from the "classic dungeon crawl". I can't remember a pure crawl in Dungeon since the last Maure Castle and the Mud Sorcerer's Tomb revisit. Spare me the sappy "All-roleplaying" BS adventures that are written by authors who are aspiring playrights and novelists, pleasssssssse.
Purist dungeon crawls bore me to tears. Nothing puts myself or my players asleep like a 5 level dungeon complex with dozens of rooms. Small dungeons broken up with investigation, role-playing and problem solving are welcome.
Small dungeons broken up with investigation, role-playing and problem solving are welcome.
Nail on the head! Nail on the head!
That's my absolute favorite breakdown of an adventure for any gaming system, D&D or otherwise!
Spare me the sappy "All-roleplaying" BS adventures that are written by authors who are aspiring playrights and novelists, pleasssssssse.
::Nick cries salt tears and gives up dreams of being a playright or novelist...cause writing for Dungeon magazine is faaar more important than those silly diversions!...I'm not kidding by the way::
Whispering Cairn is my favoritest of dungeon crawls so far.
Maure Castle has some really innovative and interesting stuff, but when it is completely untied from plot, it's hard to get me or my players excited about it. If I wanted to run an awesome crawl though, I'd totally steal at least a few things from Maure. The gallery of paintings is awesome in the last installment.
That being said, I like sappy "all-roleplaying" adventures a great deal. Prince of Redhand by He-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named is one of my favorite adventures of recent times. Tasty.
I agree whole heartedly. I like a little hack n' slash to go with my role playing, but I find it's kind of like habeneros - adds a fun kick, but a little goes a long way. Straight up, huge complex dungeon crawls are not my personal cup of tea, but a well done dungeon with an interesting premise/plot is more than welcome.
Also sounds like I'm in the minority, but I'm running an Eberron campaign, and I like having the occasional option I can drop right in. Of course I see the flip side too - with too much setting specific flavor you get something no one else can use.
Ah, the joys of trying to please all the people all of the time.
I agree whole heartedly. I like a little hack n' slash to go with my role playing, but I find it's kind of like habeneros - adds a fun kick, but a little goes a long way. Straight up, huge complex dungeon crawls are not my personal cup of tea, but a well done dungeon with an interesting premise/plot is more than welcome.
Also sounds like I'm in the minority, but I'm running an Eberron campaign, and I like having the occasional option I can drop right in. Of course I see the flip side too - with too much setting specific flavor you get something no one else can use.
Ah, the joys of trying to please all the people all of the time.
Hey FilmGuy77! Welcome to the Paizo boards sir!
Yeah, the meshing of good combat and good roleplaying is really what makes the game pop for me. Then the fighting takes on a whole other flavor and it means more when you win or lose. A good admixture rocks!
Eberron also rocks IMHO, so no worries FilmGuy, we have plenty of Eberronites here as well, almost as many as the people who aren't keen on the setting. ;-)
4. Adventures with more roleplay encounters than combat encounters.
I'd sure get upset if all the adventures fit this mold but presuming that its well written and interesting I certianly would not mind it if adventures like this sometimes graced the magazine. Actually when I think obout it I'm pretty sure that such adventures already do.
Also, I'm sick of adventures where the bad guy is seen doing really amazing things throughout, but in the end, it's revealed to be Old Man McMurdy using a projector. C'mon, how the hell can the players not tell that it's a projector and not a real ghost. Or for that matter, how could these arthritic old men set up these elaborate cable systems to make it appear they are flying around the haunted museum/carnival/ice cream factory. Seriously, it's a ridiculous premise, and I for one will not tolerate it any longer.Zoinks.
Huh?
are you reading the same magazine as I am? I can't really remember the last time I saw this in the magazine.
Bill Lumberg: NO MORE MURDER MYSTERIES. How many of these have I seen in the last 12-18 issues. Too damn many.
I can only think of two in the last two years...and one of them was not a mystery.
Also, I'm sick of adventures where the bad guy is seen doing really amazing things throughout, but in the end, it's revealed to be Old Man McMurdy using a projector. C'mon, how the hell can the players not tell that it's a projector and not a real ghost. Or for that matter, how could these arthritic old men set up these elaborate cable systems to make it appear they are flying around the haunted museum/carnival/ice cream factory. Seriously, it's a ridiculous premise, and I for one will not tolerate it any longer.Zoinks.
Huh?
are you reading the same magazine as I am? I can't really remember the last time I saw this in the magazine.
I guess you haven't watched enough Scooby Doo lately, Jeremy. Ah, that stoner and his talking dog. What crazy mysteries will they get involved in next?