I'm wondering what the types would be of some of the races presented in the article. Are the Khepri and Vodyanoi Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid and do they have any subtypes; or would it just be humanoid with the race as a subtype e.g.: Khepri (Humanoid) (khepri). Any help would be great!
They don't get any monstrous humanoid HD etc.
I think they're humanoids. The subtype thing is a good question, though.
First off, good to have you aboard, Jez.
You're take on China is an educated one so... fair enough.
I can write in layers of depth that choke the eye... and then I can write for kids as well.
All in all, you'll probably sell more books if you don't go around choking eyes. I try to write so that people will easily understand my concepts, but some of my concepts are not easily understood, and require a reader with greater acumen.
I have yet to read Perdido or Scar... but I'm going to give them a shot based on the many recommendations I've heard here.
Hate to inform you that in two months an entire issue is being devoted to... well... it's called Tolkienpalooza!
There's an anti-Sauron in there who is just so syrupy sweet neutral good. And his great eye just kinds winks at you flirtily.
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I'm sure no one is offended, and your comments are of course welcome. I don't mind Mieville as an author (loved Perdido Street Station but haven't got on with the others) and wasn't really terribly aware of his politics (though most Marxists are walking, talking jokes - maybe there could be a Living Joke template similar to the Living Spell, though I digress.)
My view of the issue was that it didn't really rock my boat, but to be frank I only really subscribe to Dragon out of loyalty, as I really far prefer Dungeon, and most issues don't really interest me tremendously. However, I remember one issue on the Game of Thrones series which, never having read, left me very cold.
I think that, while it is brave to do issues like this, you are only really appealing to the fans of this work. While I respect Erik's views tremendously, it might have been better, as the poster above suggests, to have a couple of pages saying "Hey, China Mieville is great" rather than an extended adaptation of his work to D&D. I didn't think any of the monsters or other articles were bad at all, but nothing really got me going either. And for lots of readers, it was fairly dead space.
As stated above, Dragon hasn't interested me much as a publication for a while. I'm not sure why - it just doesn't seem to have bite in the same way as it did before, but I can't really put my finger on it as to the reason. But extended explorations of themes which are for maybe a minority of readers probably doesn't help.
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I was just reading through the Nov. 2002 Dungeon #95/Polyhedron #154 (having bought it during the recent sale to get some more background on Scuttlecove for the STAP), and came across this in the Erik Mona's Polyhedron editorial, in which he discusses licensing of existing properties in the early days of d20:
"Since I'm too cheap to afford licensed Mini-Games here in Polyhedron, I thought I'd use this space to highlight some yet-to-be-secured licenses in hopes that one of the fine d20 publishers reading this editorial is spurred on to creating a few games I'd like to play.
"Perdido Street Station: China Mieville's impressive Dickensian urban fantasy shook the foundations of speculative fiction last year, gaining critical acclaim and numerous award nominations. RPG fans have been clamoring for steampunk since the birth of the d20 System, and while Mieville's novel doesn't quite fit such easy categorization, a game based on Perdido would include mechanical consciences, railway trains, and a bewildering collection of oddball technology.
"In Perdido, Mieville's sprawling, confounding metropolis New Crobuzon becomes a character as rich as any Lankhmar, Sanctuary, or Greyhawk. Inspired by the seedier neighborhoods{1} of Victorian London, New Crobuzon screams out for the kind of development typical to most RPG sourcebooks. Best of all, Mieville himself is an RPG enthusiast eager to make his brilliant book a big, fat RPG product. When it happens, I'll be the first in line."
It turns out that 4 years later, it actually was Paizo doing the conversion, and Erik was definitely first in line! :)
Now, in this same editorial, Erik refers to "inferior writers like Lovecraft", so I have to take his opinions with a grain of salt. ;) After all, whatever you think of his writing style, an author whose works have had this much influence so long after they were penned has definitely got something going for him.
{1} Or should that be "neighbourhoods". ;)
I have to say I really liked this issue. It was different, refreshing, and for once I felt Dragon took its time to get into the depth of a topic, rather than just haste through a million cool ideas.
I never finished reading Perdido street Station, but now I think perhaps I should get back to it. I had no idea about Mieville being a self styled radical marxist, but that can mean so many things it hardly affects my opinion of his creations.
I am planning on picking up some of the races for my Mystara campaign. If I ever run an Eberron campaign, I might steal the whole city. Could be interesting.
I like theme issues. I like issues dealing with things that are different. Overall, I enjoyed it. I almost forgive you for cheating me off Mystara material in the Campaign Classics issue... ;)
Havard
To be clear my reference to Lovecraft's inferiority was in direct comparison to William S. Burroughs. I have tremendous respect for Lovecraft, but in a literary sense I think Burroughs is the more important author.
--Erik
You rainbow wrestler, you sipper of webs, I'm employing (Wolman's invented but Burrough's mastered) cut-up technique now but it's been late to work every day this is certainly getting weak.
Speaking of Lovecraft, I wonder how well a Lovecraft-themed article would fair...
>88E
I've had the issue for a few weeks, polished off Perdido Street Station before the holidays and finished The Scar just a few weeks ago. Probably goes without saying that I really liked the issue, esp. all the Bas-Lag stuff (seems to be one of those love it/hate it things around here).
Only complaints are that the map doesn't capture enough the world, as described in The Scar, and that the rough time line set out in the Gazetteer piece seems to encompass some things that occurred in Perdido Street Station and Iron Council, but almost nothing of what occurred in The Scar (which leads me to believe that Mr. Miéville is, perhaps, not quite done with that particular story, or more likely, such material could not be included without spoiling the novel.) All of that is fairly trivial, however, as it leaves plenty of world-building to those of us in the readership who enjoy such activities.
As I mentioned, I enjoyed most of the Bas-Lag material, and found it fairly easy to transpose to other worlds/campaigns in some brief, bored-at-work thought experiments. I also high recommend the first two novels, but have been accused of being a literary elitist (I like Proust), so please take that endorsement with a grain of salt.
All in all, excellent work. I sincerely hope that Dragon will continue to offer the reader an occasional view into some world, plane or possibility a few steps removed from the more well-known and well-supported material.
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i think i get what you say jade about how some concepts can be tricky to get across in simple language, but i mean, take philip pullman's his dark materials - there's some *way* complex ideas in there - but the books are easy to read in terms of the language used and the style, they just require you to think about what you're reading.
Now there's a series I'd like to see featured in Dragon. I thought it was extremely innovative and compelling; that said, I still wouldn't want to see an entire issue devoted to it. I really loved the books, but, y'know, variety is the spice of life and all that...
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To be clear my reference to Lovecraft's inferiority was in direct comparison to William S. Burroughs. I have tremendous respect for Lovecraft, but in a literary sense I think Burroughs is the more important author.
C'mon, Erik, backing off now? What, are you afraid those rabid Cthulhu cultists working at Paizo will find out you're not quite one of THEM?
...Uh, not that there's anything wrong with being a rabid cultist. Heh... I'll just... go over he-- (sounds of running footsteps)
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I'm not backing off. I really, really like H.P. Lovecraft, enough that I've bought several expensive reprints of the Weird Tales issues in which many of his stories appeared. I have several books by S.T. Joshi. If it wasn't for James Jacobs, I'd say I might be the biggest Lovecraft fan at Paizo. James is _completely_ obsessed, maybe even worse than my obsession with Greyhawk. The man frightens me, is what I'm trying to say.
But I stil think William S. Burroughs is a better writer, and a more important one. And it must just drive Jacobs crazy to know that I am right.
--Erik Mona
it might be pretty diffcult to drive someone crazy who likes Lovecraft that might - such an individual would be pretty out there already. ;)
Speaking of Lovecraft, I wonder how well a Lovecraft-themed article would fair...
The October issue from either '05 or '06 did a chunk on this, called The Shadow over D&D. Discussed Lovecraftian influences, what monsters are suitable for such a game, etc. Was quite good.
I'd just like to come out in support of the Bas-Lag issue, which I got my hands on over the weekend. I've only read Perdido Street Station, but I loved it, and I think the magazine did a good job of portraying the world in game terms.
I can agree that most of the presented mechanics, races & monsters don't easily slot into existing games. The Forgotten Realms would be a different place with Weavers or Slake Moths running around. But that applies to almost everything but the most generic of articles, and I'd get very bored if Dragon did nothing but print such. I think the current balance is about right - some issues are more adaptable than others, but that's fine.
About my only complaint is that some of the artwork for the bestiary article wasn't great, and didn't fit description of the monsters in question. The Anophelii & Weaver in particular, didn't look like the artist had been given a good description to work from. The Weaver in particular, with it's fanged maw (and baby-arms?) despite being described as having a spider's mandibles. Likewise, the Khepri looked more like they had the head of a bug, rather than an entire bug for a head. On the other hand, pieces like the Garuda or Handlinger were great, as were the Cactacae.
That's about it, other than to again say you have a happy reader here.
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Kobold Press
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I hate to be a stick in the mud here, but any word on the types/subtypes of the Khepri and Vodyanoi? Are they both Humanoid? Do the Vodyanoi have the Amphibious special quality? It says in the entry "they are fully amphibian," but the article does not list Amphibious in the Vadyanoi Racial Traits.
Yes, they are both Humanoid and Vodyanoi should have the amphibious special quality. These omissions were entirely my slip-up; I was thinking of them as PC races and not as MM entries.
It just hit me how well the grindylow could work with kopru.
They're even the same CR. :)
Savage Tide DMs might want to add them to the mix for some variety.
Ahem. i hated that issue! 2 much china mieville! the books mite be good, but 4 issues?! 2 much! thats not what im buing DRAGON 4!!
um... what ARE kopru exactly?
ur...why are people so interested in china mieville?! there were 2 many issues about it in that issue!
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The races are cool too. The khepri are, in theory, people (or women) with beetle heads. BUT,...they have a really well-developed backstory and their motivations and culture seem different enough from "human" to make them really interesting.
Or the garuda with their idea of "choice thievery." The worst crime in their culture is to deprive another of freedom; everything is based on degrees of deprivation of the freedom of others.
MUTANT CATERPILLAR PEOPLE WITH A TASTE FOR HUMAN FLESH. The other stuff is awesome, too.
I just read through Perdido Street Station, and saw nothing out of the Weaver or Slake Moths stats, that would make the Weaver immune to paralysis from the Slake Moth's hypnotic wings, even though in the novel it was.
Yes, eric mona. but i tried it; im only 11, and it was a little too mature 4 me!