My group recently finished the Champion's Belt having failed to stop the Apostle from devouring Auric before being killed. My campaign takes place in Forgotten Realms so I'm using Waterdeep as the Free City. At this point an extreme amount of undead just rose in the arena and my PC's have been teleported a couple blocks away and now have some hard decisions to make.
I'm looking for some opinions on which wight I should use from this point forward. I don't want them to try and stay in the city and try to save it. I'd rather they continue back to "Diamond Lake" and continue to the next module. So I'm looking for some nice motivation to get out of dodge. The standard wight is only a CR 3 monster. Sure with a lot of them that can get really bad for the group. But they could also get ballsy after facing a group of them and want to continue to try and save the city. In Libris Mortis (pg 121) there is the slaughter wight which is a CR 8 monster. The party could crush one of two of these guy's easily, but they are not such a push over as a standard wight. I think having all the wights that were released be slaughter wights could provide the proper motivation I'm looking for. And being this campaign is in Waterdeep, all the big time NPC's shouldn't be able to easily solve this problem for them.
Should I go this route or keep to the standard wight?
Level drain ought to be enough to scare anybody, particularly the lightly-armored spellcasters. They may only be +3 to hit (on average) but flanking and sneak attacks (they have great Hide and Move Silently numbers) can make up for that.
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Level drain ought to be enough to scare anybody, particularly the lightly-armored spellcasters. They may only be +3 to hit (on average) but flanking and sneak attacks (they have great Hide and Move Silently numbers) can make up for that.
I agree- they may be relatively weak, but they're much more of a threat when there are hundreds- or thousands- of them. If you use the flanking and AoO rules to the best effect it wouldn't take long to take out the entire party. I know that's not your goal- but one such encounter with even a relatively large group of wights would be enough to motivate the players.
Level drain ought to be enough to scare anybody, particularly the lightly-armored spellcasters. They may only be +3 to hit (on average) but flanking and sneak attacks (they have great Hide and Move Silently numbers) can make up for that.
Don't forget you could also have the wights do the aid another action to increase another wight's attack roll.
I agree that wights are scary because of their level drain. However if I've learned anything from the experience at Encounter at Blackwall Keep, it's that mobs of low level enemies that have a hard time hitting don't really add up to much for a party that's much higher in level. In theory all those lizardfolk were scary, but in actuality the enlarged barbarian could stand there and cleave away to his bloody heart's content. I wonder about the wights limitations in the same way. After the games the characters are likely to be what? Level 11? And after a few weeks in Waterdeep/Greyhawk/Big Cityopolis they probably have a few new nifty toys to make them especially deadly and hard to hit.
I don't think that all those wights pose a really direct threat to the characters. At least not in groups less than a mob. However, those might just be the wights who were once commoners. What about all those other people who aren't commoners? Might they not be advanced wights or wight variants as the original poster suggested? And surely a few green worms might have a say in all of this undead goodness.
I'd be inclined to throw a group of 10-15 regular wights at the party just to see how they do against them. If the PC's cream them as I suspect they would, then start spicing things up. Waves upon wave of regular wights with a few other nasties thrown in. As time goes on more evil and formidable opponents arrive, either created by the waves of negative energy still resonating throughout the district, or attracted by the sound of 10,000 souls crying out and rising together as undead. The Death Star has nothing on the Ulgurstasta.
Id say rather then try and scare the PC's out of town with something far beyond their control instead try to send them the message there is little they can do abou the wights. With the city actually being waterdeep you have PLENTY of high level citizenry who certiantly arnt going to let thousands of murderous undead that feature the create spawn ability run through town for long. The churches in town alone have enough in their to destroy/command a good chunk of them. This is not to say the loss of thousands of lives and the extream damage and panic it caused is easily rectified but it should just ne stressed that the PC's are best off letting others handel it.
Check out the DMG II; it has rules for mobs. A mob of wights would be a CR 8 menace, and a scary one at that.
Now we're talking! 10,000+ wights make a lot of mobs. The first CR 8 would be easy. The fifth one as the PC's reach the edge of the district/city or whatever, would be much scarier. It would be easy to incorporate all sorts of other NPCs in the background fighting off their own mobs and yelling at the PCs to get out while they can. Flames, explosions, smoke, screaming, gangs of telporting wizards sprouting lightning like tree branches, and wights wights everywhere. Wheeeee! Apocalyptically scrumptious!
I whould also like to see that stats for a Wight Mob, as i im thinking of center stageing the fight against the Wights with Tome of Battle fights as the players fight for Sharn (Free City)
I think that after a long time fighting a war in sharn the players will be really sure that they are the only force that can save the world from the forces of Kyuss (in my path he is a Giant sorcerer that bonded with a Rakasha Raja during the destruction of the Giant civilisation)
I think that a good fight against Wight Mobs, Kyuss Worm Swarms and Ebon Triad Cultists for the Free City is a great way to exhalt your players as the heroes of their era...
Plus there's the whole create spawn thing. In a city of 1-2 level commoners, 10,000 wights can become 50,000 wights pretty quickly.
Indeed... The wights created from the arena patrons would certainly "infect" cityfolk rather easily. It would be a real catastrophe in Waterdeep.
The base wight should be enough. And like Mr. Jacobs suggests, use the DMGII mob rules. PCs (and most everyone else in the Castle Ward) would be overwhelmed and rise as wights with mobs running around.
Since it's Waterdeep, PCs might be able to escape and allow Blackstaff Tower or other high-level adventurers or Elminster or Mystra herself to deal with the wights, but with Raknian becoming a death knight and the infestation being their fault to some degree, PCs should stay and try to clean up.
I plan on doing my best to make this scene happen. I want it to become a 5-6 session Dawn of the Dead romp, leading to multiple large-scale battles and many skirmishes, rescue missions, hit-and-run scenarios, building-building fighting, with other baddies and foes coming out of the wood work to either capitalize on the chaos or take direct control of the zombies (among others, perhaps Bozal, Darl, Raknian, or all three). By that time, PCs should be able to hose wights with relative ease, but with mobs running around, PCs won't be able to just move/attack/move/attack all the time.
If the PCs try to flee, make sure they feel the sting of the wights on their way out. If they're heroes, they should stay. If they're not, they should really have to fight their way out, at least having to face Raknian astride his nightmare steed. I mean, think of the PCs trying to leave the arena with thousands of wights swarming the stands... unless someone has teleport. ;-)
I've been meaning to read up on Mob rules and will most likely use them in this scenario. So far I am planning to use the slaughter wight as a "captain" for groups of wights that I'm building encounters for. If they continue to crush my encounters I may be forced to put in more slaughter wights. It makes sense that other adventurer's in the crowd that were level drained could be more powerful than a standard wight. So far in my experience with my group, a lot of low cr's really do nothing against them. A favored soul in the group pulls out "Mantle of Unassailable Flame" which is non core but too late to pull out. That spell alone does 3d6 damage to any weapon attacking him. Wights using natural weapons, possibly even with mob rules will most likely just bounce off of him. That's just one example of what I'm going to have to contend with. If they start smashing wight groups easily they will be more inclined to stay and try to save the city. I want to them move on and not entrench themselves in the city and have no problem setting up encounters for them to try and turn the tide into a stalemate. I plan on leaving Waterdeep an undead infested hell hole for a time and possibly for some epic level play after Kyuss is defeated.
Most likely they are going to try and set up a base camp at one of the major temples in castle ward. Then the rest of my campaign will turn into saving Waterdeep unless I can convince them to go after the source.
I've just finished the Champion's belt module and my players also failed to stop the cataclysm from happening.
Mob idea is very nice BUT : what about flying characters ? I have a character who is a warlock. He can fly for 24 hours and from his position launch as many eldritch blasts as he wants... Any idea on how to make them understand what happened is pretty unstoppable, at least for their party. Also I would believe that even if the high level characters from the world want to do something about it, they won't be able to clean the place in one day, and probably won't be able to clean it at all...
I also have another question. The apostolic scrolls : are they re-usable ??? Nothing mentions if they're detsroyed after calling one ulgurstasta... Any thoughts ?
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I also have another question. The apostolic scrolls : are they re-usable ??? Nothing mentions if they're detsroyed after calling one ulgurstasta... Any thoughts ?
The Apostolic Scrolls are not scrolls in the D&D metagame sense. The fall into the same catagory as the legendary texts Libris Mortis, Book of Vile Darkness, and Necronomicon. Effectively, they're the "cookbooks" of upper echelon evil. So as many "cooks" that can fit into the kitchen of evil can use the Scrolls. Kyuss would have wanted it this way. ::evil grin::
My intentions, if my PCs fail (they've just entered the Coenoby), is to have the whole event shift the Free City out of phase with the rest of the Prime Material (see original thread here). Call it a demiplane, Ravenloft, whatever. I'll make it clear to the characters that something irrevocably bad is about to happen and they better get out of town. The waves of wights converting the huge population of the Free City into wights ought to curb any sense of heroism at this point. Sure, let them save some of the locals, but make it clear that all cannot be saved. Once they escape, let the rumours spread that the "big guns" are coming to aid the City. The big guns can be whatever hackneyed uber-NPCs you want. This should be enough for the PCs to slip off to Diamond Lake/Daggerford.
I also have another question. The apostolic scrolls : are they re-usable ??? Nothing mentions if they're detsroyed after calling one ulgurstasta... Any thoughts ?
Actually, it is mentioned at the end of the Apostolic Scrolls sidebar. The scroll is a one-shot item. Once the ulgurstasta is released, the scroll becomes non-magical. It still contains all of the lore written in it, hoewever, and grants a +4 bonus to Knowledge (religion) checks when researching Kyuss.
Level drain ought to be enough to scare anybody, particularly the lightly-armored spellcasters. They may only be +3 to hit (on average) but flanking and sneak attacks (they have great Hide and Move Silently numbers) can make up for that.
As a DM I would tell my Players that a mob this size could easily over run and grapple them into submission. If they persist in fighting the mob give them one last warning the mob will tear them limb from limb despite their armor. Then no fight, just DM ruling DEAD.
It's a tough world, learn or die.
Mob idea is very nice BUT : what about flying characters ? I have a character who is a warlock. He can fly for 24 hours and from his position launch as many eldritch blasts as he wants... Any idea on how to make them understand what happened is pretty unstoppable, at least for their party. Also I would believe that even if the high level characters from the world want to do something about it, they won't be able to clean the place in one day, and probably won't be able to clean it at all...
I think it comes down to a matter of flavor. Surely one would think that if there are any more capable heroes than the PCs to save the Free City, they will. In which case, the city is saved, but with a hefty body count.
On the other hand, perhaps the wights spread underground. Certainly when the sun is high in the sky, undead seek the comforts of the dark. It seems likely in this scenario that the wights become a subterranean plague for the Free City. (You might even be able to reuse Zyrxog's lair as a breeding ground for the undead terrors.) That would stymie any "just fly over'em and blast'em" attempts, and affix a kind of everlasting tragedy stigma to the failure of the PCs efforts. Plus, this offers the possibility of developing into a whole new adventure.
~WEG~ Just tell the players to do the Wight thing, or else!
Something else that comes to mind is the how quick the threat could be put down.
Back in the old 1ed and 2ed Waterdeep books and boxset, the city's defenses were broken down. Between the armed forces of Waterdeep, the number of adventurers in town at any given time, the elite forces (which included a frost giant, I believe), the number of clerics, and the Lords themselves, the threat could be contained relatively quickly. There would still be a great loss of live with undead lurking for days, if not much longer. And then, there would be the investigation into whose fault it was.
Oh course, just witnessing what a mob of wights could do should scare the party. A Knowledge (local) check can reveal that they might be held accountable for releasing them (or at least be supjected to an investigation and may have to prove they were innocence). That may help to motivate them to move along.
My PC's failed to stop the cataclysm :)
Basically the wights came out so fast the Waterdeep city defenses could do little to stop it. They had thier hands full trying to hold back the tide while the city was evacuated. The pc's did fight 1 skirmish during thier retreat and only because they were the last line for a mass of citizens when the outriding wights caught up. As for the high level adventurers and the really high level NPC's. Well again there is only so much a high level adventurer can do against as gigantic mass of wights, those that stood and fell to them will be turned into even nastier surprises for later in the campaign. The high level npc's aka Blackstaff etc.. have setup a force dome which encumpases most of the city from North Ward to Castle Waterdeep, leaving dock ward and some of south ward available. Which I have decide has eathier worn them out or has drained them to the point that they can do little else until the threat is eliminated. "New Dawn" gave me this idea and it seems to work so far.
As for the city? well my PC's want to be able to play epic level when the campaign is done. So I've decided to give them the ultimate play ground, WaterDeep. They will be able to come back to the city and gain entrance to the sealed portion. I'm building a high level module for it and have plenty of idea's on how to go about it. What's interesting is every time I find more information about what's inside Waterdeep I find a new challenge for the PC's. One idea is that there are a couple of dragons in disguise in the city (with approval). These can easily be changed to dracoliches by this point. A massive caller in darkness (expanded psi handbook) works nicely as well. High level undead npc's with various templates work, I haven't decided on a pinnacle fight though, either a super undead controlling most of it or an item to destroy. The Apostle was killed in mine so it's out. But it's still far off at this point as they are now heading into SoLS.
I plan on introducing the epic PCs from the previous campaign in the current AoW campaign I'm running. It will be a great surprise for my players, who still speak fondly of their retired epic PCs.
When the wight catastrophe hits, the PCs' arena manager/sponsor (a former epic PC swashbuckler who is "retired" in Waterdeep) will contact his old friends (those other epic PCs) and beg for aid. Within a matter of moments, four epic NPCs will take the stage.
I can't wait. As the PCs are surrounded by mobs of wights (I envision certain scenes in Blackhawk Down), the PCs will hear a rumbling pounding down the street, and a 12' tall ironclad barbarian will plough through dozens of wights, cleaving through five in one swing. The cleric will use his permanent emanation (repulsion) to basically hurl wights away by the dozen with a thought (or perhaps a dramatic wave of the hand). The elf archwizard will fry scores with endless chain lightnings (or countless other spells). The gnome arcane trickster will hover unseen, saving lives and snipe/annihilating any boss baddies who take the stage.
The allies of those four epic PCs allow for a real reunion of sorts for the players. I could call dozens of former PCs and NPCs to the city and let them save the day while the PCs help.
Aside from that, as others have suggested, there are certainly forces in place that could undo the wight infestation within a matter of days. DMs could certainly call upon Halaster, Blackstaff Tower, Mirt and the Harpers, Durnan, the Paladinson and his bodyguards, perhaps even all of the Chosen if need be.
I also see potential to allow underground foes to come to the fore and lay claim to these wights. I'd like to toss in a necromancer at some point, one who actually tries directing these wights (or who perhaps challenges Bozal's power, should he live). I'd also like to work in some additional doom should the wights (and perhaps their necromancer lord) make their way to the City of the Dead. I wonder what new horrors I could unleash by tapping that resource.
I also like the idea of rendering Waterdeep/The Free City doomed, like in 28 Days Later. Sure, a wight infestation in such a densely populated area could lead to a total loss: a city of wights.
Wonder what Halaster's take would be on thousands of undead appearing in the city over his home....
For my campaign he's still out of the picture. His mind is so gone that he could care less what happens in the city above. He will have his hands busy keeping the undead out of Undermountain. As for Mirt, well doesn't he live in Castle Ward? Last time I checked that was a hop skip and a jump from the Field of Triumph, so his fate is unknown at the moment but I doubt he's dead. I'm setting up Castle Waterdeep as the entry point for adventurers and high level npc's to enter the wight part of the city so when the pc's arrive they will see it's no push over, many of those adventurer's will probrably be in the city and need help or have been turned into undead by that point.
I will probrably use him with the harpers as I've already set a Harper group after the pc's to bring them in for questioning. Basically there are two rules of law in my campaign. Local Waterdeep officials like Palidinson want to question the PC's directly and have had thier hands busy containing the wights to track them down, during the time the pc's finish AGoW local officials have investigated their identities and set a Harper group after them.
The chosen I'm planning to showcase for now will be Blackstaff and Larel (sp). When the pc's get to Longsaddle they might catch a glimpse of one of them leaving a meeting with Malchor Harpell, who is of course a Moonstar as well. The chosen in my campaign will have their hands full containing the problem and dealing with the multitude of other issue's facing Faerun at the moment, they won't be spoiling my setup ;). I also plan of making Celeste a song dragon Moonstar who will aid the PC's past the Harpers on their way to Longsaddle.
I'll be bringing out more chosen at the end of the adventure path as they will be the various wizards that "aid" Malchor on the astral plane as they keep Kyuss from getting out.