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What about Revenge of Falcon, Flames of Falcon those modules featured a inn ran by a hill giant.
I too hopes it Toee the best module ever.
Are they really revamping the old classics to 3.5 G &D series wow I'm speechless. Although I am still wondering to this day where our the module classics of our time, Where is our tomb of horrors our Lost caverns of Tsojcanth. All these writers all these submissions gotta be some gold in there.
Tomb of Horrors was redone and is on WotC website for free and downloadable. They also did White Plume Mountain.
FH
What about Revenge of Falcon, Flames of Falcon those modules featured a inn ran by a hill giant.
I too hopes it Toee the best module ever.
Are they really revamping the old classics to 3.5 G &D series wow I'm speechless. Although I am still wondering to this day where our the module classics of our time, Where is our tomb of horrors our Lost caverns of Tsojcanth. All these writers all these submissions gotta be some gold in there.Tomb of Horrors was redone and is on WotC website for free and downloadable. They also did White Plume Mountain.
FH
FH, I think you misunderstood oji040870. He asked for where the classic modules of present time are, I think.
But only time will tell which modules will be classics. And it will be much harder with all the competition nowadays to single out the classics.Stefan
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I am still betting on ToEE. First off Mona said it was never mentioned but greatly hinted at. This I would say is the comment about classic adventures. Other things to consider:
First Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain got redone. This tested the waters and showed that "yes virginia there really was a market for old modules converted to the new edition."
Then Ravenloft gets redone.
Then The DQ series gets a redo.Mona said there was an Inn that featured prominently in the material that he was working on.
So this leaves us with real options. A redo of ToEE and a redo of Undermountain.
The same reason for not doing ToEE can be made for not doing undermountain: The material of both has been touched on in recent years and there is no reason to go back:
For ToEE this is RttToEE and for Undermountain there is the description in the Waterdeep book and the web supplements that are being done by Matthew Sernett.
Going off the "its already been done" logic Undermountain has less of a chance than ToEE. Also, Undermountain is STILL being done. So there is no reason to do it.
I would agree that it was Castle Greyhawk if it was not for the Inn. The Inn is what makes me think that it is ToEE.
Mona admits he is a S U C K E R for classic (read Greyhawk/Gygaxian) material. His hint and the way it is phrased makes me think that in the previous version of what he was working on an Inn was a major part of the project. Castle Greyhawk in any of its incarnations does not fit this bill.
Most likely candidate: The Temple of Elemental Evil.
Further: The Temple is some of D&Ds most remarketable material. We have one Computer Games, two game books, and a novel, three of these products were written post 2000. While the original has never existed in this edition. I am pretty sure that the Temple of Elemental Evil is marketing gold because of its status next to GDQ and Ravenloft as one of THE modules of the shared D&D experience.
I rest my case.
In my own humble opinion Undermountain might still have a chance. Here is my evidence:
1. WotC produced about 24 updated rooms/encounters for Undermountains 1st level. Just enough to flesh out a good portion of the level.
2. WotC has not updated the aforementioned article since March of this year.
3. The main entrance into Undermountain is the Yawning Portal Inn in Waterdeep.
4. In the Waterdeep source book, they mention that two of Halaster's former apprentices, Trobriand and Muriel, have joined forces to create a school of magic on the 1st level of Undermountain, somewhere near the entrance from the Yawning Portal.
So my bit of speculation is that this could be an adventure involving Trobriand, Muriel, and their school of magic. All the other Undermountain updates could have been prep material for the DM in case he and his players want more Undermountain action.
Of course, I also tend to think my scenario is unlikely simple because of the also aforementioned preference Mr. Mona has for working with Greyhawk. No matter what the outcome though, I'm sure it will be a classic.
Those are good points.
Lets put it this way: I really want it to be Temple of Elemental Evil even though it might not be. I am finding enough "evidence" to back up what I hope it is.
I could be dead wrong.
Ok just watched the sneak peek video. Yeah, Castle Greyhawk for sure.
BUT: It did sound like they are very interested in revisiting some older material in the Expedition series... so I wouldn't put it past them.
ALSO: Expedition to Demonweb Pits does not seem to be the redo of DQ that I thought.
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What about Revenge of Falcon, Flames of Falcon those modules featured a inn ran by a hill giant.
I too hopes it Toee the best module ever.
Are they really revamping the old classics to 3.5 G &D series wow I'm speechless. Although I am still wondering to this day where our the module classics of our time, Where is our tomb of horrors our Lost caverns of Tsojcanth. All these writers all these submissions gotta be some gold in there.
3.5: Crypt of the Devil Lich, The Mysterious Tower, Iron Crypt of the Heretics, Red Hand of Doom, Rappan Athuk, Shackled City, Age of Worms, Lost City of Barakus, Aerie of the Crow God, Mud Sorcerers Tomb.
3.0: Wizards Amulet, Crucible of Freya, Tomb of Abysthor, Belly of the Beast, Of Sound Mind, NeMornens Vault, Queen of Lies, Rappan Athuk, Vault of Larin Karr, Demons and Devils, Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, Freeport Trilogy, The Harrowing, Dungeon of the Fire opal.
3.5: Crypt of the Devil Lich, The Mysterious Tower, Iron Crypt of the Heretics, Red Hand of Doom, Rappan Athuk, Shackled City, Age of Worms, Lost City of Barakus, Aerie of the Crow God, Mud Sorcerers Tomb.
3.0: Wizards Amulet, Crucible of Freya, Tomb of Abysthor, Belly of the Beast, Of Sound Mind, NeMornens Vault, Queen of Lies, Rappan Athuk, Vault of Larin Karr, Demons and Devils, Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury, Freeport Trilogy, The Harrowing, Dungeon of the Fire opal.
Yeah got'em all ; don't hold candle next to old classics of greyhawk
I think Rappan Athuk: Reloaded, Crypt of the Devil Lich, and Demons and Devils do.
I waas thinking along the lines of Shared Experience rather than originalty and coolness.
Perhaps, while drinking pina coladas in the local tiki bar with his chums, Eric Mona hatched a diobolical scheme that would insure that he is remembered for all time...He stood up on his stool and drunkenly announced " I, Eric Mona- vow to write my name on the moon!!!!"
SO his secret project is actually killing everyone who was at the bar that day...so that his actual plan can be worked on in secret.
Of course he now knows that I was at the bar on that fateful night- so I have made myself a target...Bring it Eric, bring it.
Perhaps, while drinking pina coladas in the local tiki bar with his chums, Eric Mona hatched a diobolical scheme that would insure that he is remembered for all time...He stood up on his stool and drunkenly announced " I, Eric Mona- vow to write my name on the moon!!!!"
SO his secret project is actually killing everyone who was at the bar that day...so that his actual plan can be worked on in secret.
Of course he now knows that I was at the bar on that fateful night- so I have made myself a target...Bring it Eric, bring it.
Uh-oh.
I was there too. I was the guy in the panda suit.
Wow! you play a mean Baralyka!
Uh-oh.I was there too. I was the guy in the panda suit.
A Giant panda sui...? *RARGH*
He stood up on his stool and drunkenly announced " I, Eric Mona- vow to write my name on the moon!!!!"
That reminds me of an episode of the cartoon series 'The Tick'. There was this villain which a chair for a head who wanted to laser etch his name onto the moon in state sized letters but he only got it partially accomplished before being foiled. I wish I could remember exactly what it wound up saying.
hahaha... i loved that show. my all-time favorite episode was when everyone in the room got his mind switched into someone else's body.
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hahaha... i loved that show. my all-time favorite episode was when everyone in the room got his mind switched into someone else's body.
Is that the one where Brainchild turned the Tick into a two-headed bluebird that could only speak high school level French? I LOVED the Tick, but that last season before it was canceled our local Fox kept moving it arround in different time-slots, so I didn't get to see it that often.
As a gag - carving your mark in the moon is much older then the tick. Cobra Commander tried to carve his face in the moon, I think it predates him too.
hahaha... i loved that show. my all-time favorite episode was when everyone in the room got his mind switched into someone else's body.Is that the one where Brainchild turned the Tick into a two-headed bluebird that could only speak high school level French? I LOVED the Tick, but that last season before it was canceled our local Fox kept moving it arround in different time-slots, so I didn't get to see it that often.
nope, it was the Mad Scientist Convention episode. :)
nope, it was the Mad Scientist Convention episode. :)hahaha... i loved that show. my all-time favorite episode was when everyone in the room got his mind switched into someone else's body.Is that the one where Brainchild turned the Tick into a two-headed bluebird that could only speak high school level French? I LOVED the Tick, but that last season before it was canceled our local Fox kept moving it arround in different time-slots, so I didn't get to see it that often.
Who can forget Tongue-Tongue? Or "Man-in-a-Can"?
"I can taste the floor!"
Erik,
I recently found out about this preview video via this thread on Dragonsfoot:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19542&postdays=0& postorder=asc&start=0
Please say it ain't so!
Authoring a product deliberately calculated to beat Gary Gygax's more authentic (and, let's face it, inevitably higher quality, unless the Nine Hells have frozen-over) version of the Castle to print is an affront of the highest (lowest?) order! That would be trying to steal both the thunder and the money from the very father of our game and using the fruits of his own creativity to do it. That is VILE!
No true Greyhawk fan could ever do such a thing for any amount of money or career advancement, nor any true lover of D&D.
Plus, nobody who wasn't a key part of the original campaign could even begin to do that project justice, anyway. The results would be shamefully unauthentic and clearly ring so.
For the love of Orcus, say it ain't so, man! If you have to do a Greyhawk product, let it be anything but this!
I very much need you to restore my faith in a man whose work I generally enjoy and the only way you can do that is by flatly (and truthfully) denying these rumors.
Erik,
I recently found out about this preview video via this thread on Dragonsfoot:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19542&postdays=0& postorder=asc&start=0
Please say it ain't so!
Authoring a product deliberately calculated to beat Gary Gygax's more authentic (and, let's face it, inevitably higher quality, unless the Nine Hells have frozen-over) version of the Castle to print is an affront of the highest (lowest?) order! That would be trying to steal both the thunder and the money from the very father of our game and using the fruits of his own creativity to do it. That is VILE!
No true Greyhawk fan could ever do such a thing for any amount of money or career advancement, nor any true lover of D&D.
Plus, nobody who wasn't a key part of the original campaign could even begin to do that project justice, anyway. The results would be shamefully unauthentic and clearly ring so.
For the love of Orcus, say it ain't so, man! If you have to do a Greyhawk product, let it be anything but this!
I very much need you to restore my faith in a man whose work I generally enjoy and the only way you can do that is by flatly (and truthfully) denying these rumors.
Why do all 'true greyhawk fans' have to be Gygax fans. I find a lot of his new work to be rubbish, though do see his old work as the building blocks for the game. Go for it Erik, I enjoy your work and would hate to see your talent refused access to such a great project.
Castle Greyhawk is only for Gygax? Fine, let him publish it again, cinema and terrible star trek jokes and all.
*Awaits 'Greyhawk Fans' angry retorts with much amusement.
Hey hey, easy. I'm a big Greyhawk fan and I wouldn't mind seeing something revisited by someone else. EGG is still one of my RPG heroes, but he is not the be-all and end-all of design. He is the innovator, and the genesis, but if someone else can do it right, i'm cool with it.
That's what's awesome about D&D- the shared world, collaborative effort to make good stuff. I trust Erik would do homage to him while making something good.
And, as a GH fan, I don't think it has to be EGG to be good. To be honest, some of the best GH stuff came from others, like Sean K Reynolds.
"And, as a GH fan, I don't think it has to be EGG to be good."
The Castle is Gary's baby, plain and simple. Sean Reynolds can do his own dungeon. So can Erik.
Not only that, but Gary is already in the middle of publishing the Castle on his own through Troll Lord Games. Trying to beat him to press at the last moment and take money out of the man's pocket with an unauthentic knockoff of the project he created and has lately labored so much on is low. Low as a damn dirty snake. It is just wrong.
"Castle Greyhawk is only for Gygax? Fine, let him publish it again, cinema and terrible star trek jokes and all."
Everybody with any knowledge of D&D knows that Gary had nothing to do with that project. Your statement is too ignorant to be meaningful.
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See your point, Yamo, but I disagree with your assertion that Erik Mona is scavenging...IMO he's been trying to revitalize a campaign world that he apparently has a lot of love for; through Dungeon, and if this prediction is true, then through Castle Greyhawk.
If you think that Greyhawk should hang there eternally in some kind of limbo, then fine. There's those who would disagree.
"If you think that Greyhawk should hang there eternally in some kind of limbo, then fine. There's those who would disagree."
Did you miss the part where Gygax is already working on his multi-volumn release of the Castle project? Or that the first volumn is already out?
Sure "Greyhawk" has become "Dunfalcon" due to legal requirements, but that is not exactly a lot of obfuscation. Hardly "limbo!"
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Did you miss the part where Gygax is already working on his multi-volumn release of the Castle project? Or that the first volumn is already out?
Sure "Greyhawk" has become "Dunfalcon" due to legal requirements, but that is not exactly a lot of obfuscation. Hardly "limbo!"
That's not limbo, no. The whole campaign has been in limbo for a long time, though, and Mr. Mona should be applauded for his efforts to revitalize it, not vilified.
One of the major aims of Dungeon, IMO, over the last few years has been the reclamation of the older fellows (myself included) with nostalgiac hearkenings to the games of yore. People who went to college, started families, "became a man and put aside childish things," as it were. Castle Greyhawk follows in that vein. It's just one more step in the right direction. And I don't think publishing Castle Greyhawk will exactly STOP anyone from running down "DUNFALCON," any more than Wizards' publishing of THE SUNLESS CITADEL stopped ME from buying GARY GYGAX'S NECROPOLIS or THE LOST CITY OF GAXMOOR. If anything, it will whet the appetite.But to leave the ship floundering in the waves, that way lies peril.
But to leave the ship floundering in the waves, that way lies peril.
Understand: I love Erik's Greyhawk work. I love the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (see my detailed, praiseful review at RPG.Net if you like) and I love the way he's gotten things like Rob Kuntz's Maure Castle into print.
I'm just thinking of Gary here. None of us would be playing today if it wasn't for him and I think he deserves better than to have his livelihood targeted like this by releasing a competing version of the same project around the same time.
If a WotC Castle Greyhawk book making Y amount of money means Gary making X - Y amount of money on his version, than I am against that. More respect ought to be shown to man who came up with the material in the first place.
So Erik should do Greyhawk, but if he wants to do a dungeon, he ought to do his own and not try to swoop in and "scoop" Mr. Gygax. Why be so crass when there's still a whole Flanaess out there to explore?
Yamo, where have you been, man? You disappear from these boards for months and then return just to start a flame war against Erik? Dude, what's your agenda?
Erik loves Greyhawk and has done more than anybody to breathe life into it in many years. The fact that we have seen more and more GH content in Dungeon in recent years is thanks to him. Now, if WotC finally listens to the cries of 'Hawkers everywhere thanks to the influence of Erik Mona and finally starts publishing GH stuff again, where is the problem in that?
You should be applauding his efforts not labeling him as a low life villain trying to undercut Gary Gygax and beat him to the punch. I'm not a "fanboy" of Erik's. I just appreciate all of his hard work to keep the setting I love breathing.
Edit: Sorry, Yamo. I see that you do appreciate Erik's work.
I just think you may be jumping Erik's case prematurely.
"Castle Greyhawk is only for Gygax? Fine, let him publish it again, cinema and terrible star trek jokes and all."
Everybody with any knowledge of D&D knows that Gary had nothing to do with that project. Your statement is too ignorant to be meaningful.
I'd love to bite, but your complaints seem to speak volumes about any possible retort.
There is really no need for flaming Erik. The only thing that links Gary's CG and Canon CG now is a name, period. After the 2nd Ed version they have severed the link with Gary, even his CZ coming out wont be set in Greyhawk, why not flame him for selling out? Surely if he was the only one that could do it justice WotC would've picked him up as a freelancer.
Let Erik do his work in peace, he'll do a good job of it. I understand that the only way that Gygaxians will be happy with this is if Gary does it himself, and if he had the talent he'd get picked up and paid appropriately for it.
I can see people getting angry over that last comment, but it'd make sense wouldn't it?
Actually, I tend to agree somewhat with Yamo, though with considerably less vehemence. I see his point about authenticity, and question the timing of the speculated release. I am still filled with anger and revulsion about the way EGG was bullied out of his own company and bereft of something that he virtually created out of whole cloth.
However:
1) We have been promised Castle Greyhawk by EGG for over two decades, as I recall. How much longer must we wait? There is something to be said for striking while the iron is hot;
2) Were it not for Erik and his passion for Greyhawk--would the possibility of a product like Castle Greyhawk (and the potential for future products that it promises) even be possible? I think not;
3) Erik has released some great work that stands on its own. Is it EGG? No. Is it great? I would say so. I trust him as much as I trusted Carl Sargeant, at least.
Bottom line: this makes me uneasy, sure. But the Greyhawk fan in me tells me that this is a good thing.
I very much need you to restore my faith in a man whose work I generally enjoy and the only way you can do that is by flatly (and truthfully) denying these rumors.
i wouldn't expect much of a response until WotC makes an official statement, or it gets leaked. Erik most likely signed an NDA, which means commenting before the proper time would get him into more than a little trouble...
Actually, I tend to agree somewhat with Yamo, though with considerably less vehemence. I see his point about authenticity, and question the timing of the speculated release. I am still filled with anger and revulsion about the way EGG was bullied out of his own company and bereft of something that he virtually created out of whole cloth.
However:
1) We have been promised Castle Greyhawk by EGG for over two decades, as I recall. How much longer must we wait? There is something to be said for striking while the iron is hot;2) Were it not for Erik and his passion for Greyhawk--would the possibility of a product like Castle Greyhawk (and the potential for future products that it promises) even be possible? I think not;
3) Erik has released some great work that stands on its own. Is it EGG? No. Is it great? I would say so. I trust him as much as I trusted Carl Sargeant, at least.
Bottom line: this makes me uneasy, sure. But the Greyhawk fan in me tells me that this is a good thing.
These arguments are completely valid, and I agree that Castle Greyhawk is EGG's baby. But I also wonder if he's ever submitted anything or been approached by WotC to produce anything for them. Without such information I think that screaming 'injustice' at WotC is pretty pointless.
In the end though, the EGG fans will buy CZ. Other fans will buy CG. Some people will buy both. I have no great doubt in my mind that the release of these two products will following along similar lines of two companies releasing Complete Fighter books with completely different material in them. Both will sell for different reasons.
Wotc putting out Castle Greyhawk around the same time the lower levels of Castle Zagyg hits the shelves is a move clearly intended to undercut Gygax, something meant to steal away the man's glory at the very moment he takes his victory lap. But then, who can blame them? Wizards is a business and they can smell money a mile away. Pretty lousy though that the ONLY Greyhawk product of the last five years should represent an IP tug of war.
It's like the child who has everything. Suddenly one of his friends picks up a toy he hasn't played with for months (or in this case, years), and the child screams, "Give it back! It's mine!"
Nonetheless, I can see Erik Mona jumping on this project since he loves Greyhawk, but he must also realize the flak he's gonna take for pulling the rug out from under the man who created Greyhawk in the first place. And that's just not cool. I would really like to think the secret project he's been working on is a Greyhawk sourcebook, something people have been clamoring for for quite a while, but something tells me it's gonna be that damn castle.
Despite the amazing job I'm sure you will do on the project (I love almost everything you've worked on), you're gonna get roasted for this, Erik.
Just keep that in mind.
Erik Mona I been playing in Greyhawk since like 1981. I love it as much as you. You pick it up dusted it off and polished it up added flavor and texture thank you.
Can't wait.
I'm just thinking of Gary here. None of us would be playing today if it wasn't for him and I think he deserves better than to have his livelihood targeted like this by releasing a competing version of the same project around the same time.If a WotC Castle Greyhawk book making Y amount of money means Gary making X - Y amount of money on his version, than I am against that. More respect ought to be shown to man who came up with the material in the first place.
So Erik should do Greyhawk, but if he wants to do a dungeon, he ought to do his own and not try to swoop in and "scoop" Mr. Gygax. Why be so crass when there's still a whole Flanaess out there to explore?
If Expedition to Castle Greyhawk will influence the sales of CZ at all I think it will help Gary to sell more copies of Castle Zagyg. WotC's marketing will raise the awaraness that something called Greyhawk still exists.
I, for one, am extremely happy to get a version of this Classic Dungeon penned by Mr. Mona. The way EGG tends to write his products today is simply not my cup of tea. Yggsburgh bored me to death. It is detailed, but uninspired.
Also you mustn't forget that Rob Kuntz is the lead designer of CZ, now (IIRC). Once more EGG stamps his name on a product he didn't write himself.
Furthermore, Erik Mona is sure to include all the fascinating pieces of Greyhawk canon/lore that I would really like to see. Don't forget: EGG's original dungeon was placed on a map of Northern America, next to the Great lakes, if memory serves.
Another thing: I was extremely disappointed when I found out that CZ would be published in multiple volumes over the course of several years. That, combined with the fact that EGG's hyping of the vaporware Castle Greyhawk during the 1980s reached Siembieda-like dimensions somewhat lessens my sympathy for this perceived "ripping off". And, as I said before, I think that CZ sales will profit from the situation, anyway.
I think those who "really love" Greyhawk had best be careful lest the pressure on a fellow fan to be our Lawful Good Messiah gets a bit much and he decides not to bother any more.
I think those who "really love" Greyhawk had best be careful lest the pressure on a fellow fan to be our Lawful Good Messiah gets a bit much and he decides not to bother any more.
Excellent point, Sad Genius.
Of course, we're all really making a big presumption that we're right that it IS Castle Greyhawk in the first place, hmm? I recognize that this was mentioned above, but it's a really salient point and bears repeating.
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A Greyhawk parable-
A small village was suffering from famine and blight, the people were hungry, their wells were fouled, their bodies alight with fever and want. Lo from different directions came two priests into the village, from the east came a cleric of Pholtus, from the west came cleric of Rao.
As they passed through the village each called upon the powers their dieties provided... Diseases were driven from the sick, wounds were healed, wells were purified, mana appeared to nourish the weakened frames of those who suffered. The village was mended whole thanks to the efforts of the priests who worked in different directions to the heart of the community.
In thanks, the healed village prepared a ceremony to honor the priests. The Cleric of Rao smiled and embraced the townsfolk, enjoying the companionship and fellowship of a calmed and happy people. The Cleric of Pholtus growled that he had to share his efforts with a pagan priest and that he would have healed the whole village in the name of the Blinding Light and that the village should accept the One True Path in their thanks.
The people of the town smiled and continued to offer praise and thanks to the two priests... but chairs were scooted a bit closer to the Priest of Rao. In the morning, the Cleric of Pholtus found that the people of the town had packed him a hearty lunch for him to enjoy on the road out of town. They wished him safe travel on his trip.
The moral: Don't be a d!ck and people like to have you around longer.
Sorry, but the criticism is valid. Of all the Greyhawk products they could have commissioned (of which their are hundreds), they had to settle on the very thing Gygax is working on? That's spite and greed and there's no other way to spin it. Maybe Mona is the innocent in this equation, but he's certainly going to have to go a long way with this work to make up for his company's lousy timing and reprehensible grab at the spotlight. I just hope Gary sticks to his guns and puts out Zagyg despite this affront. At this point, I'd be pretty miffed at Wizards.
This is all being hashed out all over the various Greyhawk "geek" boards and I personally think it is great if WotC has come to the realization that adventures can make a decent amount of money AND Greyhawk adventures can make a decent amount of money (Thank you AP's one and two).
Gary doesn't own the license to Greyhawk, he can't make a Castle Greyhawk product, and he has no desire to rehash his old take on Castle Greyhawk. See various message board threads.
The simple fact of the matter is that Castle Zagyg is not Castle Greyhawk and Gary isn't writing it but helping to develop it. Rob Kuntz dropped out of it specifically because Gary didn't have any desire to stay true to the old Castle and because Rob felt that this was the wrong direction to take.
The question is "Who can write their way out of a wet paper bag?" It certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility that both books end up being worth a few hard earned dineros.
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This is my take... IF the project is Castle Greyhawk... which we've I think established doesn't really have an "inn" featured prominently...
1) Erik is the most prominent proponent that Greyhawk has out there who is in ANY position to promote the World of Greyhawk as it exists now. We owe him thanks all the time for bringing the classic material back into the mainstream through stuff like Core Beliefs and -hell- EVERYTHING.
2) Gary is still putting out Castle Zagyg (or Zagig or however it's spelled now). Nothing is affecting that release here.
3) IF (IF!) this is Castle Greyhawk, then yes, WotC is putting it out in a ploy to pull some revenue from Gygax. That's just good business.
BUT:
If the "Evil Corporation" is going to do this, would you rather have Erik "Mona-kainen" on board helming it in a respectful and knowledgable way? Or would you rather someone else did it? Because I guarantee you that if Erik had passed on taking it, then SOMEONE else would have been pulled in. And it would not have been Gary. (Too many legal issues that don't need to be opened up, etc)
And what if it ISN'T Castle Greyhawk?
I checked out the preview slide. It's definitely Mordenkainen. And he's definitely scrying on some castle. But honestly, it could be ANYWHERE.
And in my opinion, it looks more like cover art for a Sourcebook, rather than an Adventure. I mean, look at the covers for adventures that they have out there. Adventures need to have ACTION splattering all over their cover art! A group of adventurers bringing the pain to some big bad evil MF! Swords! Spells! Impending Catastrophe that can only be staved off by these brave few!!
Not misty ruins even further removed from the viewer because we're watching a Wizard who is watching them. I mean, there's not even a rogue in the back with a sneaky look on his face like he's going to stab Mr. Wizard in the back. Where's the "Adventure" here?
Don't get me wrong, the art looks Absolutely Astounding! As soon as the art's online, it's going straight to my Wallpaper.
I just wouldn't bet on it being a dungeon delve. But for a campaign sourcebook? HELL YES! An Iconic Wizard vigilantly watching a mysterious castle, half hidden in mists? It speaks to a much larger world that the book will deliver to you. HELL YES. THAT makes sense to me...
So what if it IS the long-awaited, much-clammored for Greyhawk Campaign Setting that we've been telling WotC to put out for the last 5 years?
Well, then, maybe the ire we've rashly directed at WotC (and at Erik by proxy) is misplaced. Because any release that comes out at the same time as Castle Zagig that promotes the World of Greyhawk is going to HELP ol' EGG's book sell.
That's my take on it, anyway.
Thanks Erik. For whatever it is, because you're bringing us Greyhawk. From WotC no less. Congratulations, man. And Best of luck in completing your Project. Whatever it is. :)
--FF
CraigClark,
You're splitting hairs, and badly at that. Gygax still owns enough of the license through his novels to make Zagyg as genuine as it could be. It's not a sourcebook, it's a castle, and he doesn't need to have everything in Greyhawk at his beck and call to recreate his fabled adventure, however varied it may be in the final tally.
Besides, the authenticity of Gygax's work isn't in question here, you're just blowing smoke to distract from a rude gesture on the part of Wizards, who, as it was mentioned before, have had the oppotunity to produce Greyhawk material at any time over the last six years but chose this moment to steal the spotlight from the guy who made it all happen.
But I guess that's par for the course for Gary, to be undercut and have what he loves taken away from him. Like others, I just hope he finishes the series so we can enjoy one last go round with the old master.
WotC's trying to undercut Gary?
Yes, a multi-million dollar international company is releasing a single product to attempt to undercut the income of a single company on a single adventure.
Give me a break. That is so ridiculous.
As I said before, I have no doubt the final product from Erik Mona will be superb, whatever it may be, but in the case of Castle Greyhawk, it's not a question of whether he can do it (and do it well), but whether he should do it at all.
At this point my questions would be: When asked to do it, did Erik point out the fact that Gygax is currently working on Castle Zagyg and that development of another Castle Greyhawk would pull revenue away from the creator of D&D? Did he have any hesitation whatsoever in regards to working on this project?
I'm sure Erik saw this project as a necessary step to get Greyhawk back in the limelight, but at the same time he must have realized that his devotion to working on the setting would ultimately hurt the guy who created it.
If it is an "Expedition to..." book, then I hope that Castle Greyhawk turns out to be one of those sourcebook adventures that FR is currently enjoying. I know Mona will do his best to make sure every last bit of lore is packed into the adventure, so maybe that will be the saving grace of this work.
"So what if it IS the long-awaited, much-clammored for Greyhawk Campaign Setting that we've been telling WotC to put out for the last 5 years?"
That's the best possible outcome of all this, and the one I'm hoping for.
Wow, it's amazing how far speculation can go. Let's see how much unconfirmed material we have invested into one debate.
1. We have no idea what Erik is actually working on
2. We have no idea if the Greyhawk product in the preview session is actually Expedition to Castle Greyhawk or a Greyhawk Campaign Setting supplement
As such, I think it's stupid and a waste of time to have a heated debate about whether Erik's work on a Castle Greyhawk adventure module/box set, which is pure speculation, to be published by WotC is ethical in terms of competing with the setting and game's creator who is [slowly] developing a third-party product that is symbolically and not actually the same product and is composed of several products rather than a single product.
It really looks like Mordy looking at Castle Greyhawk, as it was depicted in the 2nd Ed Adventure. It fits in with WotCs new line "Expedition to...", of which Castle Ravenloft is the first to be published.
I would like a GH Campaign Setting more, but as was pointed out on these boards several times, this is highly unlikely.
Stefan