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Greetings, fellow adventures! Our gaming group is currently running a Greyhawk Pathfinder game every second (or third) Sunday At Game Empire in Pasadena. We usually start around 1030am and run until 4 or 5pm. We're looking for emotionally mature players that interact well with others and think outside the box when it comes to problem solving. This is a fun, carefree campaign that isn't necessarily hack and slash, but there will be enough combat to go around for those who love to roll. The PCs are currently exploring the frigid Barrier Peaks, fighting against a brutal winter, delving into abandoned mining colonies, and making furry friends along the way! The party is currently comprised of druid, barbarian, and oracle. Current level is 2nd. Expect to level up every other session. This campaign will eventually employ mythic tiers and, with luck, should run 20 levels. If interested, contact jokamachi@hotmail.com - Looking forward to hearing from you.


I see two forces at work since the announcement and release of 4e:

Group One - Gamers who, at some point in the process, have embraced the idea of 4e. They like the game and have a hard time understanding why others don't like it as much as they do. When someone voices disdain for 4e, they demand that the poster qualify his or her feelings. If the poster supports his opinion, he's invariably shouted down with cries of "you obviously haven't played it... " or "you haven't really given it a chance" or "your opinion is flawed and therefore irrelevant." This group has even launched a massive charm offensive in the days following 4e's release, especially now that Necro has opted out and Pathfinder is picking up steam. Bad blood seems to be brewing within this group. I have even noticed that slightly critical comments made about 4e on the wizards boards are met with swift and sharp comments from the moderators. Feels like they're circling the wagons.

Group Two - Gamers who, for one reason or another, have decided not to pursue 4e as their primary game of choice. Their decision has isolated them somehwhat, especially to communities that embrace the OGL. While not eager to see the collapse of Wotc, this group doesn't see a need to support 4e in order to preserve the D&D brand. I suppose I fit into this group more than the second one.

More and more 4e's release is feeling like the reformation, with players choosing up sides based on what edition they prefer. Sure, it's no different than any other edition war over the years, but I've never remembered it being this contentious. Maybe I'm not really paying attention anymore due to my age and responsibilities, but it feels different. The boards feel different. Comments feel different. People seem to have made their choices and now the separate camps have fortified their outer perimeters.

Does that bode well for the game? To behonest, I'm not sure, but the blowback from 4e has been fierce and something tells me this debate will only continue to fester til things go from bad to worse.


Seeing how I have already dumped my playetester's comp. copy of the 4e PhB into the rubbish bin, I would be happy to hear it's being released soon.


Well?


That is, other than the Savage Tide. What will will see on Greyhawk in the last couple issues?


Will we see a final installment to Maure Castle before Dungeon folds??


I had quite a few Wotc products on my shopping list this year. That number just dropped to zero.


So be it. So do any of you apologists know when the last official publication of Dungeon will take place? Will the finale of Savage Tide appear in hard copy, or should I just burn what issues I have?

F***ing lame, this is.


If this was one of the exciting new developments you were talking about, Erik, then you can cram it with walnuts.


And you know it, Erik. Did you even bother to stand up and fight for the survival of these magazines, or did you roll over? Please share as I'm sure many would like to know how their favorite gaming mags just became some crap download.


Uh.... duh.... so.... ummmm.... uh..... duh.... announcement?


Read all the teasers on the EnWorld boards. What's the big announcement? Is it Greyhawk related?


Thanks!


Howdy, all,

I've been prepping for this module and noticed that the number of cultists in the Temple of Hextor is not listed. How many are there?

Thanks,

jokamachi


Heh. At long last the wait is over. Both Primus and this book will suck.


Sorry, but the criticism is valid. Of all the Greyhawk products they could have commissioned (of which their are hundreds), they had to settle on the very thing Gygax is working on? That's spite and greed and there's no other way to spin it. Maybe Mona is the innocent in this equation, but he's certainly going to have to go a long way with this work to make up for his company's lousy timing and reprehensible grab at the spotlight. I just hope Gary sticks to his guns and puts out Zagyg despite this affront. At this point, I'd be pretty miffed at Wizards.


At this point, I think I would settle for an adventure centered around abalone.


Since those in the know are all too content to tease us on this, how about telling us who Erik's working with on the project? Surely that can't be classified.


Frankly speaking, 'neat' does not invoke images of Greyhawk, so I think we can scratch that one off the list.


So there's been some talk and speculation about your latest secret project, Erik. Inquiring minds want to know what's going on, but I imagine you'll keep it under wraps until the appointed time and place. Some seem to think it's Greyhawk related, and while I am one of the faithful hoping that's true, I've decided to wait patiently.

Ok, enough waiting.

Come on, man! Throw us a bone! Let slip the bloodhounds of curiosity!


Greyhawk remains in limbo, its liberation in doubt. I now see Greyhawk faithful buying up Eberron books and arguing over the virtues of warforged.

Dark times, indeed.


My first experience with D&D was the Steading of the Hill Giant Chief. I was about ten years old, had a thin grasp of the rules, and was utterly absorbed by AD&D and all it had to offer. I left the game in 85' to chase girls, start college, and live overseas, but I finally returned to the fold in 2000. It was worth the wait, though, especially since I had fifteen years of material to catch up on.

Great game. Great campaign. Can't wait to run it for my players.


The fact that Wil bowed due in part to the criticism he received here does not make the critical posters involved any worse (or better) for doing so. Nor do any apologies on the part of the posters; opinions will be expressed, people. Get over it. Wil simply chose to see the wisdom in what was expressed here and acted accordingly.


While the quality of Wil's writing was actually pretty decent, it simply had nothing to do with D&D, and Wil knew that. By quitting this assignment, he finally acknowledged what we had been saying all along; Wil Save was never about D&D. Now, if he had really pursued a genuine D&D column... well, that would have been different, but he just couldn't stop talking about himself (and whatever non-D&D topic flew across his radar), and frankly that gets old after a while.

In any case, I look forward to seeing what Mr. Mona will fill that space with.

Personally, I would like to see something devoted to Greyhawk. More critical threats? Maps? Ancient lore?

Surprise us, but make sure it releates to the subject.


Behold the power of positive thinking! And kudos to Wil for bowing out graciously. Now, if we could only work the same sort of magic on Eberron...


6pakofdwarves wrote:
So that would indicate that he has identified the audience, as it would seem this thread and increased sales verifies.

Are you trying to say that Wil Save is responsible for increased sales? Wow, give me some of whatever it is that you're smoking.


Oh joy, now I get to read about Wil running Orc and pie adventures. When will this joke of a column end? Go grovel at the feet of Steve jackson, Wil, and kindly get the hell out of Dungeon.


Someone wanna clue me in as to where Diamond lake is located?


Yeah, he loves it so much he just can't bring himself to play the game. Guess he's too busy thinking up new ways not to talk about it in his so-called D&D column.


Yeah, and it only took him, what, a year and four hundred critical posts to figure it out? What a coincidence.


Zherog wrote:

So - who's read Wil Save this month? :smirk: He even talks about D&D.

I thought it was an interesting read myself.

Actually, he name dropped Hommlet and then spent the rest of the aricle discussing the virtues of LARPing; which to say, no, he didn't talk about D&D whatsoever.

So we're left with another article in which Wheaton dodges the one responsibility he was entrusted with.

But then, most of us are used to it by now...


Depressing, simply depressing...

and yet, genuinely funny.


Ach. Everyone of these "articles" gets worse than the last.

Let's see, in his last column, Will barely addressed gaming whatsoever, but he did manage to exorcise some of his childhood/adult demons by confronting them head on. Since he is still carrying around that baggage of having been Wesley on Star Trek, I suspect this won't be the only time we are treated to his anxieties over career choices, but let's face it, folks: the article had little to almost no redeeming value for gamers, that is unless you yourself were a despised child-star. The most troubling thing is that this doesn't seem to register with Wil at all; he seems more than content to unleash his life story repeatedly upon the unfortunate soul that happens to wander into his part of the magazine.

But this month, we get less Star Trek and more excerpts from Wil's convention experiences. In his latest installment, Wil blurs the lines between fantasy and reality as the gaming convention he attends becomes his own private dungeon with personalized calling cards meant to make him the start once again...

"Wil Wheaton! That's me!"

Now, hearing about someone's good time is all well and fine in a vicarious I-had-to-work-this-weekend-anyway kind of way, but only if it has something else to convey to the reader, something other than "go out and have a good time... it's really fun!" But all we get from Wil is yet another attempt to sell gaming to gamers in a gaming magazine. Does he perhaps think we read Dungeon only for the editiorials? Serioously, Erik, we've already bought the magazine, do we really need to be hustled by the new kid on the block?

This is a magazine for gamers written by gamers, Wil. Not one of us needs to be reminded that conventions are fun, nor do we need to be reminded that playing D&D evokes memories of childhood. These are universally-shared experiences and you speak of them as if you just uncovered these wonderful facts all by yourself.

So, to sum up: Wil Save is worse than Jar-jar. At least he got shelved after one installment.


I understand what you're trying to say, but it becomes harder and harder to avoid commenting on Wil Wheaton the person when the column's author puts so much of his personal life on the front burner for all to see. Frankly, I would be persuaded to avoid personal comments if Wil didn't invite these kinds of responses in the first place.

When you comment about all the crap you've received from disgruntled gamers who never liked your t.v. personality, how is that not inviting criticism upon yourself? When you whine about how hard it is to "fit in" because you're some famous t.v. star (at least in your own mind), how is that not painting a bullseye on your forehead? When you try to pass yourself off as one of the guys while at the same time reminding people of how unique you are beacuse of your fame, how does that NOT attract the ire of those reading the column?

These are some things to think about when considering the responses to Wil Save.

All in all, it's a bad column, folks, and it's only getting worse. If Wil doesn't like the feedback he's getting now, just wait til we're knee-deep in his articles. I said before that I could weather the nonsense Wil is putting in his column, but now I'm starting to reconsider.

But then, who knows, maybe he'll put something really useful in there that we could all benefit from...

like how to speak Klingon while gaming.


Not shirking, just waiting for the next installment so I'll have new material to work with. Then again, the only new thing about the column will most likely be the number affixed to the heading.

No, I take that back. The column has indeed been changing, but for the worse. Who knows, if we're lucky, maybe next week we'll get backstage glimpse of The Next Generation and Wesley's first experience with Romulan ale.

Can't wait.


A perfect summation of the shortcomings and failure of Wil Save.

All well said, Samantha.


Wil Save is only one weak link in an otherwise strong chain of a excellent publication. If a significant portion of the magazine were crap, then I'd have more reason to cancel my subscription. But since that's not the case, I suppose I can live with Wil Save for the time being; one's gotta have something to winge about.

Still, I think the idea of opening the column up to other contributors is a good idea.


Well, if that's all Wil Save is meant to be, then why not have rotating contributors instead of a former t.v. child star with no gaming credits to his name? Frankly, I'd like to hear from gaming designers and other significant faces in the industry. What does Andy Collins do in his games? What about Kuntz? What real-life/D&D cross-over experiences does Monte have to share? There are so many other people out there that I would rather hear from than Wil. Seems like the column is a great chance being squandered on mediocrity.


I have yet to be wowed by Wil's column. I guess it's due to the fact that his experiences are pretty similar to my own and they lack the novelty they otherwise have for younger gamers.

I'm willing to support it for a few more installmets, though. Everything needs a while to fully germinate. Hey, every first season of a Star Trek series usually sucks, too ('cept for the first, no offense, Wil).


I'm curious to know whether any of the 3e wotc modules will be placed on the upcoming Greyhawk maps, particularly the Asharladon trilogy. Thanks in advance.

LN