I'm not sure if I should include the action point system in my running SCAP game. Do you like it and how does it change the game?
Which system is the best, the one from Eberron, the DMG2 etc?
Also, how should I explain the sudden usability of the points in-game?
I'm considering adding them on a case-by-case basis, rather than a points-per-level formula, after reading another thread here on the boards. The poster mentioned that he hands them out to players and NPCs whenever it would really enhance the cinematic quality of the game, as determined by the DM. Also, the players got them every time he handed them out to a foe. That sounds like a good system to me, and I might implement it in the future. But, like the OP, I'm interested in hearing what other think/feel about action points.
I'm not sure if I should include the action point system in my running SCAP game. Do you like it and how does it change the game?
I like them, since they help mitigate the effects of horrible luck, but the 5 + 1/2 character level per level formula gives characters WAY too many of them. I also dislike the "use 'em or lose 'em" rule (i.e., action points don't carry over to the next level, so players tend to start spending them like crazy as they near the next level-up).
I'd recommend giving PCs 2 action points per level, and allowing them to save those points up. That way, they'll be used only when they're really needed.
The action point system is great. It gives heroes some extra tools to allow them to be heroic. The amount you get can be both good and bad. For spell casters, they go through them like water (retain spells, metamagic feats etc). The fighter types typically use them when things are going bad (extra attacks or a Will save sort of thing). I'm currently playing in the SCAP and we have used action points the whole time. There have been times where the action points have totally saved us. I have also had levels where I couldn't wait for my next level because I was out of action points. I guess it depends on the type of game. Action points and plenty of them allow you to more regularly throw tough challenges at a group.
I have allowed my players to use them in my ongoing Age of Worms campaign, and have been fairly pleased with the result.
As a DM, I have never been fond of PC death, and had sometimes gone a ways out of my way to fudge results in order to maintain player continuity. I would then begin to feel like I was decreasing player motivation, and giving them too much latitude to take the challenges their characters were taking for granted. At that point I would stop fudging for a while, and character death rates would rise. It became a much larger problem when I ran SCAP at higher levels due to the types of challenges they were meeting and the number of "save or die" effects the game itself brings to the table at higher levels.
With all of these things in mind, I began to use Action Points from Ebberron in my Age of Worms Greyhawk game. I immediatly felt better, because in the situations I would have fudged, the players all of a sudden had control over whether they wanted the help or not. I stopped fudging, and the players had less of a feeling that one bad die roll in one game suddenly ended their hard work they had put into their character over several chapters, and everyone felt better about the situation. I still have had character deaths, the Age of Worms is a tough campaign, but the players have responded better when it has happened.
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I've been using the Action Point system from Unearthed Arcana, and it has gone very well indeed!
I only awarded action points when the players contributed something to the game, like painting up a miniature, writing up some campaign background, etc., and I let them bank them from level to level.
My players are less "paranoid" about being daring about their characters' actions, and it avoids the single "bad dice roll of death" issue.
In future I'll be giving out 1 action point per character level to give out more.
I'm currently running an Eberron game, and so far the action point system, while a welcome addition by most of my players, has been a rather lackluster thing.
Mind you, it's not because it's not useful. I love the system, and I fully intend to expand on it a bit by doing things like making certain feats a standard option (like spontaneous addition of metamagic).
Most of my group (including me) just keeps forgetting to use them, and the one in my group that doesn't forget actively avoids using them. But then, this person goes out of their way to resist and gripe about anything new (like 3.0 and 3.5 D&D).
I LOVE action points!
I'm using them in SCAP and don't think my players would have made it to 3rd level without them.
I hand out the suggest 5 + 1/2 level and let them carry over and stack up. I use the UA rules here:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/actionPoints.htm
A couple of added uses I use:
-Avoid a critical fumble.
-Allow OOC table talk to one other person at the table (i.e. ask for advice on a tactic or merely what to do in general, even from me, the DM.) I even allow this for when you need to tell Player B to move his character 5 foot after he casts so your character can run away and not die. (Helps when you have the player who is less than aware of the dire situation).
I also award them for extra beyond the table contributions, like bringing a miniature, supplying artwork, etc.
As for the sudden usability in game for you, I would just tell them that they've reached high enough level to earn a "break" and this should help them complete the campaign with their current characters.
good luck!
-c
WOW, overwhelming positive feedback on action points. I just had an idea: I don't like how many Action points the players get in Eberron or UA. I was also thinking of giving them 1 per level and the ability to increase their number by giving their characters depth (great suggestion!). But now how about this different solution: Every character has one Action point per day?
I love 'em. We use the UA version, and give out as many points as they suggest, and I haven't seen them abused or causing any problems.
I give my BBEG a few of their own, which also makes for entertaining situations. :)
I haven't used them yet, but do plan on it. Somebody, I think on the wizards board, uses them so that the DM gets none to start, but everytime a player uses one, the DM gets a point to use that session.
I kind of like this idea of allowing the DM to use one after the players use one. That sounds bwa-ha-ha nasty :)
So far I'm using Eberron's Action point system to the letter, but I might expand it and allow points to be spent for other things, like those mentioned in Monte Cook's system.
http://www.montecook.com/diary14.html
Also, I'm toying with the idea of allowing action points to be spent after the roll. Normally when using an action point to increase a d20 roll, you must spend the action point before the roll, and roll them at the same time, then add them together (so you get 1d20 + whatever your action point gives you, usually a d6). I'm considering allowing players to spend two action points to roll after the d20 roll is determined, and give them a roll of one die size higher (d6 chganges to d8) or maybe make it d6+2.
I haven't used them yet, but do plan on it. Somebody, I think on the wizards board, uses them so that the DM gets none to start, but everytime a player uses one, the DM gets a point to use that session.
So far I'm using Eberron's Action point system to the letter, but I might expand it and allow points to be spent for other things, like those mentioned in Monte Cook's system.
http://www.montecook.com/diary14.html
Also, I'm toying with the idea of allowing action points to be spent after the roll. Normally when using an action point to increase a d20 roll, you must spend the action point before the roll, and roll them at the same time, then add them together (so you get 1d20 + whatever your action point gives you, usually a d6).
Actually, the ECS states that you may spend an action point to modify a d20 roll after you make the roll, but must make the choice before the DM reveals the success or failure of the original roll.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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I've been using hero points/action points since before either the Unearthed Arcana rules or the Eberron Campaign setting came out. I had read somewhere (perhaps Dragon magazine) about one of the designer's homebrew in which they used Hero Points. With out clear rules I mocked up somthing for my own game similar to Force Points in d20 Star Wars. As soon as I saw the rules in UA and the ECS I switched. Action Points offered more versitility than my simple homebrew rules had.
In my current Eberron game I use the Eberron Rules for acquiring Action Points and use both rulesets (UA and ECS) for what you can do with them.
Both Hero points and Action Points have been such a boon to the game adding the cinematic element that it is unlikely I will go back to playing with out them.
My biggest problem in one of my mate's Eberron campaigns is remembering to use the action points I've got. I'm 4th-level, and have spent a total of 1 action point. I think he plans to run Red Hand of Doom soon, so my action point total should get a real workout.
I also play an artificer in an Ebberron game, and for that class, action points are essential. Since almost all of the infusions that you can cast require minutes to use, but with the use of an action point can be reduced to a standard action, I end up using every one of mine every level.
Our circle uses action points in all of our campaigns. I implemented a house rule in my campaign in which you can only implement on type of use of action points as per the options in Unearthed Arcana (also on d20srd.org) per session. This forces players to not just use action points as mundane "bail out" points ("Oh, I rolled crappy, let me bail myself out with an action point") to augment rolls, but to use them to augment rolls for those desperate, high-action, chips-are-down moments. It also encourages the players to explore the other options.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I've played with an action point variant, and the biggest issue I encountered was dog-piling of action points. I haven't used the offical system, so I'm not sure if this is an issue, but if multiple players can spend action points to modify the same roll, you'll frequently see them doing just that - particularly against powerful (boss) bad guys.
This is not necessarily a problem - the players are spending resources to overcome the challenge, it's just something to be aware of.
http://d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/actionPoints.htm
These were originally printed in Unearthed Arcana.
Do you think it would be too powerful if each player got
one action point / day ???
Do you think it would be too powerful if each player got one action point / day ???
Instead of one each round for up to 5 + 1/2 level rounds total?
I guess it depends on how many encounters you have per day and how many days you have per session.
My personal recommendation is to try the system as written first, then tweak it to fit your preferences.
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Given I'm upgrading to 1 point per level, I certainly think it is too much to give out 1 point per day ...
Think of this -- you are giving out +1d6, or +2d6, or higher each day -- kind of renders the Luck domain for clerics as useless, doesn't it?
That being said, if you give the npcs and monsters the same, it wouldn't be that unbalanced ...
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Given I'm upgrading to 1 point per level, I certainly think it is too much to give out 1 point per day ...
Think of this -- you are giving out +1d6, or +2d6, or higher each day -- kind of renders the Luck domain for clerics as useless, doesn't it?
That being said, if you give the npcs and monsters the same, it wouldn't be that unbalanced ...
True, but you're also limiting the players to +1d6 once per day rather than +xd6 for one encounter, where x is the number of action points the character has saved up.
My experience is that action points aren't spent individually - they're spent in double handfuls when the PC's manage to get in over their head.
The luck domain remains relevant because it can be used in addition to the action point per day. It's not as if everyone having the ability to use an action point once per day renders the ability to use an action point twice per day obsolete.
(I had a player make the luck domain argument regarding the fatespinner prestige class. I agree that it makes the ability less special because it is more common, but I don't think it makes it less powerful.)
I disagree completely that Eberron awards too many action points. L:et me get that out of the way first.
My experience has been it never really fundametally alters the game. It does give players the option, as some have mentioned, of feelign alittle mreo in control of what is oging to happen. That I, and my players like. Now all that is assuming they remember, which my group has a hard time doing till they are gently reminded... or they near a level.
I do have some issue with the "save, save, save" for a level and then "spend, spend, spend" when they think THIS is the session they wil level. But hey, they are the realm of the player, let them do as they choose. I think only having one or two just wouldn't add enough dimension to the game. My plares were on 5th level for months. If they had spent their one point 3 months ago it would be forgotten by now. As it stands we have that one moment every or every other game where they agonize whther it will be worth it, and that creates a dramatic moment, especially when they need a 3 or better and that 1 or 2 comes up... That's the other reason... AP's are helps, but not guarantees. WHat if you only have one and it fails? What's the point?
I dunno, just some thoughts. Best of luck.
I have used "action" points since the beginning of my Age of Worms campaign. I also used it in a StarWars Campaign several years ago. When we started AOW I gave each player 1 action point. At every level gained the characters got a single action point. They could also get them for extreme heroism, acts of self-sacrifice, and things of that nature. I also handed out 1 or two of them at the end of each Dungeon chapter of AOW. PC's could stockpile them and use them from level to level as they saw fit. In My action point system PC's could use actions points to re-roll ANY of their own die rolls (d20, d10,d6, etc.) with the most used being for d20's. If someone else ran out of action points and were in danger, other PC's could come to their aid and spend (2) action points to give them a re-roll, they just had to roleplay it out on how they were helping their fellow PC. At midway through the AOW campign (6th chapter) the gods smiled on the PC's and I removed the 2 for 1 helping a friend requirement (now they can exchange action points 1 for 1 to a buddy). Eventually the party will be given the ability to use action points to effect My Dice rolls...it has worked out great and adds a lot of fun to the game.
NO offense meant to my group if they are reading this, but dang Steve, that's a bit more than I think my group could handle. At the beginning of the AoW camapign I instituted a "dynamic experience" system. Basically it worked as the a.p. system some have mentioned, do somehting heroic or exteme or just damn cool and we gave out xp's. The amount was small, 10 to 25 or so, and decided by the players based on how innovative the players description of their action was, how fun (or funny) it was. If a player reused the same descriptor for a killing blowe or miraculous heal or charming a barmaid they got less... long story short, good idea that didn't quite work. I like the diea of giving out action points for hersoic actions, but in my opinion action points should CREATE those momemts, or help to, not result from them. Good thread guys!