Interesting issue came up last gaming session....
Long Story Short:The 5th level warlock is infected with kyuss worms...2 of them... gets smacked down to negative 6 hit points from direct damage... the worms are suppose to inflict 1 point of damage each, each round while they are crawling to the brain of the victim... that damage would have driven him to -10 (death ) before the worms reached the brain and started trying to transform him to spawn and I dont think that the worms can animate corpses.. that the individual has to be alive when infected to be transformed (whch was good news for the party in this situtation in general)
BUT...
5th level warlocks have DR 1, That should stop all damage that the worms deal as they only deal one point of damage per worm... but that also mean that the worms progress is stopped and they cannt chew their way to the victims brain in the case of creatures with natural armor +5 or better?
not certain which way to jump with this one.
Are you saying that the Warlock has a natural AC of +5..?
If the Warlock has DR of 1, but is taking 2 HPs of damage per round (1 for each of the 2 worms = 2 HP/round), he's still taking a net loss of 1 HP/round, which means he may die before they reach his brain - which would actually be a good thing for the party, since he would NOT transform.
Of course, if the Warlock does in fact have a natural AC of +5, it's a moot point, since the worms would make no progress - but he would still require some kind of treatment for the worms that are in him...unless he gets too close to someone else and they jump to the easier target...
M
I fall into the camp of DMs who think that having DR impedes the progress of the Spawn of Kyuss worms, since they rely on damage and burrowing to reach the brain. Each worm can only do 1 point of damage, and since DR applies to each individual instance of damage, even DR 1 will negate worms tranferred by a Spawn. However... the "Slow Worms" will work, because they're ingested.
Just my take on things.
The worms cause 1 hit point of damage per worm. One worm transferred from each attack that hits from the spawn. Each worm causes 1 hp of damage per round, but DR removes one hit point of damage from each attack therefore negating the damage the worms are inflicting totalling. Do they still progress through his body when they cannt damage him>?
When I ran it, I said 'yes';
The half-fiend in my party caught a couple of worms - and while he didn't take any damage from it, they were still chewing their way to his brain... I delighted in describing how he could feel them moving through his body, an unusual sensation, although not entirely painful... He managed to rid himself of them before they reached his brain, fortunately for him.
Ultimately, it's up to you as the DM, but I say, why reduce the risk of 'conversion' just by having DR?
M
I'm with VedicCold on this.
DR is not regeneration, but the ability to stop damage from being done -- it's physical protection from attacks.
If an attack can't overcome damage resistance, I'd rule that all of it's effects are negated (though I'm sure there are reasonable exceptions).
For what it's worth.
Jack
Really, the question is "Does DR exist on the inside or the outside of the opponent?"
I think I'd probably rule that 1) No, it won't cause the HP per se', but 2) Infection can still occur (this being an exception from say a centipede's bite won't poison if it doesn't get through DR - The bite fails to break the skin, but once a worm is in to the soft squigy organs, all bets are off).
This way, smart alek high-level barbarians (with their DR 1/-) wouldn't decide to eatthe worms as cereal.
Creative Director
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Personally, I think that those Kyuss worms shouldn't be able to chew through damage reduction. Having their ability to get in you stopped by the +5 natural armor seems clunkier.
Of course, this does mean that warlocks and barbarians are immune to most of the worms, but that's okay. It's fine to let the PCs win now and then.
Personally, I think that those Kyuss worms shouldn't be able to chew through damage reduction. Having their ability to get in you stopped by the +5 natural armor seems clunkier.
Of course, this does mean that warlocks and barbarians are immune to most of the worms, but that's okay. It's fine to let the PCs win now and then.
Somebody call Guinness;
I think that this is the first rules issue that J.J. and I have diverged on.
M
Personally, I think that those Kyuss worms shouldn't be able to chew through damage reduction. Having their ability to get in you stopped by the +5 natural armor seems clunkier.
Ah, saved by the "guts of steel", eh?
I agree, the stopped by the +5 natural armor seems, well, odd...
Is it possible for a worm to crawl to some "soft-entry" point before expiring? (I'm sure the +5 natural armor doesn't apply in the mouth, or the eyes/ears/nose, or *ahem* other areas) Maybe allow PCs a spot check to notice a green worm inching get into the body. Kinda adds to the heebie-jeebies factor of the Spawn.
This seems to take a lot out of the big punch concluding Black Wall Keep. Perhaps, the worms could infest a PC with DR through an already established wound without causing further damage. Thus, any wounded PC is susceptible. Just a thought.
This seems to take a lot out of the big punch concluding Black Wall Keep. Perhaps, the worms could infest a PC with DR through an already established wound without causing further damage. Thus, any wounded PC is susceptible. Just a thought.
Personally, I think that those Kyuss worms shouldn't be able to chew through damage reduction. Having their ability to get in you stopped by the +5 natural armor seems clunkier.
Of course, this does mean that warlocks and barbarians are immune to most of the worms, but that's okay. It's fine to let the PCs win now and then.
I think James' point is good -- we don't have to stick it to the players every time. And unforseen benefits to players' choices are not a bad thing.
Regards all,
Jack
This seems to take a lot out of the big punch concluding Black Wall Keep. Perhaps, the worms could infest a PC with DR through an already established wound without causing further damage. Thus, any wounded PC is susceptible. Just a thought.
It seems to me that DR means different things in different cases.
If you're wearing Dwarven Plate, you get DR from the adamantine, but presumably the spawn can throw a worm on you and it can find a chink in your armor to crawl through just as it can do with normal plate armor.
Barbarians get their DR because they are tough enough "shrug off" part of the damage from weapon blows that would fell normal characters (one supposes this is a combination of muscle tone, ability to roll with the blow, and insensitivity to pain). The PH description specifies that it works only against "damage from a weapon or a natural attack." Based on this, I'd be inclined to rule Barbarians are no more immune than anyone else. (I suppose they might not notice the pain as much and thus not take damage, but I still think the thing would burrow into them).
I don't have the book with Warlock, so I'm not sure how I'd rule on their DR. Also not sure about lycanthropes, fiendish or celestial creatures, etc. because the description of their DR is vague (MM says either weapon bounces off or damage heals immediately, depending on the monster, but doesn't go into detail which monsters' DR works which way).
DR is normally stated as instantly healing the damage taken, therefore I would rule that those w/ DR take no dmg but the worms are able to burrow thru them and risk becomeng Spawn of Kyuss since it heals back the damage but doesn't prevent it. The Natural Armor is described as ranging from hide to armored plates, and having a +5 would definitely rank up there; so I would go along w/ those w/ +5 being relatively immune except for rare or specific instances. I mean, a rhino ain't about to be chewed on by misquetos or leeches & just how smart are you going to play the worms anyway??
OK, I'm going to go back on my previous opinion :(
The d20 System Reference Document says for DR:
A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective).
So DR reflects at least two different abilities, and it's now a case-by-case judgement. Clearly werewolves are instantly healing damage not done by silver (as opposed to non-silver weapons just bouncing off). Iron golems, on the other hand, are too hard to penetrate without adamantine.
To pick on the werewolves (or Warlocks with DR 1/cold iron), I'd now way that the worm burrows in, but the wound heals instantly -- so the worm still gets to do it's thing. Bummer for the victim.
(I suppose you could rule that any damage to the brain is instantly healed, but having a worm munching away at your brain for the rest of eternity is just a bit too gross to dwell on)
Jack
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective).
I think there was a precision made in the FAQ, if you don't take damage because of the DR you do not take associated effect unless it is a "contact" effect.
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Aye, poison and disease, I think, were the two examples I recall. I assume the +5 natural armor bonus could be a reference to the AC/DR system of Unearthed Arcana where every 5 pts of natural armor converted to +4 AC and DR 1/-. I would tend to agree that adamantine plate (or DR given by hevay armor in the aforementioned system) might not stop the worms, but I do agree w/ James in that a character/creature w/ extraordinarily tough skin (barbarian/golem) or supernatural defenses (Warlock/lycanthrope) be unaffected by the worms. I'm sure future versions of the Spawn (like those green worms on the first AoW cover) will be able to compensate for a little DR :).