Sorry, forgot to write something.
Have you ever had to compromise with your parents because they thought D&D was evil? What about your church? Has anyone ever judged you as an evil person for playing D&D?
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Sorry, forgot to write something.
Have you ever had to compromise with your parents because they thought D&D was evil? What about your church? Has anyone ever judged you as an evil person for playing D&D?
Actually, yeah. My parents were pretty cool about. They were thinking better that I was out playing D&D when I was in high school (mid-80’s) instead out partying, drinking and doing drugs (I waited for college to do that). However, I did take some flak for playing D&D from SOME members of the religion I was raised in (Mormon). However, I was quick to point out to them that Tracy Hickman is a Mormon and he co-wrote The Dragon Lance novels and modules as well as the Desert of Desolation series. Sadly, that didn't do much to convince them that D&D wasn't inherently evil.
Has anyone ever judged you as an evil person for playing D&D?
Yes, but then I killed them.
ASEO out
Here goes...how has your religion conflicted with D&D??
They forgot to put my entry into Deities and Demigods.
The wrathful,
Great Green God
PS I'm ready for my close-up Mr. Reynolds.
Actually my somewhat religious mom was more concerned about the TMNT book that I had, with stats for guns and stuff than actual D&D. She was cool with that. I kept a low profile with D&D with my new church necause I thought it might get a negative reaction from people. But aside from people thinking me strange (and I am), people seemed cool with it.
In short, I PERSONALLY have not had problems, but I have heard stories from others. I've even seen a tract or two connecting D&D (and rock) directly to Satan worship. That was a kick. People are stupid.
Remember, Gary Gygax is a devout Jehova's Witness...who knows that a little imagination never hurt anybody. :)
It sounds like everybody hasn't had too many bad experiences, that's cool. I have had some hellacious moments (no pun intended).
The pastors at the Christian school I attended for most of my youth had got ahold of one of my Magic The Gathering decks and had been passing it around for a week having meetings about it. They finally pulled me into the principles office in the middle of class.
"Jeremy, do you know what 'SUMMON MONSTER' actually means?" They asked.
"Yeah, it means magically creating a creature," I answered.
"No, it doesn't. It means summoning a demon." And that wasn't even a deck with a Juzam Djinn. At that point I was told I wasn't Christian for playing Magic and that they would be having a meeting with my parents. Luckily my parents are kick ass and didn't trip. Sometimes I still like to imagine the looks on those youth pastors faces when my parents told them they would be pulling me from the school.
It's funny how riled up people can get if you just mention spells or magic. Personally, as a Christian, I've even been a little standoffish when it comes to the pantheon of gods in the D&D canon, so I created a little variant just to make myself feel better (not that it was necessary). I made all the gods into "Diety Engines" in my games that are actually linking devices to the one true God. The engines have personality and can make decisions independently of God (some have even rebelled) so, in effect, nothing had to be changed in the rules. Now some of the Clerics in my homebrew acknowledge that they worship engines and some don't, but most admit that there is a higher power.
When I was in 7th Grade out sunday school class decided to do a unit on what was wrong with D&D. Another classmate and myself both played D&D, and we wanted to see if we could change their opinions about the game. I suggested running a game for the class. The teacher tenatively okayed the idea, as long as he got to look through the books that we were going to use.
Our teacher, to his credit, read through a lot of the rules, and didn't have a problem with them, but was concerned with some of the artwork (old 1st edition DMG in particular). But he decided to let us play out our session, and we ran a session where the player's got trapped in a storm and were attacked by giant crocodiles, lizard men, and dinosaurs. In the end, our teacher said that there were elements that might be problematic, but a christian that understood their faith should have no problem veering off the path playing it.
That having been said, there were still individuals that gave us a hard time. Our principle (I went to a Lutheran grade school) banned us from playing between school and basketball practice, initially asking us, "do you think you should be doing that here?" (I always wanted to ask him that if we were heathans for playing it, was it better to be heathans at home than at school?)
The one thing I would say is that please be mindful of those around you though. Some people really just don't understand, and they really are well meaning, and calling them stupid zealots or morons doesn't fix the situation. They may really be good people honestly worried about you, and may even get a better image of the game if you take the time to ask them WHY they have a problem with it.
Oh, and just to pass the blame around, don't forget there were just as many liberal psychologist damning D&D as there were conservative fundamentalists in the 80s, and oddly these are the same ones making hay on video games now. THOSE kinds of people aren't covered by my above "be understanding" caveat becuase they know they are just trying to demonize something for political gain.
But thats all my two (or more) cents.
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My Church went nuts with me in '84. They attacked me on two fronts. 1st Front: I was surely to go to hell for playing such a game. Even our neighbor 2 houses up had all his D&D merchandise thrown away while he was at school by his mom. 2nd front: it was going around at the time that martial arts calls on the power of the devil to break boards. Nonsense, but i was a ranked fighter(Tae Kwon Do-tournaments) at the time. They even said that my black belt was black to represent evil and the power of the devil. LOL I wasnt even allowed to sit next to the Deacons(sp?) daughters at church for fear the my 'evil-ness' may rub off. I eventually left the church when they told me that i should tell my friends that they were going to burn in hell unless they left the public school and went to their private school. In the end, they were good people, but very close-minded. Sad thing is, they seemed the most unhappy in their lives. Caveat: there is nothing wrong with churches, religions, or well-meaning folks. One just has to know when to avoid the close-minded. My 2 cents.
Thoth Amon
I personally haven't had a problem with it, but one of my friends did. The problem didn't come from his family, whom I believe are Catholic (and also very odd, but in a good way! Strangely enough, my friend is an athiestic pyromaniac despite his upbrining, or maybe because of it), but when he was on the job one day. At the time, he was in landscaping. He was somewhere near Louisville, KY, with some of his friends on the job (I believe they all played D&D, but I never met them), and two girls approached the workers and began to talk. My friend often tries to leap into D&D first thing to establish a connection along those lines, but it backfired on him here.
According to what he told me, at the mere mention of the name "Dungeons and Dragons", these two girls (ealry- mid-teens I think) covered their mouths and gasped, saying "That's the game that makes you do bad things!" My friend says he tried to explain that such wasn't the case to them, but they didn't listen (and knowing my friend and the descriptions he's given me of his co-workers, it might not have been their fault!)
In the 10th grade, I had a substitute named Mr. Vanvasnachte (with German pronunciation, so the Vs are said as Fs). He would give anyone who could correctly say his name $5 (I got within 1 syllable). Even the German foreign exchange student didn't get it, so most people just called him Mr. F. He overheard my friends and I talking about D&D one day and was immediately drawn into a discussion about his old college days playing- there were some interesting tales. I think he said he had to stop when he switched to a more "conservative" church.
The one thing I would say is that please be mindful of those around you though. Some people really just don't understand, and they really are well meaning, and calling them stupid zealots or morons doesn't fix the situation. They may really be good people honestly worried about you, and may even get a better image of the game if you take the time to ask them WHY they have a problem with it.
Oh, and just to pass the blame around, don't forget there were just as many liberal psychologist damning D&D as there were conservative fundamentalists in the 80s, and oddly these are the same ones making hay on video games now. THOSE kinds of people aren't covered by my above "be understanding" caveat becuase they know they are just trying to...
I agree completely, most people, if they actually sat down and read the rules or played a game would realize that not only is D&D only as bad as you make it, they would probably have fun.
I think calling them zealots or morons would be sinking to their level. Most of the time it is true, they are trying to do the right thing, but at the same time they are lashing out in fear of something that they don't understand. But that opens a whole other can of worms when it comes to isolationism within religious spheres best left to a different thread on a different board.
One more story: Back when the old boxed set of Hero Quest came out, my biological father (not my stepdad) took one look at the wizard on the cover and said, "No way." But all I could think about was those cool plastic minature furniture and goblins. So I tricked him into thinking it was a version of monopoly. He never quite got the connection between Monopoly and Hero Quest and I never let him in on the secret.
If you've had to pull any covert ops to play D&D tell me about it.
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Let me preface by saying that some of my remarks are going to be be generalizations.
I'm an archaeologist by profession and most of us in the field have had a fair amount of anthropology and/or sociology. Sometimes it's helpful to turn the camera of circumspection back on ourselves and look for our biases. I have some. I have some deep-seated biases.
I have trouble with Baptists. Mostly Southern Baptists. This is not an assault on the religion, this is not saying I hate them, I just take exception to some of the...dialogues I've had with a subset of that group in the past.
I grew up on a farm outside of a rural red-neck-y community in the Midwest. There are parts that I hated and parts that I loved (probably why I'm partial to druids and rangers). One of the parts that I hated was the propensity for certain elements in the population to readily judge everything and comment on who is working their way to damnation and who is not. This wasn't so much a problem with the adult structure as much as with people from my own peer group.
There were many arguments with some of the Baptist students at my school over what they thought was demonic/devil-worshiping/soul-killing communion with Satan himself, and what the rest of us thought was a darned fun game where we got to use our minds rather than let them atrophy. There were end-runs on both sides trying to get various authority figures to drop the hammer on the other group, but (impressivly to some degree) the administration stayed pretty neutral.
Personally, I also faced this same type of argument about what I was choosing for my profession. As I was taking college track classes and delving deeper into the world of archaeology, I had members of this same group denouncing me in the hallways of the school and telling me I was going to burn because archaeology was grave-robbing. I tried to explain that most sites didn't have any human remains recovered, but they were convinced that I was going to be going out and "digging up Indian Graveyards". I tried to explain about various laws (although NAGPRA wasn't in existence yet) and the academic structure, but when one side has no interest in what the other side is saying, everything is pre-judged and the case is all wrapped up but the passing of the sentance, it's hard.
Now I live in Texas where, for lack of a better euphemism, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Baptist, and I do have residuals from this early period of 'training' in my life. I know several Baptists (both Southern and, uh, the regular kind) here and am friends with a few, and have talked to several of them both role playing and archaeology. Overwelmingly, those that I have spoken to about it seem amazed by what the stance was in my hometown. One stood absolutely slack-jawed for a moment before saying "That's the most pig-ignorant swill I've ever heard".
I'm learning to overcome my biases some. They are still there, they probably always will be. If I know someone is Baptist, I will probably be fairly guarded until we've talked several times. But, I do know where my short-comings are coming from, as well.
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Sorry, forgot to write something.
Have you ever had to compromise with your parents because they thought D&D was evil? What about your church? Has anyone ever judged you as an evil person for playing D&D?
My folks never had religious issues with D&D, but my mom was concerned about me being a teenager and "still playing games like kids do". She wasn't certain what she'd rather me be doing, she was just concerned that I wasn't "growing up".
She eventually got over it and, ironically, we play boardgames when our family gets together now.
Go figure...
Sorry, forgot to write something.
Have you ever had to compromise with your parents because they thought D&D was evil? What about your church? Has anyone ever judged you as an evil person for playing D&D?
I come from a very open minded family, and have had no problem with my parents over D&D.
But things aside, as long as parents take a healthy interest in what their children do, and take time to learn what things actually are about, instead of listening to media, clergy or whatever, things should be fine.
Duuude... This girl in my coven like totally freaked when she saw me carrying a copy of Dragon #115, screaming at me about how it like stereotyped witches and put down women and stuff...
...What a like total dufus! She was like so b%~+~y to me after that I had to like go in exile and find a new coven. That just like totally sucked...
No, but my personal stance is that religion is a very personal, private experience - I don't like to mix it with my recreational activities.
I was blessed enough to be brought up in an agnostic environment, but I did feel sorry for my friends who had to hide the fact that they played D&D from their parents (who, incidentally, were the kind that absolutely refused to sit in on a game, read the rule books, or educate themselves in some fashion as to find out what their children were doing).
hellacious huni~
well, it was t&t rather than d&d, but i've got one black ops story. in basic training for the army we weren't allowed to have dice. i had my soft-covered t&t rulebook (passed off as my one allowed 'magazine') and in my wallet was a change pocket that i'd smuggled in like 10 tiny dice the size of the pips on normal dice. all 10 were little bigger than a finger nail. we would move our lockers to block view and play for hours on sundays, our only day off. the dice were easily hid, and while the lockers raised a few eyebrows, we never got in any trouble for it.
on the larger topic, i've never had many religious problems with roleplaying. two teachers were concerned with me playing in middle school, but after i explained the game, and compared it to the creative writing and poetry i was doing in their classes, they were cool with it. one of the teachers was coming at it from a religious angle. one of my best friends, whom i played with, moved away in 8th grade. we continued playing through the mail until he was converted to christianity and didn't want to play anymore because it was evil. he tried to make up his own military rpg to play instead, but of course it flopped and i never heard from him again.
1981: I'm 10 years old and my mom, who instilled her love of fantasy and greek mythology in me, gets me the Basic D&D rule book. She'd never heard of it before, just thought it looked interesting. Oh... by the way... she's a devout Eposcopalian (think Catholic-lite) and that whole side of the family is WAAAAAY Christain.
So I spend the next 5 or 6 years DMing for various friends (because I was the one introducing everyone to it) while my mom is hearing more and more about the "dangers" of RPGs and D&D specifically. She's getting more nervous.
Now, I grew up in a cow town with no real gaming community, so I'm not sure exactly when the whole scare hit its peak and whether that was happening at the time. What I DO remember is seeing the "Mazes and Monsters" movie with Tom Hanks, and then reading the book, and being absolutely furious that everybody was skipping the fact that the main character had psychological problems BEFORE he started playing.
During this time, I'm defending D&D to various classmates who tell me I'm going to hell and D&D is all about the Occult. Oh... by the way... 9 years of Catholic school... complete with nuns. I was a bit of a loner, so never much cared what any of them thought anyway.
So the friends move away, I'm in high school, and D&D is forgotten for about 10 years until I find a gaming group as an adult. I go back to my mom's house and to the boxes of stuff that never seemed to move with me, looking for my original dice (remember when the d20 were just numbered 1-10 twice?), the dozens of games I'd created, my purchased modules (all 3 of them), Basic and Expert rule books, those god-awful miniatures, only to find them all gone. She'd thrown them out because of the danger they'd posed. I almost cried.
The original question was did it ever conflict with my religion. My answer is no. Because I'm Pagan. Christianity was my parents' religion and one I was forced to go through the motions with as a child, but it was never my own. The only "conflict" I may have at this point is that, frankly, the D&D world as written has too much of a Christain influence for my taste. But we fix that all up quite nicely.
I have the freedom of an adult at this point to pick the religion that makes the most sense to me, the hobbies that give me the most enjoyment, and the people I want to have in my life who understand and accept my belief system though it may be different from their own. It's a hard struggle when you don't have that freedom. I know it's a hard thing to believe right now, but it REALLY IS true that you will get to be your own person some day. And you'll get to make choices about who or what you want in your life. And that freedom is a wonderful thing to have.
Oh... forgot to mention... my mother actually games with us from time to time now. Go figure.
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1st Front: I was surely to go to hell for playing such a game.
Someone told me that once, but as I grew up in New Orleans, I told them that going to Hell would probably be an improvement.
But seriously though, growing up I had great parents who encouraged my love of reading and saw my fertile imagination as a good thing. OK, they (and others) thought I was weird, but they were fine with that. As long as I did OK in school, didn't get arrested, and generally behaved myself, my parents were cool with whatever kind of hobbies I had.
As far as religion goes, I lost faith in organized religion a long time ago. I respect most religions (scientology being one of the exceptions), but none of them are for me. I guess I'm too much the scientist (although I'm actually an engineer).
Holy Misconceptions!!!
How do these people sleep at night??? Talk about fear of the unknown! How closed minded can people be? If there's anything that can develope a child's mind and imagination it's roleplaying games. I'm all for having beliefs and a certain spirituality about the universe and all, but to think that some people would actually think you're the devil for playing Dungeons & Dragons, it just blows me away. These "enlightened" people aren't so "enlightened" at all, and just goes to show everybody that NOTHING beats good old common sense.
Gees...
Ultradan.
You know it's strange in my case. My "religion" has never conflicted with D&D. Neither has my "faith." I am an active Roman Catholic, a professed Secular Franciscan, and very active in the Knights of Columbus, an organization of Catholic gentlemen.
I started playing AD&D in college around 1980. Back then the biggest thing against the game was not religious but a badly reported incident that somehow combined AD&D with steam tunnels at a college campus. Live rleplaying and table top role playing often got confused and as a result the game in general was often considered "dangerous."
Organizations that were based on these initial misconceptions lasted for over a decade, and actively crusaded against the hobby under the false belief that the game was responsible for the deaths of some people, typically people close to those in the organization.
Slowly, however, those objections subsided and more and more religious ones started appearing. They increased as D&D went from a college campus game to a high school campus game, and to some extent there may have been valid reasons at the time for some concern, if not from the core books from other books of the genre. I'm not sure Shanrda the Castrator was appropriate cover art for a high school book, although she was certnaly ok for college age adults who were above the legal drinking age at the time.
I should point out that one of the leading publisher of anti gaming material, from a religious perspective, publishes far worse anti-Catholic material than they do anti-D&D. This is a common problem, fear and ignorance is easier to spread if it is covered by a thin vineer of religion. It filters down until well meaning people start taking these bits of misinformation as gospel.
How closed minded can people be?
VERY
well, for being a devout irish roman catholic living in an area of devout german and irish roman catholic families, i got very little. None, in fact. Of course, it's central minnesota, so i guess the catholics up here must be more liberal than the catholics in what i would assume is the southm based on the descriptions of other peoples' dilemmas. Also, these days the fundementalists among the church have more "important" things to worry about, or so they think. I find that the D&D game is very much based in both Abrahamic and non-Abrahamic lore. I mean, seriously, they've got angels and demons. Paladins. Clerics. The Book of Exalted Deeds is full of stuff like that, like the Stigmata feat, or the shroud of the saint, or the wrack of the tortured saint (i think those two are from BoED). And the vow of celibacy feat, too. Tons of references, and usually on the side of good.
I and my gaming group and my parents are all very active christians. All those people that are sayin its bad and youll go to hell are not acting like real christians should act. Back to the quiston, I have had no problems with my church, only thing that happened is one kid quite because it was to geeky and uncool for him to play if he were to stay populer, which in retrospect means hes not a good friend.
One of the things Gavgoyle mentioned in its post merits some commentary. As an official Southern Baptist I feel privileged to speak on it, too. (I'm correct in assuming that SBCers are the paragonal class of "fundamentalists," correct?) After that I think I'll just ramble a bit, dressing it up with numbered section breaks.
(1) Re: Southern Baptists, most generalizations are problematic. (And not simply because generalizations are problematic in general - quite a paradoxical statement). The cause is the ecclesiastical structure of the Southern Baptist Convention "Southern Baptist" is not technically a denomination, for reasons I shall presently explain. In authentic denominations, there is a top-down ecclesiastical/governmental apparatus that determines such things as (a) doctrine, (b) appointment of new elders/pastors, and (c) distribution of denominational funds. For instance, when a Presbyterian church wants to implement a new elder, the greater presbytery of the region has to okay the selection. The local congregation can't act without this approval.
But in the Southern Baptist Convention, this isn't the case. The closest thing we have to a confession of faith, the _Baptist Faith and Message 2000_, is so vague that almost anyone that takes a favorable view of the Bible and doesn't wish to baptize his or her children will accept it. Furthermore, the SBC doesn't have any body (and doesn't plan to have any body) that enforces the preaching of what doctrine _is_ in the BF&M2000. What all this means is that "Southern Baptist" looks (or can look) totally different from church to church. In my opinion, this is a flaw, though it stems from noble goals - the preservation of local autonomy, freedom of conscience, and all that. So when you encounter a Southern Baptist who gives his opinion on X, if it's not explicitly covered in the BF&M2000 or may be deliberated upon by implication therefrom, he's just speaking as Joe Smith, not as Baptist acolyte.
(2) That may or may not be important to anyone. Perhaps it's interesting for its Trivial Pursuit value. Speaking for myself, I come from a currently minority strain in SBC life, being Reformed/Calvinistic/theologically deterministic/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it. Because of this many of my fellow SBCers would consider me a heretic. But in the strain of Reformed theology (which unites Baptists and Presbyterians), you'll be much more unlikely to find such vituperous denunciations of D&D and similar pastimes because roleplaying games emphasize reading, writing, mathematics, creativity, and social interaction - as opposed to the more or less mindless button-mashing of video games.
In my own experience, D&D has been conducive to my following of my religion. Like I said earlier, it encourages (even necessitates!) more involved social contact than the usual for today between people who are often strangers. Although my gaming group is largely composed of high-school and college friends (and all of these are Christians of one stripe or another - I do live in Alabama, after all), it does include at least one avowed non-believer. Our religion hasn't come up during the course of the game, but in social conversation outside the game (during breaks, etc.), we've talked about the differences in our ideologies, all the while remaining cool about it and friendly but still emphasizing that our ideologies are significantly different and dearly held.
(3) I suppose my only complaint is that D&D makes me wish that YHWH would hook me up with some sweet divine spells. I mean, I'm only talking one or two per day. Is that too much to ask? I'm sure there are a lot of nasty people out there (the Hitlers and such of the world) upon whom the Nazarene Carpenter wouldn't mind me using a nicely aimed Disintegrate spell. Right?
Sigh....and these are the same type of arguments that happen with LOTR and HP and some "religous" people......and these people actually don't see the contradiction with their love of Narnia....
Well it is my prayer that my kids only problem as teenagers is the same one I had.....playing D&D.
When the stories about teens abound with the life altering effects of sex, drink, and drugs, people worry about a game? Give me a break.
As pointed out on the Escapist website....just because you read a western, doesn't make you a gunfighter! Nor by using the Player Handbook will I be able to summon a monster or feather fall.
-Dave
When the stories about teens abound with the life altering effects of sex, drink, and drugs, people worry about a game? Give me a break.
Amen to that.
As pointed out on the Escapist website....just because you read a western, doesn't make you a gunfighter! Nor by using the Player Handbook will I be able to summon a monster or feather fall.-Dave
Good website and an excellent point.
When the stories about teens abound with the life altering effects of sex, drink, and drugs, people worry about a game? Give me a break.
As pointed out on the Escapist website....just because you read a western, doesn't make you a gunfighter! Nor by using the Player Handbook will I be able to summon a monster or feather fall.
-Dave
That was pretty much my parents' reasoning for not having any issues about our gaming: their three sons and their five friends weren't out in the neighborhood, looking for trouble like hoodlums - they were safely packed around a table in the patio room, playing some "silly" game which was of absolutely no use or concern to them.
The other reason for their not having any issues with it was that they were mostly ignorant and unconcerned of what we were up to, otherwise...
M
Hellacious Huni,
I was a little taken aback by your mention of your personal homebrew solution to the D&D pantheon of gods because it is exactly the same thing I do! All "lesser gods" maintain the majority of their powers, etc.; but they are all ultimately subservient to the One True God (through which all true power and authority exists) - though like you said some rebel and/or act independently. Most lawful good gods in my homebrew are in reality just aspects of the One True God, though not all clerics recognize this fact. Like you, I impliment this system for my own satisfaction and have no problem with others playing differently.
As far as outside "flak" from the religious community, in the '80s we took great pains to shield our personal preference for gaming from our church family and to some extent, continue to do so today. My Mom is a devout Christian and was very uneasy when her four children became nearly obsessed with this game at its beginning. Thankfully, she's a very smart woman and was willing to listen to our side of the story and observed when/how the game was played. I don't think she was ever really happy about it (she doesn't know that we still play)but she resigned herself to the fact that we were going to play and just trusted our role-playing wouldn't result in anything crazy (which, of course, it never did).
When I was a teen-ager I wrote to the editor of a christian teen publication in response to an article they had published bashing D&D. I tried to explain the harmless nature of the game and its ultimate positive tone (good characters fighting to overcome evil) but alas, I was gently told that my niavete was refreshing but disappointing and that it was dangerous to pursue my controversial entertainment venue. I think the ignorance in the christian community is unfortunate. I further find it frustrating and irritating how misconceptions and biases are enflamed and bantered about by christian "experts" who know nothing of which they speak. In the end, though, I don't think it really matters. I mean, you wouldn't be mad if a certain segment of the population was totally against the game of football or baseball; so why care if they rob themselves of the joy of role-playing? Ultimately, it's their loss.
Hellacious Huni,
I was a little taken aback by your mention of your personal homebrew solution to the D&D pantheon of gods because it is exactly the same thing I do! All "lesser gods" maintain the majority of their powers, etc.; but they are all ultimately subservient to the One True God (through which all true power and authority exists) - though like you said some rebel and/or act independently. Most lawful good gods in my homebrew are in reality just aspects of the One True God, though not all clerics recognize this fact. Like you, I impliment this system for my own satisfaction and have no problem with others playing differently.
I further find it frustrating and irritating how misconceptions and biases are enflamed and bantered about by christian "experts" who know nothing of which they speak. In the end, though, I don't think it really matters. I mean, you wouldn't be mad if a certain segment of the population was totally against the game of football or baseball; so why care if they rob themselves of the joy of role-playing? Ultimately, it's their loss.
You're right SirMarcus, but it's funny how nobody will ever tell you that you are going to hell for loving baseball.
I think the only real problem with D&D is the same problem that can exist in any hobby or entertainment: the proclivity to let the hobby eclipse your life. I think this is what some churches and religious people respond to when they see that their kid stops caring about anything other D&D. Yet, I've see the same problem manifest itself with videogames, comics, collectibles, and movies. Really (once again) it comes down to parenting and the attitude you approach the game. If you let you child do nothing on the weekends and weeknights but play D&D then you're probably setting your child up for a fall. If you find yourself thinking of nothing but the next D&D game, if you feel it is consuming your life, then maybe you should take a little break. I suppose that advise serves for just about anything you can become obsessed with, even women (or men).
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Thank you for the theological primer, Vanoj! Like I said, I place a lot of the responsibility of my feelings on myself. A lot of my problems with the religion as a whole stem from a time and place where there was a fair amount of reactionary animosity between some individuals and myself. I try to overcome my conciets and preconceptions, but am not always successful. Old scars tend to be easier to remember than to forget.
The amount that I know about Baptists and the diversity of that faith could probably fill thimbles...at least two. I am a Methodist by upbringing, but by individual theological and philosophical pursuit, I would probably be more properly termed an MethoTaoist.
If I were to be introduced to you as a Baptist before I know anything else about you, I would probably be somewhat distant from you until I got to know you better. That is definitely my short-coming, not yours! All I can say is that I try to do better, I'm just not always successful.
Someone told me that once, but as I grew up in New Orleans, I told them that going to Hell would probably be an improvement.
I grew up in New Orleans too, and I agree!
I think the only real problem with D&D is the same problem that can exist in any hobby or entertainment: the proclivity to let the hobby eclipse your life. I think this is what some churches and religious people respond to when they see that their kid stops caring about anything other D&D. Yet, I've see the same problem manifest itself with videogames, comics, collectibles, and movies. Really (once again) it comes down to parenting and the attitude you approach the game. If you let you child do nothing on the weekends and weeknights but play D&D then you're probably setting your child up for a fall. If you find yourself thinking of nothing but the next D&D game, if you feel it is consuming your life, then maybe you should take a little break. I suppose that advise serves for just about anything...
Good points. That's what this whole thing boils down to. D&D, because of its powerfully escapist element, was really the first thing that had that kind of draw that got attention. Or maybe it's a result of the evolution of media. I don't know. But now we have video games, MMORPGS, CCGs, and other things that have similar power expressed through different ways. Balance is the key.
I went to a public elementary school in Elverta, CA. The school board at the time (very early 80s) was heavily peopled with Mormons. I used to read (1st Edition) D&D books all the time during free reading in class. My history teacher used to talk about Satan a lot (in fact, this teacher claimed to have seen Him curled up at the feet of her daughter-in-law's chair shortly before she decided to divorce this teacher's son - I kid you not). Anyway, one day, in this very class, there was an announcement from the principal over the school's PA system. The principal announced that "from now on, Dungeons & Dragons books and other Satanic material is banned from this school." I was not paying much attention and only half-heard what he said, since I was at the time engrossed in reading the 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide (you know, the one with the huge, demonic-looking efreeti on the front). A few seconds later, I noticed the silence. Everyone in the classroom was staring at me. Needless to say, I quickly stowed the book under my desk.
MI
it was going around at the time that martial arts calls on the power of the devil to break boards.
This made me laugh so hard I almost peed.
MI
I think the only real problem with D&D is the same problem that can exist in any hobby or entertainment: the proclivity to let the hobby eclipse your life. I think this is what some churches and religious people respond to when they see that their kid stops caring about anything other D&D. Yet, I've see the same problem manifest itself with videogames, comics, collectibles, and movies.
...and religion.
MI
...Yet, I've see the same problem manifest itself with videogames, comics, collectibles, and movies.
...and religion.
Ooh, ooh, don't forget heavy metal music! That's where I get all my Satanic information from (remembering the disclaimer on the back of Motley Crue's "Shout at the Devil" album that should people attempt to play the record backwards the record company wasn't resposible for what the listener might hear.)
- Chris Shadowens
No one's ever given me any moral grief over D&D but me. Occasionally I've been in games that made me uncomfortable or that I didn't feel were very healthy for me to be in, but usually a private discussion with the DM ("do we really have to roleplay out the human sacrifices?") cleared it up.
-Amber S.
I think the only real problem with D&D is the same problem that can exist in any hobby or entertainment: the proclivity to let the hobby eclipse your life. I think this is what some churches and religious people respond to when they see that their kid stops caring about anything other D&D. Yet, I've see the same problem manifest itself with videogames, comics, collectibles, and movies....and religion.
MI
I completely agree, sometimes people forget that balance even extends to things that may seem to be the most important in their life. Everyone has met the "Flanders" Christian (hey-diddly-doodly) that only seems to understand religion or things church related and forgets that 98% of your their life takes place outside of a church with non church going people. The Bible actually says for Christians to be the salt of the earth, which means the thing that gives this place flavor, and mostly what I see is flavor being taken away.
I am a Scientologist - and games are loved and encouraged.
When a person gets really into the game and plays for ages and ages it can adversly affect thier spiritual practice as anything that is intensly fixated on would.
I have noticed that young kids get pretty fixated ( as I did ) but nothing a walk around the block a few times dosent fix.
Junk Television is much much worse for you.
I've never actually had a problem with the parental side of things. Despite the fact that I grew up in hicksville KY.... my mother purchased my first 'Fantasy' novel and that started the ball rolling.
Being a devout Roman Catholic, one would think that she would have a problem with me playing these games (Especially back in the 80s, with all the bad press) but she never blinked about it and has been supportive and even encouraged me to play. I suppose in part because she is very down to earth and realizes that escapism is common enough. Besides, it actually got me out and social, as opposed to being a reclusive introvert.
Somehow the idea of "RPGs are eeeeevil" has never really caught on in our part of the world (northern Europe) so there has been no conflict. Parents and other family might not understand what we were doing and they might think it is a bit silly but they won't condemn it.
Actually in school my English grades got better when I started to read RPG books in English (which is not my mother tongue) and my teacher was very supportive for such a hobby (mainly since I asked her about all kinds of strange words I came across on those books...).
Sometimes I am amazed at how often this subject comes up...
As I started playing in the early 90's, I never recieved much flack for playing RPGs. My parents were alright about it; they figured that if I was holed up reading a book, I wasn't out doing drugs or getting into fights. The only time I experienced the "D&D stigma" was when a co-worker was absolutely sure that it was an evil game... this was the woman who had a hood piecing, had relations with our boss (a married man), and admited to occasionally experimenting with other women. Yeah, talk about glass houses. By the end of our conversation, I had convinced her that D&D wasn't so bad...
The truth of the matter is that the "D&D stigma" is closed mindedness on two fronts; A game that is different than your average card or board game, and an aspect of religious practices that has been seperated from religions proper only in the last 200-400 years. Having studied "the occult" myself, I've come to realize that occultism is composed of elements of modern religions that were declared unorthodox a long time after the founding of those religions and elements of religions that were displaced by modern religions. Essentially, it's a melting pot of religious beliefs. Other religions despise it because they like to believe they have a monopoly on the "Truth" and "God," and occultism seems to indicate that they have nothing of the sort.
My father and step-mother pretty much branded me the Anti-Christ because of D&D, MY Religion (I'm Pagan), and my total disregard for their feelings on the matter. My step mother use to give me crap about it all the time (I was an honor student, and both of her Sons have prison records). My father use to come at me from the religious angle from time to time, but if him going to church made him a Christian, then me going to a garage makes me a car. The problem that I have with so many religions (especially Christianity) is that so many people talk the talk, but in reality know very little about their faith and even more rarely practice it. Hell, I spent so much time and money on D&D that my friends and I couldn't afford to get into trouble. I was too broke from buying new game stuff.
I think that were most of the problems with people in general is a lack of imagination, and an inability to try and learn about something and THEN form an oppinion about it, as opposed to acting like a lemming and fowling the leader off the cliff.
Everyone I've ever known has been supportive of my D&D habit.
I have yet to receive my first dire warning of its corruptive effects (less money in my wallet, eye strain, rules frustration).
My mother was an atheist so she probably wouldn't have been worried by anything short of me suddenly strutting around in a tabbard intoning the holy scriptures of Garl Glittergold's divine message.
"A pious gnome will always have a home!"
"Uh, sweety..."
"Yes, wise one?"
BTW, that plane in California just landed safely. Amazing landing!
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My religion never conflicted with my gaming habits (I was pretty much raised agnostic), though my next door neighbor's parents' beliefs delayed the start of my D&D experimentation, and it's become an issue with several people since then.
My neighbor's parents had told my mother all of those 80's urban legends about the game and how it leads to Satanic rites or whatever, so she wouldn't let me try it until my cousin's family had started playing and told her that it was fine. Only much later did I find out that my father had played first edition years before I was born, while he was in the Army.
Later on, my girlfriend's parents, who are Catholic, got upset because I had introduced her to the game. I understood their concern based on the generally bad reputation D&D still has in those circles, but I did find the fact that they simply took what other people had told them as gospel to be irritating. What was worse was that I took the time to explain to them exactly what the game was, what it was all about, how it was played, that it actually helped develop social and problem-solving skills, and that in essence our games essentially boil down to good vs. evil. They listened to what I had to say, but as soon as I left they went back to disparaging the game and talking about how dangerous it was. Later, I lent her a White Wolf book, and her mother, a college graduate, told her that she could "feel evil spirits" around the book. They let her play the game, but they still think it has some kind of negative influence.
My family is aethiest and i'm aethiest, so basically i havn't had any problems. I don't have any porlbem with religion btw, just i don't beleive in it. But my grandmother is quite religious, it's just lucky she doesn't know i guess ;)
Anyway the Jade it seems you had quite s similar situation to mine. And when i read:
"A pious gnome will always have a home!"
"Uh, sweety..."
"Yes, wise one?"
I almost peed myself!
When my wife was in high school, she made her boyfriend (who went to the same church she did) throw away his D&D books.
Oh, the irony!
She did apologize to him a couple of years ago. : )
- rob
I almost peed myself!
Fire elementals should never pee themselves. It's their version of hara-kiri.
*snuff*