
Ed Healy Contributor |

Actually, just out of curiosity, who else on here publishes outside of the gaming genre? Fiction? Newspapers? Music stuff? I'm always interested in seeing what kind of crossover we get with any given field.
I've only just (read, "two days ago") started sending querries to DRAGON and DUNGEON magazines, but have been writing for Action Pursuit Games for a couple years.

Great Green God |

Except for crazy halfling serial killers slashing up aristocrats with straight razors, that is. Wes and I have that angle covered.
-James
Curses! Foiled again!
"Well you can tell by the fact that none of the victims had a single slash mark above the navel. It had to be halflings."
"But sir, I thought halflings where quiet, retiring, stout folk who didn't wear shoes anf had hairy feet."
"Where have you been kid? That's what they've wanted us to think all along. They've been miniture, nomadic, dog-riding barbarian supermodels all a long. And how many supermodels don't like shoes? Haven't you read the latest edition?"
GGG

John Simcoe |

Aside from my three Dungeon credits and game writing for West End Games ("D6 Space Aliens Vol. 1" -- available now!), I work full time as a newspaper copy editor. For several years, I wrote a monthly newspaper column called "Comics on the Brain," you can visit most of those articles at www.ComicsOnTheBrain.com and visiting the Comics column section.
One of my dream projects would be writing a "Destroyer" novel, an action-adventure series starring Remo Williams. But the real "writing prize" for me would be writing a comic book. I generated some very minor interest from Kenzer when they still had rights to the D&D comic, but that went nowhere.

Michael Griffith |

But the real "writing prize" for me would be writing a comic book.
John:
Contact me about the comic work. May have some opportuinites for you. professorgriffith@yahoo.com
=====================
I write and edit for several small comic companies, edited an academic newsletter, and have been published in some college publications (campus-wide, mainly, for other instructors and administrators) and have had some short fantasy fiction published on the web in e-zines. Also had some poisons and items in a Bastion Press gaming product.

William Christensen |

Ooh... well if Big James (for lack of a better qualifier) asked you for changes, that's a good sign indeed. And getting rejections isn't so bad - with fiction stuff, it just means it's time to send out to the next mag on the list, and the few times I've gotten positive notes from folks like Zoetrope and Pindeldyboz it was almost as good as actually getting published. :) Dungeon and Dragon rejections are a little tougher to take in that we're really the only market, so a rejection means a proposal's basically dead... but the trade-off is that the difficulty/prestige ratio is off the charts - for the kinds of cred that these mags command in their field, it's WAY easier to write for us than it should be. I mean, in gaming terms, these are the New Yorker, Playboy, and McSweeny's all rolled into one... but unlike those, us normal folks actually have a shot in hell with Dragon and Dungeon. And even with the crazy old system, our response times are still better. :)
Actually, just out of curiosity, who else on here publishes outside of the gaming genre? Fiction? Newspapers? Music stuff? I'm always interested in seeing what kind of crossover we get with any given field.
-Li'l James
Well, I’m currently writing Class Acts for your sister publication Dragon (and hoping to write some features and other regular columns someday!), working on an adventure for you guys (I recently received one rejection from you James, and one go-ahead from Jeremy in the last round of submissions: wahoo!), and working on a follow-up adventure to my critically acclaimed (okay, I’m full of myself here :) adventure “Gambler’s Quest” (published by Expeditious Retreat Press).
I venture into the realms of fantasy and horror as well, and even try a little bit of nonfiction. James: that’s great that you received good word from Zoetrope! They’re a difficult market, so to hear anything other than the standard form rejection is a good sign! Keep it up! I myself have yet to get my fiction published, but I think I’m on the verge. :) I too have received some good notes about my stories (“this is good, but we’re overbooked on lovecraftian fiction. Please submit again…”), etc. I submitted my novel to the Wizards of the Coast open call for their new book imprint, and am anxiously awaiting a reply.
Anyway, hang in there James, and every other writer on these boards! It’s a tough business to break into (a good deal of you have already broken in!) and we all need to stick together!

James Sutter Contributor |

It’s a tough business to break into (a good deal of you have already broken in!) and we all need to stick together!
Hear hear! Fiction's been pretty good to me thus far (though my ratio of published journalistic/gaming things to straight-up fiction is still probably 20:1), but it's definitely one of the toughest fields out there. I read somewhere that the odds of supporting yourself solely as a fiction writer are about a thousand times worse than supporting yourself as a rock star, and having done a bit of both, I believe it wholeheartedly.
So yeah - keep the subs comin', share advice with other writers on these boards, and let's all slam out such great material that the market will explode and writers and game designers will become the new pop culture icons. (Hey, c'mon... it could totally happen....)
-James

Chris Wissel - WerePlatypus |

Actually, just out of curiosity, who else on here publishes outside of the gaming genre? Fiction? Newspapers? Music stuff? I'm always interested in seeing what kind of crossover we get with any given field.
-Li'l James
Well. . . I won't say published yet, but I've been sending out the same two screenplays for the last 4 years, with no luck. I have a third half written, but to be honest. . . I haven't bothered with a single line in a long while. A writer writes all the time. . . which is why I'm in social services. :)
I do think that adventure writing and screenwriting are very similar in scope though. Neither are self-contained, finished works. . . but rather bare-bone outlines whose final evolution may only be completed through others, whether they be directors/actors or GMs/PCs.
Working on either gives me a very cool sense of possibility. . . since any character or setting has the ability to flow in an almost any direction, dependant on the actions of those who play it, or produce it (depending on what we're talking about).

Chris Wissel - WerePlatypus |

Nice to see you haven't been crushed under a pile of moving boxes, Chris.
Bruises, scrapes, and a miracuous incident where I fell out of the moving truck and landed without serious injury. . . other than that, I survived! :)
I have a "Tip for Contributors": Move to a strange town with no immediate job. As son as the unpacking's done (almost!), I'm going to have some copious freetime on my hands.

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Hey,
I'm feeling particularly thick and foolish - could someone point me to the Dungeon submissions guidelines? I know it's there (I've seen it before), but dang if I can find it right now. Many thanks to anyone and everyone who responds.
By-the-by, this thread has been incredibly helpful. Thank you again.

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Hey,
I'm feeling particularly thick and foolish - could someone point me to the Dungeon submissions guidelines? I know it's there (I've seen it before), but dang if I can find it right now. Many thanks to anyone and everyone who responds.By-the-by, this thread has been incredibly helpful. Thank you again.
HA! No sooner did I ask someone to point me in the right direction "out loud", the web parted and the links appeared! There're in the FAQ! ("duurrrrr...")
Sigh.
Thanks to everyone anyways.

Steve Greer Contributor |

Hey,
I read the guidelines and have two quick questions. A friend and I collaborated on an adventure idea -Question #1:
Is this a problem from Paizo's standpoint?Question #2:
Do you need a SDF from both of us or one SDF with both our signatures?
Patrick, hopefull the Paizo boys don't mind me butting in to answer this... I'm currently in that situation and can tell you that, yes, they need an SDF signed from both of you. If you can send you together with both of your sigs and info on it, they'll accept that. But if you have to send separate ones, they're cool with that too.

Jeremy Walker Contributor |

Hey,
I read the guidelines and have two quick questions. A friend and I collaborated on an adventure idea -Question #1:
Is this a problem from Paizo's standpoint?
no
Question #2:
Do you need a SDF from both of us or one SDF with both our signatures?
Either will work fine, but we do need both of your signatures.
And thank you Steve for your more timely response.

Steve Greer Contributor |

Patrick Walsh wrote:Hey,
I read the guidelines and have two quick questions. A friend and I collaborated on an adventure idea -Question #1:
Is this a problem from Paizo's standpoint?
no
Patrick Walsh wrote:
Question #2:
Do you need a SDF from both of us or one SDF with both our signatures?
Either will work fine, but we do need both of your signatures.
And thank you Steve for your more timely response.
Yep, just call me the "Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! I know! I know!" guy :)

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Zherog wrote:That's a bit long, Steve. How 'bout I call you Oooikik for short? :DHeh! As long as it doesn't mean A-hole or buttlicker or something in Gaelic, sure.
No, I think it is eskimo for "he who knows much but is unseemly in his manner of indicating that he wishes to share his knowledge with the class". ;D
Efficient language those eskimos have...

johnny.quest |

Efficient language those eskimos have...
Languages, according to dictionary.com:
"Eskimo has come under strong attack in recent years for its supposed offensiveness, and many Americans today either avoid this term or feel uneasy using it. It is widely known that Inuit, a term of ethnic pride, offers an acceptable alternative, but it is less well understood that Inuit cannot substitute for Eskimo in all cases, being restricted in usage to the Inuit-speaking peoples of Arctic Canada and parts of Greenland. In Alaska and Arctic Siberia, where Inuit is not spoken, the comparable terms are Inupiaq and Yupik, neither of which has gained as wide a currency in English as Inuit. While use of these terms is often preferable when speaking of the appropriate linguistic group, none of them can be used of the Eskimoan peoples as a whole; the only inclusive term remains Eskimo. The claim that Eskimo is offensive is based primarily on a popular but disputed etymology tracing its origin to an Abenaki word meaning 'eaters of raw meat.' Though modern linguists speculate that the term actually derives from a Montagnais word referring to the manner of lacing a snowshoe, the matter remains undecided, and meanwhile many English speakers have learned to perceive Eskimo as a derogatory term invented by unfriendly outsiders in scornful reference to their neighbors' unsophisticated eating habits."
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=eskimo

HK |
So James Sutter,
What's it take to get into the RPG editing field? Any tips in that area? Aside from a sharp wit, a command of grammar, and a woeful lack of respect for the Oxford Comma (which can be forgiven) what are the 'Powers That Be' looking for in an intern?
And continuing with the original theme of the thread...
I submitted perhaps a dozen (or more) ideas to Dungeon a couple years back, three made it past the query, and out of those three only one went to print.
Actually, another *almost* made it to print; one of the other two made it past the original draft, cleared the first revision, sat patiently on Thomasson's desk waiting for the final stamp of approval before at last being picked up by Erik Mona after the Great Transition.
Erik Mona returned it to me with one line scrawled across the front page in red ink: "Too much history- too hard to slip casually into an existing campaign." Or something to that effect. ;)
So, lesson learned boys and girls: Above all else, "good" or "acceptable" is subjective, so never take it to heart. What was acceptable to the first editor (Thomasson) was not acceptable to the second (Mona).
Incidentally, the one adventure that did get published had an incredible amount of backstory, a long and tangled history, and an Empire with several kingdoms! Try fitting that casually into an existing campaign! =) But in all fairness, it was probably overlooked because Thomasson liked the story, and all of the fluff was important for the new Prestige Class I had written.
As far as other writings go... I have one 70,000 word adventure and one 130,000 word (and counting!) sourcebook in the works for another gaming company, plus I recently contributed about a dozen ideas to Expedious Retreat's "Fantasy Seeds" line (though accepted, I guess, they haven't been used yet).
But the real reason that inspired me to post on here is that I have been considering a career in the editing field once this whole college thing is over. So Mr. Sutter... any tips? ;)

Hal Maclean Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 |

6. No more Borg adventures.
Just got issue 127 and I really, really, liked the "The Hive". But I agree, one of that type is enough for the forseeable future.
I was planning on pitching one quite similar to it until I read that "no borg" comment. Apparently lots of others were toying with similar notions. Great minds?
(greatly twisted minds... :) )

Nicolas Logue Contributor |

Erik Mona wrote:
6. No more Borg adventures.
Just got issue 127 and I really, really, liked the "The Hive". But I agree, one of that type is enough for the forseeable future.
I was planning on pitching one quite similar to it until I read that "no borg" comment. Apparently lots of others were toying with similar notions. Great minds?
(greatly twisted minds... :) )
Great minds think alike...and so do ours. ;-)
Great Crit Threat in issue 127 Hal! I really dug it, and thought the idea was very creative.

Hal Maclean Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 |

Great minds think alike...and so do ours. ;-)
Great Crit Threat in issue 127 Hal! I really dug it, and thought the idea was very creative.
Thanks :)
I suspect the guys thought it fit the theme of shapechanging and deception.
(or at least if it didn't they certainly will say so now :) )
Though from their perspective probably the best part of running it was that they no longer have to put up with any more of my nagging emails about its status :)

palbhar |
Lovely :)
Great thread, I'm really impressed by the care you take in helping your potential writers, guys.
I'm reading your topic from France and I can say it's kinda funny because the emphazises seems to be reversed here. Let me tell you how I became a repressed D&D writer: I just kept sending D&D submissions here and there and they did hit the target, meaning that I got publisher calls and contracts, except that all they did want was for other RPGs. Their idea was: "wow, if he can do THAT with such a lousy game, he must be excellent".
Well, I did accept (shame but better than nuttin' I daresay) and thing is, I'm writing for 3 different RPGs and my good ole D&D adventures, the ones that made them call me in the first place are now permanently glued to my shelves (bin?) :(. My problem is that the french D&D market's mainly about translating US products or focusing upon eerie unplayable backgrounds designed by friends for friends (take a look at french-designed adventures sales in France and laugh).
Actually, I'm really considering translating and sending my adventures to you chaps. Any comment?

Jeremy Walker Contributor |

Actually, I'm really considering translating and sending my adventures to you chaps. Any comment?
Well, based on your post, I'm not sure. If the adventures have been published before (even if it was for another game system) then we can't use them.
However, if they haven't then of course we would be interested in taking a look. However, I strongly encourage you to send queries and wait until you hear back from us before you do all that work translating them. After all, if we can't use it (for whatever reason) that's a lot of time spent for nothing.

palbhar |
Sure.
The good thing is that none of my D&D adventures has been published so far in any game system. As if they were just "teasers" or say, parts of my author's presentation.
So yes, I read this whole thread as well as a score of others and your submission guidelines and I think I have a good grasp of the CR for getting published in DUNGEON by now :).
And well...you'll get my regular queries soon enough :) I'll translate in case of hurrah, that's it.
Thanxs.

Jeremy Walker Contributor |

Hey. So what's the going wisdom on submitting multiple adventure queries before hearing on the first? Do multiple simultaneous submissions dilute one's chances of publishing?
Simply put: no. In fact, the more queries you submit, the better chance you have of finding an idea we like and are not using, so the more the better.

Koldoon |

Hey. So what's the going wisdom on submitting multiple adventure queries before hearing on the first? Do multiple simultaneous submissions dilute one's chances of publishing?
deClench -
When I made my first submission I waited almost two months, and then started asking this same question on these message boards. DON'T WAIT. If I had waited for the rejection of my first submission (I submitted in November, I got the rejection in June) I might not have continued writing. Always keep submitting. Keep material in front of the editors. Submit Campaign Workbooks as well as adventure queries - they are evaluated separately, so this means you will often get the rejections at different times. This gives you a cushion, knowledge that something is still in front of editors that could be approved. Okay, I'm rambling this morning, so I'll stop now.
- Ashavan

Richard Pett Contributor |

Keep material in front of the editors. Submit Campaign Workbooks as well as adventure queries - they are evaluated separately, so this means you will often get the rejections at different times.
- Ashavan
Hey Ashavan,
caught up with you after a month of borrowing friends computers after my phone wires were blown in an electric storm (Steve Greer's pet quasi elementals were to blame).
So,
submissions that are eye catching and original such as Ashavan Doyons 'merchant madness' must also help - the Brotherhood of Dung Sweepers are due to play an important part in the new styes campaign as contacts between the PCs and the Kenku 'Collectors' - grave-robbers working mostly for the Commissures; the golem-makers.
It was a great article Ashavan - looking forward to seeing your first adventure.
Rich

Koldoon |

Hey Ashavan,caught up with you after a month of borrowing friends computers after my phone wires were blown in an electric storm (Steve Greer's pet quasi elementals were to blame).
So,
submissions that are eye catching and original such as Ashavan Doyons 'merchant madness' must also help - the Brotherhood of Dung Sweepers are due to play an important part in the new styes campaign as contacts between the PCs and the Kenku 'Collectors' - grave-robbers working mostly for the Commissures; the golem-makers.
It was a great article Ashavan - looking forward to seeing your first adventure.
Rich
Richard -
I don't know... between Steve's quasi-elementals and Greg V's ropers, you seem to be assaulted from all directions!
I'm sorry to hear about the electrical troubles... I was wondering why we hadn't seen you on the boards much lately. I'm also pleased to hear that you enjoyed the Merchant Madness article! I had a lot of fun writing that one and I'm thrilled to hear from so many people letting me know they've made use of it (or plan to).
I was due to have a second campaign workbook in 128, but I haven't received a contract for it yet, so I'm thinking it may have been bumped due to the out-of-space monster. As for adventures... they just finished assessing the latest pile and I only have one in the pile this time around. Here's to hoping it gets the green light. In the meantime, I'm going to follow my own advice and try to get at least one query in before I get the notice from Jeremy so that I still have something in the pile.
- Ashavan

Hal Maclean Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 |

I'm also pleased to hear that you enjoyed the Merchant Madness article! I had a lot of fun writing that one and I'm thrilled to hear from so many people letting me know they've made use of it (or plan to).
I was due to have a second campaign workbook in 128, but I haven't received a contract for it yet, so I'm thinking it may have been bumped due to the out-of-space monster.
- Ashavan
I enjoyed "Merchant Madness" too, thought it nicely walked that tightrope between presenting an interesting NPC and a nice adventure hook, not easy to do as I've learned from my own attempts :)
But on the subject of contracts missing and otherwise...
The way I discovered that my first Campaign Workbook had made it into print with Dungeon was by opening up the issue and seeing it there :)
(similarly I found out that my first article to actually make it into print at Dragon had been accepted by getting a contract for it)
Stuff happens. Contracts get lost in mail, people forget to give you official notice, etc.
Some sort of quick status update email might be in order though.
Only one adventure pitch this time around?
tsk, tsk, tsk :)

Koldoon |

Stuff happens. Contracts get lost in mail, people forget to give you official notice, etc.Some sort of quick status update email might be in order though.
Only one adventure pitch this time around?
tsk, tsk, tsk :)
Hal -
Well, I've been trying my hand at ecology queries for Dragon and it's been consuming a fair amount of time. Also, I've submitted a few more campaign workbook/critical threat articles.
I know, I know. Lame excuses. Steve should be sending over those quasi-elementals to whip me into shape.
- Ashavan
EDIT - PS - Did I mention that I work for the college and have been buried by the incoming class??? I don't think I did. Still, they're excuses, I just need to make my writing a higher priority.

James Sutter Contributor |

So James Sutter,
What's it take to get into the RPG editing field? Any tips in that area? Aside from a sharp wit, a command of grammar, and a woeful lack of respect for the Oxford Comma (which can be forgiven) what are the 'Powers That Be' looking for in an intern?
And continuing with the original theme of the thread...
I submitted perhaps a dozen (or more) ideas to Dungeon a couple years back, three made it past the query, and out of those three only one went to print.
Actually, another *almost* made it to print; one of the other two made it past the original draft, cleared the first revision, sat patiently on Thomasson's desk waiting for the final stamp of approval before at last being picked up by Erik Mona after the Great Transition.
Erik Mona returned it to me with one line scrawled across the front page in red ink: "Too much history- too hard to slip casually into an existing campaign." Or something to that effect. ;)
So, lesson learned boys and girls: Above all else, "good" or "acceptable" is subjective, so never take it to heart. What was acceptable to the first editor (Thomasson) was not acceptable to the second (Mona).
Incidentally, the one adventure that did get published had an incredible amount of backstory, a long and tangled history, and an Empire with several kingdoms! Try fitting that casually into an existing campaign! =) But in all fairness, it was probably overlooked because Thomasson liked the story, and all of the fluff was important for the new Prestige Class I had written.
As far as other writings go... I have one 70,000 word adventure and one 130,000 word (and counting!) sourcebook in the works for another gaming company, plus I recently contributed about a dozen ideas to Expedious Retreat's "Fantasy Seeds" line (though accepted, I guess, they haven't been used yet).
But the real reason that inspired me to post on here is that I have been considering a career in the editing field once this whole college thing is over. So Mr. Sutter... any...
Sorry it took me so long to reply - I've been in South America for the last several weeks.
Uh, as far as breaking into the RPG biz goes, I'm probably not the best one to hit up for tips (seeing as, of everyone on the editorial staff here, I'm the newest to the industry) but I'd say that, as with anything else, the most important thing is persistence. I originally learned that from playing/writing about local rock bands - the number one factor in whether or not a band gets signed isn't the quality of their music - it's whether or not they stay together. The same is true with writing.
After "sticking with it", my next best piece of advice would be to write and edit as much as possible for whoever you can. I started out as a newspaper rock critic, moved to doing features (and then on to doing the bizarre features that other reporters wouldn't/couldn't touch, thus earning me the official title of "Daily Slut" at the UW newspaper), interned at The Stranger (an alternative Seattle weekly) and freelanced for them, freelanced for some music webzines, founded and edited an erotica magazine, and did a bunch of column-style community pieces for the most suburban newspaper ever. (Important note: suburban newspapers pay better than any RPG freelance you could possibly get.) At the same time, I was also writing and publishing short fiction pieces anywhere possible (still am - it's by far the most challenging place to get published). So basically, I've taken a shotgun spread approach to entering the writing world, and it seems to be working pretty well. If nothing else, it's helped me figure out which types of writing I enjoy doing the most and want to focus on.
You'll notice, however, that there isn't any RPG stuff in there. As much as I love D&D, I hadn't thought about doing it professionally since middle school. After I graduated, however, I was looking for a magazine job and ran across Amazing Stories, which I checked out and decided would be absolutely perfect... only to then discover that Paizo was based in my hometown and ran Dragon as Dungeon as well. I immediately cold-called them (well, cold-emailed, at least) stating my credentials and how I would do pretty much any job to get my foot in the door. Lisa called me in to meet her and took me up on it, starting me out gathering images and descriptions for the budding webstore, and it all went from there. Again, as with any industry, getting your foot in the door is the biggest step - I highly recommend picking the companies you want to work with and contacting them to see what they have available, rather than waiting around for someone to post a job opening. Not only are there probably people at that company who could really use an intern, but you'll stand out a lot more when you aren't in the middle of a huge pack of ad-responders. I've had two of the greatest internships ever, and both were cold-calls.
So, yeah... getting into editing? My only advice (aside from reading a ton and learning as much as you can about the writing process, of course) is to be persistent and prolific. College newspapers and other small-time publications are a great place to start - getting those initial clips is incredibly important.
As for what the Powers That Be are looking for - the RPG field wants what every company wants from its interns. Intelligence, motivation, organization, good people skills... and the ability to enthusiastically work your ass off at the most demeaning and boring tasks imagineable. :)
Hope that helps, and best of luck!
-James

HK |
James Sutter,
Thanks for responding! You have an impressive, and thoroughly eclectic, resume'! When I was a teenager, issues of The Stranger was considered a prized trophy from trips to the "big city." I live in Aberdeen, which is about a two hour drive from Seattle, and mementos were highly valued among our sad, sad little group of friends...
Anyway, thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. =)

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Quiston for the important people: Would you consider taking a high level adventure using a big baddie, say the Tarrasuqui(spelling) My parents and I are currently working on an adventure to submit
*fingers, toes, and tounge crossed*
A tarrasque adventure is definately something I'd love to run in Dungeon. HOWEVER! It's also something that we can more or less only really do once, since it's a unique monster and all. Therefore... a tarrasque adventure would have to be really good to get into the magazine. I mean really good. I'd rather never run a tarrasque adventure than run one that wasn't great, is what I'm getting at.

Onrie |

Onrie wrote:A tarrasque adventure is definately something I'd love to run in Dungeon. HOWEVER! It's also something that we can more or less only really do once, since it's a unique monster and all. Therefore... a tarrasque adventure would have to be really good to get into the magazine. I mean really good. I'd rather never run a tarrasque adventure than run one that wasn't great, is what I'm getting at.Quiston for the important people: Would you consider taking a high level adventure using a big baddie, say the Tarrasuqui(spelling) My parents and I are currently working on an adventure to submit
*fingers, toes, and tounge crossed*
I accept your challange to become a pro writer at age 13 and make the best danged tarrasque adventure ever!
I'll be back.

Chris Wissel - WerePlatypus |

I accept your challange to become a pro writer at age 13 and make the best danged tarrasque adventure ever!I'll be back.
Do it, man. It's about time we had the Tarrasque in the mag. I'll be pulling for you.
"Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world. . . "

sad_genius |

A quick question to the editors and regular contributors:
How strict is the 1/2 page limit for proposal outlines? I'm currently editing down my proposal to fit on two double spaced pages, am aware of the editors' positive opinions on hitting word counts, but don't want to cut too much out and make the proposal seem less appealing. Any hints or insider tips?
Much appreciated;
Martyn.

Koldoon |

A quick question to the editors and regular contributors:
How strict is the 1/2 page limit for proposal outlines? I'm currently editing down my proposal to fit on two double spaced pages, am aware of the editors' positive opinions on hitting word counts, but don't want to cut too much out and make the proposal seem less appealing. Any hints or insider tips?
Much appreciated;
Martyn.
Martyn -
Stick to the 2 page limit unless the editors have given you feedback indicating they want, or will accept, more. Really what you have is one paragraph to catch their attention - if you succeed at that then you've bought their attention for the remaining page and a half. Use the space wisely.
- Ashavan

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Proposals should be no more than 2 pages. Don't take this as a challenge to fit as many words on a page with no margins and 2 pont font. A better description might be to say: "Keep your proposals to no more than 1,000 words."
If you can't fit your adventure proposal in 1,000 words, it's too complicated an adventure anyway and we wouldn't have the space to run it in the magazine.
If we like your basic idea but think we need a longer proposal, we'll ask for it.

Zherog Contributor |

1000 words? I don't think 1000 words would fit on two pages, double spaced - at least not using any sort of normal margins and font size. I just checked the one proposal I had in the last batch. I didn't quite reach to the end of the second page, and it has 492 words.
I would have loved to have had twice as many words available! ;)

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I think, then, it's time to lift the "double-spaced" restriction from proposals. In this crazy modern age with computers and word processors, there are a lot of old-school conventions that just don't make sense any more. One of them is double-spacing. As long as your proposal is easy to read and clear, there's no need to perpetuate this archaic practice. Double-spacing's original purpose was to provide the reader or editor room to write notes. Now, since 99% of our submissions are handled electronically, there's no need for this.
Another thing that needs to go away: using 2 spaces after the end of every sentance. Please only use 1 space after that period.
That all said... if you can convey your adventure proposal in a clear manner in 492 words, that's actually great! The main reason we limit the length of proposals is because we just don't have time to read long ones. We get 2–4 proposals a day on average, and usually only have a couple days a month to really devote to reading them. On a busy month, when we can get up to 100 proposals or more (which is 200 pages of reading, give or take), it takes a long time to read them.
So what I'm saying is: keep them proposals short and sweet!

Zherog Contributor |

I think, then, it's time to lift the "double-spaced" restriction from proposals. In this crazy modern age with computers and word processors, there are a lot of old-school conventions that just don't make sense any more. One of them is double-spacing. As long as your proposal is easy to read and clear, there's no need to perpetuate this archaic practice. Double-spacing's original purpose was to provide the reader or editor room to write notes. Now, since 99% of our submissions are handled electronically, there's no need for this.
Excellent - I dislike double spacing. It looks ugly. ;) I figured, though, that the double spacing requirement was to give room for notes - I remember having to double space term papers and such in school, to give the teacher room to use the dreaded red pen. :D
Another thing that needs to go away: using 2 spaces after the end of every sentance. Please only use 1 space after that period.
Ack! *chokes on his beverage* My brain'll go into convulsions over that one - I've been using the two space thing ever since I learned to type, back in the 7th grade (for those keeping score at home, that was over 20 years ago on a manual typewriter).
* makes mental note: when submitting to Dungeon, use search-replace to find double spaces and make them single spaces. *
That all said... if you can convey your adventure proposal in a clear manner in 492 words, that's actually great! The main reason we limit the length of proposals is because we just don't have time to read long ones. We get 2–4 proposals a day on average, and usually only have a couple days a month to really devote to reading them. On a busy month, when we can get up to 100 proposals or more (which is 200 pages of reading, give or take), it takes a long time to read them.
Well, I haven't received my e-mail from Jeremy yet saying yay or nay to my proposal - so it remains to be seen if I was able to make my proposal clearly in 492 words. ;)
So what I'm saying is: keep them proposals short and sweet!
I've been working on a few. I'll endeavor to stick to 2 pages and 1000 words. It sounds like a good combination of limits.
As has been said a bunch o' times in this thread, thanks for the continued feedback and support you guys provide here on the forums. It's greatly appreciated, and quite helpful.

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I'm curious - would you allow an author to use a pseudonym or pen name? Or must we suffer the trials and tribulations of publishing superstardom each time we visit our FLGS?
We do allow authors to use pseudonyms, although we have to use your real name on contracts and correspondance (for obvious reasons). But as far as what name you want to appear in your byline in the article, pseudonyms are fine.