Adam Daigle Developer |
Kalindlara Contributor |
Generic Villain |
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I find it ironic that, with the Mad Arab, and now Paris, the AP based on works that are all about how insignificant Earth is looks like it's going to be the most Earth-Centric AP yet.
Regarding Paris:
The PCs go to a "twisted version" of the City of Light, where the Tower of Eiffel is black. Carcosa is full of such warped versions of other locales, including Thrushmoor and (I think?) Azlant.
That said, this AP was pretty much guaranteed to be heavily influenced by Earth, simply because the many contributors to the Cthulhu Mythos set their stories there. Paizo could have easily made R'lyeh a sunken city out in the Obari Ocean, or placed the underworld of K'n-yan anywhere in the Darklands. But they wanted to maintain the fidelity of the source material. And so, Pathfinder's Earth is the same hotbed of eldritch horrors as Lovecraft's Earth. I mean, at least eight of the 20 god-things listed in the Elder Mythos Article from In Search of Sanity can be found there. Can't swing a dead cat there without whacking an Elder God.
Generic Villain |
An article about Golarion's past sounds interesting.
I'm guessing it will have a heavy Mythos edge. Right now we know that, at some point long ago, Shub-Niggurath plopped a few million neothelids onto Golarion. That the Kellids of ancient Ustalav were all about the Old Cults. Thassilon liked poking around in Leng and summoning space monsters. And... not a whole lot else, off the top of my head.
Really interested in seeing what other Lovecraftian madness lurks in Golarion's past.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
Marco Massoudi |
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Oops... the article about the "past" of Golarion ended up not being a thing; instead, this one has a double-sized "Continuing the Campaign" section I wrote that includes all sorts of additional Lovecrafty info.
I'd be interested in that past of Golarion article too.
But continuing the campaign is also useful.Maybe in a future book like "Mythos Revisited" or "Mythos Bestiary"?
Generic Villain |
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I'm interested to see if there's much life left on Earth if there's all these Old Ones sitting on top of it...
Continuing the adventure should be "Hey let's go save this weird blue planet!"
One overarching theme in the cosmic horror genre is that Earth is doomed. It's not a matter of if, but when. Right now, however, most of the Elder Gods are either imprisoned in some manner (Cthulhu, Ghatanothoa), seriously hindered by weird rules (Hastur, Ithaqua), or just don't care about our planet in the slightest (Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth). The problem is, at some unspecified future time those first two categories will become free, and just like Fenrir busting his chains, that's the signal for the end times.
Until then though, Earth is pretty safe. I mean except for Nyarlathotep, a completely unfettered and supremely powerful god who has a malignant fascination with humanity, and likes to screw with us all the time. Yeah, besides him we're okay. Theoretically speaking.
Generic Villain |
Isn't Humankind, at least on Earth, fated to become a Great Old One ?
Eh, getting a bit off topic and I'll probably ramble so:
Not entirely sure what you mean. Like, evolve into Elder Gods ourselves? I am by no means an expert on the Cthulhu Mythos in its entirety, but I've read everything by Lovecraft himself and that's not mentioned. In short, humans are to Great Old Ones (and even hyper-advanced races like mi-go and yithians) what ants are to humans. Mostly, you ignore an ant. If you're a scientist, you could research, study, and experiment on them. An exterminator, or just a guy sick of all the ants coming into his house? It's squish time. But no, in all likelihood you are oblivious to them because they are incidental. You are also as alien to them in thought and emotion as they are to you.
Perhaps, after millions of years of evolution, humans will become something more. Maybe then we'll be worthy of attention - and in all likelihood, immediately regret it and wish we could go back to being ignored.
Again, I can only really speak to Lovecraft's work, and a bit of Chambers' and Derleth's (though I don't like Derleth's take on things at all). There are many authors who have added to the Mythos, and some could certainly have different interpretations.
Wikipedia has a solid description of cosmic horror as a genre.
The Raven Black |
The Raven Black wrote:Isn't Humankind, at least on Earth, fated to become a Great Old One ?Eh, getting a bit off topic and I'll probably ramble so:
** spoiler omitted **
Found the bit I was misremembering. it's from Call of Chtulhu (the short piece) :
"That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom."
Kalindlara Contributor |
Kalindlara Contributor |
Oops... the article about the "past" of Golarion ended up not being a thing; instead, this one has a double-sized "Continuing the Campaign" section I wrote that includes all sorts of additional Lovecrafty info.
Was the Azlanti city cut as well? It's not mentioned at all in the Campaign Outline in Book 1.
Generic Villain |
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Found the bit I was misremembering. it's from Call of Chtulhu (the short piece) :
Another common refrain in Lovecraftian fiction is that the Great Old Ones don't care at all about their mortal worshipers. When the stars are right, everyone becomes food for the gods. You're the high priest of Cthulhu and you just managed to release him from imprisonment? Great job! He eats you first, but still, cool story bro. And honestly it's death if the priest is lucky - there are way worse fates awaiting those foolish few who would court madness. 'I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream' level stuff.
MannyGoblin |
I have seen some writers go a bit too far into the 'Bwahahaha!' area and not in the sense that is the Pulp/Noir type game where you have two-fisted heroes in ripped shirts punching out cultists who wear impractical hats The old BLOOD BROTHERS system had several scenarios using the COC system where people could play in Lost Worlds with Dinos and zombies and it was pretty cool.
Bondanalloy |
So it's confirmed the main big otherworldy threat is the king in yellow?
My players are super generous and letting me make their entire characters, to add to the amnesia and horror element. I'm planning on fully integrating the pc's backstories into the campaign, including one as a traitor who will be at first unaware she's part of the main old one's cult. I may have to wait til all books are out to implement it..
Kalindlara Contributor |
CorvusMask |
CorvusMask wrote:Since we are speaking of Lovecraft tropes, couple of my players are annoyed that Cthulhu is CR 30 because according to them he is the Raditz of Cthulhu Mythos :DIs Raditz something like Jozik z Bażin?
He is a Dragon Ball (its martial arts shonen comedy/battle manga/anime) villain :P
To open it up, he is the main character's evil brother who shows up from space to reveal that they are both aliens. Note that Dragon Ball was up to that point a long running series already so thats pretty out of nowhere. He overwhelms main character to the point he has to join up with previous main villain to beat him and once they (barely) manage to do so, he reveals that he is in fact far weaker than other aliens who are coming after him.
So basically, like Cthulhu, his point of story is to exists to show how universe is far larger than previously thought, they are far weaker than anything else in that larger universe AND they both got defeated by being impaled by something :D
(note that fandom wise, in Dragon Ball Abridged(aka parody redub of the anime) he is basically considered measuring pole of how weak you are)
Marco Massoudi |
What makes you say that, Marco? For all we know, we could be getting a different form of Hastur. (Some stories paint him as a Cthulhu-like tentacled horror, and this seems like the perfect volume to stat up the version found in Carcosa itself.)
Three things actually:
1. It makes no sense imo, because we already have the Bestiary 4 Hastur at CR 29 and so far every book contained a NEW Great Old One we havn´t seen statted before. No matter if the characters are already level 17 or 18 at the end, even a lower CR 25 King in Yellow (there are no lower CR GOOs)would kill them.
One that evolves into an Elder God is well beyond the ability to fight and wouldn´t be statted.
2. The deal with Chaosium allows the statting of creations by Frank Belknap Long and Clark Ashton Smith, which can only be done in this AP.
Statting up a GOO that could be done elsewhere would be a waste of money and opportunity (and we probably already get a non-Chaosium Great Old One with Xhamen-Dor in book 5).
3. James Jacobs wrote something about statting creations of Long and Smith and if i remember correctly, we didn´t get anything from Long yet.
Of course i could be wrong. ;-)
CorvusMask |
I'm pretty sure 99% of this particular board is unfamiliar with Dragon Ball or their knowledge is limited to "it's about dragon balls and one guy is called Goku". Besides, Cthulhu was never the top dog of Mythos, that's what Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth are for.
That was the point of comparison though: Cthulhu is lowest in Mythos Hierarchy really, yet he is so popular that he is somehow viable competitor in mythos based games, for example in Cthulhu Wars Cthulhu's faction can take on Nyarlathotep, Shub-Niggurath and Hastur :p They were complaining about him being highest CR monster when there are other great old ones at lower CR since they think Cthulhu shouldn't be able to compete with them.
(Raditz isn't popular, thats not the point, point was that Lovecraft version of Cthulhu is like Radits from story point of view while fandom version of Cthulhu is somehow most important great old one)
Also, just to check, if 99% of the folks here aren't familiar with anime, how can people in the forum constantly complain about things being too anime if they haven't ever watched anime to know what is anime? xD Thats just weird
The Gold Sovereign |
Kalindlara wrote:What makes you say that, Marco? For all we know, we could be getting a different form of Hastur. (Some stories paint him as a Cthulhu-like tentacled horror, and this seems like the perfect volume to stat up the version found in Carcosa itself.)Three things actually:
1. It makes no sense imo, because we already have the Bestiary 4 Hastur at CR 29 and so far every book contained a NEW Great Old One we havn´t seen statted before. No matter if the characters are already level 17 or 18 at the end, even a lower CR 25 King in Yellow (there are no lower CR GOOs)would kill them.
One that evolves into an Elder God is well beyond the ability to fight and wouldn´t be statted.2. The deal with Chaosium allows the statting of creations by Frank Belknap Long and Clark Ashton Smith, which can only be done in this AP.
Statting up a GOO that could be done elsewhere would be a waste of money and opportunity (and we probably already get a non-Chaosium Great Old One with Xhamen-Dor in book 5).3. James Jacobs wrote something about statting creations of Long and Smith and if i remember correctly, we didn´t get anything from Long yet.
Of course i could be wrong. ;-)
James Jacobs also wrote that the GOO that got illustrations in the first volume of the AP (In Research of Sanity) were less likely to be stated in the adventure bestiaries, and The Horror from the Hills was one of the illustrated mythos.
Xhamen-Dor has a rule in the adventure and an article as well, so that's why this wouldn't apply to the Inmost Blot.
I would guess the last GOO will be either Ghatanothoa or Orgesh. I'm hoping for The Faceless God.
But, as you said, I could be wrong. XD
Also, just to check, if 99% of the folks here aren't familiar with anime, how can people in the forum constantly complain about things being too anime if they haven't ever watched anime to know what is anime? xD Thats just weird
I'm sure they are talking about the art style, are they not? I used to see people complaining about trolls being "to cartoonish" or "too anime"
James Jacobs Creative Director |
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I would guess the last GOO will be either Ghatanothoa or Orgesh. I'm hoping for The Faceless God..
Very close... but also keep this in mind.
Ghatanothoa has nearly a century of inerta over Orgesh when it comes to waiting for a Pathfinder stat block. He's got seniority, in other words.
Marco Massoudi |
Where is the point in statting up a creature who´s view turns your skin to immobile stone?
I guess you get a (ridiculously high) fortitude save to avoid that, but for me that pretty much kills the appeal of Ghatanothoa.
Having to blindfold or even blind yourself and working with blindfight or blindsense, blindsight etc. would be much more horrifying.