Pathfinder Player Companion: Legacy of Dragons (PFRPG)

Well the book will be too small to have dragon based archetypes/paths for every class.

Classes I would like to see get dragon themed archetypes or ability paths.
Bard
Druid
Kineticist
Hunter
Oracle
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Psychic
Ranger
Samurai
Shaman
Spiritualist
Summoner
Witch

Well the book will be too small to have dragon based archetypes/paths for every class.

Classes I would like to see get dragon themed archetypes or ability paths.
Bard
Druid
Kineticist
Hunter
Oracle
Monk
Ninja
Paladin
Psychic
Ranger
Samurai
Shaman
Spiritualist
Summoner
Witch

Ooh, dragon-themed Kineticists (breath weapon, hands don't have to be free!), Oracles (dragon Mystery!), Monks, Shamen, Summoners (dragon eidolon!) and Witches (dragon Pact Patron?). Fun ideas!

Maybe if we all think politely at Tim & Paris, we can psychically nudge them to do a dragon-themed Wayfinder issue down the road, filled with fan-created stuff that expands on the options in LoD and also adds new stuff (fiction, lore, feats, magic, archetypes/PrC, new critters...)

Maybe if we all think politely at Tim & Paris, we can psychically nudge them to do a dragon-themed Wayfinder issue down the road, filled with fan-created stuff that expands on the options in LoD and also adds new stuff (fiction, lore, feats, magic, archetypes/PrC, new critters...)

and/or at the customers here to buy and like LoD, then at paizo to make an RPG Line Hardcover about Dragon stuff.

I would love to see Pathfinder's version the Draconomicon.

The monk, ninja and samurai archetypes should be themed on the imperial dragons.

The psychic and spiritualist dragon related archetypes/paths should be based on the esoteric dragons.

Of course the Paladin archetype should be metallic dragon based.

The type of dragons for kineticist one should be based your element.

Most of the others could be any type but someone has to have the outer dragons as a theme, maybe the oracle.

I see no reason why monk archetypes would have to be themed on imperial dragons, but it would be surely nice to have some more TianXia flavored stuff.

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I hope you;re not too hyped as well! We'll do our best, but it's only 32 pages, and a lot of different people want a lot of different things!

But I am *really* proud of what we've done with it.

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I hope you;re not too hyped as well! We'll do our best, but it's only 32 pages, and a lot of different people want a lot of different things!

But I am *really* proud of what we've done with it.

I have seen some of what Owen and Crystal have done with this one, and I think there's going to be stuff you guys will really like. Also I may have helped out with something in here. You'll have to wait and see...Don't worry, July will be here sooner than you think!

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I hope you;re not too hyped as well! We'll do our best, but it's only 32 pages, and a lot of different people want a lot of different things!

But I am *really* proud of what we've done with it.

I have seen some of what Owen and Crystal have done with this one, and I think there's going to be stuff you guys will really like. Also I may have helped out with something in here. You'll have to wait and see...Don't worry, July will be here sooner than you think!

Product Arrival Isn't Zoon enOugh :)

'Product Arrival Isn't Zippy(also slang for fast) Enough' would have worked better.

Do we know when the final cover will be released?

Dragon-empowered paladin, please. I would squee so hard.

Great idea, but since there are metallic and chromatics, and Apsu/Dahak perhaps a single archetype, swapping out equivalent class abilities, applicable to both Paladin and Antipaladin.

Hopefully there will be at least some stuff related to primal(well any but Umbral), imperial, outer, and especially esoteric dragons.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I hope you;re not too hyped as well! We'll do our best, but it's only 32 pages, and a lot of different people want a lot of different things!

But I am *really* proud of what we've done with it.

I have seen some of what Owen and Crystal have done with this one, and I think there's going to be stuff you guys will really like. Also I may have helped out with something in here. You'll have to wait and see...Don't worry, July will be here sooner than you think!

Dracokineticist confirmed. ;) Good call JiCi

The more I think about that, the more badass it sounds.

Mark Seifter wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I hope you;re not too hyped as well! We'll do our best, but it's only 32 pages, and a lot of different people want a lot of different things!

But I am *really* proud of what we've done with it.

I have seen some of what Owen and Crystal have done with this one, and I think there's going to be stuff you guys will really like. Also I may have helped out with something in here. You'll have to wait and see...Don't worry, July will be here sooner than you think!

Dracokineticist confirmed. ;) Good call JiCi

The more I think about that, the more badass it sounds.

Not confirmed. I do write things that aren't for the kineticist. ;)

Dracokineticist, would that be a archetype or a new element;)

Xethik wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope I am not getting too hyped for this one. But my imagination of what could be in this book is too strong.

I hope you;re not too hyped as well! We'll do our best, but it's only 32 pages, and a lot of different people want a lot of different things!

But I am *really* proud of what we've done with it.

I have seen some of what Owen and Crystal have done with this one, and I think there's going to be stuff you guys will really like. Also I may have helped out with something in here. You'll have to wait and see...Don't worry, July will be here sooner than you think!

Dracokineticist confirmed. ;) Good call JiCi

The more I think about that, the more badass it sounds.

Not confirmed. I do write things that aren't for the kineticist. ;)

But do you have to accept burn to do so?

Dracokineticist, would that be a archetype or a new element;)

I prefer the word Dragon-Kin.

Interestingly, I feel like Kineticist creates a really good caste for making a monster race as PC viable. Maybe someday we will get like a hybrid class geared towards that.

Dracokineticist, would that be a archetype or a new element ;)

I think it would be better as an archetype myself, tie the various elements to the appropriate dragons via Draconic Focus instead of Elemental Focus, get a shape infusion that lets you breathe your element, not needing free hands, but possibly temporarily increasing burn costs immediately afterwards that go back down as time passes (to emulate the normal cooldown but letting you beat it if you really need to), get a natural armor bonus instead of the normal elemental defense, if you take expanded defense once you're at 7th or so, get DR magic/X instead of getting another element's defense, and at 15th, do the same to get spell resistance. Might possibly some custom utility talents for picking up natural weapons, dragon wings, a fear aura, and perhaps some other custom things related to particular dragon types. Well, that all's probably too complicated for a single archetype in a Player's Companion...

Will certainly be interesting to see what is in this book, though!

Not confirmed. I do write things that aren't for the kineticist. ;)

It's true, he does. There were a couple of things I decided I *really* wanted Mark's system mastery for.

Things people have sometimes claimed are impossible to do in a balanced way.

Things I wanted to make sure I didn't write. :)

Mark Seifter wrote:

Not confirmed. I do write things that aren't for the kineticist. ;)

It's true, he does. There were a couple of things I decided I *really* wanted Mark's system mastery for.

Things people have sometimes claimed are impossible to do in a balanced way.

Things I wanted to make sure I didn't write. :)

Ooooooh, I get it. We are supposed to pitchfork the sacrifical lamb.

Things people have sometimes claimed are impossible to do in a balanced way.

You don't mean... spinning around while standing on one foot?

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

Not confirmed. I do write things that aren't for the kineticist. ;)

It's true, he does. There were a couple of things I decided I *really* wanted Mark's system mastery for.

Things people have sometimes claimed are impossible to do in a balanced way.

Things I wanted to make sure I didn't write. :)

Ooooooh, I get it. We are supposed to pitchfork the sacrifical lamb.

Never!

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

Well, I had a good run of things. ;)

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

Well, I had a good run of things. ;)

You are perfectly safe Thursty. You haven't reached a point where it's meet and right to eat your heart to absorb your power.

Thurston Hillman wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

Well, I had a good run of things. ;)

You are perfectly safe Thursty. You haven't reached a point where it's meet and right to eat your heart to absorb your power.

....
Not quiiiiiiiiiiiite yes...

Thursty has a heart?

Thurston Hillman wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

Well, I had a good run of things. ;)

You are perfectly safe Thursty. You haven't reached a point where it's meet and right to eat your heart to absorb your power.

....
Not quiiiiiiiiiiiite yes...

You can't eat peoples' hearts!

They're way too gamy! I'd recommend the liver, maybe pair it with a nice wine and some legumes.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Thurston Hillman wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

Well, I had a good run of things. ;)

You are perfectly safe Thursty. You haven't reached a point where it's meet and right to eat your heart to absorb your power.

....
Not quiiiiiiiiiiiite yes...

You can't eat peoples' hearts!

They're way too gamy! I'd recommend the liver, maybe pair it with a nice wine and some legumes.

I've had beef-heart. I figure writer-heart should work with the same recipe.

Never!

If I ever suggest someone who worked on a book I helped develop should be sacrificed, you'll know I have been replaced by a pod person.

Normally I would be disappointed to put down a pitchfork, but I can't help but be nice to Mark after Kin.

Maybe you could get draconic traits with some modified version of elemental overflow.

Well, if we do get Kineticist and Summoner archetypes, I hope they can rise to the bar set by Dragon Tamer(Summoner, Midgard: Book of Drakes) and Dragon Pact(Kineticist, Kineticists of Porphyra II).

And that, for the love of Aspu, the Summoner Archetype is not another Unchained(but really even more chained) Summoner...

Really? Comparing 3PP to Paizo in a PAIZO thread?! Really bad manners, folks. They make the game, they make the rules.

There is a reason I do not use 3PP. It is often too good...as in OP. Unbalancing. It is also rarely allowed at any table I play, largely for those reasons.

I'm still looking forward to perhaps having things like Heroes of the Wild offered: Dragon touched much like Fey touched.

Really? Comparing 3PP to Paizo in a PAIZO thread?! Really bad manners, folks. They make the game, they make the rules.

I really don't think Paizo or their freelancers see it that way. They have a lot of roots in the third party market!

There is a reason I do not use 3PP. It is often too good...as in OP. Unbalancing. It is also rarely allowed at any table I play, largely for those reasons.

While I agree that 3PP can be pretty unbalancing - and is more frequently overpowered or poorly worded when compared to Paizo products - that isn't always the case. And I don't think it is a super relevant discussion here.

And that, for the love of Aspu, the Summoner Archetype is not another Unchained(but really even more chained) Summoner...

I think the RPG team has set their stance that the Unchained Summoner is to be the preferred Summoner moving forward. The Chained Summoner is too good. I actually think the Chained Summoner is a good example of something first party being on the too strong side.

Really? Comparing 3PP to Paizo in a PAIZO thread?! Really bad manners, folks. They make the game, they make the rules.

If you think there's something wrong with bringing up 3p in a thread, I suggest you flag the post and move on. There's nothing against the rules from bringing it up, so I'm not really sure I see the problem here.

There is a reason I do not use 3PP. It is often too good...as in OP. Unbalancing. It is also rarely allowed at any table I play, largely for those reasons.

Your complaints about 3p are your own, and aren't really relevant to the conversation here.

On topic, I've been really looking forward to getting more dragon support. Things like the draconomicon from 3.5 were awesome books to me, as was Dragon Magic, and I'm hoping this book is more something along those lines, giving the power of dragons to PCs. I will admit it could be cool if we received an effective draconic template for PCs, as playing a draconic lizardfolk is basically everything I've wanted in life.

On topic, I've been really looking forward to getting more dragon support. Things like the draconomicon from 3.5 were awesome books to me, as was Dragon Magic, and I'm hoping this book is more something along those lines, giving the power of dragons to PCs. I will admit it could be cool if we received an effective draconic template for PCs, as playing a draconic lizardfolk is basically everything I've wanted in life.

Yesysyeyeysyesyesyesyesyesyesyes.

A little more then a month away:)

Mark Seifter wrote:

Not confirmed. I do write things that aren't for the kineticist. ;)

It's true, he does. There were a couple of things I decided I *really* wanted Mark's system mastery for.

Things people have sometimes claimed are impossible to do in a balanced way.

Things I wanted to make sure I didn't write. :)

Dragon as a mount ?

I have all faith that Mark can pull it off :-)

On topic, I've been really looking forward to getting more dragon support. Things like the draconomicon from 3.5 were awesome books to me, as was Dragon Magic, and I'm hoping this book is more something along those lines, giving the power of dragons to PCs.

As one of the authors of Dragon Magic, I'll note that while I love that book, it did have a BIT more room... like 128 pages more room. And, of course, Golarion isn't like the campaigns Dragon Magic was designed for.

So while I am VERY excited about what we've done with Legacy of Dragons, it's obviously not going to have anything like the range of options stuffed into a 160 page hardback. :)

The options will be ve3ry nice I assume.

As one of the authors of Dragon Magic, I'll note that while I love that book, it did have a BIT more room... like 128 pages more room. And, of course, Golarion isn't like the campaigns Dragon Magic was designed for.

So while I am VERY excited about what we've done with Legacy of Dragons, it's obviously not going to have anything like the range of options stuffed into a 160 page hardback. :)

You mean a 20-30 page softcover won't have nearly as much content as a 160 page hardcover?! HOW DARE YOU!?!?!?!

Kidding aside, I was just talking about some of the ideas in it. Something like a dragonborn of bahamut template could be a lot of fun or just some draconic subraces would be cool, but that's just the kind of thing that I enjoyed from Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon, the kind of thing that helped draw people into the lore and such. I'm sure the book has plenty of cool stuff though, I mean it IS about dragons after all.

And, of course, Golarion isn't like the campaigns Dragon Magic was designed for.

Yea, unfortunately the lack of dragons in Golarion that makes me wonder if I should just switch to 5e or find a 3rd party setting to use. For me, dragons are the best part of fantasy. This player's companion should hold me over for a while though :)

Maybe we get variant on the only Dragon PC Race in the game.

Apparently Wyvaran is supposed to cover that, sadly. I mentioned earlier in this thread how much I'd enjoy a draconic Dragon Race(not humanoid in shape), and got a reply that such a race was very unlikely to happen in a player companion. Might get something akin to Skinwalkers though.

Now that I think about it, a Dragon variant for Skinwalker could be very, very cool!

Apparently Wyvaran is supposed to cover that, sadly. I mentioned earlier in this thread how much I'd enjoy a draconic Dragon Race(not humanoid in shape), and got a reply that such a race was very unlikely to happen in a player companion. Might get something akin to Skinwalkers though.

Now that I think about it, a Dragon variant for Skinwalker could be very, very cool!

As cool as Draconic Skinwalkers would be, this would require the existence of actual weredragons. Some of my favorite books have been those with "weredragons", but they don't really fit very well with the current definition of Lycanthrope in Pathfinder. Dragon's aren't animals, so weredragons shouldn't exist.

As often as dragons shapeshift though, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to include such offspring as a more common result than the half-dragon template. I might just toy around with this idea.

I was never a fan of "weredragons", though I like dragons that can turn into humanoids, animals, plants, etc.

As often as dragons shapeshift though, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to include such offspring as a more common result than the half-dragon template. I might just toy around with this idea.

Dragon x Lycanthrope? Where the Dragon take the role of the "base Animal"

Similar thing could be done for Half-Celestial + Lycanthrope, and Half-Fiend + Lycanthrope.

Nice, almost 300 posts and we haven't even seen the product description update yet.

Nice, almost 300 posts and we haven't even seen the product description update yet.

Yes, this shows that a lot of people want more dragon info.