Pathfinder Battles—Reign of Winter

I am angry at myself for believing in Paizo's ability to get Wizkids to improve their QC. I am angry I trusted them both enough to buy a full case. :-(

Shame on Wizkids for allowing this garbage to ship out.

I am angry at myself for believing in Paizo's ability to get WoTC to improve their QC. I am angry I trusted them both enough to buy a full case. :-(

Shame on WoTC for allowing this garbage to ship out.

WotC had nothing to do with this set. Wizkids is a completely different company from WotC. Wizkids also took over DDM which is when DDM took a nose dive in quality.

WotC had nothing to do with this set. Wizkids is a completely different company from WotC.

You are right, I corrected my post. But my error in using the wrong company name does not change the fact there is once again several real bad paint jobs that do not even come close to the preview pictures.

Hmmm, feeling a little down on this one. I was really keen to get mine, but reading these posts, and some from other forums, I'm not certain anymore. I really wish wizkids would put the time into faces, well NPCs in general. Part of me really hopes the decline isn't due to the upcoming WotC minis. Previews for that line look pretty good, lots of detail and NPCs look to have some well detailed faces, much like the first 3 sets for pathfinder ( Runelords, skull and shattered). then again these are proofs and the reign minis looked good in the proofs as well - especially Feiya.

Of course I'll wait until mine are in hand, I really want a lot of the minis from this set. I will be in for the next anyway since it basically contains more minis I want ( and that Shemhazian!)

Wizkids also took over DDM which is when DDM took a nose dive in quality.

Are you sure? I know they've recently been announced as the licensee for the upcoming D&D minis but I thought that was a new thing.

Steve Geddes it IS a new thing. Wizkids was never associated before with Dungeons and Dragons before the recent news that they are going to be producing the new line for WotC. So not sure where Alex is getting that information from. WotC was in charge of the minis the entire time.

This is disappointing in hearing the paint job complaints cropping up again. I was hoping this was resolved with WotR.

I would agree that with the less figures in the set, the case should be less packs. I have way too many of all of the commons and uncommons, and even some of the rares.

WotR: opening the last brick I needed a good 15-18 charcters

RoW: 1/2 way through my case (IE twice as many packs to left to open as the above metric) I only had 6 minis left to get a complete set. I could have saved $200+ and gotten two bricks + the singles I needed (as it is I'm only like 8 pieces away from a second complete set from one case)

One thing to keep in mind, buying 2 bricks separately is not the same as opening up two bricks from a sealed case. The high percentage of getting a full set is based on buying a case. If you buy the bricks separately, you could very possibly get two bricks that have almost the same minis.

Where I wish the minis were kept at 55, I understand why it was done. But one good thing (for me) is I will probably only be buying one case from now on as it seems you can pretty much get a complete set with many to spare.

Although if the bad paint jobs continue to happen, I may need to rethink on continuing to purchase the minis, however much I am a plastic addict.

Is there a way that Paizo can fire wizkids and go with a different miniature producing company? If the cost is equivalent maybe it's time to make a change.

Having all the PBM made by Reaper would make me super happy but seems unlikely to happen.

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

I'm hearing crazy things like having Reaper do the minis, as if a company that sends minis in resin and metal unpainted would ever be able to create a pregenerated pre-painted plastic mini line, given labor costs in Texas... crazy. A Totally different company and product.

I have a large minis collection from all the sets, and even the D&D sets.

On mass produced painted minis, these paint jobs are about par with the majority of the minis.

There were a couple of sets (Skull and Shackles and Shattered Star) that had, in general, better paint jobs on the humans. There were a couple humans with someone that painted really good eyes. That wasn't the case with this set, but it didn't bother me because :

These are mass produced plastic minis. You're not going to get Games Workshop pro-paint level paint jobs on plastic minis that are mass produced. If you want really nice jobs, touch it up yourself, it's not that difficult to redo a face for example. And for your main characters, buy pro painted metal minis. You see how much those go for, way more than this set costs.

So let's get real.

In general, Pathfinder minis have better sculpts, but tend to be prone to breakage. I have way more broken Pathfinder minis than D&D minis, regardless of paint job. That to me is the real issue. I don't like the minis whith the plastic rods. Especially half my Worldwound drakes are all snapped off so far. They break way too easily. On the other hand, at least the pathfinder minis don't have floppy bases like the old Beholders, but I just feel they're brittle, and fragile. that is my main complaint.

But in general, they beat the pants off most of the older D&D minis. Especially the use of translucent plastic, and the scuplts and designs are way better.

Yes, I did end up with a few more goats, owls than I would have preferred, but in general, I was much happier with the sculpts in this release. The male ice troll in particular was awesome, I liked Baba Yaga's detail, and Queen Elvanna and the Dragon Rider was probably the best in the set. The White Dragon is also pretty awesome. A great "Ancient" or "Wyrm" type White dragon. I have one in every age category now.

You can't fairly expect to get perfectly painted minis when whoever is painting them is probably making barely any money and is under pressure to meet time constraints. I think instead people should be focused on improving the plastic type used so that we get less brittle minis. You can always touch up one or two bad minis like Feiya, who was pretty badly done, fairly easily. You can't fix the plastic. The packaging in general was much smarter this time around, I had only one mini with a pre-broken base, easily fixed with glue.

In general, I loved this set, I loved the adventure path and using this set with it is pretty special, but I would like to see less minis we'll never use (Owls ? Goats ? Foxes ? The Goat and the Fox could have been part of the Feiya and Radovan minis IMO and give us more mirror men ! They were dope) in the future. If the paint jobs on common human faces were improved, I'd have really no complaints. It's way cheaper to buy a case of these now than to build up minis on the after market anyway.

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

Well, that's a pretty bad Feiya. I have one (and only one) that I got from the set that isn't perfect either, a bad mouth, it's not quite that level of bad tho... :/

So yeah, I would say that one is bad luck, and under par, BUT...

To me, the point of these cases is if you don't like using 2D counters and you are a completist and you run games and want all 3D minis. So, it's cool we got one more iconic, I have some better painted iconics and some worse ones...

To me, if you really, really are actually using Feiya as a NPC or PC and you need a Feiya that looks awesome, I'd buy the Reaper one and either paint it or get a pro-painter to do a commission. You'd be a lot prouder, etc, especially since metal and to a less extent resin tends to be a better paint material than these polycarbonate mass production models.

So, I can understand if there are some bad paint jobs out there. but I mean the worst paint jobs were faces on the russian guards in this set, and at the scale you're likely to use them, it's not really noticeable in the game.

You lay out the figures and if you're having a great game, you aren't focusing down on the faces of the figures too much. They're russian guards..they look like russian guards... That to me is the value of these cases.

I mean I've bought a badly painted Warduke mini for 40 bucks on the aftermarket where the seller used the reference paint job image. You can always sell your mini on eBay like that. I touched him up (made his faceplate dark instead of silver, give a metal wash to make it better and redid the red eyes and he's tolerable now. But still, that's expensive. I didn't have much choice. I had to have Warduke.

I think you have to take the good with the bad on these types of products. We are lucky we even have a company willing to produce these sets, and the fact we've gotten so many from Paizo and the quality of them, I'm just happy with that, so I think bitterly complaining about individual bad paint jobs when we are on the verge of 3D minis being completely out of reach or super expensive on the secondary market, I think perspective is in order, that is all I want to say.

I don't want to apologize for bad paint jobs, I know there are probably people out there with better and worse examples but I've bought many, many sets and I found this one to be in general, par for the course with what I'd expect.

Fair enough Zorka, we all have our standards we expect and levels we can live with.

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

I am not okay with that.

Zorka I do agree with one of your points very strongly. The easy break plastic is awful. It is prett ymuch the only reason I have never bought a case of PBM. It doesn't matter to me how much detail you get if that detail will just snap off.

I have been subscribed to Pathfinder Battles since the beginning. I have had two or three cases of every set. I have no problems with the minis at all and wish there were more sets coming out than there currently are.

But the distribution of the current set may get me to lower my subscription to one. Two was a lot of goats and ravens and owls. And other things that were just too many. On the other hand there were a few I would have liked more of... But I can buy those on the secondary market.

danielc wrote:

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

I am not okay with that.

My Feiya looks almost identical.

Zorka, I agree with many of your points. In general, this line has had minis which are superior to other lines which have been offered in the past. Even though I wrote a negative post, I feel that the majority of the miniatures I got in this set are well-sculpted and have acceptable paint jobs. Even the miniatures with horribly painted faces may have other features which are very well done.
However, we have seen better in previous sets. So I feel justified in asking for something better. Especially from a "marquee" miniature like the only iconic in the set. Also, this is the first time in Battles that I have received badly painted Large miniatures.

I have been subscribed to Pathfinder Battles since the beginning. I have had two or three cases of every set. I have no problems with the minis at all and wish there were more sets coming out than there currently are.

But the distribution of the current set may get me to lower my subscription to one. Two was a lot of goats and ravens and owls. And other things that were just too many. On the other hand there were a few I would have liked more of... But I can buy those on the secondary market.

The change. In distribution is a big deal to me too. If there's a way to revert to a larger number of minis, I'd strongly recommend giving it another look. I like subscribing to everything, but its harder to justify when you're almost certain to buy a significant number of figures you'll never use.

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

My oh my, that is pretty terrible. LOL. Sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, but that paint job.

I can only hope mine won't be as bad.

I would honestly send that back and ask for a replacement.

My Iconic witch is every bit that bad too. Honestly this is so bad Wizkids should be replacing these as a "broken" mini.

I've got a russian gas mask dude missing an arm, and the witch is STILL more unacceptable.

danielc wrote:

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

My oh my, that is pretty terrible. LOL. Sorry, I shouldn't be laughing, but that paint job.

I can only hope mine won't be as bad.

I would honestly send that back and ask for a replacement.

That...

That is bad. Comically bad.

I mean, she looks happy, with the smile and all, but it looks bad.

I can't wait to see mine. :D

-Skeld

I couldn't agree more with Zorka. A while ago (when those immense complaints about LoG hit the forums) I calculated how much I pay on average for a figure in a case (keep in mind that was before the new pricing model here on paizo.com - now it would be even lower).

Depending on how you spread the cost between Large and Medium/Small figures I ended up with something like $5-$7 and $1.50-$2.50 respectively. Which translates (in terms of local minimum wage) to about 12-15 minutes for a Medium/Small figure if we were to ignore any other type of production cost (development, sculpt, paint, packaging etc.) as well as distribution, merchant profit and such and put all the money I pay towards labour for painting.

I have gotten better (and faster) since I started painting miniatures but it still takes me about an hour to two for relatively simple medium/small figures. Far more for Large ones (I spent a whole weekend painting my first [Reaper's PF Red Dragon]). Eyes are still the hardest thing to do and I usually have to do them three times over and easily spent about 10 minutes just on that and would include 5 or more (at the very least 3) paint steps.

Yes, danielc, your Feiya is particularly bad and it hurts even more as she is a rare. But on the other hand that picture of her face is blown up to about five times her actual size, which makes it look worse than it would on the table, and again for about $2.50 I sometimes wonder how high a standard one can justifiably have if one is only willing to pay so much for it to be delivered.

Please take this posting with a grain of salt (or maybe a pinch). Of course I would like for the faces to look better out of the box. But do I think that the quality has actually decreased over time? I'm not too sure, looking back at some older figures. Expectations of one set outdoing the last have definitely increased, though.

Guys, don't get me wrong, I do accept that my PPM will never look as good as the custom painted minis I pay $20 each for. But what I do think is reasonable is for the final mini I get to look at least close to the previewed mini or to the picture on the box.

I am not asking for the quality of paint job I get when I pay one of the pro painters to paint. I am asking for at least close to the preview or to the picture they show on the box.

If they are going to show X quality in the preview and on the packaging that should reasonably set my expectation. Regardless of what X quality is. If the preview or the photo on the box had looked odd and disfigured well then we got what we were shown.

But I also understand and agree with many of the points Isil-zha and Zorka have made. I agree that we should not have too high of expectations. Maybe the real question is; Are the previews and marketing photos on the packages too unrealistic and thus need to change to reflect the real quality that we should expect?

I think we need to keep in mind that (most of?) the preview images are paint masters, which are going to be better than the average outcome of the mass production process (because there are a lot more hours going into them and they are not mass produced).

But if you look at this previewed Feiya and scale down your picture to the same size which is only slightly bigger than "life size Feiya" the difference is not quite as big anymore. Again, I'm not arguing that yours isn't particularly bad, but the paint master only has black dots as eyes (albeit smaller and less "comicky" than yours) and a simple line as a mouth (albeit finer and seemingly of a reddish hue). [Edit: Mine is luckily somewhere in the middle between yours and the preview]

To me the nose (of the sculpt) doesn't quite live up to the preview which makes her face look really flat and intensifies the impression of a bad paint job. Overall pronounced facial features in the sculpt could help make faces look a lot better even without increasing paint quality much.

The Tower Girl is a very good example for that. The mouth is not painted at all but still manages to be convincing. The features of the sculpt's face work out nicely even without the red ink they use lately which yields a lot of "burnt face" syndrome because it is applied too generously, similar to some of the washes.

But all that is, in my opinion, not nearly as bad as it is sometimes made out to be in some of the posts we get to read on these boards every once in a while.

Edit: I'm not trying to make excuses, I think there are ways to improve usage of washes and inks without raising production costs and wizkids hasn't found the happy medium between too much wash (Machine Gunner) and too little (Wolliped) just yet. But speaking in overall quality consistency, there are humanoids suffering from "blob-face" in each set (though not necessarily all multiples, if any, share that trait) going back all the way to the half-elf cleric in H&M. So I simply fail to see the "decline" that is claimed so often lately.

My witch was also pretty disappointing, and a number of the other medium humanoids were similarly bad. The larger creatures turned out okay. Overall, I do have to say I am pondering my sub at this point. Only the case incentive for the next set is really giving me pause.

Maybe the real question is; Are the previews and marketing photos on the packages too unrealistic and thus need to change to reflect the real quality that we should expect?

I agree with this in theory, but I suspect Erik doesn't really see the actual, finished product until a week or two before we do. It's probably just one of those things that's always going to be a little off. Even if you told the preview painters to "do it quickly, like the real thing" I suspect they'd be bound to take just a little more care.

I think we need to keep in mind that (most of?) the preview images are paint masters, which are going to be better than the average outcome of the mass production process (because there are a lot more hours going into them and they are not mass produced).

But if you look at this previewed Feiya and scale down your picture to the same size which is only slightly bigger than "life size Feiya" the difference is not quite as big anymore. Again, I'm not arguing that yours isn't particularly bad, but the paint master only has black dots as eyes (albeit smaller and less "comicky" than yours) and a simple line as a mouth (albeit finer and seemingly of a reddish hue). [Edit: Mine is luckily somewhere in the middle between yours and the preview]

Actually, I feel the difference is quite big between Daniel’s photo and the previewed image, even if his photo wasn’t already scaled up. I would have been completely fine with the previewed image (single black dot eyes and line mouth), but with Daniel’s Feiya, that actually looks like the face was melted.

Guys, don't get me wrong, I do accept that my PPM will never look as good as the custom painted minis I pay $20 each for. But what I do think is reasonable is for the final mini I get to look at least close to the previewed mini or to the picture on the box.

I am not asking for the quality of paint job I get when I pay one of the pro painters to paint. I am asking for at least close to the preview or to the picture they show on the box.

If they are going to show X quality in the preview and on the packaging that should reasonably set my expectation. Regardless of what X quality is. If the preview or the photo on the box had looked odd and disfigured well then we got what we were shown.

But I also understand and agree with many of the points Isil-zha and Zorka have made. I agree that we should not have too high of expectations. Maybe the real question is; Are the previews and marketing photos on the packages too unrealistic and thus need to change to reflect the real quality that we should expect?

This.

I don’t feel it’s unreasonable to expect we get the miniatures that are previewed/advertised, especially what is shown on the box. Most people don’t peruse the internet looking at the previews, only the dedicated collectors like ourselves. For your everyday consumer, they are going to go by what they see on the box.

Just think of this for a moment. A mother is shopping for her 12 yr old son who roleplays, or just likes to play with miniatures in general. She sees PFB boxes at the local game store, sees the good quality pictures on the booster boxes and thinks this is a good choice.

However, when the boy opens it up at home, he sees the example of Feiya, looks at the booster box photo, and is quite bummed. And the mother, she is quite upset (understandably so).

Granted, this is only theoretical example, but my point is what is advertised to the general consumer should be what we receive, or at least close to it.

I am hoping the example of Daniel’s Feiya is a rare exception, but then someone else indicated their Feiya is the same. So I hope this doesn’t become more widespread, as I can only think of Queen Ileosa of Legends of Golarian.

That said, I have found a majority of the miniatures look very good to stunning. So we know that quality can be achieved, and therefore I don’t feel we should make excuses because they are plastic minis compared to resin, or that they are mass produced.

I agree, you aren’t going to have professional quality, and that expectation is unreasonable. But again, you should receive what is advertised to you.

Isil-zha wrote:

I think we need to keep in mind that (most of?) the preview images are paint masters, which are going to be better than the average outcome of the mass production process (because there are a lot more hours going into them and they are not mass produced).

But if you look at this previewed Feiya and scale down your picture to the same size which is only slightly bigger than "life size Feiya" the difference is not quite as big anymore. Again, I'm not arguing that yours isn't particularly bad, but the paint master only has black dots as eyes (albeit smaller and less "comicky" than yours) and a simple line as a mouth (albeit finer and seemingly of a reddish hue). [Edit: Mine is luckily somewhere in the middle between yours and the preview]

Actually, I feel the difference is quite big between Daniel’s photo and the previewed image, even if his photo wasn’t already scaled up. I would have been completely fine with the previewed image (single black dot eyes and line mouth), but with Daniel’s Feiya, that actually looks like the face was melted.

danielc wrote:

Guys, don't get me wrong, I do accept that my PPM will never look as good as the custom painted minis I pay $20 each for. But what I do think is reasonable is for the final mini I get to look at least close to the previewed mini or to the picture on the box.

I am not asking for the quality of paint job I get when I pay one of the pro painters to paint. I am asking for at least close to the preview or to the picture they show on the box.

If they are going to show X quality in the preview and on the packaging that should reasonably set my expectation. Regardless of what X quality is. If the preview or the photo on the box had looked odd and disfigured well then we got what we were shown.

But I also understand and agree with many of the points Isil-zha and Zorka have made. I agree that we should not have too high of expectations. Maybe the

...

It is a rare incident despite what is shown for examples on here with Daniel's Feiya. Mine is not quite that bad, it is not so great that I am going to leave it like that as I am going to touch it up myself when I get a chance. It is not that big a deal to me.

But in your example though with the mother and 12 year old boy. Trust me... a Mother buying mini's for her son that role plays is not going to care that much if the boy does not care. :D

But yea the minis should pretty much match what is on the boxes. If they don't match exactly it is not "False" advertising... just a bad paint job is all. It happens, though it shouldn't.

Well, that was just an example, but one that could happen. And in my example, the boy ‘did’ care.

But besides even that, I agree with you that the aim should be that the consumer receives that is advertised. The issue with Queen Ileosa was quite widespread, and at least this one appears doesn’t seem as bad (as many), but it is something that should be brought up to try to eliminate it coming up again for future sets.

There's a certain amount of marketing that is acceptable and expected when previewing an upcoming product.

We insist on previews of the miniatures. Erik/Paizo responds by showing us what they have on hand at the time of the preview (paint masters, proofs, etc.). I personally don't believe there's any sort of intentional misleading going on.

However, I also think it's folly for anyone to expect that any given product they buy is going to look exactly like it does on the package or in the advertisement, especially when that product is well-understood to be mass-produced and hand-painted.

We know the previews are a "thing Wizkids painted one of" and the actual miniature we recieve is a "thing Wizkids painted thousands of." Personally, I try to temper my expectations when I look at the previews. It would be awesome if every miniature looked exactly like the preview, but reality doesn't work that way.

-Skeld

Skeld I feel the same way. I try and temper my expectations to match the mass production and understanding that they ARE still hand-painted. If I wanted professional or near professional paint job I would hire or paint them myself. I do not expect that they paint job is going to match the paint master.

I am not saying that everyone should accept when a mini is painted as bad as the example Daniel gave us though. No one should.. but we SHOULD accept that that one example is NOT the normal.

I first want to be clear that in my example, or post in general, was I ever indicating that it was false advertising. That was first brought up in Deanoth’s post, and then again in Skeld’s. I have never felt there was anything deliberate on Paizo’s, or WizKids, part on misleading us what is being produced.

I was just indicating that what ‘is’ advertised to us, the final product should hopefully be there, or at close to that. There have been phrases thrown around like “every miniature looking exactly like the paint master” or “professionally painted” in what shouldn’t be expected. And I want to clarify that is not what I was getting at. I realize mistakes happen, but they should be very few and far between.

But again, I have never felt there was any deception on their part. But to say “mistakes happen” and just to accept that from time to time with Daniel’s example of Feiya, or with Queen Ileosa, that should never be acceptable and should be monitored on both Paizo’s and WizKids part to keep it from happening again.

I have actually seen pics on ebay of some acceptable Freiya minis ( ie the exact opposite of the one shown). I really do think wizkids need to work on NPC/PC faces and detail. They are a significant part of each set and seem to be the worst translated from proof to final, weird when you consider how well done the monsters are. Also I feel sorry for the folks at paizo, they must get just as disappointed as we do. Realistically though I think the stinker list may reach a dozen across the 5 sets from Runelords to reign, that's about 12 in 250 minis. Overall I'm still pretty happy with the line.

I don't think there's any intent to deceive on anyone's part, mass production has some issues.

I don't think there's any intent to deceive on anyone's part, mass production has some issues.

I agree and to be clear I never said there was an intent to deceive. Nor did I say the mini I get had to match the preview 100%. All I said was I felt it was reasonable for me to expect the mini I get to be *close* to the previewed figure. I am a reasonable person and I do understand the final product might not live up to all the expectations that can be built up by the previews. And the figures that are close are wonderful and remain in my collection.

I'm sorry, but no. There needs to be quality control on Wizkids' end. That Freiya should never have been packaged.

It's embarrassingly bad, even Vic agrees it's not ok.

If they can't meet the quantities needed in whatever deadline they set, then they need to change their delivery date and not take shortcuts on the paint jobs.

I will stop buying their product if they continue to put out s++$ty paint jobs.

I will continue to buy their product if they take an extra month or two to get it right.

It's that simple.

I can also understand that not all minis are going to be painted with precision. But I too was a bit disappointed in the painting of the RoW set. We have been pretty lucky with only one or two okayish paint jobs in previous sets, but this one we had several with paint issues. Our Queen Elvanna is gorgeous except the blue splotch across her entire face. Only one of our Machine gunmen look good with the rest having big face painting issues. The rest of the humans are a mixed bag, (though the Triaxians look good).

Most of our large figures paint jobs look great with the exception of two of the Centaur archers with a hair color in face and flesh color in hair issue. Those I can live with or may be able to repaint to fix it.

That said, the giant weasel and the Dragonkin figures are by far our favorites (and the gargantuan white dragon is pretty cool too).

We only experienced one breakage and that was one of the falcon's white peg snapped just below the joint with the falcon body.

danielc wrote:

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

I am not okay with that.

So last night Erik, Lisa and I went down to the warehouse and pulled random singles, as well as every single Feiya we had on hand.

The good news is that our spot checks of figures other than Feiya went pretty well. The bad news is that about half of our Feiyas were pretty bad, and a couple of them approached the level of the photo above. This is especially frustrating because WizKids knows how important our iconic characters are, and they have regularly allowed us to add a few more paint ops to the iconics to make them even a bit nicer than the average rare.

Erik is meeting with WizKids at Origins this week, and he is bringing along our three worst Feiyas to show them. (I have also pointed them to this thread; that includes their CEO and their production manager.)

Vic Wertz wrote:

danielc wrote:

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

I am not okay with that.

So last night Erik, Lisa and I went down to the warehouse and pulled random singles, as well as every single Feiya we had on hand.

The good news is that our spot checks of figures other than Feiya went pretty well. The bad news is that about half of our Feiyas were pretty bad, and a couple of them approached the level of the photo above. This is especially frustrating because WizKids knows important our iconic characters are, and they have regularly allowed us to add a few more paint ops to the iconics to make them even a bit nicer than the average rare.

Erik is meeting with WizKids at Origins this week, and he is bringing along our three worst Feiyas to show them. (I have also pointed them to this thread; that includes their CEO and their production manager.)

That's awesome, Vic.

Carry on.

-Skeld

I also had some quality issues with the set sadly :(. My Feiya was just as bad if not worse than the picture above, and quite a few of my minis especially the Russian soldiers and pale guards came without arms or bases. Mistakes on the minis are understandable for sure, but the amount of issues mine had, mainly with pieces completely missing, made me come to the product page here to see what was up.

It would've been okay if the pieces were at least in the bubble wrap (things break, it's understandable) they came in and I would've just glued them no problem, but they were nowhere to be seen.

At least I have some wounded Russian soldier minis now :/

So last night Erik, Lisa and I went down to the warehouse and pulled random singles, as well as every single Feiya we had on hand.

The good news is that our spot checks of figures other than Feiya went pretty well. The bad news is that about half of our Feiyas were pretty bad, and a couple of them approached the level of the photo above. This is especially frustrating because WizKids knows how important our iconic characters are, and they have regularly allowed us to add a few more paint ops to the iconics to make them even a bit nicer than the average rare.

Erik is meeting with WizKids at Origins this week, and he is bringing along our three worst Feiyas to show them. (I have also pointed them to this thread; that includes their CEO and their production manager.)

Thank You for the update and I respect that you shared this with us. I wish Erik luck in his conversations with Wizkids.

So last night Erik, Lisa and I went down to the warehouse and pulled random singles, as well as every single Feiya we had on hand.

The good news is that our spot checks of figures other than Feiya went pretty well. The bad news is that about half of our Feiyas were pretty bad, and a couple of them approached the level of the photo above. This is especially frustrating because WizKids knows how important our iconic characters are, and they have regularly allowed us to add a few more paint ops to the iconics to make them even a bit nicer than the average rare.

Erik is meeting with WizKids at Origins this week, and he is bringing along our three worst Feiyas to show them. (I have also pointed them to this thread; that includes their CEO and their production manager.)

This is what makes Paizo the best company in the gaming business. Well, not the only reason, but how many large companies do you know where the CEO, CCO and CTO personally follow up on a product issue and then also keep their customers personally informed on the status and what they are doing to resolve it.

With another company you might receive an automated email from customer service saying “We appreciate your business and are doing our best to resolve your problem”, but that’s usually about the best you will get.

This is one of the reasons I buy from Paizo.

I just wanted you to know that we see this and that it is appreciated, Vic.

Well,

I have bought over 12 individual boosters of S&S, the quality is generally very good, however, when their bad, they are terrible, requiring many touch ups and repaints.

The double-ups are completely frustrating, what do you do with 4 x Rat Swarms, 2 x Cannon Golems and 3 x Selissa (water naga) figures?

It's all in the marketing model, I do not like the idea of paying for a random box of figures. I tried it and I have to say that I will wait for individual figs to be released.

I for one would really prefer they just offered us the individual figures at a reasonable price, whatever that may be. Then we can purchase what we like and pay for what we expect.

I also play Minis-Battles like "Arcane Legions", and out of 500 odd figures, not one is missing anything and the paint jobs are excellent.
I don't know which company made them but the QC is outstanding.

Everything else Paizo sells is top notch quality and I will continue paying for their literature. On that, very well done and thanks!

Final note: I can live with and expect some quality issues with mass-painting, after all I can touch them up, but the figures missing arms and extremities should not have made it past QC. Sorry! Just my honest opinion.

Final note: I can live with and expect some quality issues with mass-painting, after all I can touch them up, but the figures missing arms and extremities should not have made it past QC. Sorry! Just my honest opinion.

No need to apologize for a completely reasonable opinion. No, actually, "opinion" isn't even the right word—it's a *fact*: Missing parts should not make it past Quality Control.

It's all in the marketing model, I do not like the idea of paying for a random box of figures. I tried it and I have to say that I will wait for individual figs to be released.

I for one would really prefer they just offered us the individual figures at a reasonable price, whatever that may be. Then we can purchase what we like and pay for what we expect.

The randomization model is not about marketing, and it's not chosen because it's awesome—it's chosen because it's necessary. One of our other customers wrote up a pretty solid explanation of why it's necessary here. I hope you find it enlightening.

Zorka wrote:

So, I'd like to chime in here because a lot of what people are complaining about seems off base and unjustified to me. And nit-picky.

So you think this Feiya is ok as is and you would be fine with this fgure?

@danielc At least your eyes Feiya's eyes and mouth are in the correct place. Mine has that bad flesh melt and a joker smile and derp eyes.

I received my brick today. Everything is perfect. I didn't get a Freiya so no issues there. Super happy to get Nazenha since I have a PFS character who looks really similar to her and has the same hyberboreal robe.

Had a great conversation on this issue (Feiya, specifically) with our folks at WizKids today at Origins. It was a casual conversation (our formal meeting is on Friday), but I am enthused by their response and hope to report something positive shortly.

The randomization model is not about marketing, and it's not chosen because it's awesome—it's chosen because it's necessary. One of our other customers wrote up a pretty solid explanation of why it's necessary here. I hope you find it enlightening.

Many thanks for your quick response Vic.

Not arguing, just saying...Whilst you say "it's necessary", I believe there is nothing prohibiting you to offer a complete set of any given line of figures, except for the cost to the customer.

E.g. I paid AUS$20/booster for S&S figs x 12 = AUS$240, I did not get all the figs. that I wanted, conversely, I would have paid $350 or more to guarantee the complete set.

I understand the costs may be prohibitive to some, however, I for one would be willing to pay a little more per fig if they are the ones I wanted.

I accept that employing both sale models does slightly increase the cost of boosters/bricks and cases per unit, however, it need not necessarily be that way! IMO the majority or "all" of that cost could and should, be transferred to the individual buying the single figures or complete set.

I am fairly certain that those with some spare cash would accept the extra cost for the choice. This then comes back to how many smalls/commons and "unwanted" figures are manufactured and the cost disbursement between the packs and the individual figs. However, all manufacturers need to get their production levels & pricing models right, including those products which are unwanted and therefore sit on shelves.
I am sure you have done your marketing research as to what is more cost effective and acceptable to most, but the idea of randomly purchasing booster packs is not my personal preference.

The main issue, I believe, is that many of those posting here are frustrated that it seems that there is "No Way" to guarantee that you have all the figures, from a given set, that one desires.
Even buying a case, does not guarantee this!
If there were a pricing model, that absolutely guaranteed "at least" one of each figure or "only one" of each figure, I am sure many would make that purchase, whatever the price may be. {eg. myself}(Whilst understanding that all extra costs should be the burden of that choice, which should in no way impact on the cost of the boosters/bricks and cases for others.)

I will continue to be an avid supporter of your literature, I just wish both sale models for figures could be employed to facilitate customer choice.

Wishing you all the best! :)

AJAG, you already have that option, ordering the singles rather than the case.

AJAG, you already have that option, ordering the singles rather than the case.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking too. I share AJAG's desire for completeness, willingness to pay more and aversion to a surplus of commons, but it seems that our needs are catered for.

I can't really see what additional "pricing model" is needed. If you're prepared to pay extra, you can guarantee exactly the breakdown you need.