Did you even understand my concern? Either my english skills suck or you don't have any clue about the necromancer or a standard evil clerics abilities. At least in my book Ezra will easily fail such a will save.
I think I make him a real dread wraith. So they have to deal with him on equal terms. And if Hey really plan to use a wraith army (Or even a squad) Ezra must be dealt with because he is the true master. he created the other spawns. so te players must always be careful.
Yes I understood your concern, and yes I am fully understand what a necromancer and evil cleric can do. I've played undead before. I know how much it can suck to be controlled and essentially not play your character anymore. I'd rather be dominated. If Ezra would easily fail her save with a +8, then your necromancer must have a stupid high Charisma. The cleric I could see, but not the necromancer. It's 10+1/2 class level+CHA. On average we're talking Will DC 16. Even then he can only control them for a few minutes each time X/day and maybe the three regular wraiths.
I wouldn't use a real dread wraith as that's a CR 13. That's way too high for these guys. They'd get slaughtered quite quickly.
If you want, custom make an item for all of the wraiths that'll give them a +4 resistance bonus against being turned, commanded, or channeled against. That'll help somewhat. There's a cloak for 11,000 gold, but I don't know if you want to make the undead that rich. Maybe a rod for Ezra to counteract the commanding should they be successful.
Way to high? Like the other CR13 Encounters in this adventure? Ezra isn´t meant to be combated til the end of the AP. Then they will be level 9.
I play only with official Paizo Rules (nearly no 3PP stuf and surely no 3.5 stuff). I let the matter fall. I will make him just a dread wraith as I mentioned before. I think it is a bad designing idea in the adventure to include a spawn undead with villains (sorry Gary). Yeah Ezra is cool - but in the wrong players hands this could become a dessaster. And as a sidenote: The duration of the command undead feat is permanent. And a decent necromancer has some charisma (in this case he has 16). If you took ability focus (highly recommended if you use your command feat often) you have in level 6 easily a DC 18.
And if he resists... then just use command undead once again. You have enough uses. I think the creators should have put in some line like: you can target a specific undead only once per day with this feat (like some hexes or other special abilities). If he fails his roll fine.
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Way to high? Like the other CR13 Encounters in this adventure? Ezra isn´t meant to be combated til the end of the AP. Then they will be level 9.
That may be, but at least the other encounters aren't incorporeal. Unless everyone's got a ghost touch weapon they'll have a 50/50 miss chance each time they hit, and will have to deal with 1d8 CON damage each time it touches them. Half if they manage to make their Fort. The necromancer likely won't, and he won't have all that much either. Considering when the fight is, I honestly hope it's just them. If it's with everyone else, it'll be a TPK.
As for how it's written, no one ever really takes an AP as is. Everyone always tweaks it to better suit their players. If the good guys know that fire will work on the PCs, they're not going to use their frost weapons. That's just basic strategy.
Again wrong. Read up incorperal. The Alchemical golem alone could kill theoretically the wraith. My players eat them for breakfast. Be assured. They play long enough and know what
they do. And they are six players + minions (+cohorts at Level 7).
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I did read up incorporeal. I'll post it here.
It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
Regardless, you know your players better than anyone else so if your changes won't TPK them, go for it.
There is no 50/50 miss chance anymore. If you hit it with magic weapon half damage. no need for a ghost touch weapon.
On topic. Today my players gave the Lilliend and her consorts a lection. The Lilliend had to flee also the 3 surviving fey elves. The players clearly outmatch most encounters. I think I will have to adjust more. I already gave the Lilliend haste instead of the cure serious wounds spell.They (players) werent even all present today.
At the moment the summoner with the eidolon destroys nearly every encounter. I hate this eidolon. :-)
They inserted the eyes into the statue in the fane and will soon starting the ritual. The necromancer has thanks to some scrolls (gift of Thorn) 3 bloody skeleton minions. Hard times fort the first adventurer group next session.
Has anyone given Ezra Thrice Damned Class Levels?
I have a very specialized necromancer in my group and I think if he presses hard enough he will easily controll Ezra (and through him ANY SPAWN). I hope my players don´t run amok and just sacrifice everything they can spare to the wraiths and create a wraith army.
If Ezra is even controlled by the pc then they could do so possibly with no repercussions.
Ezra is an intelligent undead, he gets a save throw to break control every day.
With a +8 Will, that's a good chance, even against a character with CHA 20 and bonuses from feats. Even if your character gets CHA 28 and make the Save DC up to 35, and bestow curse Ezra to reduce the Save or whatever, that means Ezra can get free on a 20. With 222 days of praying, and rolling each day, that's like a 0,001% chance to finish the ritual with him controlled (0.95^222). And once he get free, every spawn created by him gets free too. I'm quite sure an army of wraith getting free in the middle of your lair is exactly what the PC are hoping for :)
Also, just to point out: they don't need Ezra at all to get a undead spawning minion. Any of Ezra's wraith will suffice, and unless you give each of them class levels, you don't change anything at all. They can kill Ezra and Command any regular wraith, which is enough to start a spawning dynamo.
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If Ezra is a real dread wraith (and the PCs know about this through high enough Knowledge Religion rolls) I suppose they don´t want to piss her off (until she decides herself its time to cease cooperation).
But otherwise your statement it´s true.
So far the encounter with Ezra went really well - I approached the Antipaladin Skeleton Champion (Thorn didn´t raise him - he animated him) alone. I made her female - because I found it more interesting, Ezra sounds female in my opinion and lastly because my players are more hesitant to attack woman (even in undead form) than males!
Momentary they see her as a ally - a potentially dangerous ally. They don´t dare to attack / control her. Because she could break free and then their chain of command would be broken. But the think about making a deal with her to make some wraiths for the Knot. One player already anticipates a betrayal of Ezra so he is the against that. We will see how long the others will uphold his words.
Another question: Is Ezra and the other wraiths bound to the Horn or can they leave it?
Ah and here is the Art I used for her. Did really leave an impression!
http://www10.pic-upload.de/20.10.12/l5my9e9l2ed.jpg
Good understanding of your players' psychology there, making Ezra female so they don't attack here. I think it's really a good move.
About the wraith being bound... whatever works better for your campaign I guess :). Do you want them to control wraiths out there? If so, let her and/or her minions to leave. If you don't, being bound to the Horn is a damn good "damage control" mechanism.
The picture is awesome.
I have a question about the evil organization rules, because all five of my players are eye-balling Leadership for their 7th level feat.
Do you still get the same number of followers, or do the organization rules ignore how many followers you have in favor of the ability scores?
If multiple people take Leadership, and start a single organization, how do you calculate the number of followers? Is it done separately for each character, and then added together? Assuming, of course, that they still get the normal number of followers.
And would items like a headband of charisma apply to the initial starting points you have for your organization, or would you use only the base scores?
I don't know about all of the rules, but Gary said that if two people take Leadership, then you get one cohort between the two of them, and it levels up so that they're on par with the PCs instead of -2.
Yeah, I saw that part of it. Its the followers part that confuses me. It's likely that my players will be hitting 7th by the end of the next session this Friday, so I really would like clarification on this before then. Although, now that I think about it, the headband part doesn't really matter if all five take Leadership at the same time...they'll have exactly enough points to max out all six abilities at +4 without the addition of any headbands. (They're all really pretty) But it'd still be nice to know, especially if they don't all take it at once.
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You've got it posted twice here.
The other option is that you once again have two players merge their Leadership together, and between the two of them you have the standard followers, and the other feat gets you contacts that the PCs can call in every now and again. This was also brought up. I'm not sure where exactly got the idea, but I'll be using the Super Genius Games version for contacts part.
Any word on my question yet?
Also, what happens if someone takes Leadership later on, but wants to go in on the same existing organization of other player(s)? Do they get to allocate their points? Or are the points from them ignored because the organization is already started when they join in?
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Malignant Mind,
Sorry. I meant to answer your question and it slipped my mind.
With the suggest changes to the leadership feat, you ignore the exact number of followers you have in exchange for a pool of minions whose capabilities are represented by the ability scores. The exact number of minions is not important (though we do give you a system for estimating that number just in case) -- instead, the system tries to answer the question "What can my minions do for me?"
Everyone who buys into being a leader of minions gets to add to the initial points via their charisma score.
When I run "Way of the Wicked" I intend to give everyone the leadership feat for free, letting them all contribute to the organization and instead of assigning all six of my PCs a cohort, just have one very cool cohort who is almost like a 7th PC.
Right now, I'm betting on it being daemonically awakened Grumblejack. But that could change...
Anything that permanently affects your charisma should affect your starting score. Personally, I wouldn't have it affect scores later. Instead, I would play everything as good for a given organization ability score or bad. If a magic item can help your minions be more effective at espionage for example, then adjust the relevant score only if the minions are allowed to use it.
Anyways, hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Check out our kickstarter! Creature Cards
Malignant Mind,
Sorry. I meant to answer your question and it slipped my mind.
With the suggest changes to the leadership feat, you ignore the exact number of followers you have in exchange for a pool of minions whose capabilities are represented by the ability scores. The exact number of minions is not important (though we do give you a system for estimating that number just in case) -- instead, the system tries to answer the question "What can my minions do for me?"
Everyone who buys into being a leader of minions gets to add to the initial points via their charisma score.
When I run "Way of the Wicked" I intend to give everyone the leadership feat for free, letting them all contribute to the organization and instead of assigning all six of my PCs a cohort, just have one very cool cohort who is almost like a 7th PC.
** spoiler omitted **
Anything that permanently affects your charisma should affect your starting score. Personally, I wouldn't have it affect scores later. Instead, I would play everything as good for a given organization ability score or bad. If a magic item can help your minions be more effective at espionage for example, then adjust the relevant score only if the minions are allowed to use it.
Anyways, hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Check out our kickstarter! Creature Cards
That helps tons. Thanks. :)
I think I'll give them Leadership for free as well. I'm not sure if they'll make it through book 2 without the backing of their own organization, and while they might be eyeballing the feat, taking it slows down most of their proposed builds. (Plus, we permanently lost one player from our group, and one is only occasionally able to make it... it's pretty much a three man group running this).
I'm especially worried about what I've taken to calling "The Five Days of Hell" at the end of the book, where everything wants to ruin the PCs day. They're resourceful enough, they should make it, but it'll be rough. The Antipaladin has already died once, at the end of book 1 against the paladin. Thorn was kind enough to bring her back this time though.
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You would amazed at just how much power it gives you. You literally have the very ability to banish, control, destroy, dismiss, recall, summon, etc without so much as them using their SR or a save to protect themselves against you or anyone else that happens to know it as well. Think of it as a supernatural version of Dominate Monster, at will, with no save.
I've personally been referenced to "Slayer's Guide to Demons" for more info on it.
Yet another question haha
One of my pc´s will take leadership next level and he will run an evil organisation.
If he uses his cohort to aid his organisation - does the cohort only aid in actions? Or does he get to add his CHA Bonus for "Actions per week"?
(Just as if a council is formed).
In the last chapter about the organisation, Gary tells that a full stocked Boggard tribe (with 32 members) van provide 4 actions a week. Have I missed something? I find nowhere else an size requirement for actions.
How many members does an evil organisation have? Does it depend it on the Survivability?
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Patrick,
Only PCs add their CHA bonus to organizations. Cohorts can aid individual actions.
The Boggards are a special bonus for gaining the aid of a powerful and useful ally (while your are based in the Horn). They are not meant to represent typical minions. Of course you lose this bonus once they betray you.
The size of your organization is an abstract thing and varies per level. The organization system is only concerned with "what can my evil organization do for me?" not drilling down into specifics. This helps keep the organization system very simple.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Check out our kickstarter! Creature Cards
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Thank you Gary. My players always want to know specifics. I hate it when I must make something up on the fly. A organisation size would have been nice.
In the case of the boggards: That means you gain one boggard action per week per 8 individuals in the tribe? All without taking Leadership?
While preparing the next session (put all members of Hallacks crew on 1 page and "optimized" them a bit) I came to the conclussion you did not give all of them their favored class bonus! Either hitpoints nor skillpoints. So I gave them all their favored class bonus (only exception I found was Bianca DeVallya - she had the bonus hp from favored class).
Because Hallack and Yorgun make a fighting team I took them a teamwork feat (Outflank, +4 attack when flanking and a aoo when some ot these two crits).
Yorguns and James O´Tooles´ attack bonus is wrong!
Yorgun should have
Base +5
Str +4
Weapon +1
Focus +1
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Total +11
Since you gave us his damage while power attacking and he is using a large weapon you forgot to subtract either power attack (-2) OR the malus for wielding a large weapon (-2). So his total attack bonus is +7 not +9 as listed.
O´Tooles´ attack bonus under Flurry is wrong too. If I am right it should be +11/+11/+6 (not +13/+13/+8).
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Last session my group of villains wiped out Hallacks crew. It was a rather pityful fight. Forewarned by Zadira they concentrated a lot of their forces in the boggard caves (Hextor and Vextor, a bloody minotaur skeleton, two bloody ogre skeletons, the summoner called his eidolon and 3 infernal hyaena shortly before Hallacks crew arrived). The combat lasted two rounds. The pc´s didn´t even have to intervene. They don´t killed them - they stabilized them an throw them into the cells.
The summoner now wants Tiadora (he called her with the clay seal) to write some contracts if the "young unexperienced heroes" want maybe to sign a hellish contract. He read about pacts with hell in Lords of the damned. Their lives against servitude until the ritual is over.
Do you think someone of them would give in? The female cleric under no circumstances. I could see Hallack sign if they promise to let Bianca free and do her no harm. About the others... I am unclear. I think their Horn is already well protected (and they haven´t even repaired the golem or called the hell hounds and the nightmare so far). So I don´t want to have even more guards around for them. On the other side I want to play my NPC as real as possible and have good ideas of the pc´s work!
Whom would you expect to give in?
(maybe the moon dogs rescue some - depends on how much time they spend)
Oh while talking about the moondogs. I just recognized they got Shades 1/day. A fricking 9th level spell. What would be a good use for this? If I use it to call a elder elemental with both the Horn will be shacken!
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While preparing the next session (put all members of Hallacks crew on 1 page and "optimized" them a bit) I came to the conclussion you did not give all of them their favored class bonus! Either hitpoints nor skillpoints. So I gave them all their favored class bonus (only exception I found was Bianca DeVallya - she had the bonus hp from favored class).
Because Hallack and Yorgun make a fighting team I took them a teamwork feat (Outflank, +4 attack when flanking and a aoo when some ot these two crits).
Yorguns and James O´Tooles´ attack bonus is wrong!
Yorgun should have +11Since you gave us his damage while power attacking and he is using a large weapon you forgot to subtract either power attack (-2) OR the malus for wielding a large weapon (-2). So his total attack bonus is +7 not +9 as listed.
O´Tooles´ attack bonus under Flurry is wrong too. If I am right it should be +11/+11/+6 (not +13/+13/+8).
I went over them, and some things are off, but others are right. This is all that I found.
- Hallack Amon; +6 hp
- James O'Toole; cloak of resistance +1, flurry of blows is -2 attack each (+11/+11/+6)
- Yorgun the Smith; +3 hp, +7 attack and is actually a CR 6
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I think I'm going to replace the boggards with goblins. Some sort of advanced gremlinesque goblin with an abyssal template - but quite likely simply by reading goblin wherever it says boggard in the text.
I love paizo's take on goblins, my party loves those little buggers even more. I'm sure they'll treat the goblins like a child would handle a cute little puppy. So many cute little minions! And they're so delicously evil!
Maybe they'll even be blue...I could use smurfs as minis...hmm...
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I love paizo's take on goblins, my party loves those little buggers even more. I'm sure they'll treat the goblins like a child would handle a cute little puppy. So many cute little minions! And they're so delicously evil!
Maybe they'll even be blue...I could use smurfs as minis...hmm...
That is... disturbing... and what is worse is one of my PCs is a witch named Gargamel with a cat familiar named Azreal... adding smurfs would be... interesting... especially as he plans to take 'Cook People' as a Hex at lvl 10...
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Hmmm, why not use redcaps? I always thought of those as smurfs gone (very) bad. Maybe the stuff they slaughter in the caves has white blood so they dye their caps in white blood?
Or maybe both : goblins and redcaps-nay-whitecaps - and then there's a turf war for the PC's to intervene or capitalize on. The only reason the goblins survive for that long against the 'caps is because they are miserably mutated i.e. have boggard stats...
okay I have to stop myself here - I'll just have to wait and see how this turns out on sunday.
I think I'm going to replace the boggards with goblins. Some sort of advanced gremlinesque goblin with an abyssal template - but quite likely simply by reading goblin wherever it says boggard in the text.
I love paizo's take on goblins, my party loves those little buggers even more. I'm sure they'll treat the goblins like a child would handle a cute little puppy. So many cute little minions! And they're so delicously evil!
Maybe they'll even be blue...I could use smurfs as minis...hmm...
I actually like this idea. It would work well for my group. We all love the Pathfinder goblins. I think it's pretty likely they'd just slaughter the boggards, but they would probably want to keep goblins around. Need to bump up the standard goblins though, to keep the overall balance the same.
A question on the moon dogs: Why can't they plane shift escape while in the horn? For example summoning still works. Where is the difference? I know it is a teleportation spell but it should be working within the horn. Does this mean banishment also dont work?
Also: What to do woth their 9th level spell shades? Some nasty use suggestions would be apprecitated.
A question on the moon dogs: Why can't they plane shift escape while in the horn? For example summoning still works. Where is the difference? I know it is a teleportation spell but it should be working within the horn. Does this mean banishment also dont work?
Also: What to do woth their 9th level spell shades? Some nasty use suggestions would be apprecitated.
Greater Planar Binding...18 HD LG outsider? I'm pretty sure it would agree to help. Granted, that's just mean to the players.
Another question about the Organization Rules. When you first get to build your organization, you get to spent your Cha-Modifier worth in points to the abilitie scores of the organisation. And later each level you can spent another point.
If you took Leadership at level 7... can you spent 7 points for the 7 levels? Or do you just get points after level 7?
AND: What happens if Hextor and Vextor get banished? Do the reform after 1 month? Or must they be summoned again?
Gary! Idea/question!
This might be crazy...but...with the release of the Mythic Adventures playtest... Would it be too much to give the players Mythic abilities?
Thoughts O Wise and Powerful Gary?
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I read the playtest and wasn't too keen on the idea of what's going on there. Although, I will admit it'd make my wizard player extremely happy to be able to play an archmage again.
I think it'd be a lot of work to revise the game, but if you're fine with figuring out the rules for it, and doing all the work I don't see any real issue.
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Quick question on the fates of your daemonic allies:
Quick question on the fates of your daemonic allies:
** spoiler omitted **
So, my group took a rather hands on approach to that first group of adventurers...
Has anyone fleshed out Baron Vandermir's ball? Sounds like a good opportunity for role playing if done well.
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Has anyone fleshed out Baron Vandermir's ball?
on creating a grand feast, you could have a look at council of thieves book 2; the Cornucopia may be a bit much, but 'too much' may be an easier starting point than 'too little'.
question for you folks:
I copied the Evil Organisation rules into a pdf for my players. They love it, except there's only one high-charisma character, so only one character who has a viable shot at leadership.
One of the other players came up with a great idea of creating departments within the organisation : every character commands missions that are tailored to their highest ability score. The strong orc will handle any ruthless quests, the cleric will handle espionage, the rogue will handle secrecy, the alchemist drug dealer runs the connections department, and the high-CHA sorcerer will control any left over departments and have final say in case of a tie. (I'm a big fan of letting them create and then sort out their own problems)
However, in fairness to the sorcerer, who will be taking the RAW Leadership feat, I intend to ask all those who want to lead the organisation to invest in a similar feat. This should change the situation from 'problem' to 'flavor'.
Each character will attract creatures / NPC's that have similar strengths as the character himself, who want to learn from the master. This way, a cleric attracts disciples and kobold shamans, a fighter gets a pet ogre, and all roles are neatly separated. Yet, as far as I know, no suitable feats exist. So, I made up 6 feats to represent the 6 abilities. All feats have the same mechanics as Leadership, except the key ability is changed from CHA to one of the others.
character ability => made up feat
STR => Bully
DEX => Master Thief
CON => Drill Instructor (a shame Talingarde hasn't invented gyms yet)
INT => Professor / Teacher
WIS => Disciples (a Messiah feat might be pushing it a bit)
CHA => Leadership (RAW)
Do you see obvious flaws / balance issues to this? any suggestions for better feat names would be most welcome :) Or if someone knows a 3rd party who has Leadership-but-not-by-CHA already covered, I'd love to know.
Evil from Alderac Entertainment has the Tyrant feat, which is a variation of Leadership that uses STR or CHA.
Has anyone fleshed out Baron Vandermir's ball?on creating a grand feast, you could have a look at council of thieves book 2; the Cornucopia may be a bit much, but 'too much' may be an easier starting point than 'too little'.
question for you folks:
I copied the Evil Organisation rules into a pdf for my players. They love it, except there's only one high-charisma character, so only one character who has a viable shot at leadership.One of the other players came up with a great idea of creating departments within the organisation : every character commands missions that are tailored to their highest ability score. The strong orc will handle any ruthless quests, the cleric will handle espionage, the rogue will handle secrecy, the alchemist drug dealer runs the connections department, and the high-CHA sorcerer will control any left over departments and have final say in case of a tie. (I'm a big fan of letting them create and then sort out their own problems)
However, in fairness to the sorcerer, who will be taking the RAW Leadership feat, I intend to ask all those who want to lead the organisation to invest in a similar feat. This should change the situation from 'problem' to 'flavor'.
Each character will attract creatures / NPC's that have similar strengths as the character himself, who want to learn from the master. This way, a cleric attracts disciples and kobold shamans, a fighter gets a pet ogre, and all roles are neatly separated. Yet, as far as I know, no suitable feats exist. So, I made up 6 feats to represent the 6 abilities. All feats have the same mechanics as Leadership, except the key ability is changed from CHA to one of the others.
character ability => made up feat
STR => Bully
DEX => Master Thief
CON => Drill Instructor (a shame Talingarde hasn't invented gyms yet)
INT => Professor / Teacher
WIS => Disciples (a Messiah feat might be pushing it a bit)
CHA => Leadership (RAW)Do you see obvious flaws / balance issues to this? any suggestions for better feat...
I don't see any problems with it. I'd make sure to limit people to one Leadership feat. A strength based character taking a strength based Leadership is going to be just as well off as a charisma based character taking the normal Leadership. There's not really any ways to break it for a specific ability score.
I like the names, but I think the Int based feat should be called Mastermind. It fits. Especially for an evil campaign :P| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sheesh! I missed a bunch of questions here.
Patrick,
You can't teleport into or out of the Horn (except via the gate). Summoning is a big exception because honestly otherwise it completely nerfs summoners and wizards. If you're cool with nerfing them, feel free to implement the ban more generally. If you want an ingame reason why summoning works -- the wizards among the Brother who designed the protection may been been summoners and made this loophole so as not limit their own power.
Regarding the organization rules -- no, you only get one point for every level you actually have the organization in existence -- i.e. levels after seven.
Hex and Vex reform after a month as long as the Horn stands. Personally, I see their fate and the fate of the Horn as being intertwined. However, if your PCs have really fallen in love with these big cuddly monstrosities, I'd let them accompany them on their adventures.
Revenantdog,
Much of what I say above to Patrick applies to your question. Hex and Vex's fate is not discussed because it depends heavily on what the PCs do. If the PCs betray Vetra-Kali, it seems unlikely to me that Hex and Vex will voluntarily serve them.
They were summoned to the Horn, so that is where they are tasked to stay. But, if the PCs have their true names, work out a deal with V-K and have become enamored with the daemons -- I say let them become minions.
Just a word of warning, if you let the PCs keep every stray monster they meet as pets, your going to need to buff up most of the later encounters.
Anyways, that's all for now.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
So...in the event of a TPK, how would you suggest proceeding?
I only ask because my players are having a bit of a rough time.
If the players die during this book and fail to retrieve the Tears, would you suggest going to the next book with new recruits? And if so, how would that influence future books?
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So...in the event of a TPK, how would you suggest proceeding?
I only ask because my players are having a bit of a rough time.
** spoiler omitted **
Well, if your players are having a really rough time, there were a few suggestions on how to beef things up:
1) Thorn raises them as undead and they gain templates (skeleton lord, zombie lord).
2) Recruit minions. In Book 2 the party's supposed to be gathering more evil people to join their band. Maybe there's a few in town who've been humming and hahing about joining, and at the last minute decide they're willing to be part of the 9th Knot. However, they're no longer minions, they're part of the official team.
3) There was a cave-in during some point of the Horn, and a minor earthquake reveals yet another cultist (or two or three) that's currently in statue form. The party's able to find more stone to flesh potion, or maybe someone has the spell, and that person(s) becomes a PC.
4) Grumblejack becomes a PC.
5) Tiadora stops a carriage full of potential prisoner PCs, as per Thorn's orders, on their way to town. These are the new PCs. They are to gather at the Horn immediately. Otherwise, they can continue on their merry way to jail.
6) Make up a band of evil adventurers who seek to make the Horn their own because they believe it will give them insane power-ups. Anyone left alive joins up with the PCs.
7) A bugbear or half-bugbear, offspring of Fire-Axe comes to the horn to join the PCs to make sure that his father's victory is assured.
8) The good Baron Vandermir has his favor called in by the PCs, and he sends them a few of his personal guard.
9) A couple of the boggards who have been sitting on the fence have decided to join the PCs in their quest.
10) Because of the Horn slowly activating, one or two of the mudmen become sentient, and just so happen to of PC worth.
11) One of the PCs die, but his soul goes into the alchemical golem, making it a lifespark construct version.
12) Hunters of Men -- A druid, ranger, or other wilderness-born villain long in hiding in the mountains comes down to take advantage of the carnage. Instead of easy loot and provisions, what this character finds instead is a new purpose.
13) Sacrifice -- A hellhound merges with a PC, making it a were-hell hound lycanthrope.
And there's what I was thinking of doing:
Power Boost -- There's enough stagnant water in the fountain that Grumblejack is supposed to drink out of, for the PCs. This gives them a +1 CR template of their choice (advanced, cunning creature, half-vampire, part of half-fiend, etc).
Well, if your players are having a really rough time, there were a few suggestions on how to beef things up:
*IDEAS*
We realized it was trying to add the Mythic rules to the AP that screwed things. So we all agreed to hit the undo button on that and pretend mythic never happened. At least that stuff is easy enough to remove from a character since most of the things you get are entirely separate from your class.
In other news, our kitsune rogue died in the fight against Harkon (but the remaining characters dealt with him). The player decided to come back as a... Well... He's Grumblejacks child. Half-ogre with the young template....fighter. He's a hyperactive ball of metal that is too strong for his own good. It's both terrifying and amusing.
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Well, if your players are having a really rough time, there were a few suggestions on how to beef things up:
*IDEAS*We realized it was trying to add the Mythic rules to the AP that screwed things. So we all agreed to hit the undo button on that and pretend mythic never happened. At least that stuff is easy enough to remove from a character since most of the things you get are entirely separate from your class.
In other news, our kitsune rogue died in the fight against Harkon (but the remaining characters dealt with him). The player decided to come back as a... Well... He's Grumblejacks child. Half-ogre with the young template....fighter. He's a hyperactive ball of metal that is too strong for his own good. It's both terrifying and amusing.
Ah, yeah that'd do it. My players asked if we were going to be implementing those rules, and I gave them a sound "no". Not going to happen. They're more than pleased with that decision. None of us like those rules.
A young half-ogre? So a small sized PC? Because half-ogre is a medium race.
Well, if your players are having a really rough time, there were a few suggestions on how to beef things up:
*IDEAS*We realized it was trying to add the Mythic rules to the AP that screwed things. So we all agreed to hit the undo button on that and pretend mythic never happened. At least that stuff is easy enough to remove from a character since most of the things you get are entirely separate from your class.
In other news, our kitsune rogue died in the fight against Harkon (but the remaining characters dealt with him). The player decided to come back as a... Well... He's Grumblejacks child. Half-ogre with the young template....fighter. He's a hyperactive ball of metal that is too strong for his own good. It's both terrifying and amusing.
Ah, yeah that'd do it. My players asked if we were going to be implementing those rules, and I gave them a sound "no". Not going to happen. They're more than pleased with that decision. None of us like those rules.
A young half-ogre? So a small sized PC? Because half-ogre is a medium race.
Yeah. After seeing the rules in play, we realized they need a massive overhaul, and really don't work in a game not designed to use them.
Yeah, he's small, but still packs a 22 strength. The walls of the horn are going to be covered in crayon. And he wants to build a treehouse in the hangman tree. I don't think that'll happen. But its still amusing.