Could use some ideas and thoughts from fellow GMs who have run this book. My situation is thus:
The go-to solution is simply to have the Baron find a descendant for the ritual, but the group likes to RP and I'd like to build a little something here for them (just an hour, tops). Anyone else experience this? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
So, another question... I come from the school of thought that dragons should be truly terrifying encounters not only due to the creatures' raw power but also their intelligence and spellcasting abilities. So, for those who have run this, I was wondering what you think of Argossarian as written and whether you would make (or did make) any tweaks or adjustments to him. For context, my players have the following PCs:
Dr. Sereves = Human Scarred Witch Doctor (basically a disease and debuff oriented build)
Bramble = Changeling Dreamweaver Witch
Lord Rissis = Human Rogue (Rumormonger) / Assassin
In addition, assuming no deaths in the interim, they will have:
Grumblejack
Vovanyr Cathu = Cohort matched to APL; Blood God Disciple Summoner with a melee-mount eidolon
Ezra Thrice-Damned (for whatever he can be trusted to help with)
Hexor and Vexor (found the control amulets)
Alchemical Golem (or so I assume, as they've found the schematics and have the skills to automatically succeed on all rolls to rebuild it)
the cleric's undead horde, which is constantly growing
So, while the party itself is weak when it comes to damage-dealing capability, they should have amassed quite a few minions at this point that should be able to help.
I was thinking of Mage Armor and Shield to get Argossarian's AC way up (34), but that might make him entirely impossible to hit (terrifying to be sure, but maybe "unfair" and unfun). I was also thinking of Touch of Idiocy to really hurt the party where it counts (their spell casting abilities). I was also deliberating on Invisibility for a terrifying first strike, but that would remove the opportunity to really build up some tension (and a chance for the party to buff for a fighting chance). Also debating whether to make the feat selection unique. Hover seems unnecessary to me with a sufficient fly check, and a +1 to bite seems superfluous in this context. Yet, all of that said, I don't want to kill the PCs... just scare the carp out of them.
Anyway, thoughts and war stories appreciated.
Could use some ideas and thoughts from fellow GMs who have run this book. My situation is thus:
** spoiler omitted **Thanks!
Well, no one would be proud to be a descendant of "the sons". One could imagine that the baron is unsure if he/she really is a descendant. so you have to organise a time where they interrogate the poor mitran cleric who tried to atone his parents deeds. or he could be a local wealthy merchantman.
Otherwise it could be during the Baron's ball (this event is then moved before the ritual) where they discuss with various people.
Major, that's a good suggestion. May also prompt the party to invest some of the 45k they found into the torture chamber. Thanks. I just need to come up with a backstory on a couple of npcs.
|
Well Book 2 is complete.
The PCs managed to beat off the third attack of Day 221, the celestial & giant eagles.
They ate giant eagle wings afterwards... and the PCs were seriously considering skinning the celestial to make 'angelskin' armor...
The tough fight of the evening was the Brothers of Ballentyne. I tweaked the Brothers to have near equal wealth and adjusted the feat selection.
Erik got a fair bit of adjustment since the write up was 'school of boom', so empowered and intensify spells were added and he became an evoker/admixture specialist. With a rod of lesser quicken he could drop a fireball and something else easily each round.
Lvl 5 spells were: 2x empowered intensified fireball (13d6+6), 2x teleport
Gave him the trait that lowered metamagic on fireball by 1.
In addition to tweaking up the NPCs, since my group consists of 6 players I added a 5th Brother, Edward Marlowe a level 10 alchemist.
The NPCs used airwalk & fly to get upto the sanctum, they failed to dispel the barrier, so they went thru, healed up and then buffed with the last minute buffs and entered.
The PCs were surprised, but I had the NPCs 'waste' their surprise actions by monologuing instead. Which wasn't a bad thing since they were devestating. Hide Undead prevented the Necro's pets from attacking.
And the PCs were spread out. With the NPCs still under Air Walk/Fly they ignored the rough terrain that would have forced them to slow down. It also allowed them to charge over the difficult terrain or at the few PCs who decided to pop up on top of the walls.
The PCs had some bad saves and 3 of them were 'killed', as was Grumblejack. A 4th PC was knocked down to 0hp. However, the PCs were smart... they had a back up plan.
When things went to hell, they used invisibility on the last sacrifice (Sir Valin) and one of the cohorts used disguise self to appear as him. Sir Valin ran out of the hiding spot asking to be saved and that the villains needed to sacrifice him to succeed. Bluff succeeded over Sense Motive, and with Brother Donnagin down the Brothers decided that they had done what they came for and teleport out (which was the 2nd use of Erik's teleport).
The PCs rolled on the casualty chart to see if their injuries actually killed them or not. Only the monk came out with a injury to his arm causing him a -1 str penalty.
A wounded party completed the ritual. Vetra-Kali showed up. Asked for his eyes... and one of the PCs just handed one over... with no conditions... :)
The last two got handed over in exchange for the PCs lives being spared and the Tears.
Vetra-Kali then shooed them out of his Horn.
Not quite how I expected it to go down. But it was interesting!
Now I get to try and figure out what ramifications happen from all of this.
My thoughts are that the 'Brothers' are still an active force and that they will 'squeeze' all sorts of info from their prisoner.
The prisoner will probably go to Branderscar. The players have some time to figure out if they want to do a rescue or not.
I'm going to allow the PCs to retrain when the get to Ghastenhall for Book 3. Or do some quests if that is what they feel like.
And has they have now hit level 10... I'm probably going to be taking out the 'Villains are like Cockroaches' rule which lets them survive when killed unless they are specifically coup de graced.
I will say that the fight with the 'Brothers' was took a while, even though it was only about 3-4 rounds worth of combat. Lots of stuff happening, lots of things to control on the battlefield.
Overall my players still think Way of the Wicked is the best adventures they have ever played. Woot! Way to go Gary & Fire Mountain Games.
|
And has they have now hit level 10... I'm probably going to be taking out the 'Villains are like Cockroaches' rule which lets them survive when killed unless they are specifically coup de graced.
I'd love to see that rule. I've basically got the same idea for my villains. They can be beaten well past their Con, and can only actually die if they're coup de graced, or if 10 minutes go by without them healing.
|
|
@Kevin, I pull it up when I get home, but the short version is:
If villains would die to hp loss, they instead roll on an injury chart (libertated from Warhammer Chaos Warbands)
Assuming they have party members who survive and treat them, they roll percentiles.
01-50 they were just knocked unconcious all the way up to 98-99 being double rolls at +40 and 00 being yep, you are dead.
If they get hit with a death effect or coup de graced while down, then they are dead and have to be be raised as normal.
It has allowed me to not hold back any damage the 'good guys' do. Especially that when I tweak things the monsters are generally a lot tougher or better organized.
One thing I have found with most adventures that I've run, is that the PCs either get cocky or they have bad rolls or the monsters have really good rolls. And that leads to PCs dying. As I wanted the PCs for WotW to gel and get attached to them.
That has worked out pretty good so far, but since they are now level 10 and have summoned Vetra-Kali back, I think they have hit the point where they are now a recognized threat... so the kid gloves are off. I still need to sit down and discuss with my players what the implications are and if I give them some fixed number (ie twice Con in negatives) to replace it.
It's got no link with this particular scenario but as I was reading the bestiary I (page demons), I was thinking that somewhere in the AP I could add some demons upset that Asmodeus plans are going to well and perhaps try to kill the PCs.
Specially if a certain contract Devil warns them (as in next book) that some Demons are after them.
May be add a very short sidequest, just to let them understand that they are in the middle of a maelstrom between different gods.
I'll have to think about it.
And has they have now hit level 10... I'm probably going to be taking out the 'Villains are like Cockroaches' rule which lets them survive when killed unless they are specifically coup de graced.
That rule is called Raise Dead ;)
|
|
It's got no link with this particular scenario but as I was reading the bestiary I (page demons), I was thinking that somewhere in the AP I could add some demons upset that Asmodeus plans are going to well and perhaps try to kill the PCs.
Specially if a certain contract Devil warns them (as in next book) that some Demons are after them.
May be add a very short sidequest, just to let them understand that they are in the middle of a maelstrom between different gods.
I'll have to think about it.
That sounds great, and I know exactly who to have them deal with. In my game, it'd be Orcus as one's looking to become undead, and another is looking to control a lot of the undead. Orcus is the master of the unliving, and he's not going to take too kindly to that. Especially considering the group currently has an item that he'd probably like back.
Argossarian was one-shot in my campaign by the scimitar-wielding magus. It's one of the few combats I feel I did not improve enough. It's quite weak as printed in the adventure, so yes, you need to improve him quite a bit. Using fogs/mists as part of the battle is a good way to start.
@Kevin : Thanks for the feedback. 2 of my characters are undead. So... I'll have to think about it. Whether it could be by the end of book 2 or may be book 4. Book 3 is too much Angel orientated. Although during book 3 I could have a sort of avatar of Mitra warning them that the gloves are off if they don't stop. That will make them think and become a bit paranoid about everyone.
Except Devils. And be a good incentive for book 5 to happen when they have to slay "him".
Can you have someone riding the dragon and using Mounted Combat to deflect blows? Or a spellcaster riding the dragon and buffing both of them? Or even two riders?
Can you have someone riding the dragon and using Mounted Combat to deflect blows?
He's going to need a helluva ton of ranks in Ride for that
Dragons should be intelligent. They shouldn't rush into melee and get hacked to pieces. They should examine their enemies first, collect intel, and then use effective hit-and-run tactics, preferably against divided or confused enemies.
Doug M.
He did so in my game. He got jumped thanks to the Eye of Vetra Kali that gives them scry with true seeing inside the Horn, and a dimensional door and a fire-based crit with a scimitar blow+intensified empowered shocking grasp was his doom.
I'm going to give some thought to adding someone to the Dragon. By the time they get to that fight, they will be on target with the campaign's pace -- so, ninth level.
Some interesting suggestions; I appreciate it. The challenge I have is a physically weak party (caster heavy) but, as they are a bunch of casters, I could make one bad saving throw for the dragon and... poof... fight's over. On one hand, that's great and part of what makes the game awesome and unpredictable. On the other... a dragon should make you piss your pants in fear, not laughter (IMO). Having read enough stories about one-shots and one round fights with Argossarian, I'm trying to anticipate that balance. (They already felled Jurak before the treant was even able to take a single action.)
|
|
@Kevin : Thanks for the feedback. 2 of my characters are undead. So... I'll have to think about it. Whether it could be by the end of book 2 or may be book 4. Book 3 is too much Angel orientated. Although during book 3 I could have a sort of avatar of Mitra warning them that the gloves are off if they don't stop. That will make them think and become a bit paranoid about everyone.
Except Devils. And be a good incentive for book 5 to happen when they have to slay "him".
Demons love chaos, and if your players happen to survive until the end of Book 6, have the demons be upset that Asmodeus will be in charge, so have them choose "If I can't have it, neither can you" and send an Armaggedon Beast after them.
Demons love chaos, and if your players happen to survive until the end of Book 6, have the demons be upset that Asmodeus will be in charge, so have them choose "If I can't have it, neither can you" and send an Armaggedon Beast after them.@Kevin : Thanks for the feedback. 2 of my characters are undead. So... I'll have to think about it. Whether it could be by the end of book 2 or may be book 4. Book 3 is too much Angel orientated. Although during book 3 I could have a sort of avatar of Mitra warning them that the gloves are off if they don't stop. That will make them think and become a bit paranoid about everyone.
Except Devils. And be a good incentive for book 5 to happen when they have to slay "him".
Very weak for CR 25. A single Reverse Gravity and the game is over :/
Hmm. Updated October 9 (though not here on Paizo). I don't want to get ahead of myself, but that makes me a little hopeful that Gary is starting to push things out the door again. Throne of Night soon? *fingers crossed*
|
|
Hmm. Updated October 9 (though not here on Paizo). I don't want to get ahead of myself, but that makes me a little hopeful that Gary is starting to push things out the door again. Throne of Night soon? *fingers crossed*
I was wondering the same thing. Maybe editing them for the new people who purchased them for print.
Very weak for CR 25. A single Reverse Gravity and the game is over :/Hardly. Just because you used Reverse Gravity doesn't mean you go up into the stratosphere. Lots of breath weapons ever 1d3 rounds to take you down.
yep, I skip that part when I looked over it, only saw the melee stuff and no fly.
Demons love chaos, and if your players happen to survive until the end of Book 6, have the demons be upset that Asmodeus will be in charge, so have them choose "If I can't have it, neither can you" and send an Armaggedon Beast after them.@Kevin : Thanks for the feedback. 2 of my characters are undead. So... I'll have to think about it. Whether it could be by the end of book 2 or may be book 4. Book 3 is too much Angel orientated. Although during book 3 I could have a sort of avatar of Mitra warning them that the gloves are off if they don't stop. That will make them think and become a bit paranoid about everyone.
Except Devils. And be a good incentive for book 5 to happen when they have to slay "him".
Ooooh that's a good one. I'll have other fights with demons though... Oh I was thinking of a good thing somewhere in Vaelterna they find the dead body of a demon and an unopened letter from some major demon that the 9th is coming with an army. Of course being Lawful good they destroyed the demon as soon as he appeared (does outsider's body stay on material plane when they die btw?) and didn't bother to search him. How ironic....
|
|
Ooooh that's a good one. I'll have other fights with demons though... Oh I was thinking of a good thing somewhere in Vaelterna they find the dead body of a demon and an unopened letter from some major demon that the 9th is coming with an army. Of course being Lawful good they destroyed the demon as soon as he appeared (does outsider's body stay on material plane when they die btw?) and didn't bother to search him. How ironic....
Outsiders either die and stay dead, or they are banished for 100 years. All depends on how and who killed them. Certain clerics and paladins have learned how to actually slay evil outsiders.
It depends on how they arrived on the material plane. If they were summoned, they just disappear when killed. If they were called, it's more complicated but a corpse does remain.
|
|
The party has finally made it to the Horn.
Truthfully, I thought they were kidding, but since it'd been two weeks since we last played (Canadian Thanksgiving), they were incredibly blood thirsty, and slaughtered the two boggard sentries in less than a round. Then they decided to go and check the place out since they all had darkvision, and eventually came across the mud pit. The half red dragon loved it the most. She wanted to make that into her personal sauna.
The ninja, who could go incorporeal, found the secret vault and gathered up both the eye and the book for the ritual.
They came to the boggard huts, where Slays-Nine-Men and Hears-the-Father were waiting for them. The samsaran oracle of the dark tapestry realized she was resonating with the boggard oracle and they made conversation regarding worship, and what they wanted. It came down to it that if they wanted to stay, then they'd have to face off with their chieftan. The inquisitor, Grumblejack, and the anti-paladin all wanted in on the fight, and rolled randomly to see who'd go first. The anti-paladin "drew the long straw" and got to fight. It lasted two rounds as she managed to crit with two attacks.
With her now being their leader, the tribe sent runners to tell of the new chieftan, and paid tribute by giving her all of the former leader's stuff. They also took whatever was already in the other huts as well.
After asking about if anyone say Kael, it was mentioned that at some point, another outsider had come in with a couple of others, but when the boggard had gone to investigate, they found no one. This made the party suspicious, and they decided to look around the area that Kael vanished. It was then that the high elf inquisitor detected a secret door, and the set of stairs that led up.
The session ended with the party clasping their hands in glee as they witnessed the alchemical golem that they were allowed to fix and make their own.
Next session will likely involve Hexor, Vexor, and Ezra.
I think everyone knows by now that I'm running this campaign with templates. Instead of the CR +2 vampire template that the GM may give the players the option of taking, or even the half-fiend template, I let the group take two +1 templates instead. A couple of the players are now wanting to get away from the templates. They want the "missing" HD instead. They're still 6 HD, as per the adventure because of the side quests I've put in as per Book 1 (Ice Troll King, Frost Giants, etc). I'm not sure how else I can explain to them that they're not losing out on XP. I think I've got the message across for now, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Interesting Kevin.
For the stairs going all the way to the top.
My PCs didn't find it yet they explored all 3 levels and are in the process of exploring the caves. They passed by the stairs rolling 10 (for a net 26) but since the DC to find it is 30 there is no way they will find them unless they are being told where to look for. The caves are so huge it will take ages if they roll 20 everywhere.
I let the group take two +1 templates instead... I think I've got the message across for now, but I guess I'll have to wait and see.
LOL. This has been an ongoing struggle for you as I recall. Weren't they terrified about the prospect of having to fight their way through Balentyne, too? Too funny. You know, in the event you actually kill one of the PCs, they're going to take it as proof that they're weak and be pissed at you for it.
|
|
LOL. This has been an ongoing struggle for you as I recall. Weren't they terrified about the prospect of having to fight their way through Balentyne, too? Too funny. You know, in the event you actually kill one of the PCs, they're going to take it as proof that they're weak and be pissed at you for it.
Oh probably. And yes, they were terrified of going through all of the first book with so few HD, despite having two templates that essentially broke them. If they do manage to somehow die, they'll just say that it was because they were too low of HD because the templates got in the way.
No wonder .... lol.
I added the vampires template for only 3 feats, which is a small tax.
Nevertheless I don't like the way vampires are handled. Not enough weaknesses and I added a few. They have to drink blood more often than required by the book, when they reach 0hp they will transform into mist but STILL take damages. if they ever reach -cha hp they "die"... turn to dist.
Anyone here ever manage to get involved with anything regarding MinionQuest?
I think Gary had said at one point it was going to be released in a book 7 for Way of the wicked.. minionquests 1-3 and some other extra stuff...
but i think he's still 2-3 months behind on Throne of night.. and not heard of any updates on anything so far.
hopefully soon (tm)
|
|
I think Gary had said at one point it was going to be released in a book 7 for Way of the wicked.. minionquests 1-3 and some other extra stuff...
but i think he's still 2-3 months behind on Throne of night.. and not heard of any updates on anything so far.
hopefully soon (tm)
Actually, I was referring more to this. Was looking for people who'd actually played and wanted to know as many details as possible.
|
|
So the group continued to scout out the Horn.
The others are looking to spend a bunch of gold to help spruce up the alchemist lab, the forge, and other places. They're also looking into getting a scroll of speak with dead to talk to the minotaur.
They also discovered how the thrones work, and that there's a secret fourth one somewhere.
The wizard is debating on whether or not they should just sell the golem for spare parts as he's starting to believe that it's too much work to fix it up.
Next session, they head to the third level.
|
|
So the group has finally secured the Horn. They have the earth sprite on their side so long as they leave him be, and Erza won't destroy them so long as they promise to bring back Vetra-Kali. The party found the hidden treasury, and have the third eye they need. Halthus the Flayer signed the blood oath because he wants Vetra-Kali back more than anyone else in the group.
Hexor and Vexor are now under the control of the party thanks to them having their amulets, and the lightning elemental was enough of a problem for the party that two members could only aid them for +2 attack bonus boosts.
So, not really sure what to do. Given the timeline Gary set up in Book 6, giving them another month doesn't seem all that plausible. Thorn should step in, but their argument is that he can't say jack as he specifically told them that he doesn't care how long it takes, just to get it done. His words. However, I'm going to have Thorn tell them about the bugbear army putting enough fear into everyone that other armies are now on the rise, and Fire-Axe likely won't survive unless the tears get spread to help dwindle the forces.
Really wish Gary was around.
|
|
The party started working on fixing the traps, and using the organization rules, but weren't doing so hot.
One trap is fixed but it took a week, they still don't have a sacrifice to start things off, Grumblejack has his template, they learned about Drownington being a good place to find minions, and the alchemical golem was finally restored.
I had Thorn come in as the party honestly believes that they have all the time in the world and that the Mitra followers will sit around and do nothing about the bugbear army. Thorn has told them otherwise, and that they need to have the ritual done in 223 days or the gathering armies will take down the bugbears before the tears can have any effect. They are not too thrilled with this. They wanted the Horn 100% rebuilt before attempting such a procedure.
|
I usually try to avoid reading these threads since I'm playing in this campaign, but I just wanted to say that my party has just started "Call Forth Darkness" and we had a great time this past weekend.
We are on the trail (if that's the right word) to the Horn of Abaddon and
It's been great fun so far and I am looking forward to more Fire Mountain Games adventures.
|
|
I usually try to avoid reading these threads since I'm playing in this campaign, but I just wanted to say that my party has just started "Call Forth Darkness" and we had a great time this past weekend.
We are on the trail (if that's the right word) to the Horn of Abaddon and ** spoiler omitted **
It's been great fun so far and I am looking forward to more Fire Mountain Games adventures.
Really? Would love to hear from your GM as to how that went about, and why exactly. I'm curious as to the reasoning for that encounter.
|
|
Really? Would love to hear from your GM as to how that went about, and why exactly. I'm curious as to the reasoning for that encounter.I usually try to avoid reading these threads since I'm playing in this campaign, but I just wanted to say that my party has just started "Call Forth Darkness" and we had a great time this past weekend.
We are on the trail (if that's the right word) to the Horn of Abaddon and ** spoiler omitted **
It's been great fun so far and I am looking forward to more Fire Mountain Games adventures.
I think it had to do with our loot-per-level being too low.
The party started working on fixing the traps, and using the organization rules, but weren't doing so hot.
One trap is fixed but it took a week, they still don't have a sacrifice to start things off, Grumblejack has his template, they learned about Drownington being a good place to find minions, and the alchemical golem was finally restored.
I had Thorn come in as the party honestly believes that they have all the time in the world and that the Mitra followers will sit around and do nothing about the bugbear army. Thorn has told them otherwise, and that they need to have the ritual done in 223 days or the gathering armies will take down the bugbears before the tears can have any effect. They are not too thrilled with this. They wanted the Horn 100% rebuilt before attempting such a procedure.
Good job on the campaign so far =D I'm very interested in reading more of your groups trials/tribulations
|
|
I think it had to do with our loot-per-level being too low. ** spoiler omitted ** Either that or it was a random encounter. [shrugs]
Well, it's not part of the main story (technically random, unless he revised something) hence why I was curious.
@Grollub -- Really? I have to admit it's trying at time.
I think it had to do with our loot-per-level being too low. ** spoiler omitted ** Either that or it was a random encounter. [shrugs]Well, it's not part of the main story (technically random, unless he revised something) hence why I was curious.
@Grollub -- Really? I have to admit it's trying at time.
hell ya.. someday I want to run this adventure path.. so VERY interested how other gm's interpret things/ run some of the events....
and how players react to things..
I personally see a few "grey" areas that werent really fleshed out, in the original, that players could decide to go off on a tangent on... so, as per above, enjoying seeing how things are perceived/ handled from both sides of the screen
ps.. I have been reading a few ( 2 so far ) campaign journals on these forums.. both interesting and totally different.
if you know any good reads, pls post them )