Easy enough! We just concluded the first session.
** spoiler omitted **All in all - pretty good! We glossed over the darker themes, making it clear that the "good nation" of Talingarde was pretty much wrong - they had outlawed all other religion and become a police state of paladins enforcing nice and pretty....
What do you mean by "darker themes" exactly?
What do you mean by "darker themes" exactly?Easy enough! We just concluded the first session.
** spoiler omitted **All in all - pretty good! We glossed over the darker themes, making it clear that the "good nation" of Talingarde was pretty much wrong - they had outlawed all other religion and become a police state of paladins enforcing nice and pretty....
I understand it as in their campaign, the PC are some sort of Freedom Fighters against an oppresive police state. Thus they probably has lessened the "evil" side of the campaign (such as Tiadora being a Devil, and all that).
It's bassically an alternative "antihero" campaign, instead of an evil campaign. A perfect valid option, specially for a group of 13-16 years old players. I, for one, will embrace the chance of playing the evil guys. My Wicked campaign is going to be *damn wicked*, with devil pacts, human sacrifices, undeads, and villain dungeons with torture chambers.
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Yes - by "Darker themes" I mean that I toned down the "it's evil and you serve the Devil God, Lord of Hell" aspects to tailor this particular run through to a group of four 8th & 9th graders. Not that I have any illusions that they need protecting, but that Mommy & Daddy, not to mention the community (I live in pretty darn religiously conservative Texas, USA), might not enjoy a game about serving a lord of Hell. Tiadora was also not presented as overtly sexual, for example. Gustavo has it right, for this group, they are more "escaped felons saving the island from what equates to overzealous parents"
Are they villains? Yes. They chose crimes (they all chose non-violent crimes, independently of each other or me. I kind of wish we'd had one violent one, but it didn't happen. Blasphemy, for the Inquisitor, who did not begin as a Mitran or Asmodean. Fraud & Forgery for the Bard, who tried to con a Talirian Noble out of his title and land. High Theft for the Cleric, who also wished to be an escaped slave, who stole his former master's chariot in the getaway. Being Grumblejack for Grumblejack, whose crime was given only as "being a monster" in the book, and as my son was a latecomer, I just handed him the statblock and he ran with it.), they all escaped from prison, they all contributed to slaying 8 guards in the process.
Oddly, they let the warden live, after they knocked him out, and scarred him with an "F" rune like theirs, only across his chest.*
And for the record, I consider this a playtest. I have a group of regulars I have been playing with for over 8 years (mostly Reaper employees!) that I will be running this for that fully embrace the darker themes - they have asked for custom crimes - one wanted to be guilty of cannibalism, and another asked if sexual assault would be appropriate. That group will relish the murder and mayhem, and I hope that this run through the WotW will help me prepare for the challenge!
*That leads me to a question - I want to bring the Warden back, perhaps in one of the Test rooms. Certainly, Thorn can't be happy that the PCs showed mercy, right? I do need to make it clear that even though we are presenting the kids as "hereoes" in our version, that they still work for the bad guys.
So should the Warden be in one of the Test Rooms, or be an encounter later - he has hunted them down, and attacks them, or something else entirely?
Oh - and Gary, they loved GrumbleJack. He provided them with much needed muscle (a Bard, Inquisitor and Cleric! All 3/4 BAB classes!) and my son played him for comic relief. Being a sarcastic 16 year old, when I eexplained that he was INT 10, so he was as smart as a normal human, my son decided to play him like an internet troll! Mostly, he just said "Grumblejack", except to the PCs, whom he talked to like like a normal, sarcastic bully. It was awesome! The kids and I are all very excited!
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Oh. Was it Tacitus'? Or did they buy it in Aldencross? As written, Aldencross purchase limits are kinda low :/.Malignant Mind, your characters were quite high level if they could cast fireballs. Did they level before attacking balantyne? Did you some sidequest?Wand of fireball.
The rogue talent Black Market Connections combined with a DC 18 Diplomacy check for the towns size, bumps Aldencross to a small city for items and purchase limits. So getting a wand of fireballs was a piece of cake for them.
My party also went straight for the door. The only kills they made in the prison were the guards on their floor, and they managed to take them out quick and quietly. Locked up the dead guards dressed in their rags, while the party dressed as the guards, and escorted Grumblejack out in chains. With their bluff and disguise checks (Everyone in the party had a 20 charisma, and both skills were class skills for everyone), and some expertly forged documents from the party rogue, they had little trouble just walking right out of the prison. They've talked their way out of most encounters so far, other than fights where talking isn't really much of an option, or against people they really want dead.
"Dark" themes ahead in the spoiler.
Given manner of death, I would very much like to see him come back as an angry undead! That's exactly the kind of thing that spawns them!
Exactly. They butchered the guy. They even wanted to crucify him on a pentagram and leave him in the middle of a town, but Thorn stopped them there, saying that would be foolish and would put the church on alert. I'll probably save him for a later book though, so I can figure out a good way to work him in. I thought about maybe at the end of book 2 in the 5 days of hell, but I feel like that's too soon, and he'd just be another random enemy.
*slaps own head*
Sir Balin haunts the party. Of course he does. That's one of those ideas that's so good, I wish I'd thought of it.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
*slaps own head*
** spoiler omitted **
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
I'm thinking Dread Ghost, unless I can find a more fitting undead template.
And to be fair, I think not all parties would have done what mine did. He probably wouldn't haunt a party that just killed him in normal combat. Well, he might. But I think it's less likely.
How about a Revenant?
How about a Revenant?
That's actually pretty fitting.
There's a high chance I steal that haunting idea. :)
There's a high chance I steal that haunting idea. :)
Do it :) I think it works perfectly, especially if any of the characters were originally captured by Balin, and later murdered him in horrible ways. He would die knowing that some of the worst criminals in Talingarde were on the loose. If that's not a reason for him to come back, I don't know what is.
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Gary, could you shed some insight for those who haven't yet and will be playing the first adventure, or even just the free stuff, how they should go about getting the PCs to do ALL of the prison, and not just run for the gates? Surely you must have gotten your various PCs from different playtests and your own group to have scouted around the prison somewhat. Maybe even gone after those who had a hand in branding them?
From what I'm seeing here, 9/10 of everyone who's run it has seen their PCs go for the gate. No extended fights, nothing. And about half of those have lost Grumblejack. It's almost like the first adventure's too much for a 1st level party to attempt. Or rather, they don't want to.
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How have GM's been handling the combat in act 3. I notice there are no maps or anything. I plan on running this on a VTT and I am not very skilled at making maps. Anyone dealt with this and how did you handle it?
For the boat, I used a pre-made boat map. You can Google Image that easily (D&D boat maps). Just used the same map over and over. If I ever had to worry about things that could fly, I just used bead containers as those work well enough. You can change it up every now and again to give the players something nice to look at, but it's fairly unnecessarily.
The bugbears and such are easy enough. Keep the boat, but draw a few trees and a dock structure. The same can be said about the betrayal after they leave for Aldencross.
As for the inn, there's a few online maps for that as well. Everything else is pretty much set up for you.
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Gary, could you shed some insight for those who haven't yet and will be playing the first adventure, or even just the free stuff, how they should go about getting the PCs to do ALL of the prison, and not just run for the gates? Surely you must have gotten your various PCs from different playtests and your own group to have scouted around the prison somewhat. Maybe even gone after those who had a hand in branding them?
From what I'm seeing here, 9/10 of everyone who's run it has seen their PCs go for the gate. No extended fights, nothing. And about half of those have lost Grumblejack. It's almost like the first adventure's too much for a 1st level party to attempt. Or rather, they don't want to.
I'm considering adding One more "errand" to Thorns training. After they complete the 9 Lessons, perhaps a final lesson in "finishing what you start" before they begin the next Act. The final lesson - Return to Branderscar, Retrieve the Warden's Spellbooks, plus the 4 valuable tomes, and then burn it down.
I'm worried that that approach is perhaps too "showy", given that at this point in the plan, secrecy is paramount. Maybe Gary or another GM has an idea?
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I'm considering adding One more "errand" to Thorns training. After they complete the 9 Lessons, perhaps a final lesson in "finishing what you start" before they begin the next Act. The final lesson - Return to Branderscar, Retrieve the Warden's Spellbooks, plus the 4 valuable tomes, and then burn it down.
I'm worried that that approach is perhaps too "showy", given that at this point in the plan, secrecy is paramount. Maybe Gary or another GM has an idea?
That's not bad. The only issue I'd see is that it's going to be 10x more fortified than it was before, and according to Book 4, the Warden's not there no more if he survived. That doesn't mean to say he can't be. Maybe he's been put on probation, and if he messes up again, then Book 4 kicks in. That is if you leave him alive. However, things definitely will be a lot different this time around for how the guards work. Blackerly might be demoted too. Someone new could now be the sergeant, and watching over him. Hell, Blackerly might even be in prison now for everything he's done, and has to stay there until he's on trial. Again, if the PCs had let him live.
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Good points. I looked through Book 4 and didn't see the Warden anywhere, but it was a quick look. Can anybody point me to a page number?
Beyond that, I think the easiest solution to the "leaves the prison without exploring" is if Tiadora instructs the PCs to escape with the Warden's 4 valuable Tomes. They prove that the PCs can do the job, are willing to obey (whereas "escape" is a selfish order the PCs probably wanted to follow anyway), the 4 books provide valuable data to Thorn, AND they damage the reputation of the Warden because not only did the PCs escape, but they ran through his entire prison while doing so, giving the guards multiple opportunities to prove their competenece - and failing!
It works because of all the levels, I think. Sadly, no good for my present campaign, but I think it's good advice for future games.
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Good points. I looked through Book 4 and didn't see the Warden anywhere, but it was a quick look. Can anybody point me to a page number?
Beyond that, I think the easiest solution to the "leaves the prison without exploring" is if Tiadora instructs the PCs to escape with the Warden's 4 valuable Tomes. They prove that the PCs can do the job, are willing to obey (whereas "escape" is a selfish order the PCs probably wanted to follow anyway), the 4 books provide valuable data to Thorn, AND they damage the reputation of the Warden because not only did the PCs escape, but they ran through his entire prison while doing so, giving the guards multiple opportunities to prove their competenece - and failing!
It works because of all the levels, I think. Sadly, no good for my present campaign, but I think it's good advice for future games.
Sure. I mentioned it in an earlier post as well. Pg 96: 5. Payback to the House of Richter.
I gave my party templates (level adjustments) at the beginning so that they'll be able to survive a little better. I still don't expect too much.
Agreed with Kevin Video. You are Wicked but secrecy is your most precious ally.
I think it is not stated enough but the conspiracy has to be kept secret at least until book III and even further.
The aim is not to kill all.
Mind you if you think it works for your game.
Gary made a great point by adding plot XPs and so on.
For me the aim is to escape from Brandenscar. They did that ? Then they get enough Xps more or less to be lvl 2.
If they do some rampage in BRandenscar then they get more gear (useful at lvl 1 but no more useful later) and may be a bit more Xps.
If you want to do lvl up at a given point in adventure, it's even better. Then you get rid of the whole Xp issue.
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One way to make the PC to go through the whole prison (or at the very least, visit The Warden Tower) is to:
1) change the map, so the Warden's tower is in the 2nd floor of the main building, while the prison is in the dungeons (ie: cellar).
2) make the warden to take something of value from one of the players. An easy way, is making him to take the Bonded Item of a wizard PC, to capture the familiar of a Witch, taking a special family heirloom sword (this works great for bladebound magus), or something like that. Alternatively, make it a family grudge in some of the player's background. Maybe Richter was the responsible of their fall in disgrace, something like that. If the players want revenge, or need something that the Warden has, they'll go for him.
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Good points. I looked through Book 4 and didn't see the Warden anywhere, but it was a quick look. Can anybody point me to a page number?Sure. I mentioned it in an earlier post as well. Pg 96: 5. Payback to the House of Richter.
I gave my party templates (level adjustments) at the beginning so that they'll be able to survive a little better. I still don't expect too much.
Thanks for the page! Now I see it!
And I started my PCs at level 2. It means that the prison was easier, but they're still only level 2 and tonight they run the 9 lessons. At this point, their level advantage is nil, but they do have a 1,000 XP advantage, so they'll level a tiny bit sooner.
Since we only level up between sessions, that's not even likely to be relevant any longer, as they will probably level up the same nights they would have before, even.
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I was going to order this today, but noticed it's on backorder. Does that mean that I get the PDF and pay $10 today, and when the print copy is available, I'm charged for the difference?
No, if you order the print/pdf bundle today, you will be charged the full $24.99 and get access to the PDF. Once the print version becomes available again, we will charge for the shipping and handling and then ship it out to you.
Thanks,
cos
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This is more an out of curiosity thing, but did anyone flesh out their party's PCs at all? Like give more detail to how and why they were all arrested? The Slave Trading one is as detailed as it needs to be so that was fine by itself for the vishkanya, but I had the ninja who too murder kill the last Cardinal of Daveryn. The succubus was the one who summoned an evil outsider using her dark powers (it was her incubus dad telling her what she had to do before returning to hell). The oracle's still working on his, as is the anti-paladin. The wizard was betrayed at the College of Thorns (see Book 2), and the cleric was the last of the cultists that was found by Markadian who'd been running (also Book 2).
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Second session - Success! The kids completed the 9 Lessons last night, and while there were 2 very close calls (see spoilers) they emerged successful at the last second!
Big problems: None, really. much more straightforward. they spotted most of the few traps, and one kid was very good at understanding the inscriptions, so they avoided the shrieker (darkvision allowed them to see it and so they skirted the edges of the room) and thus the Draugr attacked in waves, rounds 1,2,4 and 6. they never faced more than 2 simultaneous Draugr, so they felt really robust, and I whiffed a lot.
Lessons learned for next time: call for 2 perception checks upon entering each room. this allows me to find secret doors and traps without having to ask for it, as long as I remember to make it habit.
Bryan,
Tremendous! Thanks for taking a moment to post this. I greatly enjoy reading about the kid's exploits. It sounds like, despite a few close calls, they are powering along their villianous path.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
This is more an out of curiosity thing, but did anyone flesh out their party's PCs at all? Like give more detail to how and why they were all arrested? The Slave Trading one is as detailed as it needs to be so that was fine by itself for the vishkanya, but I had the ninja who too murder kill the last Cardinal of Daveryn. The succubus was the one who summoned an evil outsider using her dark powers (it was her incubus dad telling her what she had to do before returning to hell). The oracle's still working on his, as is the anti-paladin. The wizard was betrayed at the College of Thorns (see Book 2), and the cleric was the last of the cultists that was found by Markadian who'd been running (also Book 2).
I did for my character in a PbP on the boards here. Click on his name and the Background spoiler :) It's a little gory, though I tried not to be too explicit.
I did for my character in a PbP on the boards here. Click on his name and the Background spoiler :) It's a little gory, though I tried not to be too explicit.I'm actually a little surprised you could get such a creature as a playable character for the campaign.
Heh, the GM offered it as an option for starting characters, and I love playing weird races, so I figured, why the hell not. He (Voice of the Voiceless, has posted in this thread) is modifying/adding one of/to the rituals so that I'll be able to progress upwards through the Devilish ranks too :)
Indeed I did - after all, which other AP would playing it through as a literal devil be a logical and easily supportable option? After all - it is how the ranks of the infernal legions advance as well, starting off at the bottom and working their way through until they are a force to be reckoned with.
And there are more than a few adversaries within the AP that will have a great deal of fun attempting to put down a devil.
It does normally take devils several centuries/millenia to advance, so him getting the fast track is pretty sweet :p
Quick question on the Bunyip encounter, I assume the my bloodthirsty party are going to club the seals right in the boat. However I was wondering how the Bunyips could capsize the boat they are in and the only rules I could find related to this involved ship to ship combat, so any help would be appreciated.
I was mostly referring to balance. It's a CR 3 creature. Might be a bit powerful in comparison to the other characters. But I suppose there are rules for that to help out over time.
Mi'Dre will be level 4 before he's got all the abilities that a Gaav starts with - he's getting them piecemeal style.
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Quick question on the Bunyip encounter, I assume the my bloodthirsty party are going to club the seals right in the boat. However I was wondering how the Bunyips could capsize the boat they are in and the only rules I could find related to this involved ship to ship combat, so any help would be appreciated.
Randomdonkey,
My first impulse here is to the play the scene by ear and react to what the PCs do and judge the chances of the bunyips successfully turning over a boat and creating a thriling action scene. However, if you want a more mechanical take...
Bunyips, by default, do not have the capsize ability. However, I would handle it this way.
These bunyips are practiced hunters who have mastered the technique of turning over small boats. The seal boats count as equal size to the bunyips when they operate as a pair. That still means they only capsize the boats on a 19 or better on a d20 (+6 CMB towards a DC 25 target). However, in the middle of dragging in a struggling seal, the boat gets unstable and the bunyips receive a +4 circumstance bonus. So that means on a 15 or better the boat turns over. The PCs in the boat will certainly notice that something is banging at the bottom of their boat (even if they fail) and will either have to find a way to deal with these submerged hunters or face attack after attack as they haul in seals. If the PCs hunt long enough, eventually the bunyips will succeed and knock a boat into the drink. And that's when the action really start...
Hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Quick question on the Bunyip encounter, I assume the my bloodthirsty party are going to club the seals right in the boat. However I was wondering how the Bunyips could capsize the boat they are in and the only rules I could find related to this involved ship to ship combat, so any help would be appreciated.Randomdonkey,
** spoiler omitted **
Hope that helps,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
Thanks for the advice I might just start rolling dice to scare them into thinking something is happening and if they catch a large number of seals that day they will need to deal with the underwater threat, which might be difficult for the melee heavy party I have.
Well....my players finished book 1 last night. Everyone absolutely loves this campaign so far.
Well....my players finished book 1 last night. Everyone absolutely loves this campaign so far.
** spoiler omitted **
It would make for a cool set piece for future use in a "standard" campaign/adventure.
It would make for a cool set piece for future use in a "standard" campaign/adventure.Well....my players finished book 1 last night. Everyone absolutely loves this campaign so far.
** spoiler omitted **
Two words. Corpse. Tree.
Although...not all of them were completely dead...
Douglas:
Foreshadowing them is nice, but it's quite against Thorne's intention about the Knots. It's supposed that knots don't know each other, for the most part, because he hides his master plan to everybody, including the other knots. They have no clue about what are those knots, until they need to (they don't know about Vastenus Barca, the gold-recruiting knot, or the assasins knot, the first knot going to the Horn, or Barnabus Thrain, until it's abslutelly required for their mission.)
We just finished our 4th session (4-5 hours each) with the 9 lessons. And here is how it went
The party is made of
a drow ninja,
a gobelin rogue
a tiefelin rogue
and a half drow summoner (female).
So strongly orientated towards stealth and treachery, the summoner with its high charisma being the party face.
Surpringly they didn't detect all the traps and went quite bluntly through them (bluntly for them at least). Then they arrived to timeon. Instead of torturing him they told him that they were trapped too and were trying to escape so he should come along if he didn't want to be tortured. Since they had the circlets they were all disguised beforehand, the goblin as a scared child and all of them had their asmodeus medalion beneath their clothes.
They had already met Timeon and Sir Balin who was looking for the escaped prisonners and came knocking at the manor just after thei escape, but before the nine lessons. (I was following a suggestion from Kevin Video or Doug ?) The summoner pretended to be the owner of the manor and when Sir Balin said he was looking for escaped prisoners, the summoner PC begged to get some soldiers for her protection. "No one will help a damsel in distress?". Sir balin told her he would arrest the scums in no time but he had to move on unfortunately.... IT was so funny.
Anyway ... so Timeon being so gullible and having already seen this lady, gave all the hints he knew. They were therefore well aware of what was about to happen.
Through the Mitral Cobras, the team decided it was a tough enemy. The eidolon and a summoned dog handled the cobras long enough for the PCs to pass through this room without fighting. The eidolon was "dead" for 24 hours. For the shreiker they all went in quietly (without light since they all have darkvision). They were pretty scared since they didn't really know what a shrieker was and were very careful not to make any noise.
For the Draug they got rid of them very easily since the draug took a long time to wake up (I had rolled round 2,3, 5 and 6). So they've been killed again without a sweat.
Finally came the hilarious part.
Timeon opened the last door. Since they know it was the last door they were expecting a major trap.
But what a surprise when they saw Sir Balin who was relieved to see his squire alive. Again they persuaded Balin that they were trapped too. Our summoner again begged him, cried for help.
Sir Balin, almost as gullible as his squire was ready to fight asmodeus himself. This moment was a great time for roleplaying and deception.
Sir balin quite easily killed both cobras (since he had a potion I ruled out he had lost 3D6 HP and didn't want to bother too much about it). He went back all the way to room 1 and then climbed the stairs with the party closely following, the summoner told me "Adriastus said he wants the medalion, I bring him the medalion, nothing in the "contract" says i have to bring it alone" I was laughing my head off. Sir balin met a few servants which he slaughtered for those who were not quick enough to escape. I decided that Thorn would be very interested to see how things would go and would not interfere. Finally Sir Balin saw the exit door and pushed hard the PCs to escape from this horror mansion. He would go with them to get some reinforcements.
Obviously the PC didn't want him to escape and finally, while the summoner was catching his attention, both rogues and the ninja decided to backstab him. With good rolls he fell in one round.
Thorn was at the same time upset of the mess they made (specially Tiadora for the loss of minions) and very happy of the creative solution his knot took. But finally he decided that only the completion of the objective mattered and congratulated them.
It was a very good session for both GM and players. At first I was a bit "wary" as they do not like dungeons too much. But they said they really enjoyed this one and the lessons each time.
Great work Gary.