If Aragorn is the model for a spell-less Ranger, who (or what) would the model for a spell-less Paladin be? A medieval version of Captain America?
If Aragorn is the model for a spell-less Ranger, who (or what) would the model for a spell-less Paladin be? A medieval version of Captain America?
I don't think Roland cast spells either.
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I too would offer gold for these products.So, what's next? :)
Spell-less paladin?
An update to Ryan Costello Jr's spell-less druid shifter?
Well, I can tell you that Wolfgang recently contacted me about doing an Expanded version of another class for a future New Paths product, so there are absolutely more coming. I probably shouldn't say which class though :)
We have ways of figuring out what the next class is.
Usually they involve waiting for it to be released...
Well, I can tell you that Wolfgang recently contacted me about doing an Expanded version of another class for a future New Paths product, so there are absolutely more coming. I probably shouldn't say which class though :)I too would offer gold for these products.So, what's next? :)
Spell-less paladin?
An update to Ryan Costello Jr's spell-less druid shifter?
Is it the spell-less wizard?
Well, I can tell you that Wolfgang recently contacted me about doing an Expanded version of another class for a future New Paths product, so there are absolutely more coming. I probably shouldn't say which class though :)I too would offer gold for these products.So, what's next? :)
Spell-less paladin?
An update to Ryan Costello Jr's spell-less druid shifter?
im guessing druid
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Is it the spell-less wizard?Well, I can tell you that Wolfgang recently contacted me about doing an Expanded version of another class for a future New Paths product, so there are absolutely more coming. I probably shouldn't say which class though :)I too would offer gold for these products.So, what's next? :)
Spell-less paladin?
An update to Ryan Costello Jr's spell-less druid shifter?
Ha!
It's called the commoner ... :)
No, the next expanded class I'll be tackling will definitely have spells :)
You know, I would love a New Path of the Savant.
Feat-less Fighter?
The rage-less barbarian?
We have ways of figuring out what the next class is.
Usually they involve waiting for it to be released...
I needed a good laugh. Grading papers / tests is depressing. Thanks Cheapy :)
Well earned! Hopefully this propels you to make more cool classes.
+1 to that
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Question for the author and editor- my GM says he'll only allow animal companions that are in the list... is the roc intended to be an allowed animal companion since it's listed in the bestiary as a possible ranger companion? If so, would you mind clarifying that in the document and gm's can just decide to tell players they can't find a roc egg to buy if they don't want to allow it?
Actually, could you clarify what you mean by "only allow animal companions that are in the list"?
When you say "on the list" do you mean the list of animal companions allowed to rangers in general? In other words, are you asking a question about the spell-less ranger specifically or the ranger class in general?
The list of animal companions a spell-less ranger may officially choose matches the list that a core rules ranger may choose. It is a basically a subset of the druid list. The roc, as well as a large number of other animals, are indeed presented with animal companion rules in the various Bestiaries, and are also available as additional animal companion choices as long as the GM is OK with it.
The list given in the Expanded Spell-less Ranger is correct, in other words, because it correctly matches the list given in the core rules ranger class. Additional animal companion choices given in the Paizo Bestiaries should be considered official as well, with GM approval.
Quick question - If you apply the Falconer archetype to the Spell-Less Ranger, what would you replace the Share Spells ability with?
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Did I read that right and you've managed to enter this into Hero Lab? Any intention to share? I'd love to save myself some coding on this one.KTFish7, if you have finished the Hero Lab files, please send them my way. I'll make sure that everyone who buys the PDF gets a copy of the data files as well.I am in fact still working out a few issues with some feats, but the files are almost complete, and yes, I will be sending them over as soon as they are.
Hopefully by the end of the weekend at most.
Was there any update to the Hero Lab version?
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Quick question - If you apply the Falconer archetype to the Spell-Less Ranger, what would you replace the Share Spells ability with?
I'm not sure if I understand your question.
Unless I missed it, the Falconer archetype does not grant, replace or make any mention of a Share Spells ability.
Are you referring to the share spells ability that druid and core rules ranger animal companions get at 1st level? If so, the animal companion of a spell-less ranger would not get the share spells ability (no spell to share, after all:)
Did that answer your question?
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Quick question - If you apply the Falconer archetype to the Spell-Less Ranger, what would you replace the Share Spells ability with?I'm not sure if I understand your question.
Unless I missed it, the Falconer archetype does not grant, replace or make any mention of a Share Spells ability.
Are you referring to the share spells ability that druid and core rules ranger animal companions get at 1st level? If so, the animal companion of a spell-less ranger would not get the share spells ability (no spell to share, after all:)
Did that answer your question?
Hey Arknight, I'm curious to hear what you ended up doing!
Heya Marc,
I noticd you have the feats Deadly Accuracy and Defensive shot using almost exactly the same wording as the same feats in SGG's Feats of Combat, but its not listed in your section 15. Oversight?
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Heya Marc,
I noticd you have the feats Deadly Accuracy and Defensive shot using almost exactly the same wording as the same feats in SGG's Feats of Combat, but its not listed in your section 15. Oversight?
Hmmm ... I don't think I even have SGG's Feats of Combat ...
It's certainly possible it's a case of parallel design though - those feats are pretty obvious needs for an archer type character.
If they are really that similar, I'll talk to Wolfgang to see if we want to include SGG's Feats of Combat in the Section 15, even if only so we error on the side of doing the 'right thing", so to speak :)
Thanks for bring it to our attention!!!
If they are really that similar, I'll talk to Wolfgang to see if we want to include SGG's Feats of Combat in the Section 15, even if only so we error on the side of doing the 'right thing", so to speak :)
Well since you don't have The Genius Guide to Feats of Battle, here are both versions of both feats:
First, Deadly Accuracy from SGG's Feats of Battle
Deadly Accuracy (Combat)
Your aim is too good to deal minimum damage.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You have deadly accuracy with your agility-based weapon attacks. When dealing damage with a weapon to which you add your Dexterity to your attack rolls (all ranged weapon attacks, and melee weapon attacks made with Weapon Finesse), you can reroll any result of 1 on your weapon's damage dice. Only weapon attacks that require an attack roll benefit from this feat. You must keep the result of the reroll, even if it is another 1.
And the same feat from Spell-Less Ranger
Deadly Accuracy (Combat)
You have deadly accuracy with your ranged weapon attacks.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When dealing damage with a ranged weapon, you can reroll any result of 1 on your weapon's damage dice. Only weapon attacks that require an attack roll benefit from this feat. You must keep the result of the reroll, even if it is another 1.
Here's Defensive Shot from SGG's Feats of Battle
Defensive Shot (Combat)
You can make a ranged attack without distracting yourself from immediate threats.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
Benefit: You may decide to make a ranged attack defensively, taking a –2 penalty to all ranged attacks you make during the round. Such
attacks do not provoke attacks of opportunity. If you take any other actions during the round that does provoke an attack of opportunity (such as casting a spell) you suffer the consequences normally.
Normal: Making a ranged attack normally provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening foes.
And here's Defensive Shot from Spell-Less Ranger
Defensive Shot (Combat)
You can make ranged attacks without being distracted by immediate threats.
Prerequisites: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot.
Benefit: You may make ranged attacks defensively. To do so, you must take a –2 penalty to all ranged attacks you make during the round. Such attacks do not provoke attacks of opportunity. If you take other actions during the round which do provoke an attack of opportunity, you suffer those consequences normally.
As you can see not only are the game rules nearly identical, but the wording is much closer than I'd expect from parallel development,
Both those feats are also up on pfsrd.com, from Feats of Battle, so maybe you ran into them there?
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Thanks for posting these!
Yeah, there are certainly similarities in wording etc (although, it should be noted, there are also differences)
I'm not sure on this one! As I said, I don't have that SGG book (although I DO have a number of SGG releases).
When you say the feats are also up on pfsrd.com, do you mean http://www.d20pfsrd.com? If so, I don't check that site very much (although I certainly have on a couple occasions). The vast amount of my time I tend to spend on a site like that is on Paizo's official one: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd so I wouldn't think I saw the feats there and somehow remembered them without, you know, remembering that I remembered them :)
Honestly, the best I can offer is that it really is a case of parallel design. And heck, since the SGG feats were, I assume, designed by Owen K. C. Stephens (whom I have a HUGE amount of respect for!) I guess I should be quite happy that I came up with a couple feats that are similar to ones he came up with! I guess I'm doing something right! :)
Honestly, the best I can offer is that it really is a case of parallel design. And heck, since the SGG feats were, I assume, designed by Owen K. C. Stephens (whom I have a HUGE amount of respect for!) I guess I should be quite happy that I came up with a couple feats that are similar to ones he came up with! I guess I'm doing something right! :)
How true!
When working on a past product with a partner, "Owen did it." became high praise when coming up with novel ideas :) It meant we were on the right track!
Kobold Press
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On reflection, I would be more convinced of parallel development if they didn't have the same name for the feats. They both might come from some other source (like Advanced Feats, netbook of feats, etc). I just don't know.
Since it's open content, I'm not worried about it one way or the other, but I think it's best to add the SGG title to the OGL listing. Which means I have an excuse to go buy a copy of Feats of Battle! :)
Deadly Accuracy does appear in other places too. I recall it being in the SGG Archer Archetypes, the Adventurer's Handbook, and here and there. It's one of those feats where I distinctly remember thinking "Oh, it's here too?" It's also worth noting that the SGG book also had a Greater version of deadly accuracy.
I had meant this Adventure's Handbook, which does include Feats of Battle. Pretty strange.
When you say the feats are also up on pfsrd.com, do you mean http://www.d20pfsrd.com?
Sorry, yes that is what I meant.
Honestly, the best I can offer is that it really is a case of parallel design. And heck, since the SGG feats were, I assume, designed by Owen K. C. Stephens (whom I have a HUGE amount of respect for!)Yes, Mr. Stephens is credited as the designer in Feats of Battle.
Deadly Accuracy does appear in other places too. I recall it being in the SGG Archer Archetypes, the Adventurer's Handbook, and here and there.
Yes, it is in SGG's AH (also by Mr. Stephens). Which made me remeber something else.
AH has the feat Resolute, as follows:
Resolute
While not fearless, you stand fast in the face
of even the most overwhelming mundane and
mystic fears.
Prerequisites: Iron Will.
Benefit: Any time you would normally be cowering, frightened, or panicked, you are instead shaken for the same duration. You take only half the penalties from similar effects.
While Spell-Less ranger has:
Greater Iron Will
Your superior force of will allows you to resist both
magical and mundane fear.
Prerequisite: Improved Iron Will.
Benefit: Any effect that would normally cause you to become cowering, frightened, or panicked, instead only makes you shaken for the same duration.
Which again isn't exactly the same (and DOES have a different name), but it's another very-similar feat from a source with the other two, and I haven't seen the "take a lesser version of fear" effect anywhere else.
I've seen it a few different places.
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Hey folks,
I'd suggest no one read too much into finding similar wording in different products. No d20 designer works in a vacuum, and a lot of language exists because it's the easiest and most obvious way to express a specific rule. Indeed, wording for feats (and other rules elements) is often based on existing wording because it's already proven clear. There's no way to compare any two d20 books on similar themes without finding a lot of similar wording.
Then maybe it's a case of everyone drawing from the same official source? Except that in Ultimate Combat, that feat name is a rage power.
I would love to learn the original source, so it could be credited properly. Sounds like Feats of Battle ain't it, as the AH is older.
To the best of my knowledge, Feats of Battle is the first place I included such a feat. The SGG Adventurer's Handbook came out later, and included the feats from Feats of Battle.
IIRC, I got the idea for my Deadly Accuracy from the powerful sneak rogue talent from the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Resource Document.
Defensive Shot is so obvious, both in name and basic implementation, I assume it's been invented many times by GMs for house rules. Indeed, a quick Google search for "Defensive Shot" d20, shows a houserule version that works basically the same way for 3.0 from 2002. I've worked with Marc, and he's a smart guy. I'm totally prepared to believe he invented this one in parallel development.
Wolf, if you want the section 15 from Feats of Battle because you'd prefer to include it anyway, just drop me a line. I'm happy to send it to you. :)
Defensive Shot is so obvious, both in name and basic implementation, I assume it's been invented many times by GMs for house rules. Indeed, a quick Google search for "Defensive Shot" d20, shows a houserule version that works basically the same way for 3.0 from 2002.
Some 3.x d20 book had a nearly identical feat (-2 to ranged attacks & then you don't provoke AoOs); the Deepwood Sniper PC in my 3e game used it. Heck if I can remember which one of the zillion I own had it, though. I know it was a print book, though -- it'd be much easier to find it if I could run Find on a folder of PDFs. :)
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Kobold Press
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Owen and Jadeite, thanks for the correction on the AH pub date. I clearly misremembered whether AH or FOB came first..
Owen, send me the Section 15, it just seems simpler to say this is substantially the same as the FOB feat and credit accordingly. I agree that the rogue talent in the SRD is the likely source of inspiration for both you and Marc on this one, but hey, no reason not to point people to the good stuff in FoB.
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Thanks everyone (and a HUGE special thanks to Owen for taking the time to add his comments!)
Although the feats do have differences, they are admittedly similar enough that adding SGG's Feats of Battle to the product's section 15 seems like kinda a no brainer (in fact, I said as much earlier in the thread :)
There honestly was no nefarious conspiracy or intentional wrong-doing here but it still makes complete sense to give credit where it is due and since the feats have similarities, giving credit to Owen and Feats of Battle is 100% cool with me!
An interesting side note - I pulled out my notes for the Expanded Spell-less Ranger last evening and turned to the feats section. I hadn't remembered this until now, but when I first conceived of the Deadly Accuracy feat, I called it Pinpoint Aim, then I crossed that out and called it Pinpoint Accuracy, crossed that out and scribbled something I can’t quite read now ;) I then crossed THAT out and changed the feat to Deadly Accuracy …
Anyway, hopefully we can maybe turn the discussion back to the Spell-less Ranger class itself again :)
Any progress on the Hero Lab files?
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Kobold Press
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Sadly, I have nothing to report on the Hero Lab files. When I do, I'll definitely shout about it here.
However, there is a nice review of the class up at Stargazer's World.
this is a solid expansion to the original concept. If you like the Ranger class, whether the spell-casting bothers you or not, make sure you check it out.