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You can't just respond to an argument with more questions! At least say "It allows for more interesting options" or some other thing like that. And then come up with a reason for why they shouldn't get a lycanthropic cthulhthite totem, because that's where the next argument is going: where do you draw the line.
Pretty sure the question was answered, just in the form of questions. But if you insist:
Personally, the reasons to make celestial totems available far outnumber and outweigh whatever reasons there could be to keep them out of the game. Chaotic Good exists. Chaotic, barbarian, primitive celestials exist. Good barbarian characters exist. Some of them could be just as Good as any paladin. LG isn't Best Good after all. There are in fact cultures and characters in Golarion canon that just scream this sort of thing, like the Lyrune-Quah's Desna-revering Moon Maidens.
There are far too many neat things that can be done with that concept. The possibilities are incredible. All players need is a mechanical option so that their characters can walk the walk instead of being forced to only talk the talk and have their concept feel hollow.
As for lycanthropic totems or eldritch abomination totems? Sure. They could fit if approached from the right angles.
But I'd wager that celestial totems are desired by a larger number of players and have the widest general appeal as far as an option that's been denied two years going now. I mean it seems like a more obvious concept needing support than say, hive totems. Nothing against hive totems, but that's still a bit more fringe than support for good characters. And that supports been cut out of books twice now, despite the support for evil-flavored barbarians being there as soon as totems first showed up.
Some people want to play holy-themed barbarians. Why rain on their parade?
Hopefully that's gonig to change with the Good-support coming in the Companion line.
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On-topic, liked the note on how aasimar are often "miracle babies" for couples otherwise incapable of concieving, even if, and I understand why the specifics aren't really explored, it led to some confused imagery concerning how it works out for some couples.
You can't just respond to an argument with more questions!
Of course he can. It's a common rethorical tool to demonstrate how a question is absurd by taking an even more absurd position.
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I think Mikaze makes a good overall point...I'd like to see more heroic "good" options for players as well. It's cool to play the anti-hero, but I'd like to see more "good guys".
I know pulp fantasy is filled with characters that are fairly self-serving, and often thieves, and that in the end they do the right thing...but I'd like to see some options and choices for folks that want to do good for good's sake, and have just as many tools and toys to play with as the bad guys and the anti-heroes.
My players often want to play Neutral (of some persuasion) characters just so they can act like they want to occasionally, and so they can use some of those "morally questionable" tools and tactics sometimes, but I'd love to have some mechanical encouragement for them to go the "good" route.
I stay with Mikaze^^
Lines? Why on the earth should anyone draw lines? Lines are made to be SHATTERED! GRAWRRRRR! (so speaks my CG Celestial Titan Mauler)
I would also like more options for good characters both for PCs and for NPCs.
Angelkin are officially the best stat-kitted racial option for paladins now, dang.
(Not that this is a bad thing)
Angelkin are officially the best stat-kitted racial option for paladins now, dang.
(Not that this is a bad thing)
Musetouched would be better for archer paladins. If they would feel like being paladins at all. :D
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I want my chaotic-good barbarian of Cayden Cailean, after powering up his celestial totem, to say to a daemon: "Cayden sends his regards you filty #@!*!!!" before he smashes his face in with his holy axe. I want to play a sorceror with an Archon(or Agathion or Azata)bloodline to manifest the terrible anger aspect of her celestial lineage to cower a group of gnolls. She gives them one chance to surrender(via an intimidate check)before she rains fiery(yet holy)death upon them. I want a character(not just a paladin) to radiate so much holy power that enemies wet themselves.
Musetouched would be better for archer paladins. If they would feel like being paladins at all. :DAngelkin are officially the best stat-kitted racial option for paladins now, dang.
(Not that this is a bad thing)
Point, I meant for default melee paladins.
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I want my chaotic-good barbarian of Cayden Cailean, after powering up his celestial totem, to say to a daemon: "Cayden sends his regards you filty #@!*!!!" before he smashes his face in with his holy axe. I want to play a sorceror with an Archon(or Agathion or Azata)bloodline to manifest the terrible anger aspect of her celestial lineage to cower a group of gnolls. She gives them one chance to surrender(via an intimidate check)before she rains fiery(yet holy)death upon them. I want a character(not just a paladin) to radiate so much holy power that enemies wet themselves.
Between this and Mikaze's ever-unanswered requests for Celelstial Totems, methinks a Kobold Quarterly article could be put together. Well, if it turns out long enough to be an article and not just a blog posting or something.
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Ideas to give classes 'good' options;
Barbarians - celestial totems
Bards - sacred hymns with effects like give allies fast healing, or cow undead
Clerics - new Good sub-domains or cleric spells related to the seven virtues
Druids - a good subtype spell for the NG druids, perhaps a feat that allows a druid to add the celestial template to an animal that he wildshapes into (or summons via summun nature's ally)
Fighters - ?
Monks - sanctified ki strike option (add good to unarmed attack for overcoming DR), ki smite evil option (blow a ki to do extra damage to evil creatures), undead smite option (blow a ki to do extra positive energy damage to undead), share wholeness of body option / give own hit points to others
Paladins - they already own this
Rangers - ?
Rogues - ?
Sorcerers - Agathion, Angel, Peri, Archon, Azata-variants of the celestial Bloodline
Wizard - [good] arcane spells, perhaps even a Virtue specialist wizard, who can prepare an extra [good] spell per spell level, but can't prepare [evil] spells at all, and has a pair of School powers related to being extra-special-good
I would rather have a bardic music ability that causes damage to undead every round the bard performs.
Bards - sacred hymns with effects like give allies fast healing, or cow undead
I totally read that as giving your allies access to undead bovines...
Druids have Planar Wildshape already... but I love your ideas.
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Got the Celestial Totems and the Archon and Agathion bloodlines done. Having some issues with the Azata bloodline in that most of my ideas just seem to be a (slight) modification of the Maestro bloodline. Crossblooded Maesto/Celestial would basically do it, as far as I can see it.
I'll get to work on Set's other ideas. Hard to make a lot of it not just seem like 3.5 D&D Book of Exalted Deeds retreads, though.
Anyway, we should start up a new thread elsewhere for these ideas and not just muck up this product discussion thread.
Edit: And here's that thread.
Angelkin are officially the best stat-kitted racial option for paladins now, dang.
There's also the Suli.
Strange though, that in all the multitudes of so-called "PC-compatible races"—including all the aasimar and tiefling variants and all of the circus-freak races from the Advanced Race Guide—there's not a single one that is as suited to the magus as these, with Str and Int bonuses.
Angelkin are officially the best stat-kitted racial option for paladins now, dang.There's also the Suli.
Strange though, that in all the multitudes of so-called "PC-compatible races"—including all the aasimar and tiefling variants and all of the circus-freak races from the Advanced Race Guide—there's not a single one that is as suited to the magus as these, with Str and Int bonuses.
Suli have an Intelligence penalty while the Angelkin do not. Considering Paladins are not Intelligence dependent beyond their skill points it isn't a huge point, but it is a point nevertheless.
If you're looking for oddities, make a list of the game's races with a Wisdom bonus. It is surprisingly small. Bonuses to Charisma, as far as I've seen, are the most common.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@Set
For fighters, something that allows them the same bypass DR as for the monks, maybe a morning blessing ritual they perform?*
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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If you're looking for oddities, make a list of the game's races with a Wisdom bonus. It is surprisingly small. Bonuses to Charisma, as far as I've seen, are the most common.
That's one thing that caught me with the Devil tainted tiefling. Wisdom bonus, int penalty. Really made me want to play an inquisitor.
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I need to look over it more in-depth, but I really like the flavor the Archon Style feats support. Really lends itself to self-sacrificing bodyguard-type monks.
The notes on Osironi and Thuvian aasimar and the Emberkin make me want to know more about the Peri that much more.
** spoiler omitted **
Tangent:
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@Set
For fighters, something that allows them the same bypass DR as for the monks, maybe a morning blessing ritual they perform?*
** spoiler omitted **
That's certainly an idea.
Porting over the 'invocations' from the Scarred Lands setting (short prayers any faithful person can make to a god to get a minor bonus for 1 round, such as a prayer to Tanil, the goddess of the hunt and archery, to get a +1 sacred bonus to a ranged attack made in the next round) could be one option, that would apply to pretty much any class.
Something akin to Arcana Unearthed's Rituals (or even Ceremonies) could also be an option.
I'm not 100% in love with either of those options, but they definitely fit the theme.
The spoilered tangent is neat. It reminds me of King Arthur being asked what was the most potent thing about Excalibur, and being scolded for not realizing that it was the scabbard, which protected the bearer from the blades of his foes!
I've seen a couple different versions of a 'shield ally' feat, but never one that really seemed worth a feat. That's the sort of thing that I'd love to see from a 'holy' fighter, the ability to parry block or even intercept (and take to oneself) blows meant for adjacent allies, or to provide one's shield bonus to one (or more!) adjacent allies.
Combat techniques based on 'temperance', such as a Combat Expertise upgrade that allows you to block a single blow per round (similar to how Deflect Arrows or Crane Style can block an attack), or even gain Attacks of Opportunity against those who attack you, while you take the Total Defense action, allowing you to do nothing but retaliate.
Another 'bodyguard' feat might allow you to designate one (or more!) adjacent allies as 'wards,' and if they are attacked by a foe you threaten, you gain an automatic AoO against that foe, for turning his attention away from you and threatening your 'ward.' I'm sure there are versions of this out there as well, but compiling (and balancing / tweaking) them in a theme-appropriate 'combat feats of virtue' sort of article might be cool.
I loved Scarred Lands, I almost got to run a Titan Spawn game where the players would choose to either try and show that Titan Spawn aren't all horrible monsters.... or try and Resurrect a Titan.
Does anyone else feel bad that the guy on the cover died alone?
Does anyone else feel bad that the guy on the cover died alone?He didn't die alone, he is my foot rest right now.
Poor fellow,
poor poor fellow.hope he gets something for being a foot stool.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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They came upon him in a slavering horde, ten times a hundred, yet the bridge was wide enough for only one at a time. Sword ablaze, burning crown set above his brow like a beacon in the darkness, Aram the Golden-Heart struck them down, one by one. Claws rang against his armor, yet could not scratch it. Acid blood stained his blade, but could not etch it. His was the voice of truth, and all souls who heard rejoiced in it, even as the demons quailed.
For three days he fought. When at last he fell, it was as a light departing—yet he did not fade entirely. The sword and mail lie still within the lake of fire, untouchable, a brightness that may not be shaded.
We still sing his song, that the damned may remember.
Pretty sure he's not a footstool :P
All three of those subdomains are probably going to wind up being Core in Ponyfinder. ;)
That realization boiled the DM's blood. His rage kinda rubbed on me too. it was rather hilarious, since I don't really HATE MLP as much as I do my best to ignore it.
So the traits below the alternate assimar types, those are traits one can pick up via adopted, right? Or are those supposed to be traits like sturdy or lucky, part of the races stat block?
A player in my group wants to play an Aasimar and thus, I had to read the Companion in greater detail. I really like the book. However, I have to give a fair warning to GMs about the "variant aasimar abilities" table (pages 18 - 19). The table is not really fair in any way. In theory, it could happen that a character gains two additional +2 ability modifiers in place of his daylight ability (sp) and even one additional ability modifier is much stronger than this. I hope that similar tables in future companions are more balanced than this one.
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A player in my group wants to play an Aasimar and thus, I had to read the Companion in greater detail. I really like the book. However, I have to give a fair warning to GMs about the "variant aasimar abilities" table (pages 18 - 19). The table is not really fair in any way. In theory, it could happen that a character gains two additional +2 ability modifiers in place of his daylight ability (sp) and even one additional ability modifier is much stronger than this. I hope that similar tables in future companions are more balanced than this one.
It's based off the table for tieflings in Blood of Fiends which is based off the original one from 2e planescape. No, it isn't balanced, but that isn't really the idea behind it. It's supposed to convey the idea of random distant heritage of celestial or fiendish ancestry, but no, balanced it ain't.
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The Advanced Races Guide says that planetouched become adults in their 60s, and live 250-850 years.
Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends don't mention this at all, and in fact Blood of Fiends specifically says that even tieflings of nonhuman descent share the human lifespan.
So which is correct? I'm playing an Aasimar in Pathfinder Society, and I want to make sure my background is legit.
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The Advanced Races Guide says that planetouched become adults in their 60s, and live 250-850 years.
Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends don't mention this at all, and in fact Blood of Fiends specifically says that even tieflings of nonhuman descent share the human lifespan.So which is correct? I'm playing an Aasimar in Pathfinder Society, and I want to make sure my background is legit.
The ARG is way off the mark with some of its lifespan numbers. Blood Of is correct. :)
What is the aasimar on page 13 supposed to be exactly?
Besides an aasimar...I believe it's supposed to be one that's descended from angels, judging by the bald head and stubby vestigial wings.
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What is the aasimar on page 13 supposed to be exactly?
The art on that page is of an evil aasimar who has not only shunned his celestial birthright, but has embraced the foul teachings of Zon-Kuthon. The burning hatred within his heart has manifested itself through his halo, which now glows a crimson red, and he's clipped and stained his wings so he no longer need suffer stares or accusations of celestial kinship from his newfound allies among the Church of the Midnight Lord. The spiked chain he wields is the favored weapon of his patron deity, and it has seen him through many battles against paladins, crusaders, and even celestials.
What is the aasimar on page 13 supposed to be exactly?The art on that page is of an evil aasimar who has not only shunned his celestial birthright, but has embraced the foul teachings of Zon-Kuthon. The burning hatred within his heart has manifested itself through his halo, which now glows a crimson red, and he's clipped and stained his wings so he no longer need suffer stares or accusations of celestial kinship from his newfound allies among the Church of the Midnight Lord. The spiked chain he wields is the favored weapon of his patron deity, and it has seen him through many battles against paladins, crusaders, and even celestials.
That works too. :D