Pathfinder Chronicles: Dragons Revisited (OGL)

*sniff* you left the greatest dragons off the cover.

A Blue putting a mouthy silver in his place, now -that- would be cover art!

Are there any specific Dragons that will be expanded upon? The powerful elder Dragons or a well known Draco-Lich or two?

Along thos same lines, will we see sample dragons spotlighted, like in the Draconomicon? Info on generaic dragons is good, but I would love to see maybe a short peice about Candle Lighter, the ancient red dragon that terrorizes Cheliax, for example.

Edit: What is the street date for this book? Amazon tells me it should have shipped today, but so far nothing.

sweet!

The book gives info on the 10 main dragon types that appear in the MM. It also talks about specific dragons of those types in Golarion, and gives a bio and stat block for one dragon of each type.

Quick review: WOW!

I just took a quick flip through the PDF and it is beautiful. This is going to be a hot product when it hits the shelves. There is no doubt.

Check out the actual cover art! Woot!

-Lisa

It's simply *amazing*... I've said it before, and I'm saying it again: the art and maps (and art direction/layouts, too) in Paizo's products are top-notch -- it almost seems like the artists put some extra effort into their work for Paizo! :)

Hey, I have this ordered, but I think it's not going to be shipped until the end of the month. Is it possible to get it as a download in the next few days so I can have something to read on the plane back home?

Hey, I have this ordered, but I think it's not going to be shipped until the end of the month. Is it possible to get it as a download in the next few days so I can have something to read on the plane back home?

Sorry—the free PDF is fulfilled when we ship your print copy (which is also when you pay for it). If you want to have it shipped now (along with Pathfinder 19 and the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide), you can let customer service know (but keep in mind that you'd pay shipping charges for two shipments this way, instead of one if you wait until Pathfinder 20 and the next Module come in).

I skimmed over the pdf last night, and I'm seriously liking what I've seen so far in the blue, red, white, and silver subsections. I especially love the reimagined blue, and its artwork. The brief mention of Asuulek in the red section was very cool too, as well as the book's expansion on the idea of warring white and silver dragons in Elemental Air. Very cool. :D

Will be digging into this more in depth over the weekend.

Does it contain information on a certain blue dragon featured in the CotCT-AP?

There is a glitch in the cover in the PDF, just above the author's name.

There is a glitch in the cover in the PDF, just above the author's name.

I've noticed that the glitch appears only with Foxit Reader. Adobe Reader displays it fine. Too bad, as I much prefer to use the former...

The full art for the dragons are at Ben Wootten's DeviantArt site.

*Grrr*... my FLGS still hasn't received my copy! I thought it took them only a couple of weeks to receive it, but it's still "on its way". Maybe I need to subscribe?

Does it contain information on a certain blue dragon featured in the CotCT-AP?

Nope, that secret was kept :)

So I take it no Gem dragons? I was thinking that maybe Pathfinder might do something completly differnt with the Gem Dragons even though they aren't OGL the names might still be used. Maybe make them a Lawful or Chaotic group instead of neutral. Or make them Asia type of dragons? Which I kinda think they should have been in the first place. Heck get rid of the psionics altogether just use the name. I doubt Wizards would have an issue with that its like coming out with a Knight class, the name is generic, as long as your not coping the game mechanics/fluff.

So I take it no Gem dragons? I was thinking that maybe Pathfinder might do something completly differnt with the Gem Dragons even though they aren't OGL the names might still be used. Maybe make them a Lawful or Chaotic group instead of neutral. Or make them Asia type of dragons? Which I kinda think they should have been in the first place. Heck get rid of the psionics altogether just use the name. I doubt Wizards would have an issue with that its like coming out with a Knight class, the name is generic, as long as your not coping the game mechanics/fluff.

Whew! This is a very information dense post! As an informed citizen, allow me to share what information we civilians have until a Fully-Licensed Paizo Professional can come along.

1) No Gem Dragons. They are not classic Dragons.
2) The problem with Gem Dragons is that while Gems are public domain, and Dragons are public domain, very few sources outside of D&D have combined the two. As you put your finger on, adding psionics turns them directly from "Ruby Dragons" to "Lawsuit Dragons". But if you don't add psionics, what makes 'em unique enough to bother with?
3) Asian dragons (Lungs) are also not classic, in terms of D&D classical, although they are classics in terms of mythology. We almost certainly won't be seeing Asian Dragons until Pathfinder details the "East of Iran" parts of "Asia" for their setting, providing them an excuse for "generic" Asian stuff like Lungs.

So I take it no Gem dragons? I was thinking that maybe Pathfinder might do something completly differnt with the Gem Dragons even though they aren't OGL the names might still be used. Maybe make them a Lawful or Chaotic group instead of neutral. Or make them Asia type of dragons? Which I kinda think they should have been in the first place. Heck get rid of the psionics altogether just use the name. I doubt Wizards would have an issue with that its like coming out with a Knight class, the name is generic, as long as your not coping the game mechanics/fluff.

Basically: What Cappa said.

Gem dragons aren't open, so we're going to be avoiding that category, I suspect. The Tian Xia dragons we've already mentioned are not gem-related, and since there's a LOT of real-world myth to draw upon for the Asian-themed dragons, we'll be using that to build them when we get to them.

In any case, this book was intended to be about the 10 classic dragons; it doesn't have the name "classic" in the title, but it's very much in the same tradition as "Classic Monsters Revisited," "Dungeon Denizins Revisited," and "Classic Horrors Revisited."

My wife loves the dragons. Where can she get more? I'm trying to avoid having to get the 4E Draconomicons...

That's fine with me. We have shaitans now for all our gem-lovin' needs.

How Golorion specific is this? I loved classic monster revisited, and changed my home versions of those monster to the way they are portrayed in the book (go goblins). Does Dragons have the same flexibility, or is it very world specific?

How Golorion specific is this? I loved classic monster revisited, and changed my home versions of those monster to the way they are portrayed in the book (go goblins). Does Dragons have the same flexibility, or is it very world specific?

Each dragon has approximately one column of information specifically about that color on Golarian, and the statted up dragon is Golarian specific. Otherwise the information is general enough to plunk into any campaign world :)

Each dragon has approximately one column of information specifically about that color on Golarian, and the statted up dragon is Golarian specific. Otherwise the information is general enough to plunk into any campaign world :)

Awesome. Thank you!

Whew! This is a very information dense post! As an informed citizen, allow me to share what information we civilians have until a Fully-Licensed Paizo Professional can come along.

1) No Gem Dragons. They are not classic Dragons.
2) The problem with Gem Dragons is that while Gems are public domain, and Dragons are public domain, very few sources outside of D&D have combined the two. As you put your finger on, adding psionics turns them directly from "Ruby Dragons" to "Lawsuit Dragons". But if you don't add psionics, what makes 'em unique enough to bother with?
3) Asian dragons (Lungs) are also not classic, in terms of D&D classical, although they are classics in terms of mythology. We almost certainly won't be seeing Asian Dragons until Pathfinder details the "East of Iran" parts of "Asia" for their setting, providing them an excuse for "generic" Asian stuff like Lungs.

Whats the point? Whats the Point? Because the name is cool! That's the point. Cool goes a long way, I mean if I had my way Paizo would make atomic age monsters from aisa like......Rodan, ha bet you though I was going to say Godzilla didn't you? Ohh damn I just did say his name. I gotta cut back on the Jolt's. Were was I? Oh yeah Asia.

Honestly I get why they don't want to touch the Gems, Even though I alwasy thought that while Good and Evil was repersented, and neturals I suppose, I alwasy felt that Law and Choas were missing proper respect. Asia dragons also lacked something, and I always wanted to redo them to fill the law and choas nich, espically since I alwasy saw Asian myth more focused with those concepts then with Western Good and Evil. Gems might fill the Law side and maybe Elemental Dragons filling the choas one. I know about he heavy metal dragons, but I never liked the fluff for them. Paizo could do something like this, I mean other 3pp have redone Tiamt (yeah I know its part of mythology but its also very "DnD") heck even Paizo mentioned the old hag in RotRL.

In either case I do love all things dragons and this book is on my gotta get it list, I was just hoping.

TTFN DRE

PS You know maybe Paizo could get the rights for a Godzilla RPG, I can just see it now, play an atomic monster destroy Japan, gain XP and then...........ummm.........go take out New York, yeah yeah that'd be cool.

Gem dragons aren't open, so we're going to be avoiding that category, I suspect.

Suspect? Suspect? James is there something we should all know here?

DRE

PS You know maybe Paizo could get the rights for a Godzilla RPG, I can just see it now, play an atomic monster destroy Japan

You do have Dragon #289, right? Formerly available here in the Paizo Store, but now only available via piracy and used book stores thanks to Wizards.

You do have Dragon #289, right? Formerly available here in the Paizo Store, but now only available via piracy and used book stores thanks to Wizards.

Dragon 289, available Right Here for sale on Paizo.com.

Dragon and Dungeon products are still available for sale under a different license with WOTC.

And yes, that's a great article on Kaiju in it (which *seriously* needs to be added to the issue description!)

Great "re-alignment" of the classic dragons on new lines. Sadly not as good as the goblinoid races revisited sourcebook, though. The way goblins were rethought is simply hilarious, if somewhat morbid.

Dragon 289, available Right Here for sale on Paizo.com.

Dragon and Dungeon products are still available for sale under a different license with WOTC.

Holy cow! That's a good thing!

And yes, that's a great article on Kaiju in it (which *seriously* needs to be added to the issue description!)

The Kaiju article was also written by a certain somebody who happens to be the Editor in Chief for Pathfinder. :P

Gem dragons aren't open, so we're going to be avoiding that category, I suspect. The Tian Xia dragons we've already mentioned are not gem-related, and since there's a LOT of real-world myth to draw upon for the Asian-themed dragons, we'll be using that to build them when we get to them.

But when (not if!) you do psionics, and you're going to consider draconic paragons of psionics, you can create psionic dragons, just not named after gems.

But when (not if!) you do psionics, and you're going to consider draconic paragons of psionics, you can create psionic dragons, just not named after gems.

Well, to be honest, given the natures of dragons on Golarion, I can just see Greens and Bronzes taking levels of Psion and calling it a day.

Rechan wrote:

I really hope this does offer a new spin on some dragon types. Something a little more intriguing than "Whites = Dum + Cold", or at least some different ways to spice ye olde dragon color up.

Well, actually, white dragons haven't been "dumb" for a while now. They aren't nearly as smart as other dragon types, but at their adult state, they are as intelligent as an average human.

And when the white dragons figure out that they've been insulted by Flammenwerfer the Terrible, they just invite him back for a meeting in that ice cavern where remorhaz swarms breed, and then wait outside with their allied pack of winter wolves... Vulnerabilities affect the big reds too!

How close is this to being out of print? I'd really prefer to just have the Pathfinder compatible version of this book.

How close is this to being out of print? I'd really prefer to just have the Pathfinder compatible version of this book.

It's not even a year old... we have tons. And there's no guarantee that we'll ever update it in the same form anyway.

It's very light on mechanics, though, apart from the sample dragons... and you'll find similar enough samples in Pathfinder RPG form in the Bestiary.

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:

How close is this to being out of print? I'd really prefer to just have the Pathfinder compatible version of this book.

It's not even a year old... we have tons. And there's no guarantee that we'll ever update it in the same form anyway.

It's very light on mechanics, though, apart from the sample dragons... and you'll find similar enough samples in Pathfinder RPG form in the Bestiary.

Could you give a percentage on how much is mechanics? I really looking to revamp dragons for my Pathfinder homebrew (making them more an evolutionary step for [monstrous] humanoids) and am curious about this.

Could you give a percentage on how much is mechanics? I really looking to revamp dragons for my Pathfinder homebrew (making them more an evolutionary step for [monstrous] humanoids) and am curious about this.

Each of the 10 dragons gets a 6 page chapter. One of those pages has a sample stat block and maybe a new dragon feat. The rest of the book is rules-free. Which means the book works VERY well for whatever rules system you favor... but probably isn't the best choice if you're looking for a lot of new rules mechanics.

There's a few feats, all of which work perfectly fine in Pathfinder, and a bunch of (less-than-perfectly-edited) 3.5 stat blocks. The rest is fluff. Only 10-15% or so of the articles are the stat blocks, the rest of it works fine in any OGL-based game.

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:

Could you give a percentage on how much is mechanics? I really looking to revamp dragons for my Pathfinder homebrew (making them more an evolutionary step for [monstrous] humanoids) and am curious about this.

Each of the 10 dragons gets a 6 page chapter. One of those pages has a sample stat block and maybe a new dragon feat. The rest of the book is rules-free. Which means the book works VERY well for whatever rules system you favor... but probably isn't the best choice if you're looking for a lot of new rules mechanics.

Thanks for the info James. On the flip side could you recommend a crunchy D20 Dragons book?

Thanks for the info James. On the flip side could you recommend a crunchy D20 Dragons book?

Draconomicon?

James Jacobs wrote:

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:

Could you give a percentage on how much is mechanics? I really looking to revamp dragons for my Pathfinder homebrew (making them more an evolutionary step for [monstrous] humanoids) and am curious about this.

Each of the 10 dragons gets a 6 page chapter. One of those pages has a sample stat block and maybe a new dragon feat. The rest of the book is rules-free. Which means the book works VERY well for whatever rules system you favor... but probably isn't the best choice if you're looking for a lot of new rules mechanics.

Thanks for the info James. On the flip side could you recommend a crunchy D20 Dragons book?

Best d20 Dragons book as far as crunch goes is probably WotC's 3rd edition Draconomicon. A few questionable spells and feats and stuff in there that could unbalance your game if you aren't careful, but overall a pretty solid book.

Best d20 Dragons book as far as crunch goes is probably WotC's 3rd edition Draconomicon. A few questionable spells and feats and stuff in there that could unbalance your game if you aren't careful, but overall a pretty solid book.

Are there any specific spells/feats/other stuff in the 3e Draconomicon that you would advise against using?