The Genie Blood trait says that with the air trait you gain a bonus vs. cold and for water you gain a bonus vs. electricity. This is the opposite of everything in the beta. Is this intentional?
Yes. Bit of a story behind that.
After the 3.0 core books came out, I wrote part of Magic of Faerun, in which I defined air = cold and water = electricity. See, I have a degree in chemistry, and I understand that water conducts electricity much better than air, and that water isn't inherently cold (in fact, it's much better at holding heat than air). Except at around the same time, the core D&D folks were writing another book that defined air = electricity ("because lightning comes from the air") and water = cold ("because ice is cold and ice is water"), and furthermore "fire is the opposite of water, so cold should be the energy for water so it can oppose fire." Needless to say, Little Forgotten Realms Sean was overruled by We Don't Have a Science Background Core People.But I am stubborn, and my idea for the energy rules has enigmatically popped up now and then in products I've worked on. Feel free to change it to match the Beta, as the Beta's version is what's going to be in the PFRPG.
Also, the Madu is the equivalent of a spiked shield with a few exceptions, but is listed as having no armor/shield bonus and a max dex bonus of +1. the column headers are also in the reverse order of the standard equipment chart. Please tell me it's supposed to be +1 shield bonus and no max dex!
You are correct, the column headers are swapped.
Hmm. I find myself wanting to encourage SKR's stubborn streak.
Can't.Withstand.Peer.Pressure...
Sean, you really should be more stubborn!
Yes. Bit of a story behind that.
After the 3.0 core books came out, I wrote part of Magic of Faerun, in which I defined air = cold and water = electricity. See, I have a degree in chemistry, and I understand that water conducts electricity much better than air, and that water isn't inherently cold (in fact, it's much better at holding heat than air). Except at around the same time, the core D&D folks were writing another book that defined air = electricity ("because lightning comes from the air") and water = cold ("because ice is cold and ice is water"), and furthermore "fire is the opposite of water, so cold should be the energy for water so it can oppose fire." Needless to say, Little Forgotten Realms Sean was overruled by We Don't Have a Science Background Core People.But I am stubborn, and my idea for the energy rules has enigmatically popped up now and then in products I've worked on. Feel free to change it to match the Beta, as the Beta's version is what's going to be in the PFRPG.
And this is why I generally oppose creating Element/Energy equivilencies in general (except Fire<->Fire). No matter what you do, the logic is strained.
Fire is obvious.Air makes equal sense as cold or electricity (or even Sonic!)
Water gravitates toward cold due to opposition to Fire, but electricity kinda works too.
And no matter what you do, it seems like Earth gets Acid, which doesn't make any bloody sense at all.
There are 4 elements and 5 energy types. Trying to match them up is doomed to fail.
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There are 4 elements and 5 energy types. Trying to match them up is doomed to fail.
Hmm. Then why try matching them up at all? Why not keep them separated? Wouldn't it make more sense to make class features/abilities focused on elementals actually pertain to their elements? ie. a character focused on the element of air gains abilities/spells/features that pertain to air/wind; a character focused on the element of earth gains features that pertain to earth/rocks? And have separate abilities/features for those who wish to focus on an energy type? Sure, fire wouldn't seem to change, fire is fire. But, there'd also be cold, acid, electricity, and sonic.
Trying to match them up is doomed to fail.
Definitely true if you go for 1-1 balance. But what if we threw balance to the wind in favor of flavor/in-storyworld logic? What might come out of SKR's brain (or, already has, unbeknownest to me.)
DOPE! Beards-ley!!!!
Earth = acid actually sorta makes sense, given that acids and bases are equivalent effects in the game, and earth = rock = minerals = salts = dissolved by acids or turns into bases or acids turn into this when neutralized.
But yes, the categorizations of all of them are sort of ambiguous.
given that acids and bases are equivalent effects in the game
I realize this is true, but it makes me want to rant about it being 'Corrosive damage' instead. (Similar to how Lightning Damage became Electrical damage.)
Yes. :)
Does anybody else feel teased? Sean, I was waiting for you to unveil your whole solution and its rationale!
Does anybody else feel teased? Sean, I was waiting for you to unveil your whole solution and its rationale!
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Painful groan.
I'm sure I've deserved that from some other thread.
OK, I hope I just fixed the credit card issue for this new Adventure Path. I also hope when my copy of Legacy of Fire #1 is shipped there will be a copy of this puppy along with it. I also may need to fix things so I can get, at least retroactively the last module for the last AP. Drow don't impress me but I was enjoying the bestiaries.
Hmm. Then why try matching them up at all? Why not keep them separated? Wouldn't it make more sense to make class features/abilities focused on elementals actually pertain to their elements? ie. a character focused on the element of air gains abilities/spells/features that pertain to air/wind; a character focused on the element of earth gains features that pertain to earth/rocks? And have separate abilities/features for those who wish to focus on an energy type? Sure, fire wouldn't seem to change, fire is fire. But, there'd also be cold, acid, electricity, and sonic.
There are 4 elements and 5 energy types. Trying to match them up is doomed to fail.
Have to agree with you, never understood defining these things that way. I remeber when I first started 3.0/DnD the DM asked what I wanted to play, I said an Elementalist, but since they aren't here I'll go Sorcerer. He told me to go Wizard instead and just pick the element I wanted, I went with Air, but by the time I was 5th level I just calling my self ED the Cold Elementalist. The energy types and subtypes are wayy to cross dependent. Elements should be kept seperate from energy types, or to a degree a spell user can pick energy types for the element. Such as a Wind blast spell can do cold, sonic or heat (hot air). Keep them seperate. As for Fire add a heat energy type.
As to adding real world science to it, thats okay as when reasoning things out for yourself, but that may not be the way people in fantasy settings would think. Sure water can conduct electracity better then air, but not many people see lighting going from point A to point B underwater, but the do see lighting strikes.
In Either case however much I think they should be seperate, energy and elements in DnD are so crisscrossed tied together that the system would have to be massively overhauled.
TTFN Dre
Just checking, but is a copy of the Players Guide still being included with the subscriptions or did I miss something. Although I have this permeating thought that I saw something that it was shipping with #20.
Hi Andrew,
The Player's Guide is no longer being included for free with the beginning of the APs so get a sub to the Companion right away.
Question about the madu:
The intro to the exotic arms section says that all the weapons listed require an Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use effectively. Then under the madu, it says that anyone proficient in shields can use a madu as a spiked light shield.
Which is it? Or can I use it as a spiked light shield with a shield proficiency but only get the fighting defensively and Combat Expertise benefits by taking an exotic weapon proficiency?
Or can I use it as a spiked light shield with a shield proficiency but only get the fighting defensively and Combat Expertise benefits by taking an exotic weapon proficiency?
This.
continuing the issue of element types and their energy pairings, you could attempt to break it down to options for characters maybe give them two energy types that can correspond to that element.
For instance Air can choose between electricity and cold damage.
Water from cold and acid since acid is a liquid.
Fire of course has fire (this is where it starts to get tricky)and electricity. Who here has seen Avatar?
And finally Earth, the most irritating one, obviously we'll let it keep acid. We could gun for fire with the whole molten magma thing and just thematically and stylishly have those effects take a more lava based appearance. Or we could be entirely goofy and toss sonic damage to the Earth type, earthquakes operate as a kind of wavish type thing and sound travels in waves.
But in support of Sean K. Reynolds and his argument as cold being in the domain of the Air type I would like to reference the Qorrashi genie from an article written by James Wyatt. The Qorrashi are cold and ice based genies that are distant relatives of the Djinn. Since I like to spin things to suit my needs obviously since this doesn't even refer to Water or the Marids, the energy type of Cold falls under air. It's an older article it looks like but pretty sure if you google it or find the planescape website (through google) and search for Qorrashi there something should pop up. I stand in support of the movement against cold energy belonging to the element of water.
big post sorry :'(
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Very, very late to this dance, but...
I read and understand the earlier explanations about charging for Player's Guides, but I'd like to see some sort of freebie (one pager?) that that I could offer players I've asked to join my game. I hate spending other people's money for them.
If for no other reason than to let the non-Paizo unwashed masses in on the fact that Paizo production values are awesome.
/Sentence fragments. Frustrate. Me.
Chief Technical Officer
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Very, very late to this dance, but...
I read and understand the earlier explanations about charging for Player's Guides, but I'd like to see some sort of freebie (one pager?) that that I could offer players I've asked to join my game. I hate spending other people's money for them.
If for no other reason than to let the non-Paizo unwashed masses in on the fact that Paizo production values are awesome.
/Sentence fragments. Frustrate. Me.
You may want to have a look at this thread about our plans for future AP Player's Guides (especially James Jacobs' second post).