Wielding a Two Handed Weapon in One Hand


Rules Questions

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Atarlost wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Not if the weapon is not on your person when you Enlarge.
All right, is there something somewhere not in the spell description I'm missing? "All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell." It doesn't say anywhere "when this spell is cast" or anything. Since the spell has duration 1 min./level (D), that means it is a continuous magical effect, not an instantaneous one.

Interesting interpretation. You are suggesting that for the duration of the spell, anything the enlarged person picks up is enlarged?

You know enlarge can be made permanent with permanency right? Your interpretation would have dramatic implications in this regard.

It may be better than the alternative, which is that any weapon or armor the permanently enlarged person owns is useless because it will shrink the moment they set it down.

I actually used that to good effect in the last session I ran - I had built a tripping Orc bodyguard, and enlarged him. He was wielding a heavy flail, which is a 2H weapon. The oracle's summoned T-Rex grabbed him. What does he do now, since he can't attack and can't break free?

The solution I came up with was A) Trip the T-Rex. While in it's mouth. B) Now that you're on the ground, set down the flail, and immediately pick it back up (this was hand-waved a bit to not take an action). Now you're large and holding a medium heavy flail, which you can wield one-handed at a -2 penalty. C) Beat up the T-Rex.

The orc failed at step C. But it was cool.


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Matt Beatty wrote:

I think the appropriate way to think about enlarge person is that at the time of casting the spell has an effect. That effect at the time of casting last so many rounds. New things therefor do not get enlarged as they were not in the target of the spell when cast.

That's my interpretation too. This thread is the first time I realized that it's not the only interpretation.

The other interpretation seems valid, but I think it would also be prone to abuse, so I'll be sticking with my original interpretation I think.


Bobson wrote:
War_Piglet wrote:
DEFCON.Clown wrote:
What is the penalty for wielding a two handed weapon in one hand? The best I can figure is -2 since a Two Handed Weapon is one size category larger then a typical one handed weapon.

Never say no, assign difficulty.

What difficulty would you assign to a reduce personed halfling (Tiny) picking up a Titan's hammer (colossal-sized 2H weapon) and smashing something with it?

That would be fun, but, off the top of my head, I would take the weight of the hammer multiply it by the size of the hammer then have the tiny person make a strength check with a DC of the result, or something outrageous. And in the event that the person actually makes the roll, yeah right, I would start adding in other difficulties, like how are you maintaining any kind of control utilizing more strength checks, dex checks and some int checks, how smart an idea is it to actually attempt to pick that thing up. Not to mention a few attack rolls to see if while flailing around trying to do anything while looking dumb, the person might actually hit someone with the thing, including companions,and when they drop it, how much damage they take when it lands on them. Not to mention the internal organ or muscle damage. :D


OK, so I have a Large character, I want him to wield a Medium Jovar made of Blue Ice

Jovar: 2 handed Weapon
Blue Ice: Slashing weapons made of blue ice have a +1 enhancement
bonus on damage. Items made out of blue ice weigh half as much as normal.

Does this mean that I could wield it as a light weapon as it would be
a) one size catagory smaller to shift two handed to one handed
b) light as it weighs half as much
???
and what penalties would this incur?
is it a -2 for it being one size smaller?


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Barra Jor wrote:

OK, so I have a Large character, I want him to wield a Medium Jovar made of Blue Ice

Jovar: 2 handed Weapon
Blue Ice: Slashing weapons made of blue ice have a +1 enhancement
bonus on damage. Items made out of blue ice weigh half as much as normal.

Does this mean that I could wield it as a light weapon as it would be
a) one size catagory smaller to shift two handed to one handed
b) light as it weighs half as much
???
and what penalties would this incur?
is it a -2 for it being one size smaller?

A is correct. A medium sized two handed weapon is treated as a one handed weapon for large creatures. There would be a -2 penalty on the attack rolls for using an inappropriately sized weapon.

B is not correct. A weapons designation (light, one-handed, two-handed) has nothing to do with its weight.


Jeraa wrote:
Barra Jor wrote:

OK, so I have a Large character, I want him to wield a Medium Jovar made of Blue Ice

Jovar: 2 handed Weapon
Blue Ice: Slashing weapons made of blue ice have a +1 enhancement
bonus on damage. Items made out of blue ice weigh half as much as normal.

Does this mean that I could wield it as a light weapon as it would be
a) one size catagory smaller to shift two handed to one handed
b) light as it weighs half as much
???
and what penalties would this incur?
is it a -2 for it being one size smaller?

A is correct. A medium sized two handed weapon is treated as a one handed weapon for large creatures. There would be a -2 penalty on the attack rolls for using an inappropriately sized weapon.

B is not correct. A weapons designation (light, one-handed, two-handed) has nothing to do with its weight.

Ok then, so I can wield it one handed, but no finessing it, awesome

Thank You Jeraa


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Barra Jor wrote:
Ok then, so I can wield it one handed, but no finessing it, awesome

You couldn't finesse it anyway.

Weapon Finesse: "With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category..."

Sovereign Court

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I am surprised that there has been no mention of the Titan Mauler, barbarian archetype, with its Jotungrip.

thanks,

Kodger


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Kodger wrote:
I am surprised that there has been no mention of the Titan Mauler, barbarian archetype, with its Jotungrip.

Most of the thread was written before that book was released.

Also, Jotungrip only applies to appropriately sized weapons, which is not what most people in these threads want to use.


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Jiggy wrote:
Bobson wrote:
What difficulty would you assign to a reduce personed halfling (Tiny) picking up a Titan's hammer (colossal-sized 2H weapon) and smashing something with it?
DC 50 strength check to pick it up, and failure results in hurting yourself, to the tune of 1d4 STR and DEX damage plus another 1d4 for every 5 by which you fail. ;)

But imagine if he manages the roll!

"Hey, John. Tell me if I'm going crazy."

"What are you on about, now?"

"I just saw a halfling run by carrying a Titan's hammer, chasing an orc. Little blighter was laughing."

<both men think for a moment, then pour out their respective ale mugs.>

"I think I'ma lay off the ale for a while."

"Good idea."

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

On another note: I find it amazing how almost everyone is completely focused on finding ways to make this NOT work, and how few people are trying to help. D&D IS still for HAVING FUN, right?


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concerro wrote:
DEFCON.Clown wrote:
What is the penalty for wielding a two handed weapon in one hand? The best I can figure is -2 since a Two Handed Weapon is one size category larger then a typical one handed weapon.
It can't be done.

it can be done...just be 2nd lvl barbarian Titan Mauler arechetype with

Jotungrip (Ex)

At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like.

This ability replaces uncanny dodge.


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Ok so I just want to point out that in 3.5 there was a feat called monkey grip in one of the complete books, probably warrior, that allowed you to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand with a -2 penalty. 3.5 is extremely limiting so the fact that 3.5 allowed it to happen surprises me that pathfinder hasn't come up with a feat for it. Perhaps this would unbalance the game when including pathfinders other modifications to the feat selection. Anyways my point is that it can be done. I have been in real life fights where I have used something that I could easily wield in two hands but used it only in one hand by pressing the weapon against my hip and swinging it with my hand. Effectively my hand is applying force to the weapon to force it to go a direction and my body is preventing the bottom part of the weapon from moving with the top part. I could easily see this being applied to a big spear or axe. In some games you have to have a certain strength score in order to do it and still take some sort of penalty. My point is realistically it can be done but pathfinder has created no window for this to happen. Now weapons that are made for giants are a different story as those things might be the size of a person and therefore just too unwieldy.

Well so barbarians can do it. So does that mean I am a barbarian in real life?


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The weapons that can be weilded easily in two hands, but also in one hand are the one-handed weapons in pathfinder. A weapon so large that it takes two hands to wield effectively in combat against a skilled opponent would be very hard or impossible to use effectively with one hand. I think that is what the denial represents.

PS:Personally I did not mind Monkey Grip since it was basically a trap feat most of the time anyway. I also wish Oversized two-weapon fighting was an feat. I know they can't use the feat name, but right now Pathfinder's version of those requires archetypes.


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It's all about the technique and the application of physics upon a weapon. Anyone who trains to do it and knows how should be able to do it effectively. There are all kinds of things humans can do that people wouldn't expect. Truth is we are going off of theories. I have used a weapon in this fashion when I was younger against people trying to steal my bike and was successful. I am and always have been a strong individual though so I don't think anyone could just pick up and do this and in reality it would probably be better to just dual wield two dwarven waraxes than two great axes anyways but I would like the mental image.


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daltonlikesdaisies wrote:
It's all about the technique and the application of physics upon a weapon. Anyone who trains to do it and knows how should be able to do it effectively. There are all kinds of things humans can do that people wouldn't expect. Truth is we are going off of theories. I have used a weapon in this fashion when I was younger against people trying to steal my bike and was successful. I am and always have been a strong individual though so I don't think anyone could just pick up and do this and in reality it would probably be better to just dual wield two dwarven waraxes than two great axes anyways but I would like the mental image.

Do you really think it would work against someone trained in combat? I can use a knife against most people as an example, but if someone has been trained to disarm other people I might find myself without a weapon. That was why I mentioned combat.


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150gp is ok, and every build on the boards uses traits so using them here will help, and if you don't use them then you will have more people asking why you did not use them.

In short it is better to use them.


What you just said there is pointless, anyone can be trained to null any other combat effect. The whole martial arts system in South America that is combined with dance for example is completely nulled by waiting until they get tired and then going all out on them. Wearing armor is nulled by sundering it. Having feet is nulled by cutting them off and so on so forth. Anyone can be trained to null a specific effect and in DnD it all comes down to what the dice say.


Also I do really think that would be really effective against someone trained in combat because you would be able to do a lot of damage. Weaknesses can be easily spotted such as limited variability of how to swing it and slow. Guess what else has those problems though? A greatsword.


Also it would have a decent reach.


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My point was me(noncombat trained) can't be expected to get the same results as someone who is trained with a weapon. By the same logic the skill of your opponent has a great influence on if your theoretical hip technique will be successful. I don't know much about sword fighting so I can't say it won't work. I was just saying you have to consider the situation.


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Which is why there is an archetype or feat. You can't expect a noncombat trained person to pick up two weapons and be good with them. You would have to train with them and thus in the DnD world granting you the two-weapon fighting feat if you have the dex to do it that is. Monkey Grip or Jotungrip are the same concept. I am a physically powerful person so whenever I do it I can do it effectively because I can still swing the weapon using this technique and gain even more damage on my attack. Think of it as applying power-attack. Regardless with my strength I can still use it in other ways.


Also a lvl 5 fighter is going to destroy a lvl 5 commoner. Apply you as the commoner and a soldier as the fighter. What you said there is a matter of levels and/or classes really.


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I think the problem is also that my mental image of what you are trying to explain is not what you are actually doing. I tried to find a youtube video of what was in my head, but I can't find anything.

In any event my lack of real life weapon(swords, not guns) knowledge will make me go back to the actual game mechanics, which we both agree should exist.


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Agree'd


Hey everyone. I'd like an answer to this. I made a lvl 3 Dwarven Soul Forger (Magus) with a two-handed weapon (a longhammer). Now, the Spell Combat feat of the Magus says I must have one hand free to be able to cast spells. Also, Spellstrike says I can cast touch spells as part of a melee attack. Does that mean that I have to use Spell Combat first to deliver a touch spell with my longhammer, or not? How does this work?


qgloaf wrote:
Hey everyone. I'd like an answer to this. I made a lvl 3 Dwarven Soul Forger (Magus) with a two-handed weapon (a longhammer). Now, the Spell Combat feat of the Magus says I must have one hand free to be able to cast spells. Also, Spellstrike says I can cast touch spells as part of a melee attack. Does that mean that I have to use Spell Combat first to deliver a touch spell with my longhammer, or not? How does this work?

For spell combat, it states you use it with a light or one-handed weapon and that it is treated much like two-weapon fighting. Essentially, your off-hand "weapon" is you casting a spell. So at level 1, one could use a melee attack and shocking grasp (both at a -2 penalty to attack).

For spellstrike, you are using your standard action to cast the spell. The ability replaces the free melee touch attack with free melee attack with your weapon.

You do not have to use spell combat to utilize spellstrike, only the latter.

Now what I believe has you confused is doing a more "complex" maneuver, utilizing both of those abilities, which I see no problem with. It's essentially two-weapon fighting with a spell attached to one of the attacks.

Hope this helped.


Oh, and to the topic of the wielding a two handed weapon in one hand. Tieflings have an alternative racial trait that allows them to replace their spell-like ability with "oversized limbs: you can wield large weapons at no penalty."

With that, utilize two "large" longswords. Boosts the damage from 1d8 to 2d6, 19-20/x2 crit. Congrats, you're effectively holding two greatswords in each hand, each with a -4 to attack if you have two-weapon fighting.


Zilkaiden wrote:

Oh, and to the topic of the wielding a two handed weapon in one hand. Tieflings have an alternative racial trait that allows them to replace their spell-like ability with "oversized limbs: you can wield large weapons at no penalty."

With that, utilize two "large" longswords. Boosts the damage from 1d8 to 2d6, 19-20/x2 crit. Congrats, you're effectively holding two greatswords in each hand, each with a -4 to attack if you have two-weapon fighting.

Again, if I didn't mention this before, two sawtooth sabres are suggested. It costs a feat, but grants an effective +2 to hit when using longswords for TWF.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Buddah668 wrote:
John Templeton wrote:
Mechanically it might be a no no but honestly I think you're stepping away from the Spirit of the Rules and focuing on the Letter of the Rules.

Exactly.

Mechanically speaking, I'd suspect someone is trying min/max damage with a two weapon fighter, so using the biggest hardest hitting sword fits the bill. My approach would be allow it with the large penalties, making it inefficient over the more conventional two weapon types. Still if the rolls favor the player, they'll have a great story to tell later. A -6 (-2 for the two handed primary, -4 for improvised) to hit with the primary hand is a hefty penalty to overcome, even with magic. I'd even look at tacking on an additional penalty to the secondary weapons attack rolls.

I'd also allow large creatures to wield the great sword much like a bastard sword. It makes for an interesting monster as a boss. So yes I've dealt with the main subject before.

From a role play stand point. What makes a better improvised weapon tale? Charging and ogre chieftain with a Great Sword in one hand and some other hefty weapon in the other. Or two weapon rending the barkeep in a tavern brawl with a pair of bar stools.

My interest is im building a magus with magus from crono trigger as inspiration...the obvious weapon is the scythe but magus requires a one hand free. and in my opinion if you spent all your time fighting with only that weapon youd train yourself to use it one handed at some point. from a mechanical rules pov its no but from a story pov (not trying to min/max) I believe you should be able to do it if you take weapon focus with the scythe. but its just me


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Doomed Hero wrote:
concerro wrote:


It can't be done.
*cough cough* Bastard Sword *cough cough*

*cough cough* Katana *cough cough*


MagnusPrime wrote:
Buddah668 wrote:
John Templeton wrote:
Mechanically it might be a no no but honestly I think you're stepping away from the Spirit of the Rules and focuing on the Letter of the Rules.

Exactly.

Mechanically speaking, I'd suspect someone is trying min/max damage with a two weapon fighter, so using the biggest hardest hitting sword fits the bill. My approach would be allow it with the large penalties, making it inefficient over the more conventional two weapon types. Still if the rolls favor the player, they'll have a great story to tell later. A -6 (-2 for the two handed primary, -4 for improvised) to hit with the primary hand is a hefty penalty to overcome, even with magic. I'd even look at tacking on an additional penalty to the secondary weapons attack rolls.

I'd also allow large creatures to wield the great sword much like a bastard sword. It makes for an interesting monster as a boss. So yes I've dealt with the main subject before.

From a role play stand point. What makes a better improvised weapon tale? Charging and ogre chieftain with a Great Sword in one hand and some other hefty weapon in the other. Or two weapon rending the barkeep in a tavern brawl with a pair of bar stools.

My interest is im building a magus with magus from crono trigger as inspiration...the obvious weapon is the scythe but magus requires a one hand free. and in my opinion if you spent all your time fighting with only that weapon youd train yourself to use it one handed at some point. from a mechanical rules pov its no but from a story pov (not trying to min/max) I believe you should be able to do it if you take weapon focus with the scythe. but its just me

Ugh have you looked at a picture of a scythe? That they are even used as normal weapons 2 handed isn't pushing things.

Focusing your training one one weapon is meaningless with regards to handedness.

Grand Lodge

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Geez.

This thread has a habit of dying, then being necro'd.


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Mojorat wrote:
Ugh have you looked at a picture of a scythe? That they are even used as normal weapons 2 handed isn't pushing things.

Farmer's Scythe

War Scythe

How to properly fight with a scythe


Mmm i would houserule this question as this:

you can, if u need wield a 2h weapon in one hand, at -4 attack penalty and a full round action to do the attack, and, you provoke AoO.
if u take the Improvised weapon feat, you can reduce the attack penalty at -2 and is no longer a fra, it becomes standard.

also u need 17 in str to can perform this action.
-just for trolling


I would argue that it's not allowed. Paizo clearly doesn't want regular characters using two handed weapons in one hand. Otherwise, why would they give specific archypes, like the titan mauler, abilities like jotungrip, if they intended everyone the abilty to use two handed weapons in one hand

Sczarni

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The FAQ makes it seem plausible to do use a 2-H weapon in 1 hand...

Spoiler:
Weapons, Two-Handed in One Hand: When a feat or other special ability says to treat a weapon that is normally wielded in two hands as a one handed weapon, does it get treated as one or two handed weapon for the purposes of how to apply the Strength modifier or the Power Attack feat?

If you're wielding it in one hand (even if it is normally a two-handed weapon), treat it as a one-handed weapon for the purpose of how much Strength to apply, the Power Attack damage bonus, and so on.

....but only through feats or other special ability...


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If it is said to treat it as a one-handed weapon then it is treated like that in all ways, but if it says you can wield it in one hand, but not treated as a one handed weapon then the str multiplier is still 1.5.

There is no ruling for power attack, but I would go by actual use.<---Not a rule just how I would do it.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I should also be mentioned you can hold a two-handed sword in one hand to get a free hand, you just won't be able to use it while your holding it in this way. aka, you CAN cast spells and wield a two-hand sword, but not at the same time.


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I'm surprised nobody brought up the Titan Mauler's level 2 ability (Jotungrip).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---b arbarian-archetypes/titan-mauler

So...

Barbarian (Titan Mauler): Level 2, any
Fighter (Phalanx Fighter): Level 3, Polearm
Mounted: Lance
Bastard Sword/Dwarven Axe: with proficiency. but technically, they're 1-handed weapons anyway.

Plus, you can use a small sized 2-hander in 1 hand (-2 penalty).


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reyyvin wrote:

I'm surprised nobody brought up the Titan Mauler's level 2 ability (Jotungrip).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---b arbarian-archetypes/titan-mauler

So...

Barbarian (Titan Mauler): Level 2, any
Fighter (Phalanx Fighter): Level 3, Polearm
Mounted: Lance
Bastard Sword/Dwarven Axe: with proficiency. but technically, they're 1-handed weapons anyway.

Plus, you can use a small sized 2-hander in 1 hand (-2 penalty).

It was mentioned on the first page.


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wraithstrike wrote:


It was mentioned on the first page.

Thats what I get for posting when half asleep


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Only a minor necro'ing, looking at this thread's history ;) but check this out.

Varisia, Birthplace of Legends wrote:

Thunder and Fang:

Benefit: You can use an earth breaker as though it were
a one-handed weapon. When using an earth breaker in one
hand and a klar in your off hand, you retain the shield bonus
your klar grants to your Armor Class even when you use it to
attack. Treat your klar as a light weapon for the purposes of
determining your two-weapon fighting penalty.

Normal: An earth breaker is a two-handed weapon,
preventing the use of a klar in one hand without imposing
penalties for using the earth breaker one-handed. A klar
can be used either as a one-handed weapon or a shield; it
does not grant a bonus to AC during rounds in which it
is used as a weapon.

Perhaps, since this is a much later and smaller book it was just sloppy writing, but...

Quote:

An earth breaker is normally a two-handed weapon,

preventing the use of a klar in one hand without imposing
penalties for using the earth breaker one-handed.

Even for RAW fans, this seems to imply that, without this feat, the earth breaker's a two-handed weapon but you can use it, in combat, one-handed, by taking penalties.

My next thought is, as far as a Jotungrip oversized-limb tiefling goes, unless there's a listed definition for the term "appropriately sized," since such a tiefling can wield Large weapons without penalty they are appropriately sized... :D go monkey go monkey go!

Liberty's Edge

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Caidence277 wrote:

Perhaps, since this is a much later and smaller book it was just sloppy writing, but...

Quote:

An earth breaker is normally a two-handed weapon,

preventing the use of a klar in one hand without imposing
penalties for using the earth breaker one-handed.

Even for RAW fans, this seems to imply that, without this feat, the earth breaker's a two-handed weapon but you can use it, in combat, one-handed, by taking penalties.

Interesting find. It is certainly worth starting its own FAQ thread for that. My guess is that it's probably an error.


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HangarFlying wrote:
Caidence277 wrote:

Perhaps, since this is a much later and smaller book it was just sloppy writing, but...

Quote:

An earth breaker is normally a two-handed weapon,

preventing the use of a klar in one hand without imposing
penalties for using the earth breaker one-handed.

Even for RAW fans, this seems to imply that, without this feat, the earth breaker's a two-handed weapon but you can use it, in combat, one-handed, by taking penalties.
Interesting find. It is certainly worth starting its own FAQ thread for that. My guess is that it's probably an error.

It's undoubtedly a poor choice in words. The PDT has been especially clear (The Great Bastard Sword FAQ Wars) that if something is a two-handed weapon, it is impossible to wield in one hand. The only exceptions are for weapons which specifically grant the ability to one-hand based upon proficiency (BS, DWA, etc. - but even then, they're treated as one-handed weapons when wielded in one hand), or for abilities that specifically allow two-handed weapons to be wielded in one hand or as one-handed weapons (lance while mounted, phalanx fighter, jotungrip, etc.).


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I do wish there were rules for wielding 2 handers in one hand other than "no". Maybe something like a penalty to attack equal to the weight of the weapon. And maybe stick on a stipulation that the weapon can't exceed one quarter of your light load.

The same rule could apply to wielding two handers a size larger, but with only a half light load limit.


DEFCON.Clown wrote:
What is the penalty for wielding a two handed weapon in one hand? The best I can figure is -2 since a Two Handed Weapon is one size category larger then a typical one handed weapon.

"At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge" Titan Mauler is a Fighter/Barbarian archetype that allows the PC to wield two-handed weapons with one hand at 2nd level with the class feature "Jotun Grip"


AssKing4AFriend wrote:
DEFCON.Clown wrote:
What is the penalty for wielding a two handed weapon in one hand? The best I can figure is -2 since a Two Handed Weapon is one size category larger then a typical one handed weapon.
"At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like. This ability replaces uncanny dodge" Titan Mauler is a Fighter/Barbarian archetype that allows the PC to wield two-handed weapons with one hand at 2nd level with the class feature "Jotun Grip"

9 year necro gj. Does no one ever look at the date before they reply to something??


Paying attention to one's surroundings? NEVER!

And... Weapon Trick: Two-Handed Weapon...
One-Handed Lunge...


Also 2020-2014=6, does no one do math before making a claim?


AwesomenessDog wrote:
Also 2020-2014=6, does no one do math before making a claim?

the necro quoted the first post which was 2011. use your eyes to see the numbers before you speak

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