that sounds pretty awesome so far. Curious to see where it goes with wind dukes, rod of 7 parts or a few other creature worm that walks....
Star Dragon Caith wrote:
The reviews seem to indicate that there is a lack of content, and that much of the work is left to the DM. Is this accurate? Should I temper my expectations when comparing to the (thrilling success that was the) original PF Bestiary?
Honestly its ptetty thin and underwhelming, especially the monster selection given. Nothing like bestiarys at all.
The appendix in the back, creating monsters and templates, seems pretty useful.
But not sure its worth the $40 price tag. If this is going to be the offerings for products for starfinder, i might have to rethink the game.
The one true solarian build for actually being a strong and durable combatant, starting from 1st level
Colette Brunel wrote:
Actually no. You are leaving out the critical part that says "no greater than."
Which means the top end is level + 1. It could be just level.
As someone who owns more the a few APs, im glad its shorter. Most of whats after the adventure i didnt care too much about. The short stories in 6 parts are worthless too me.
As long as the adventure length is roughly the same, and they can put a planet or ship or couple alien life forms at the end, im good.
Drovnar Strongbrew wrote:
It might well be a generation thing. Older school gamer i would rather tinker and tell a story that i eant rather then the story paizo wants. It doesnt matter what everyone else wants. Only what i and the group does.
Not really the best idea for this ap, to play a hobgoblin. Besides mistrust, vilified, and many other things, you might get knifed if your sleep. Seriously. You want to play the same race that just bur n ed their hones and killed or enslaved their loved ones, no matter ho good a paladin you could be, you are still a hobgoblin.
It's not that fire isn't exciting, it's tgat fire is overdone in comparison to the other three planes- there are 4 different city of Brass done. Fire was the main opponent in temple of elemental evil. And so on.......folks have wanted more ofvthe other planes.
Besides many of the other items that folks have already said in this thread about items in giantslayer.....the answer is yes, actually. There is a segment that does feel that way. To quote another person in this very forum:
"It's the most boring Paizo AP to date. I mean, it's not badly written or with structural problems, but it just doesn't have a single theme, NPC, location or idea which grabbed me. It feels like if after Iron Gods Paizo decided to put out a super turbo conservative AP to placate the grognards and compete with WotC in the field of traditional adventures."
Truthfully, it should be CHEAPER to just hire a hireling or go leadership to do whatever you neeed done and let him pay his own expenses.
Cheaper doesnt mean better. Depends on his plans- hiring someone is great, but they may not know the ins and outs of slave markets, processing and various other items- such as who, how many guards and various items.
I can see an argument for it, short term. Long term no. Depends on what his plans are. But its really a sit down with your DM and discuss ideas and see whats what.
I had some hope for PF early on because their original business model was adventures & settings. I am however not surprised that a 3.5 clone took the route it did.
The funny part is everyone can agree 3.5 had bloat......yet pathfinder which has produced more products it's being argued does not have bloat.
Redbeard the Scruffy wrote:
That's easy to say in your experience but you should note that in many cases it's not that easy or simply to just do so. When I lived in NY ( that is the state, NOT the city ) I had to drive an hour minimum, to even FIND other gamers. Much less find more.
It's never as simple as your experiences make out.
captain yesterday wrote:
I don't see how that's a problem.
It becomes a problem because of the break neck rate of release. And combine tgat with the sheer amount of products out there and rules in each, there is no way to check how rules interact with each other or how the stack....into things that become broken combos. Which, depending on your table, may not be welcome bu the DM or outshine other players.
Don't forget that early pathfinder was advertised as 3.5 cranked to 11. Pathdinderdefinately delivers that with the bloat....for good or for ill.
Forever Slayer wrote:
Given Paizo's business strategy has a strong emphasis on a subscription model, I'd hazard to say them. Its paizo that is, while not forcing, heavily encouraging buying them all. And once you start people buying all the products, then they will want to use them what they have bought.
I'd argue that the only other one likely to be done is Kingmaker, as it was the second most popular one after RotR.
The other 3 really arent really in the running.
Fair enough, carmachu. The more appropriate thing for me to have said would be "Paizo is writing for the largest audience they can." The subset that has issues with sexual violence in their fiction is larger than the subset that doesn't, so they try to write to please as many people as possible.
"Writing for the largest audience they can" is debatable given some of their moves and writing changes the last couple years. While I'll grant you that subset, the AP is dealing with orcs, half orcs and a community under constant war in a border region. It didnt have to get spelled out like book of erotic fantasy, but some acknowelegement of such would have been appropriate. I mean, their ok with murdering the children in the AP (hope knives) but not the reality of half orcs. Pretty sure that if you polled the same subset that has sexual violence, they would have the same issue with killing children in case things turned south.
It could have been handled in similar fashion as hope knives.
I think the problem is that some posters on this thread are expecting Paizo to go to places that they don't feel comfortable going on a mass basis. To them I must reply: Paizo is not writing for your group; they're writing for all groups.
The corollary is that if you're writing for all groups, you're really not writing for any groups then. You really cant please all people.
This. I agree with you and the OP and much of what you said is true.
There's a reason I'm an EX-charter subscriber. The current Paizo is nothing like the paizo I signed up with in 2008.
It's the most boring Paizo AP to date. I mean, it's not badly written or with structural problems, but it just doesn't have a single theme, NPC, location or idea which grabbed me. It feels like if after Iron Gods Paizo decided to put out a super turbo conservative AP to placate the grognards and compete with WotC in the field of traditional adventures.
What, paizo capitalizing on the release of 5th to entice folks to buy their product by harkening back to days of old, of a module that was a classic?
Thats kinda a big fat duh. Yes thats exactly what they did. I think it was even mentioned somewhere, enworld I think, that that was the line of thinking of making it.
Insain Dragoon wrote:
So Golarian is like the 40th Millennium. It's a snapshot in time before big events start happening.
Your example is terrible because 40k has been SO static for over 20 years that they've gone nowhere so much they've turned to the hours heresy....which is more popular in many respects.
I get Jacobs point but sooner or later the static feeling gets old.
Mummy's mask wasnt that old school. I have no interest in egyptian themed parts of paizo's world.
Shattered star was ok. But the end BBG was too wacky, as were some other items. I might pick it up eventually and adapt parts of it for my own ends. It reminds me of the old Rod of Seven parts adventure.....but wackier in places.
I'm on the other side of the fence. I've long since canceled my subscriptions because piazo has gone on "wacky" encounter design and adventures. (among other reasons) SO this will be the first paizo product I buy in a long time.
I like traditional adventures. But that might just be the old player in me. So giants, orcs and dragons sound like fun.
So stock answers that you've been giving everyone?
It be nice to have real answers. Or expectations that it be delayed way past the usual time amount with some kind of disclaimer, when you guys posted the sale, rather then what we've been given.
Its rather poor customer service.
EDIT: So on further review, yes cancel the order.
Finding players isn't nearly as hard as it once was. The power of the internet usually means you can track down players in your community isn't nearly as hard to find folks. Especially if you go to forums that support your edition ideals.
And module support isn't always as needed as necessary. You can convert items from other editions. Even paizo's module support for pathfinder is spotty, not really regular(unless you like APs)
Matt Thomason wrote:
Lets not forget also moving away from drop and play, and turned into mini-AP type adventures well. The prices don't bother me at all as much as their no longer adventures that I can plug into gaps.
Book of erotic fantasy was rather okay. The horribad parts of it were the illustrations. There was so much that was oh so much worse. People act as if bad quality is some kind of threat. It never was. Nothing prevented anyone from reading reviews of books before buying them.
True. But that doesn't mean there wasn't a glut o rally bad products out durng OGL.....with some absolute shining stars like say Ptolus.
Well yes, it is. And its bad. But yes pick any of the may other BAD products out there. It might be the whipping boy, but its not the only really bad product out there....
Sorta-related-almost-kinda also, despite my willingness to pay for the Next/5e core rulebooks, I was rather surprised to see that WotC sells their new adventure pdfs for $17.99 whereas Paizo's are $9.99. What's funny is, I was willing to pay $25(-ish) for Murder in Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard, so I guess that's what a dead tree copy and single adventure DM screen are worth to me, or something.
I suggest that you relook at paizo's again. Paizo's adventures have changed PDF prices. The old ones are $9.99. The newer PDF's are $17.99, same as WOTC.
Don't think its that troubling. Sounds much more reasonable then the debacle of the OGL/GSL process back in 4e days. He's not promising a license is coming, materials son, keeping folks hanging on but nothing forthcoming.
Its a slower, reasonable approach. Quality is a problem with OGL. OGl had great freedom, and openness, but lets be honest, there was a ton of crap produced as well. And no one wants to see anther book o erotic fantasy again....
THB greedy is good. It means if you make a profit,you ca domor. No profit, no expansion. I have to agree with the second part....which is why I chimed into the thread. Listen to folks reasons why paizo makes money, as per early in the thread, just strikes me was wrong as well.
Both wish profit- Paizo and WOTC. To think otherwise is foolish. As to your last question? No not really. Both wish profit by putting out products. Whether charging more or by producting many many products, its a matter of opinion which is greedy and which isn't.
Matt Thomason wrote:
Again, its perspective. For you. many products at reasonable prices is ok, as its asking for more money is greedy. For me, many many products even at a reasonable price could be construed as greedy, as its the splat effect milkig more money with more products(not only, campaign, players, AP, module...but tales, miniatures, pawns, cards, etc...)
Just a matter of opinion. Its all how you dress it up, just like earlier in the thread.
Well lets be honest. WOTC is pretty much not that good at adventure writing...with very few excptions(RHoD was great). So for the first adventure for a new edition I can easily see why they would turn to outside sources for it. Anyone that remembers 4e launch and the first adventure(shadowfell keep? wasn't it) remembers how it wasn't that good. Advanture needs to shine the first out of the gate.
Depends. when one dresses up "greedy" as paying their bills and paying employses....how is it any different.
It depends on points of view. I've seen ones posting WOTC marketin the new edition as greedy, but some how paizo is not? A flip sie view could be, paizo is just as greedy, look at all the products paizo is pushing, how much splat paizo releases.....how I that not greedy in another's opinion, any different from WOTC? Dressing it up as how it was characterized earlier in the thread doesn't make it any different.
Anti-Paizo Mini-Rant, spoilerd for the sensitive
Thank you for that. That pretty much sums up the "jump the shark" comment I made earlier, and why I dropped all my subscriptions a while back. I didn't feel like arguing with s or mods. I've seen too many devolve once dissenting opinions of anything that someone doesn't like.
I just vote with my wallet. FGG looks good as does a few others.
I'm going to pick up the books and see. It looks promising, unlike what I saw coming out with 4e. And while I like the core pathfinder game, in many ways its jumped the shark with me, and I no longer subscribe as I was once a charter subscriber. paizo of today isnt the same paizo of 5-6 years ago, for me.
So looks promising, and since I'd be DMing, I'll give it a shot.
Except when those other people dictating what he can do are the publishers who keep his books from getting to you in the first place, because "black people don't write SF" or "people don't want to read about black heroes" or whatever other nonsense.
EXCEPT its not the publIShers AS PER YOUR EXAMPLE. It was other people of color. SO try again, or get a better quote:
No actually, I don't. Listening to anyone pulling you down is foolish. If the story of yeine is good, I'll read it, whether he or she is white, black or whatever. Letting other people dictate what you can do is HIS problem, not mine.
Most people want to be entertained. If you can do that people will buy it.
Inner Heru wrote:
I'd doubt anyone know the race of e author when they pick up the book, unless its a more well known sci-fi or fantasy author- for me say david drake.
What do you do? You pick up the book and read the back. if it tickles your fancy, you buy it. If not, you put it back and try the next one. Most people on the board don't go "oh its a black/white/female author, not buying the cool story."