More hard cover special edition APs like Rise?


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Pawns do, indeed, come in a box. ^_^

A "box set" is a term for a much more complex and expensive item, though - one which involves multiple books, maps, and other accoutrements. I've never bought one myself, unless you count a couple late-2e equivalents of the Beginner Box.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalindlara wrote:
A "box set" is a term for a much more complex and expensive item, though - one which involves multiple books, maps, and other accoutrements. I've never bought one myself, unless you count a couple late-2e equivalents of the Beginner Box.

Having bought a couple in my time (good lord,I've gotten old!), I'm always surprised that they aren't better sellers/profit engines.

A good box set is a treasure trove for the buyer- L5R'sSecond City box set four or five years ago is the most recent specimen I've encountered, and it was worth every single penny.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Second City was a spectacular example.

I think there are several problems with the profitability:

One is that boxes are just expensive to make.

Another is that you have to pay someone to assemble everything.

Finally, there's the added freight costs not only along the supply chain from the printer to the publisher, then the distributor then the customer - but also just getting everything together. The people who make the boxes are often not the people printing the books nor the people making the cards or the dice or....Getting all of that stuff in the one place (so it can all be put in the box) is an extra step and freight is annoyingly expensive. :/


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Cole Deschain wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
A "box set" is a term for a much more complex and expensive item, though - one which involves multiple books, maps, and other accoutrements. I've never bought one myself, unless you count a couple late-2e equivalents of the Beginner Box.

Having bought a couple in my time (good lord,I've gotten old!), I'm always surprised that they aren't better sellers/profit engines.

A good box set is a treasure trove for the buyer- L5R'sSecond City box set four or five years ago is the most recent specimen I've encountered, and it was worth every single penny.

A boxed set is a great buy for a consumer. That's why they don't make money. It costs a lot to produce and package. Especially when you are collating multiple non-book items into the box, posters, tokens, etc.

It's far more economical from a production standpoint to only produce one thing, since typically you use different printers for books, boxes, posters, counters, etc.

The Pawns work because it's just one type of product in the box, it just happens to need a box to hold it.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Vic Wertz on boxed sets

The basic idea is they can sell the individual components more readily than the whole thing, for the price they'd have to charge to make money on it.


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Erik Mona wrote:
(...) artistic style of her illustration doesn't quite match the Pathfinder aesthetic. (...)

THIS, SO MUCH THIS.

Usually all the pictures from a Adventure Path follow the same aesthetic.

In some adventure paths, specially the first ones, some images didn't match. Laori is propably the biggest example I can remember.

Laori was, by far, the favorited NPC from CotC for my players. They didn't believe she was on the books and that she had that shiny personality (they thought I'd made her this way by myself)

Dark Archive

Kalindlara wrote:


I guarantee you that even if - and that's a big if - they do another Anniversary Edition, it won't be any of these. The only one that even has a shot is Legacy of Fire, and it's in line behind Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness (and possibly Kingmaker) for updating. That's in addition to JonGarrett's point up above.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news in this regard, I suppose. ^_^

I'd argue that the only other one likely to be done is Kingmaker, as it was the second most popular one after RotR.

The other 3 really arent really in the running.


Cole Deschain wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
A "box set" is a term for a much more complex and expensive item, though - one which involves multiple books, maps, and other accoutrements. I've never bought one myself, unless you count a couple late-2e equivalents of the Beginner Box.

Having bought a couple in my time (good lord,I've gotten old!), I'm always surprised that they aren't better sellers/profit engines.

A good box set is a treasure trove for the buyer- L5R'sSecond City box set four or five years ago is the most recent specimen I've encountered, and it was worth every single penny.

The new Horror on the Orient Express box set is one of the most impressive RPG products I have ever seen. I would love to see Pathfinder do something of that nature one day.


carmachu wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:


I guarantee you that even if - and that's a big if - they do another Anniversary Edition, it won't be any of these. The only one that even has a shot is Legacy of Fire, and it's in line behind Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness (and possibly Kingmaker) for updating. That's in addition to JonGarrett's point up above.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news in this regard, I suppose. ^_^

I'd argue that the only other one likely to be done is Kingmaker, as it was the second most popular one after RotR.

The other 3 really arent really in the running.

If you think Curse of the Crimson Throne isn't in the running (should they do another one), you haven't really been paying attention to these threads when they pop up.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I wouldn't buy a Kingmaker hardcover.

Curse, Second Darkness and maybe Legacy of Fire, but never Kingmaker.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would buy Legacy of Fire, Second Darkness, Curse, Shattered Star and Carrion Crown, since they are all older. You may even get me to buy Jade Regent, if they expanded on the Crown of the World side adventures and information. I would love to have the party explore it more.


Updating the old 3.5 editions to a new HC seems to make a lot of sense, though I can see why they wouldn't want to collect the adventures paths after that.

I'd definitely pick up Legacy of Fire, and probably Curse of the Crimson Throne, given I've heard such good things.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Just to throw my 2 coppers in, I'd also totally buy hard covers of a lot of the ap's, even ones I'm subscribed too already (subscribed since Mummy's Mask I think.)

Especially hard covers of the pre-PF AP's (curse, darkness, legacy) and would love a hard cover of Council and Kingmaker (council using updated rules from ultimate campaign and ultimate intrigue, maybe even Horror Adventures for some parts)

I'm not saying it's necessary, but Jade Regent's caravan rules could greatly benefit from a revamp (pretty sure there's fan versions already, but I haven't seen them.)

Granted, I'm not 'expecting' anything to come of this, but I felt I should throw my wish list out there! Thanks for humoring me :)


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This has been discussed a number of times elsewhere.

The main candidate seems to be Curse of the Crimson Throne... it is popular, the parts are unavailable, and it is pre-Pathfinder RPG rules (3.5).

Second Darkness is also a viable candidate. It NEEDS the attention more, but that also makes it less likely to be done, as it would be much more work. It needs to be re-structured and sections re-written, really. It touches on some key points of Golarion lore (Earthfall, the origins of the Drow) which would usually make it a cinch to be updated.. but the poor sales attest to its problems, and the work required to fix them (giving the impression that 'all Golarion elves are jerks' is one of them). That James Jacobs has said he would like to take a crack at fixing it is a positive sign, but having a potential sponsor for the project isn't enough to tip the scales unless other elements line up.

Legacy of Fire is a lukewarm candidate. It is pre-Pathfinder RPG like CotCT and SD, but it is not popular like CotCT and does not have the important lore connections of SD.

Other APs are already Pathfinder RPG, which immediately makes them less in need of updating, so less viable candidates.

You will note that the paragraph about Second Darkness is larger than the others.. which I think is a testament to its "iffy" position. CotCT is clearly the leading candidate as it meets the three main criteria discussed.. lack of availability of the printed copies, being pre-Pathfinder rules, and being popular. Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness meet only one, but SD has more lore elements and setting themes that need to be addressed, I think.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Well said. ^_^


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Urath DM wrote:
CotCT is clearly the leading candidate as it meets the three main criteria discussed.. lack of availability of the printed copies, being pre-Pathfinder rules, and being popular. Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness meet only one, but SD has more lore elements and setting themes that need to be addressed, I think.

Kingmaker meets two (popular and out-of-print). The kingdom building rules are also quite out-of-date so that might count as a "kind of needs updating to the current ruleset".


Steve Geddes wrote:
Urath DM wrote:
CotCT is clearly the leading candidate as it meets the three main criteria discussed.. lack of availability of the printed copies, being pre-Pathfinder rules, and being popular. Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness meet only one, but SD has more lore elements and setting themes that need to be addressed, I think.
Kingmaker meets two (popular and out-of-print). The kingdom building rules are also quite out-of-date so that might count as a "kind of needs updating to the current ruleset".

Consensus among non-Paizo people in the other discussions was that the 3.5-era APs have a stronger "claim" to a position in any such lineup, due to being pre-Pathfinder. That may not be accurate, of course.. it is just us trying to read the tea-leaves and make sense of the patterns. :)

The kingdom rules being updated in Ultimate Campaign mitigates the need to update Kingmaker itself... a revised version would likely point the buyer to the PRD for the free updated rules, just as the Rise of the Runelords directs the reader to the PRD for the updated rules for Haunts.

While Kingmaker *is* popular and out-of-print (because it is so popular), and those are two criteria in its favor, being already up-to-date for Pathfinder rules makes it less of a candidate. Also, being designed as a Sandbox campaign whose timeline can extend YEARS, that somewhat divorces it from the setting continuity and weakens its case.

If I had to rank them, I would put Kingmaker at the top of the list *after* the 3.5-era APs... mpstly because it is out of print and so popular. Paizo could as easily decide to do another sandbox AP, though.

Of course, there is no guarantee that all of the 3.5-era APs would be updated (so Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire may never be done), but Curse of the Crimson Throne seems to have more of a "lock" on being the next one, if/when that ever happens.


Steve Geddes wrote:
Urath DM wrote:
CotCT is clearly the leading candidate as it meets the three main criteria discussed.. lack of availability of the printed copies, being pre-Pathfinder rules, and being popular. Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness meet only one, but SD has more lore elements and setting themes that need to be addressed, I think.
Kingmaker meets two (popular and out-of-print). The kingdom building rules are also quite out-of-date so that might count as a "kind of needs updating to the current ruleset".

Plus, they are STILL available in PDF format. For the growing crowd that had things on computer, I'm not so certain something like that really makes Kingmaker the less viable candidate. It is obviously popular, and in addition, ALSO needs rules updating in conjunction with the rules found in Ultimate Campaign.

Plus, it also has some things which could be worked out (Such as the sort of shaky master villain which is just sort of there...hinted in the first part, ignored for the next four, and then suddenly the big bad for the sixth).

From someone who already has all the AP's in some form or the other...I would probably be MOST excited about a Kingmaker Hardcover AP to tell the truth. I'd most likely buy ANY of them that they put out, but Kingmaker would be the biggest one I'd like.

Other than that, I'd prefer that they have something in the AP that has something I don't ALREADY have beyond simple rules updates for PF. For example, Second Darkness being smoothed out would be a major plus...though I'm not sure if it is the best choice (if what people say about sales is right...could it also be that they printed more copies of second darkness than other ones prior and that's why it seems to have taken longer in regards to sales...I know it had two covers for the first part (I'd have to take a look, but I think it's that part, I have a copy of both covers).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For me... it's Kingmaker's "sandbox" status that militates against giving it a more streamlined AP once-over (its also why I regard it as a very good AP that I personally don't like in proportion to its mechanical solidity). I have some bestiaries and a map- if I want a sandbox, I am quite capable of building my own. With that said, from a sales point of view, it's hardly a longshot candidate- it's extremely popular, the storyline could benefit from a little tightening up, and referring people to the SRD Kingdom rules would be one of the easiest rules fixes possible, in the interest of not overloading any staffers working on it.

CotCT could do with a bit of polish and a rules update. The 3.5-PF conversion and getting it all available again would be the big help. The story COULD use a couple of nudges-mostly in the "field trip" sections of volume 4, but despite how badly I want it, I must say, it's really good as it is, and a PDF of converted mechanics would probably achieve a lot of the same goals.

Legacy of Fire... well, it needs a rules update, but I'm not sure how much else it really has going for it. It generally doesn't seem to generate particularly passionate responses of either support or condemnation.

Second Darkness would absolutely be improved on just about every level... but the marketing could be tricky. I am reminded of seeing the shrink wrap on the director's cut of Alexander, with a sticker reading roughly, "faster paced, more action-packed!" A do-over fix job may be a definite step up, but whether the sucker SELLS or not is another issue.

Dark Archive

On Legacy of Fire, I'd at least be interested in AP set in Katapesh so it has that going for it :P

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