Search Posts
Admittedly, I'm a little addicted to it I just played through episode 4 earlier today. I also criticize it a little too, due to it's sometimes over reliance on dramatic endings for each episode and the fact it feels less like a game and more like a TV shows with a few choices, some of which seem to be almost inconsequential. Still like though, and I'll still be getting chapter 5 when it comes out.
Oddly I keep thinking that the I might want to change the vanquisher class to psychic (occult) magic, but then he wouldn't technically qualify as a arcane paladin. But something just keeps pushing me that direction. Anyway with the warpriest and paladin both existing I think we could have an arcane paladin (so to speak), and a bloodrager, and probably have less cross over in theme.
more useful if you had the wards based on schools Good idea, actually I wasn't being completely serious when I wrote the class. Just opened up a word file and threw up ideas for around a half hour and copied and pasted it. Looking at it there might be some semblance of a good idea in there. Perhaps with some refinement.
Okay, I know I didn't start this thread (the pale king did) but here's my go at a fighter wizard villa paladin style. Basically I just combined the suel arcanamach with the occult slayer, enjoy. Vanquisher
Level -- BAB -- Fort/Ref/Will -- Special
Spells
Arcane Shield: Forms a shield of pure arcane energy the shield last for 4 + Int modifier rounds per day plus an additional 2 rounds for every vanquisher level after 1st level. The rounds do not need to be consecutive. The shield give a plus +2 bonus to AC and saving throws, against spells and spell-like abilities (which increases to a +3 at 5th level, +4 at 10th level and so on). The shield actual floats in the air and bonuses stacks with any from a hand held shield. Armored Arcana: Vanquisher spells are simple allowing him to cast spells in light and medium armor with no spell failure. Spellsunder: The vanquisher both physical attacks the opponent and simultaneously effects the opponent as if struck by a targeted dispel magic except it also effects spell-like abilities. If effective the opponents spell is sundered and he takes damage as normal plus the vanquisher Int modifier in bonus damage. Magic Resistance: Of 5 + vanquisher level. Mystic Ward: You learn to scribe a number of wards each one takes a full round to create. You get one ward at 3rd level and a new one at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, 18. Each ward last 1 round plus an additional round for each full action spent maintaining the effect.
And more I have to think up. Spells: Hooray, you can cast arcane spells with your intelligence score, you get a spellbook too.
Specialist School: You can cast one additional spell per day from one school of magic (abjuration conjuration, etc.) of your choice (up to fourth level) and you can learn every spell in that chosen school (up to 4th level). And since were at it, you gain that schools corresponding powers. Tenacious Magic: At 8th level spells of your chosen school become difficult to dispel +6 to DC. Improved Armored Arcana: Vanquisher spells have become simpler still now he can cast them with no spell failure in heavy armor and with shields too. Vicious Strike: At 12th level you can do double damage on readied attacks against a spellcaster. Greater Spellsunder: Like spellsunder but now you cast a targeted greater dispel magic when you hit. School Mastery: At 17th level once per day you may cast a 5th level spell of your choice from the school of magic you specialized in. It functions as a normal spell in all regards but a high intelligence score dose not increase the number of time you can use it.
I'm thinking something with heavy armour, martial weapon proficiency, weapon bond, an arcane shield ability of some kind, and something arcane school related would be cool and fit what I am wanting. I could see a warden type class fitting that, add in a little of the suel arcanamach's ability to dispel through physical attacks. I'd play it.
I want the hexblade back (the 3.5e version), but the bloodrager is okay for the most part. I always liked the magic dabblers (Paladin, Ranger) classes, seems like the designers prefer hybrid (bard-like) casting progression though. Hopefully we'll get some new dabblers in the future.
I once played a 3rd edition game up to level 29, and I've played pathfinder up to level 20 many times. That hardly makes me an expert on anything regarding high/epic level game-play, but it was a fun time all around. The fun of high levels is everything becomes do or die, characters start to overspecialize in their roles, and gain immense power, but everything becomes strangely swingy at the same time. This is seen as a weakness, but it's kind of a strength in disguise. Don't over think it, and don't try to make it like a low level game, just go for it. Change your strategies accordingly, and most important don't over think it. You'll want to put in endless hours designing appropriate challenges for the PC's, and they'll just wreak it in a few minutes anyway. Think less about a small number of really hard battles, and instead concentrate on larger numbers of specialized foes, just waiting to die, but also taking up precious resources at the same time. Well like I said I'm not an expert or anything, but high levels can be fun. You just have to play to the strengths of the system, instead of against it. Of course some people will never like high levels because of the arms race kind of feel, but it can be exhilarating in it's own way.
Weapon speeds, It really did balance out weapons making the dagger a more attractive choice, and since spell-caster where very slow. Weapon vs armor type chart. Okay, I know not every group used this and it could be argued that it added extra book keeping, but the extra flavor it added was immense. 3rd editions skill system, I'm not a big fan of reducing the skill list. Seems like we lost more then we gained by doing so. Other then that I can't think of anything I would seriously bring back. But, I would like armor as damage resistance to be a standard rule instead of optional.
Interesting. I really like the first and third option for skills, reducing the skill list doesn't do anything for me. Variant multi-classing sounds like incredible, actually I like it a lot better then the default multi-classing system. And of course the new stamina system, yes me like, me like. I want to wrap my slimy little fingers around that one. Interesting how it adds a whole lot of possibilities, say a wizard can't hit with his crossbow, maybe use stamina to help with that. Fighter can't make his will save, try using stamina. So many options. :)
Before 3rd Edition, most, if not all, character classes demanded minimums in certain ability scores for a character to take them. I suggest these be reinstated. It helps preserve the integrity of what the class is supposed to be, and would be a good obstacle to power-gaming/system abuse. Sorta, on one hand you could use this system to essentially make certain classes rarer (like paladins in AD&D). But, I don't really think it would stop power-gaming. A fighter is still weaker then a wizard irregardless if wizards are less common then fighters. It would also severely limit multi-classing as an option, btw multi-classing is usually a sub-optimum choice why limit it further. However that being said, no one can stop you from implementing it in your own homebrew if that's what you want. Some old schoolers will love this, but most won't.
Sorry for some mmorpg terms, but it sort of fits. Heavy melee damage - Two handed weapon fighter, cavalier, paladin or barbarian, alternatively a two weapon fighter or ranger.
How separate the divide is between psionics and magic is up to the interpreter. When 3e psionics came out I originally ruled that psionics was a kind of anti-magic system. The closest comparison I can make is to how the alchemist is currently flavored, only based around the mind or more precisely the ego instead of components. I don't hate on the vancian magic system, who to say how magic should work in a fantasy world, maybe the reason magic doesn't seem to be real is because they're doing it wrong ;). But like others have said I also have a preference towards mana points, or similar systems. When it comes to re-flavoring, not a fan. Concepts become clearer when flavor text and mechanics support each other. The big advantage a class system has over a skill system is that immediate association one gets when a single word (say fighter) can be used to not only produce a mental image, but also give a clear idea of what powers and skills you would have. Re-flavor and that advantage is lost, might as well be playing a skill based system. Not to point any kind of accusing finger at anybody, by if I was GMing for Ashiel, I wouldn't stop her from saying her egoist/shaper combo was a witch, but she would at best be considered a bit eccentric, actual most people would consider her loony, and a true witch would find her claim to be insulting. Of course at her game table that may be just fine.
Go for it. I know most will respond with the typical KISS response, but if you want more don't be afraid to experiment. Personally I wouldn't go as far as you on the realism, but I could see adding in damage reduction vs. weapons types, like the example you gave with metal armors being more effective against slashing weapons. Personally I would like a fatigue system, and a hit location system. I would design them myself, but my tendency to make things convoluted, usually I over think things, generally keeps my designers instinct in check. Do me a favor, when you work out some specifics on your new armor system, post it. I'd like to see it.
Not currently using them. Mythic is a lot like epic, for some people there is a wow factor that attracts them, on the other hand others see it as significantly more work for little gain. Then there's me, I don't mind complex rules systems. I like the mental workout they provide, but I also dislike mythics tendency to essentially re-write a character concept. Frankly epic had some major flaws, but at least I was still playing the same character, the same game. With mythic I have to rethink my character concept from scratch. I could see using mythic if it was planned from the start, so I could build around it, but otherwise I wouldn't even bother.
Count me in as another Nethack fan, I also dabbled in the varies flavors of Angband, mostly Zangband & Hangband. My favorite has to be TOME, originally a Angband variant that grew into a game of it's own, and an impressive one to boot. Years ago I tried teaching myself python along with pygame, so I could create my own rogue-like. I got as far as making boxes appear on a screen and move around with a push of the arrow key, and well that's about it. I swear one of these days I'll get back to it.
The direct damage spells were always a problem, both with the original spell list and the new one. The problem with the magus spell list is the large amount of trap options, sure a little of that is bound to happen, but why choose fireball if your going to do more damage more reliably with your greatsword. Sure the magus spell list had some useful spells, but about half the spell list was pointless. The new spell list is practically the same (honestly it's like 70% identical), we got some new and useful spells but lost some really good ones, and ironically the fireball, burning hands, lightning bolt, and similar spells that should have gone away, didn't. Or, they have changed the bloodrage mechanic to add a bonus to charisma while raging to raise the DC's of their spells, or changed their casting stat to Con, or removed (improved) uncanny dodge and added in two new abilities that increased the DC & damage of their spells while raging. My only issue with the original bloodrager was why cast spells other then a few buffs, and my current issue with the class is why cast spells other then a few buffs. The bloodline powers/feats and the rage mechanic synergies quite nicely, but the spell-casting feels tacked on almost pointless. Still I have to play-test or it's all just theory crafting, and I won't be able to do so until Thursday.
One thing that strikes me as interesting is the new Blood sanctuary ability. Combined this with (improved) uncanny dodge, and well you could just target yourself with any area of effect offensive spell (like fireball). It's almost understandable, bloodragers are imbued with magic, and very destructive in their abilities so targeting yourself while running into a group of enemies seems appropriate.I believe you have Uncanny Dodge confused with Evasion. You're right, my bad.
One thing that strikes me as interesting is the new Blood sanctuary ability. Combined this with (improved) uncanny dodge, and well you could just target yourself with any area of effect offensive spell (like fireball). It's almost understandable, bloodragers are imbued with magic, and very destructive in their abilities so targeting yourself while running into a group of enemies seems appropriate.
I'm a little surprised nobody cared for the suggestion on the thread Playtest Data: Thoughts on the bloodrager. A poster there going by, The dragon, made a interesting suggestion. His suggestion was to take a cue from the old Suel Arcanamach prestige class, and give a limited selection to around 3 or 4 schools of magic, to the bloodrager, that seemed most appropriate. I know I'm reiterating, but I thought it was a cleaver halfway point between a custom spell list and a already standardized one.
Sorta, I like the idea of giving classes like the bloodrager access to wizard schools instead of spell list. Instead of using the magus spell list, you would use conjuring, necromancy, and transmutation spells up to 4th level. (Note: I just pulled those schools of magic out of my ass, I don't know which schools would work the best). It still saves time and ink, but still adds a little something to differentiate the new classes from the old.
Thankfully there's d20pfsrd.com AND the PRD that you can just point new players to, for free even =) Yep , I though of that too. I wasn't suggesting that the class needed a unique spell list to solve this minor issue. What I'm saying is that the bloodrager spells section doesn't have the pfsrd listed as a possible resource, it just has the ultimate magic. It really should be there. The play-test is for pointing out these kind of oversights. Edited, I didn't want to sound sarcastic.
The Magus spell list could lead to a slight problem. A new player who only has the player's handbook and the APG isn't going to know what the magus spell list is or where to find it. We had this occure last night where a player asked "what the bloodrager's spell list was", and I replied the magus spell list, and he said "what's a magus". I might seen minor, since older player's can just explain, but if your completely new to the game you might not understand.
No offense, but the reason the class is MAD is because the stats you listed are the only proper way to build a bloodrager. You can't drop Con or Dex bellow 14 that's why their MAD, you can't raise Int at all. And, you have drop Cha in order to bring it up later with a magic item. Even paladins have a reason to raise their casting attribute beyond a 14 due to smite, divine grace, lay on hands, and channel D.E. It seems weird to me that a charisma based caster, with a parent class the exclusively uses charisma, first thought is to dump charisma. Maybe you like that, I find it strange.
Not to be counter productive, but I just don't like the idea of a Con based spellcaster. It would be the first time pathfinder used a physical ability score to represent magic (that I am aware of), and it takes us farther away from the sorcerer (one of our parent classes). If people are concerned about hit points, perhaps changing the class to d12's would fix that. While it breaks some of paizo's design standards, the barbarian already does. And besides the barbarian is one of our parent classes. A 12 Con and the +1 HP bonus from favored class would give you 14 Hps at first level, pretty good for a warrior/wizard hybrid. Why concentrate on con.
One of the issues I have with the name bloodrager, is the class seems to have little to do with blood. Bloodrage is just rage, it's exactly the same as the barbarian class ability, so why add blood to it. Bloodcasting just allows you to cast spells while raging, it has nothing to do with blood either. The only connection to blood is in the bloodline feats & powers, and in this case blood is used as a substitute for the word heritage (is in your families bloodline). You could even substitute the word heritage when it come to the bloodline powers and abilities (heritage powers, heritage feats, heritage spells), it all works. Now lets try it with bloodrage, heritagerage (???), nope dosn't work, Bloodrager = Heritagerager (What!) Of course I can just rename the class, but wouldn't Conqueror, Murderer, Vanquisher (Maybe), Reaver, Mauler, Berserker all fit if we just used different term then blood to describe a class that has little do do with blood. Heck You could just use heritage for the sorcerer influenced abilities, since they're not the same abilities anyway. Now if the class actually had something to do with blood, at least it would fit. Ok, I'm done now.
Personally I would like to see the class go a little more charisma based. Con effects hit points and yes we want this, but as it stands Con is far more important then Cha, and I want to balance them out more, as well as creating a difference between bloodrage and a ordinary rage. Raising Cha. would mean raising the DC of our spells in bloodrage, since casting spells in bloodrage as it stands now seems pointless, it helps change that. As it stands now I'd rather buff before hand. Even in case of touch based spells, well I rather just whack them with my sword anyway. The two skill point, was just a suggestion. I felt the barbarian should be overall a more skill focused class. Personally I think skills are overrated anyway. We have spells and cool bloodline powers Skills offer so little in the way of extra customization. We're freak'n raging spell-cast class, but we hardly have the need for spells, and raging dose so very little for our spell-casting. Maybe you like that, I find it a little disappointing.
I can't say I am fan of spell combat or spell strike, and I would like to see the class go a little more charisma based. We get 4 skill points per level (originally I didn't like this idea, but) if we have a secondary role as the party face by adding diplomacy and bluff to our skill selection we would have more reason to be charismatic. As for the magus spell list, well what can I say I just don't like it.
Another good idea. I like where this is going.
We all just need to keep our minds open, my fear is by requesting changes the satisfied among us will backlash. I want a good book, just like all of you, don't look at my personal gripes as counter productive. And for people like me, who are less then happy, you'd be surprised on how a lot of little changes can renew ones viewpoint. I think Jason is being sensible, let see all of these reworkings first, and then more calmly discus where we go from there. Remember time is not on Jason's side.
Maybe on the Arcanist, but I wouldn't cut the warpriest, It really should have had full BAB and d10 hps, but otherwise some minor tinkering could give a surprisingly good class.
I remember, yes it could work. Basically bloodragers would get access to spells from the Illusion, necromancy, and transmutation schools up to fourth level (just an example). A good compromise, I like it, which means everyone else will hate it.
Great work, though in fairness you forgot to factor in hit points, but since it's such a minor difference I don't think it matters.
|
