The Koga loves this game, for ascii technology it's stupendous. Then again The Koga always liked dungeon crawler "rpgs" over long drawn out Final Fantasy and crap. The Koga considerd converting D&D into a tabletop nethack, for starts every class would need use magick device as a class skill. But The Koga figures he'd see who here likes it, cause none of his pals have heard of it, and Shanna downloaded it and said "this is completely random and irritating". Which might be why The Koga likes it so. : P
Mmm...sweet sweet Nethack. Love it.
I've lost days of my life to Nethack, and then Slash'EM, but a few years back (before I ever started playing D&D) switched over to ADOM back in the days of Gamma 0.9.9 Prerelease 16b or some such nonsense. It has a better quest structure than Nethack ever did, and a generally cohesive feel to it. Both of them have the First Edition attitude that Law equates to Good and Chaos to Evil, which is irksome, but there's a certain appeal to rogue-like games that I haven't found anywhere else yet. It might be in the symbolic language, actually. I mean, where else can this:
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|&.......*|_______#
|...._.....|_______#
|........@#######
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mean the following:
You reach the end of the hallway and enter a deep, narrow room. The floor is the same rough stone that makes up the rest of the dungeon, but scarred as if by enormous claws. A black altar bearing to Erythnul dominates the center of the room, the remains of the last sacrifice still visible on its surface. A glint of reflected light catches your attention for a moment, from the corner of your eye, but then your focus is drawn away. In the opposite corner of the room, you see a giant red-skinned monster wielding a sword shaped like a lightning bolt. It looks up at the sound of your footsteps and, as it begins to stride toward you, it bares its teeth in a grimace... or is that a grin?
Oh, I have played Nethack and also some ADOM...and have friends who worship Angband (and Zangband and whatever there is). Been a while, though.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I have a friend attempting to hook me on Dwarf Fortress. It's an ascii Sim Fortress. The game creates a world when you first start it, and it you fail to build your fortress (which happens frequently) there is a chance you can discover the abandoned fortress next time you play. I haven't had a chance to do more than look at it.
Nethack rocks.
I have played a lot of Incursion, which is based largely (but not entirely) on D&D 3.5. It plays very much like Nethack, but with D&D classes, items, spells and monsters.
Reason for resurrecting an 8 year old thread? Maybe we should start a new roguelikes thread instead... :)
Wait. What? It was at the top of the forum. I didn't look at the date.
Wait. What? It was at the top of the forum. I didn't look at the date.
It probably wasn't. This forum has a weird habit of sending you to a random page when you refresh, instead of the one you were on (usually the first).
Since I'm here, I played Nethack for a while, usually to kill time in my high school Java class when I was done with my work.
It was fun, but a bit too frustrating for my taste.
I admit preferring Zangband, Cthangband, and ADOM over Nethack.
My ridiculously competent drow ranger just got devoured by a shadow ooze due to some massively flubbed rolls in difficult terrain, falling down over and over. D:
And I was doing so well!
I have been playing Incursion a bunch today.
Alright since this is continuing... I've been playing unNethack lately, which is a Nethack variant -- very similar to the original, but fixes some bugs, adds (optional) color indicators when your hit point status changes, de-color codes dragons, adds some more possible layout/seeds for Sokoban and other dungeons, amongst some other things. The only thing I dislike about it is that it restricts wishes to non magic items only; while I understand why they did that, there are times I have just desperately needed simple, not broken but technically magic items like a magic whistle and it's annoying you can't get that kind of stuff, especially when otherwise the RNG is being a dick in terms of item drops. (You can still wish for dragon scales, but because dragon abilities are random, that is also harder.) I never wish for artifacts or the like anyway, so I feel like I'm being punished/prevented from doing something I'd never do anyway. BUT... besides this, I think it actually does play better than the vanilla version.
Original Nethack I've ascended in about 3 times (archeologist, valkyrie, wizard). (Not counting savescum and wizard/explore mode wins.) Haven't ascended in unNethack yet, but mostly due to carelessness (ah, YASD, the most deadly monster in the game).
ADOM I would like to slap around whoever designed it, I find its level of "challenging" to be beyond relentlessly frustrating, tedious, and cruel. The only thing I liked that ADOM introduced was the idea of the tactics settings, to adjust whether you're fighting defensively (reducing accuracy) or fighting aggressively (reducing defense). I haven't tried the newer ADOM. Others' mileage vary of course.
Haven't tried Angband or its forks in a long time. I remember playing Moria ages ago.
Never heard of Incursion, might check it out at some point.
I'd drunk from a fountain and become a weretiger. Which was awesome. It was the first time I had ever received a result that good from a fountain.
I've played Nethack a couple of times. Never gotten very far, though. Dwarf Fortress is my roguelike of choice, though I like Fortress Mode better than Adventure Mode.
Nethack... ~sigh~ as fun as it was it is sad when the death list is filled with stuff like starved to death or choked on her food. I had an abysmally hard time and never could figure out how to win this game. The best I ever did was with a Valkyrie and I got some copy of the amulet never the real one. Monk's can't stay alive for me and although I love archeologists or priests they lack hitting power. Hmmm... it was a long time ago, maybe there are better versions or perhaps a players manual for it by now?
More Incursion!
My kobold ranger riding a giant bat is nearly level 5. Going good so far!
The kobold made it to level 7! And went through something like six animal companions. They're free, but die so easily.
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Count me in as another Nethack fan, I also dabbled in the varies flavors of Angband, mostly Zangband & Hangband. My favorite has to be TOME, originally a Angband variant that grew into a game of it's own, and an impressive one to boot.
Years ago I tried teaching myself python along with pygame, so I could create my own rogue-like. I got as far as making boxes appear on a screen and move around with a push of the arrow key, and well that's about it. I swear one of these days I'll get back to it.
Nethack... ~sigh~ as fun as it was it is sad when the death list is filled with stuff like starved to death or choked on her food. I had an abysmally hard time and never could figure out how to win this game. The best I ever did was with a Valkyrie and I got some copy of the amulet never the real one. Monk's can't stay alive for me and although I love archeologists or priests they lack hitting power. Hmmm... it was a long time ago, maybe there are better versions or perhaps a players manual for it by now?
Besides various wikis and discussion groups, this is advice -- imperfect, utterly incomplete, and based on personal experience -- to take or leave:
- GO SLOW. Remember that nothing happens until you take a turn (and doing things like checking what's in your inventory will not take a turn). I would estimate more than half of my own character deaths I could have prevented if I had stopped, taken a moment, and remembered I had that wand of magic missile/scroll of teleport/cursed potion of gain level etc. that I could have used to either win the fight or escape it.
- Do not hesitate or be afraid to run away. While sometimes it may be sensible to kill what's around you so you don't get cornered by it later (especially a challenge in the gnomish mines). Many areas scale with level in a dangerous way so be careful about leveling very quickly.
- Do everything you can to avoid being burdened (and certainly no more heavily encumbered than that) - speed is of the essence. If you feel you must be burdened (taking stuff to an altar to identify/sacrifice it, etc.), be very, very, careful and have escape plans and pets nearby. Note that food rations are heavy -- obviously if they're the only source of food you've got, keep them, but later in the game you will find plenty of access to K and C Rations from soldiers, and they are lighter and nearly as filling (this was the most useful advice another Nethack player gave me).
- Do not ever eat when you are satiated. I still die of choking on my food because I'm stupid and decide I really want to eat that thing that will give me that intrinsic, and obviously it's not worth it. There are ways to avoid choking on food that are obvious when you find them, but otherwise don't do it.
- Use and train up ranged weapons. Thrown daggers are best for many characters because you don't lose daggers the way you can lose other ammunition (rangers of course you want to use your bow). Being strong in melee is important too, but there's a lot of creatures best killed before they ever touch you, and this may be an especially essential survival tactic in big open spaces like the Big Room.
- Essential or extraordinarily useful items to wish for/find/keep an eye out for: bag of holding, 7 candles (needed to get to the endgame--when you find candles, buy/take them and keep them in a secure bag), magic markers and blank scrolls, plenty of holy water, an item that grants you reflection (such as a shield of reflection)an item that grants you magic resistance (such as a cloak of magic resistance). You also need some way of dealing with traversing water, whether it's boots of water walking, levitation, flight, or an amulet of magical breathing (bearing in mind unprotected metal items will rust in water). I highly recommend both fireproof boots of water walking, also for an area late in game, and amulet of magical breathing if possible.
Note often a bag of holding, amulet of reflection, or something else I am blanking on (amulet of life saving, maybe), is found in Sokoban (you get your choice in unNethack).
I also really find magic whistles are crucial if you're working with pets. There are of course some other plot items that are crucial but it's fairly obvious when you find them what they are.
- You also need to be sure you can build up the intrinsic elemental resistances by eating creatures (or leveling, if you are a monk). Ways of resisting or removing curses are also important.
- Pets can be irritating, but they really should be kept around and relied on to help you if possible. They can become stronger than you in lower levels, and can especially be important for characters who are weak in the early game (healers, wizards). Of course, later, you may find ways to polymorph them or otherwise get powerful pets. Also, see more in the spoilers.
Additional advice that may give things away (much of it you probably know, but still):
- Pets can identify cursed items. If they refuse to walk on top of something, or if forced to, "move reluctantly," the item is cursed. If they pick it up, it is uncursed or blessed (although it doesn't mean the item is helpful--drinking an uncursed potion of sleep will put you to sleep).
- You are probably already aware of this, but you can identify the blessed/uncursed/cursed status of items by dropping them on altars. It does not have to be an aligned altar to you. The guaranteed altar in Minetown is especially useful for this since you'll probably visit it early game.
- The plot items you need to not lose are the Candleabrum of Invocation (which is what you need the 7 candles for), the Bell of Opening, and the Book of the Dead. And of course, the Amulet of Yendor, when you get the real one.
- There is a luckstone at the bottom of the gnomish mines.
- The name of the owner of the vaults (the hidden rooms full of gold found randomly throughout the dungeon) is Croesus. If you answer that to the guards if you enter a vault, you can take the gold safely. Mind, a vault may contain a portal to Croesus's very well defended palace, which is both a source of great wishes--and a great risk...
- In vanilla Nethack, gray dragons are magic resistant, and silver dragons have reflection. Thus gray dragon or silver dragon scale mail can be highly desirable. I usually choose gray, so I don't need a cloak of magic resistance or the weapon Magicbane to resist magic. However, as a wizard or other person wielding magicbane, I'd probably choose the silver. You make dragon scale mail by wearing dragon scales and then reading a scroll of enchant armor.
- Engraving (#-E) the word "Elbereth" on the floor makes it a square verboten to most monsters--they will flee from it, so if you write "Elbereth" on the floor and stand there, most (note MOST, not ALL) monsters will run away. Over time, the engraving will expire. If you "write in the dust" it will fade very quickly. If you "carve into the floor" -- with a hard gem like a diamond or a weapon (this will dull the blade) or a wand of digging -- the engraving will last longer. You can also "burn" words into the floor with wands of fire and wands of lightning. Note you can't do anything else while you're writing so a monster can attack you while you're doing it, so I tend to write "El," then "add to the engraving" to add "ber" and then "eth", repeating as needed. You can write Elbereth on the floor as many times as you like. A scroll of scare monster when dropped on the floor has the same effect as Elbereth.
Advice specifically for archeologists and priests (I ascended the former and near-ascended the latter):
- The key thing for them is they both need to boost their AC fast, as they don't start with a lot of protection. Priests have an advantage that they start with a robe, which reduces spellcasting penalties due to wearing armor, so whatever armor you find, pick up and wear it until you can find good nonmetal armor. If you find scrolls of enchant armor, use them (I often try to "Save them" for a better piece of equipment and then die of low AC).
- For archeologists: until you find a better one, use your pickaxe as your main weapon, not your whip. Pickaxes are slow but do good damage, and archeologists can actually become not only proficient in them, but go up to expert weapon proficiency. Archeologists can get expert weapon proficiency in sabers -- keep an eye out as you may find them in the gnomish mines (often the guard captain has a silver saber--don't attack him yourself for it, but if you have a powerful pet who decides he looks tasty, let him go after him). Silver sabers are an awesome weapon as they can hurt lots of creatures, and there's a magical saber you might get called Grayswandir that is good for you.
- Good priest weapons are hammers and maces, as there are some magical/artifact versions of those that are decent. Priests can't use daggers well, but do gain proficiency in most other ranged weapons. Both priests and archeologists can gain decent proficiency in unicorn horn, which is a decent, if two handed, weapon.
- For both, early game, you're weaker than you think, so keep your pet alive, stick close to it if you can, and let it help fight for you.
- Archeologists are actually quite good spellcasters, so keep an eye out for spellbooks and practice spellcasting. You may not do it at early levels if you're needing to rely on metal armor for AC, but bear it in mind for later levels.
- Priests of course are also good spellcasters, and you are going to want to play them as more casty than you might play a D&D cleric, especially at higher levels.
- Priests can auto-id blessed/uncursed/cursed so USE THAT and use whatever useful equipment you can find. Put on rings, etc. One of the things I find most challenging about the game is being able to identify stuff without killing yourself, so priests have a huge advantage there.
In case any one is interested but unaware, after many years, the official Nethack (not forks like UnNethack or SLASH'Em) has been updated from Nethack 3.4.3 to Nethack 3.6*. The most recent patch is 3.6.2 which the devs say will be the last of 3.6* (but they also said that about 3.6.1).
There have been a few changes--not revolutionary ones, but some tweaks to game balance and additional variation to gameplay (I noticed on a recent run they've changed up the appearance of some of the levels of Gehennom for example). Some minor changes from other forks have been brought in, like the possibility that Minetown in the Mines will be replaced with Orctown.
I've been playing this again, and been very rusty but slowly getting back into the swing of it. Note to self: do not begin Ascension Run when very sleepy. I was playing, kept pushing past my bedtime because I had gotten to the bottom of the dungeon... then got the Amulet of Yendor *yawn*, started heading back up... on the way nearly killed myself by eating something while satiated (a combination of bad judgement and pressing the wrong button) and fell into water about four times, before I realized I was too tired to keep going and saved. I returned to my game later, got all the way up to level 1... and realized somewhere along the way, I'd lost my Amulet of Yendor (likely the Wizard stole it and I didn't notice). So I think I have to go all the way the frick back down to Gehennom and get it again. I'm half-tempted to quit (especially as I've lost a bunch of AC to bad luck/planning). But I'm still soooo close.