Tuyena's page

Yes you're more than welcome to share them.

Z frowns at Jones and sets her book down, pushing it aside and other yet unopened ones such as, To Tame an Orc, Jacque Pierre's Risqué Encounters with Golarion's Wildest Women and So Your Half-Orc Lover was Struck by a Half-Blood Extraction? How to Survive and Thrive.

Z sighs heavily, "Useless woman."

"Have a seat." she says to everyone.

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Also thank you Rynjin, I now picture everything Sledge has ever said in a ridiculously heavy Cajun accent.

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Your stench offends Lord Tzeentch, your association with puny casters offends the Blood God, and your lack of mammaries offends Prince Slaanesh, consider realignment to Grandpa Nurgle.

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Well, the monster did kind of basically kill a character, it's not like it put Amanorm to sleep, or stunned him, etc and then waited to see if we would join him in attack, or try to reason with us.

Even if my buddy walked up to a guy and punched him for zero reason, if said guy then pulls out a gun and guns him down, I'm still going to have a problem with it.

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thegreenteagamer wrote:

Page 50! Bulldozer never came back as someone new after he died?

So that's the last time anyone dies? At the rate you were going early on, I'm surprised.

Shut up, you idiot. You're gonna jinx me. Now I'm gonna last maybe two pages and then turn into some kind of a wight or something.

I'm not saying you called it... But you called it.

"Well, first are we talking in terms of speed, or time? Beryllium is a metal, I know that. Things cry when I burn them. Beryllium has a high melting point. So I must be burning something that's at least partially resistant to fire."

"A Lilac Star sounds like some unfortunate euphemism that Amanorm would use, but I'll instead go with it meaning a star fish, they can be purple."

"Since I've yet to burn any fire resistant snails, nor have we seen a purple star fish, one must assume that the orbital declension must take quite some time."

"I would wager a guess at around twenty three years. Give or take."

Z shrugs with her arms and looks at everyone else.

"That math seems solid, yeah?"

Get rekt various members of a religious sect different from my own*

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Indeed, the Death of Dozer ushers in the long and prosperous Era of the Bickering Amigos.

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The majority of these changes will be flatly ignored at my table.

Half part because some of the changes are just wholly unnecessary, and the other half because in their attempt to break something, they break other things all together that had nothing to do with what they were trying to prevent. What a headache.

This is a response to Logan's recent post where he said that Warlock Talents were being made weaker to compensate for the fact that they have spells.

I wanted to make a post to illustrate how this is the exact opposite of what should be done.

To do so, I will be using the example of a Magus as if he were picking talents like a Warlock would.

So the Magus sits down to plan his character and pick his talents. He can choose up to 9th level spells if he invests all his talents if he wants to into it, and pick up a few bonus feats along the way. (Wizard)

However, the Magus notices that by giving up his 9th level spells he can get Spellstrike and Spell Combat, and he reasons, hey that's pretty good, I'd still have 8th level spells and be able to cast them through my sword, that's boss.

BUT then he sees Arcana and he's like, hey hang on, if I sacrifice my 8th level spells I get all these extra abilities that I can activate and I get then throughout the leveling process? Well id only have 8th level spells for a short while anyways, let's get that too.

Then he sees oh cool, I can cast in light armor at first level and get martial weapon proficiency? Then it scales up to casting in heavy armor and all I give up is 7th level spells? Let's do it!

The result is the Magus gives up power to get different but also powerful tools at his disposal.

Now. Let's look at the Warlock. He is automatically giving up that access to 9th level spells too. Also to 6th level at a minimum. Then, on top of that, Logan wants us to be able to make a weird caster if we want to as well, maybe only 3rd or 4th level spells and then flavor in with other abilities to make our own creation.

The problem arrives is that the available talents already aren't in the same power level for the Magus who gave up 3 spell levels to be awesome. But then it's asked of us to want to give up even more then that. If that is the case, then the talents need to be extraordinarily strong to incentivize us to do so. The weaker the talents are the more spell levels don't feel like a choice, and like mandatory selections. But also without the massive compensation bonus that classes like the Bard, Magus, and Inquisitor get in return for making that sacrifice.

Yeah, pretty much what Thrawn007 and Tuyena said. Bolts where the major change and the changes meant I didn't have to test them. Before the bolts could power through low level resistances but with the dramatically lower damage, even multiple attacks end up dealing less overall damage. In essence, the player is forced to take more feats to gain extra attacks just to end up with a lower total damage than before.

Pretty much a step back. To make it viable the damage has to go up and/or a resistance bypass ability has to be added.

Let's also mention too as much as we all want Mystic Bolts to be awesome, it alone isn't going to contribute to meaningful spell caster talent sacrifices, you may *delay* your spellcasting options, but you're not going to abandon them for Mystic Bolts because it and all other talents just aren't strong enough by comparison.

Mystic Bolts needs to be good. But so too do the other Warlock talents, or the class will just be a 6 level spell caster with Mystic Bolts and Arcane Striker and that's it. Which if that's what's desired, then so be it, I will probably play one at some point.

But if the goal was to make this in-between caster who could sacrifice spell levels and have meaningful choice available to him, then we're a long ways off.

As I mentioned in another thread a multitude of classes can go four levels of Warlock for Mystic Bolts and then be a better Warlock from that point on then an actual Warlock.

That's you're problem there Logan, I want to be a noncastery Warlock? No problem, go four levels into it and grab Tattoo and Mystic Bolts, and Inquisitor here I come. Or Rogue. Or Warpriest. Or Paladin.

The Warlock does not reward you for investing into the class, and since so few talents are actually good besides the spellcasting ones, then you have very little reason to use the class as anything but for dipping for the two talents you want.

I think I agree with Thrawn, if spellcasting is limiting the power of the talents, then spellcasting becomes a tax, because it is far an away the best option.

The more desirable the talents the more options the Warlock will have because then you can choose to run a 4 spell level build etc.

If you're consigned to making spellcasting the best, then just give it to them.

If you want make strong choices that can actually challenge for talent slots then you need to make the other talents stronger, not weaker by comparison.

Tuyena wrote:

You know what's really good about Warlock? That after I take 4 levels of it, I can then go 16 levels of Magus, and be everything the Warlock would have gotten from lvls 4 and higher, for free, and THEN way more.

16 Magus / Warlock 4 is a BETTER WARLOCK than a 20th level Warlock. Do you see the problem?

I'd argue you wasted 2 too many levels on Warlock in that build. So yes, I see the issue.

I'd say your and my own definition on what makes a build are two worlds apart.

Let's do a fun thought experiment. Let's list all the classes that could use Mystic Bolts better than a 20th Warlock shall we? Should be fun.

Warlock - 1d6+10+(2d6(Evil?))

Samurai / Cavalier - 1d6+1+16 - Static Damage beats dice rolls. Higher to-hit too. Winner.

Magus - 1d6+1+Touch Spellstrike (No arcana anymore to do this?) Winner.

Rogue, Ninja, Vivisectionist - TWF Sneak Attacks against Touch? Winner.

Paladin - 1d6+1+16 - Smiting Touch attacks? From Range? Winner.

Ranger - 1d6+10+1+Quarry - FE against Touch and Quarry? Auto hit? Winner.

Slayer - 1d6+5+1+Quarry+Sneak Attack - Winner

Fighter - 1d6+1+(Weaponmaster(Weapon Training)(Since it can pick anything))+Greater Weapon Spec+Dueling Gloves? Winner.

Can I keep going? I could.

Warpriest - 2d6+1+Weapon Specialization+Sacred Weapon+Divine Spell buffing? Winner.

Inquisitor - 1d6+1+GREATER BANE+Divine Spells+Judgment - WINNER.

You know what's really good about Warlock? That after I take 4 levels of it, I can then go 16 levels of Magus, and be everything the Warlock would have gotten from lvls 4 and higher, for free, and THEN way more.

16 Magus / Warlock 4 is a BETTER WARLOCK than a 20th level Warlock. Do you see the problem?

1) The Slayer is better than the Avenger could ever hope to be in its current form, in any combat style. This isn't even remotely debatable.

Suggesting otherwise at best shows a lack of system mastery, and at worst is deliberate disingenuity.

2) In order for the terrible lack of power to be made up by the social aspect they'd need be practically walking social Dues Ex Machinas, and as it is other classes who don't give up power to be social are better than them at it. Bards, Rogues, Sorcerers, Investigators, Inquisitors can all be as good, and usually BETTER in social interactions.

3) Disguise, Disguise Self and Alter Self can all do what the Vigilante can do pretty much to a Tee. And the one thing they do get, Immunity to scrying isn't even useful. I'll demonstrate for you.

I am a powerful and vengeful lich. I want to find that blasted vigilante.

Hmm I can't find him for some reason? What about his other three friends? Oh there they are! They have some random guy with them too. No biggie, I'll kill him too, that should draw out the other guy from hiding.

Play test experience tells me that he needs higher damage boosts, or a means to bypass DR.

Mark's stalker thread has officially unofficially added a new talent that allows the avenger to select one stalker talent.
That helps slightly.

Definitely needs something other than fighter feats for damage though. Sadly, the stalker by far surpasses the avenger.

Sadly the Stalker itself isn't so hot.

The whole Vigilante class feels like it was meant to be a Stalker that could pick from any of the talents across all the classes. But someone at Paizo said no go, and they broke the class into 3 classes. But then they said, we'll we need a fighterish type too I suppose.

So then they broke all the talents up across these classes and filled in enough uninspired generic filler to call them all a class. When it's really obvious Stalker is the only one that had any forethought.

Don't like it at all. Instead I want to see other options worth passing up spellcasting for. If that option doesn't exist, then the class has failed.

I'm going to say the same thing I did in the Avenger area to you, I have to work with what I'm seeing, which is very little. Its pretty much set in stone now that you're going to be maliciously taxed for Spellcasting.

Its also been shown that pretty much all the creativity in the talents went to the Stalker. If this is what we're getting, I'm just trying to lessen the sting.

I think combining them would make those talents must haves, and must haves make for bad options.

They're already must haves, and they aren't showing any signs of going away. If anything this gives you MORE options as you gain effectively an additional Talent by not taking the already mandatory Mystic Bolts (If you didn't take this why were you going Warlock, it's literally their thing)

I had the idea just now, with the current unhappiness with both Mystic Bolts and Spell Casting for Warlocks, what if we merged these two abilities?

I propose the following:

Warlocks gain Mystic Bolts with their Arcane Training II. With this it deals purely 1d6+2 damage of the element of your choice, chosen at the time of taking the talent. It retains its current iteration of functionality.

For each additional Arcane Training rank taken thereafter, from Ranks 3-5 Would unlock another Elemental type, and increase the damage of Mystic Bolts by 2.

So 1d6+4 at Arcane III

1d6+6 at Arcane IV

1d6+8 at Arcane V etc.

Upon reaching Arcane Training VI I would like to see them offered Force or Sonic damage as a type, in addition to completing their damage out at 1d6+10.

I think this makes taking Arcane Training feel less of a sucker punch by getting additional functionality beyond just being taxed for spells, and also alleviates some of the problems with Warlock Talents being so scarce, in addition to helping Mystic Bolts overcome its current lacking ability to deal with energy resistance.

What do you all think?

Lets be honest though the HD doesnt need to change as this is just a more versatile rogue minus the rogue abilities. Batman was still weak in that his armor couldnt stop a sword thrust through it and he was still just a man so if he got stabbed pretty sure he was going down.

You want more free abilities for a class that already gets quite a bit at first level.

Dual Identity
Seamless Guise
Social Talent
Specilization granting your first Vigilante talent
Full Martial Weapon Proficiency
Medium Armor
and 6+Int Skill Points.

I like the idea that you need to spend talents on the spellcasting, makes you truly specialized. for example I would say Super man is a 3rd level caster, Focusing more on strength and speed rather than Magic. Doctor Strange is a pure 6th level spell vigilante as he is some what weak.

The Stalker's d8/d4 SA dice is in line with the Knife Masters SA dice. Both require a specific tool/mechanic for it to work and can still get it all the time but at a reduced effect.

The fact that they gave the Avenger a Full BAB should be enough to satisfy you as their intent for this class was to be a hit from the shadows Hit and Run type class in all specializations. if you think was supposed to be a pure Martial class you people are all crazy and I think your stuck on the fact that each specialization is its own type of class. Avenger=Martial, Stalker= Martial/ROguish, Warlock=Arcane, Zealot=Divine. now while thats how they built them the class as a whole it more of a Skill Monkey/Utility class and falls into none of those other categories.

Thus I see no other adjustments needed for this class.

If you think people are going to opt into playing a worse fighter then I don't know what to say. If an Avenger is supposed to hit and run from the shadows show me all these great talents I get to do so. They don't exist. Suckerpunch and Armor Skin doesn't suddenly make you some great assassin.

The class is not a skill monkey, the class is not a utility class, unless you make it that way. Having 6+int skills doesn't suddenly make my Avenger comparable to an Investigator. Ever. He's not even comparable to a Slayer.

Warlock and Zealot you could argue. Stalker is still just a worse unchained rogue with some neat tricks, and Avenger is just a bad fighter, which says something given the current state of fighters.

Since we're on the subject let's talk Avenger though.

Key problems with Avenger, small hit dice, poor offensive capabilities compared to other full BAB classes, lacks spells, lacks utility, has a bad save in Reflex, lacks any defensive options.

Fixes:

At level one by taking Avenger you should upgrade to D10 HD and trade Fort for Reflex for save progression.

Avenger shouldn't get spells but look at what other classes get because they don't have them. Rage and Rage Powers. Challenge and Orders. Weapon and armor training. Martial Flexibility, Flurry, and Ki nonsense. What does the Avenger get?

Other classes that are full BAB have ways to modify their ability to hit and amplify their damage. Smite, Favored Enemy, Etc. Again Avenger gets nothing.

Ergo, allow Avengers access to Challenge. The idea of a masked vigilante challenging his Nemesis is iconic and helps fix their damage woes.

In other areas the Avenger talent are just largely uninspired and makes it feel like a cheap fighter knock off or don't sufficiently provide enough power, how is suckerpunch unchanged from its first incarnation? It's a trap talent. Less of that, more real choices that don't sacrifice effectiveness for thematics.

We haven't play tested the round two characters yet, between fanciness with new mystic bolt, and the options Divine Power provides, I think trading off some talents for magic is a good deal.

I don't want the stalker and avenger to cast spells, some of us like our heroes to be mundane but still be capable of doing cool stuff. I'd happily see the Avenger get some defensive boosts, and some more damage boosts, but I'd like to see him get some flexibility too. Some riders on his attacks, or strikes similar to an Unchained Monk.

I'm one of the few people doing high level Avenger testing, so I'm not sure why you're trying to explain to me about Mundane heroes?

I can be a primarily martial player, be playtesting the Avenger at high level and still recognize that Warlock and Zealot should just get their spells. Avenger and Stalker should be buffed to compensate.

If stalker and avenger aren't getting spells, then I don't want Warlock and Zealot to get the same number of talents AND spells for free.

They should. You don't spite two specializations because one of the other specializations is subpar and the other is just plain bad.

Focus on building Stalker and Avenger up, not keeping Warlock and Zealot down.

Posting intrest- However, I'm wondering- A nice old grandmotherly figure, smiling and welcoming. She rides on a carriage led by two skeletal horses. Basically, a genuinely affable old lady who just wants to help the group, but also likes to animate the dead. Would that mesh with the group at all?

Until they find out and kill you.

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Yeah just slap it into Startling Appearance.

Why exactly can you not have the same theatrics as a Slayer?

Those aren't part of the Vigilante class, just because you were inspired to play a certain way, doesn't mean the option never existed in the first place. (And with any other class you don't need 50 rounds to be useful, or worry about getting caught in NPC mode)

Avenger is a fighter archetype that trades a feat, weapon training and armor training and access to Greater Weapon Spec. to get 6+int skills and psuedo pounce, that's it. That's all it currently is.

In simpler terms, it's a worse version of Lore Warden.

Any time you sacrifice spells for not-spells, you're losing.

He's healing him!...

And then he's going heal me...

OH MYYY GAHHHHHHHHHWD.

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Also what level is everyone else at? First level?

This question concerns me.

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What deities can we use? I thought about having a cleric of Wadjet traveling hoping to spread the ways of an Ancient Osirian deity to a foreign land. If I do get picked she would try to become the head priestess of the kingdom.

Whatever deity you wish you can worship.

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"Slaughtered them like they were beasts of burden, it would have been funny, if it wasn't so pathetic."

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I'm pretty sure they're all dead.

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I don't do stuff like that Gonzo, assuming a player forgets a scroll or a weapon somewhere assumes an adventurer is stupid.

Even a five intelligence Goblin isn't going to forget to pick up his arrows after a fight, why would a PC?

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"Thank you Darius...Please...Be gentle with me."

"You'll have to lower yourself in slowly, then I can wrap my legs around you."

Awkwardness +2!

Z gives Darius a wink then continues, "No but really, please don't let my arms touch the water."

That would be awesome, DM! And welcome to Hilda! Rage without me burning my rounds....I'm all about that!

I'm not saying we should take amplified Rage. But we should take amplified Rage.

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That's it, next fight. 15 trolls. I'm setting it up now.

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Yes it's torched and dead.

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Traveling through the southern lands of Rostland was an ardous journey but finally you have arrived at the sole outpost in the Greenbelt, Oleg's Trading Post.

Oleg’s Trading Post looks more like a run down fort and is surrounded by a wooden palisade that stands 10 feet high. At each corner of the palisade are 20-footsquare watchtowers, each armed with a run-down catapult left over from the site’s original use as a border fort. There’s one entrance through the palisade—a 30-foot-wide wooden gate.

Approaching the trading post you can see a man working on the roof of one of the buildings, while a woman observes him from the courtyard below.

Roll20 is now up so please join.

Roll20

Light'em up.

Hello everyone I am an experienced DM who is looking to start getting into PbP. As RL responsibilities have increased over the years I can no longer realistically meet up to do extended gaming sessions like I once could, but I still want to scratch that Pathfinder itch.

I'm looking for 4 to 6 players to join me in my endeavours.

If you're still interested feel free to apply and I can't wait to hear from all of you. I will be accepting applications up until December 20th.