I rarely post on these forums because I really do not have the time, but more importantly because invariably the discussion goes from sort of on topic to off topic to completely unrelated to the topic.

This discussion should be focussing on four items from what I can see. I may have missed something, but discussions about "Paizo not listening" or "You are a troll" do not belong here:

The issue I see are:

1) Switching APs from monthly to 4x/year hardcovers.
- I really don't have an opinion, hard covers are harder to open and lay out on a table, but will be less expensive to print and purchase, so probably a wash - and for people who run off of PDFs, probably no effect.

2) Elimination of Stat Blocs from the end of PFS Scenarios
- My opinion is above, I think that the monetary argument is limited at best since I do not believe these are even available in paper (so no less cost for printing), and if Paizo has a standard format for stat blocs (one of the goals of 2ed to the best of my knowledge), then this should simply be a cut-and-paste. In addition, many GMs (raises hand) use these extensively and removing is going to create quite a bit more work.

3) 2 Level Tiers
- Again, my opinion is posted above. While I suppose it will occasionally happen, rarely do I see the same 4-6 players at the same time at the same table every game with all characters in the same tight level range (people miss games), thus the probabilities are that there will be a range of levels and by reducing the span (tiers) for each scenario from 4 to 2, Paizo is making it much more difficult to accommodate all players.

- From a business point, this seems like deciding to open a restaurant and deciding not to have anything vegetarian (since only 5% order vegetarian) the end result is the any group with a vegetarian in their group will likely go elsewhere (thus losing far more than 5% of the business).

- I run a business and we accept some referral programs which pay well less than our regular rate. We keep these programs because we like to help people, but more importantly, if the person is happy, they will refer their friends and family, far surpassing any loss from that one discount client.

- The same holds here. If there is a Tier 5-6 being run and 2 friends have a 5, but the other is at level 4 because they were out last week, there is a good change that all 3 will not come to the game. Which could easily result in a table not firing.

4) 3 hour Scenarios
- It is hard to tell a good story in 4 hours. Making it 3 makes this way harder. It will take the same time to get everyone seated and introduced as a 4 hour session, and the same time for set-up and clean up. Thus, really it is closer to cutting the game from 3.5 hours of playing time to 2.5 hours. At higher levels, a single fight can take an hour or more (way more if a party makes foolish decisions), which means the non-combat part of a scenario will need to be very short if there is more than one fight (which is typical). If the decision is to design scenarios for 3 hours and eliminate the challenge point system, then it should be for a 5 person table (many do not have 6 people, even at GenCon, Paizo only schedules 5 person tables (most end up being 6, but 5 are scheduled as a base)). With 5 as a base, the "easy" would frequently be 4 people, and the "hard" would be 6 players (with the ability to adjust if everyone were at the high/low level end.

- In addition, as someone referenced above, if the goal is a 3 hour session, then every scenario should have an optional encounter/chase/influence section that can be added when games are scheduled for 4 hours to allow the party to have a more complete experience.

I have not had the chance to read all the above comments, but have scrolled through them. When I see these changes, all that I can think of is that Paizo has decided to hire some type of a management consultant who does not understand gaming in any way (or at least I hope so since the PFS change to a 2 tier system is going to really mess up gaming and only makes sense to me from a consultant who has decided that it will save a few hours having 2 levels instead of 4).

I have run a few scenarios, I am at about 210 games of PFS2 run at this point. We have a game at a local store which started with 3-4 players about 2 years ago. I ran every session for well over a year. We now finally have 3-5 GMs that run intermittently, which is a relief as running every week is tiring to say the least, and frequently have 2 and sometimes 3 tables.

The new 2 level scenarios create a system which makes it much more difficult to allow infrequent players to be able to play. At the store, we are usually running 2 and sometimes 3 tables once a week. With a 4 level/scenario range, we can have a 1-4 and a 3-6, or a 1-4 and a 5-8 or even 7-10. The 1-4 allows anyone newer to play, and also allows those infrequent players who have not leveled up a lot to play. It also allows anyone who does not have a character in another level range to be able to create a new level 1.

With the new ranges, we will either be running a 1-2 or a 3-4. For the high table, it will be a 5-6, or a 7-8, or a 9-10. So, if I want to run a high game, say a 9-10, then everyone who does not have a very high level character exactly in that level range is pretty much hosed, and either does not play that week, or has to play a 1-2, if one is running. This also has the effect of rather than 2 tables with 6 players in the high tier (say 2x7, 8, 2x9 and a 10), now you are either running a 9-10 with 3 players, or a 7-8 with 3 players (both hard core), but more importantly, if the 3 players want to play hard core, you have the additional problem of now having 9 players in the 1-2 table. Thus, unless a store is lucky enough to have extra GMs around, you are going to end up with 3 people not being able to play.

Regarding the removal of the stats blocks, which is a terrible idea (and really sounds like it came from a management consultant). If Paizo does not want to pay to print them on paper, that is their choice, but including them on a PDF, or as a separate PDF is a minimal cost since it should just be cut and paste from the monster core. When I run, I print all the monster stat blocks on paper so that I can have them in front of me. With rare occasions, most fights are at most 2 pages (if it is 3, then usually his is high points, so one page is not used), which are easy to flip through. If we don't have them at the end then, either I am flipping through 5 different pages on Archives of Nethys (for each fight which REALLY slows things down), or am scrolling through multiple pages (and books) of the bestiaries, NPC Core, etc, each time, or I have to spend extensive time prepping them (which probably adds 20-30 minutes to my prep time) by printing each monster from each encounter (which also is going to waste tons of paper since currently there are 2-4 monsters on each page).

In the end, if one of the "goals" of these changes is to shorten the playing time, by removing the stat blocks from the end is going to INCREASE the amount of time I take to run a scenario, and the extra time is not going to be fun role playing, but instead, it is going to be re-pulling up a webpage or PDF that I accidentally closed.

Unlike some people above, I do not plan on stopping playing or running, however, I may well cut back on how often I do run. The AP stuff is irrelevant to me, but the changes to the scenarios (both the 2 level range and the elimination of the stat blocks) is a terrible idea.

I agree with the intent of these changes, with one caveat.

We need to be careful of how much "latitude" is allowed. If some GM's are given free reign to modify things, the scenario is only going to be in name only.

For instance, adding the weak adjustment to a key fight in a scenario to allow the battle to feel exciting, but go faster by 2-3 rounds to save time is probably fine. Reskinning a herd of nightmares as unicorns, is probably going to so alter the feel of a scenario, that it completely destroys an author's intent. In other words, if there are not some types of limitations, there are GMs who will take this to the extreme, which usually makes a game unfun for players. (There are GMs I prefer to not play with because they did not allow the use of abilities and otherwise changed things).

I know there is some guidance in the "Must", "May" and "May Not" sections of the update, but I am still concerned about some GM's who if we give them a little leeway, are going to run to the end of the leash and then keep running to see how far they can drag you.

The most important thing is, make the game fun, while having a consistency among tables so that anyone can sit down at a table most anywhere and have fun. Carefully reading and understanding scenarios allows GMs flexibility to make on the fly adjustments if there is a phobia of some sort or time is running short. It also allows the GM to discern discrepancies and decide how to handle them rather than debating choices in front of players. As an example, several posts up, there is a question about climbing the mountain in 6-02 and how long it should physically take. But, in the scenario, the conclusion states it takes a few hours to return to the Lodge, and the players arrive in the evening. Thus, it is clear the Law of Fun (all players are master climbers) and the Law of Magic (something weird happened, so you hike fast), should always trump the Laws of Physics.

Hey all - sorry I went missing. I also got kicked off, and did not know how to get back on until a friend told me this evening. Will try to read up on the 40 missed posts before I go to bed tonight.

Hey - best job is being a Meteorologist, you pretty much screw up 50% of the time, and nobody cares.

Lysander Volpe wrote:

May all your rolls be better in this new year.

By the gods, I hope so!

Thus the reason I play casters - so far fewer rolls to screw up.

Xia will continue to carry Merlan so that he can cast and direct her from his new higher perch.

All - I apologize if I have been delinquent. Somehow the window with this game it it got closed, and have been really busy and totally forgot to check. I will try together caught up later tonight or tomorrow, and definitely by the weekend.

If I could draw half that well, I would be happy. My best drawings usually resemble a disabled stick figure.

Oooh - halfling soup. Sounds yummy.

Now I am confused. How would churches have put a hole in your radiator? Perhaps if you ran over the steeple of a very small church, but I really do not think that any normal size church is responsible for the holes in your radiator.

I liked the resealable sister parts, made for a whole different kind of inappropriate capitalism.

It's only a model.

Lol - first thing that came to my mind at "model" is the GIANT Stonehenge from Spnaltap. - And, I have no clue why.

Ok, going to try to get caught up. Work is killing me these days.

I would offer to draw something, but I am pretty sure the best you would get is a demented non-Euclidian stick figure.

Yeh - work has a nasty habit of getting in the way of fun.

Is it possible to drive someone mad if they are already there?

Sorry for the slow posting. RL has been really busy.

I am great at drawing. I can beat most 3-4 year olds at stick figures the majority of the time. That is about the end of my skills.

It seems to be random. I often forget, but usually try to copy all the text before hitting post on long posts, so that I do not lose everything. It has been doing this for years.

Did the now enlarged orcs move? I thought that Enlarge Person was a 1-round action, even from a potion. If so and they moved (I think that at least one did), they should loose part of their next round actions.

Remember, what takes you - a computer geek/techie/nerd/(other name for a gamer) - several hours, would probably only take a trained adventurer with full knowledge of their and their companions skills a few moments to figure out.

Xia can disarm magical traps. Her perception is terrible, so someone else will need to check to see if they can find one, but she is decent, +7, at DD.

Tilnar wrote:

Fiona nel Mare wrote:

Tilnar wrote:

For group decisions like this (i.e. - press on or not) -- my suggestion is to do one of:

- Tally the votes after 24 hours; or
- Go with the majority as soon as 4/6 have voted (unless it's a tie).

I'd recommend the latter.

Then, barring anyone objecting loudly to that approach in the next day or so, let's adopt that as our "official position" (tm) going forward.

I see what you did there...

His original post read "official position" (TPK), we are lucky he changed it.

If that was all from your phone, you are one seriously fast typer (or more likely I am now the older generation and just type slow)

Keep the wagon rolling! If I' start falling behind (in one of my famous 80 hour work weeks for example) I'll ask for a 'moment' of game time to catch up. ;)

Um - we don't have a wagon. But otherwise, I agree.

Speed is fine. Only tough when they are really long posts that I have to digest. I think we all know how others usually react, or will learn soon. Also, the quick posting is great when it is one person sort of on an aside, so that everyone else is not waiting for days.

Trust me, the quick pace is much better than some games where everyone is waiting for days for one person to respond to something.

As a side note, while Xia is generally not very useful, she can cast CLW 6 times if necessary - the joy of being an oracle.

Last I checked, Halfling was considered an appetizer by most IRC’s.

I am good with the forced march for 2 hours.

Ah yes, purify food and drink. One of those spells nobody ever seems to take or think of. One of my favorites. Especially when I have silent spell, so I can cast it with my hands under the table.

We did something to earn experience? Other than arrive late (if we ever do arrive) in Rustknol?

Good grief - work runs my life for a day and there are 18 IC posts. Yikes.

Considering the nature of the movie, might be better in cruddy You-tube vision, or on a 33 1/3 vinal vision, we need to bring that one back.

LOL!

You asked for it Braniac, Your getting the full Adventures of Baron Munchausen treatment now! :)

1988 (1989) movie, the studio made it a 'flop' on purpose. It is a brilliant gem of fantasy tale-telling, IMHO it is well worth the 1-1/2 hours of your life to watch it. I believe it is on Netflix.

And yes, that IS Robin Williams as the 'King of the Moon' going uncredited. The name used for 'King of the Moon' in the credits is Italian for 'King of Everything' :)

A truly awesome movie. Pseudo-Monty Python.

Took me two looks the second time as well.

I think you should reskin your familiar as a chicken and then explain that you have been delayed for the past several days as the chicken was distracted by corn than some farmer had spilled.

Somehow I totally missed the background skills, I will add 2 more. Probably going to go with Handle Animal (grew up in the wild) and linguistics (Aklo (she really should know the language of the troublemaking fey)).

My vote would probably be Slayer. Lots of skills, medium armor (doubt you would ever want heavy with the penalties, but mithral breastplate with the feat that reduces spall failure by like 10% would be a good combo at some point for better AC. Would also give you all the martial weapons, and as mentioned the favored enemy, or whatever it is called for a slayer, is nice, especially since you int should be so high that you will almost never fail a check.

Having been a Type 1 diabetic for nearly 5 decades and being formerly uninsurable without agreeing to work for a corporation that provides health insurance, I shall refrain from discourse regarding this matter.

Sheets look pretty good. My only thought is that the total in column B should probably be the sums of columns D, F, H, J, L, N & P. That way we know the total value distributed by the GM. When people move things to their character sheet, the items would be deleted.

I will think about things, but if we set it up right, Tilnar could add loot when we get it, and then we can divide it.

I was building characters for my sons (14 and 16, both are 1 session short of their first GM glyphs for 2ed - yes, we have the future of Pathfinder gamers). Keeping track of my 14 characters was impossible, let alone the half dozen each of them had, plus their friends, etc. Finally I gave up on PCGen, because it was just too slow on updating things, and I did not have the time to learn to program. So, yes, it was expensive, but I think in the end worth it for the 30+ characters I had to keep track of.

I have no clue why I have it, but apparently I do have the vigilante in HeroLab. Have no clue when I would have bought the Ultimate Intrigue pack, but apparently I did at some point. Who knew.

If you let me know what you want, I should be able to create the character. I have never exported to a campaign, so someone will have to walk me through that. If there are special options you are looking at, I might not have all of them, but we will see what I can do.

Nice - I will take max hp.

Ok all - working on my character finally. Think I am almost there with the concept here are the hp rolls.

hp: 2d4 ⇒ (4, 4) = 8

Tilnar wrote:

You're certainly still quite welcome, Tirion - I think we oracle could be an excellent addition - even a whimsical one. ;)

Wow. I just reread that. And this is why I don't like to post from my phone.

Type good do you - and Yoda does look like a fey.

Cool - trying to figure out a decent background. Think I have it pretty much figured out, just need the time to write it up now.

Hey all - somehow in my complete ineptitude, I forgot that there is more than the recruitment thread. Now that I found this, are you all still waiting for me to come up with a concept? Or do you already have a party. I really like the Apocalypse Mystery Oracle, except the revelations really suck (sad face). Thinking about the Whimsy Mystery. Yeh, not the most powerful, but seems like something to build on, and with all the personalityless characters I have seen being thrown around (Ranger? Shifter? Druid? Warpriest? Gnome? (okay, possessed gnome sorcerer might have some personality), I figure that a fey touched oracle with the wrecker curse (everything she touches turns to sh*t) sounds like fun.

If you all want me around, let me know and I will keep working on this. Have to run games Thursday and Sunday, but hope to have a concept before next Monday.

Hey all - posting here just in case. Trying to decide whether I have time for a pbp campaign. Had a great time playing with Tilnar in multiple games a long time ago. I have not played 1ed in almost a year - although with 5GM stars, I played enough that I can probably remember. (Yeh, I actually have 5 stars, Paizo does not appear to know how to check the box to have the 5th star show up on my avatar). If I play, it will probably be something simple. I have had a lot of fun playing oracles in recent times, so that is an option. Will have to see what else people are considering.

Does anyone know why when you record one of the AP books, it only registers 8 Prestige rather than the 12 Prestige it should? I input it as 12 Prestige, but only see 8 on the system. I went in to edit it to change it to 12 prestige, and after saving, it still says 8 prestige.

I am wondering about the time slots. Is there any chance for a wider range of time slots? Right now on Warhorn there is a bunch of games posted for 3pm to 8pm Eastern Time, I believe noon-5pm PST. Using these times, it makes it very difficult to play games during the week, or for 4 of the 6 days, if one works. Assuming there is a late session, this would go from 9pm-2am (6-11 PDT), really late.

I know that it is impossible to satisfy everyone, but since this is online, perhaps running two separate sets of time slots (games starting every 3 hours) might be a wise choice so that almost anyone in any time zone would be able to participate in at least 1-2 game a day.