Spacelard's page

Take the biggest offending dice to one side.
Line up all the others so they can see it.
Smash it with a hammer and blow torch the remains.
Tell the surviving dice that is what will happen to them if they don't buck up their ideas.

I use this for all alignment discussions in my home game and all my players have the link.
LINK

What put the final nail in the coffin was two things he said and did at this time.

1) he was so obsessed with his character he literally got a tattoo of her, not a little one either. He liked to boast about it.
2) he wanted to commission someone to draw his character but decided he can’t, when asked why he said he was “worried they would fall in love with his character” and he would end up violently assaulting them or worse. No rational thinking was able to get through to him when we tried to explain how ridiculous this was. But he was serious. Deadly serious.

So yeah, we had enough of it for the final time and this just put the nails in the coffin.

Seriously?

Sounds like a problem with the player.

'It's what a chaotic evil character would do' is just ridiculous and frankly somewhat immature.

If there isn't a very good reason to keep him around just inform him that his 'game style' doesn't fit and boot him.

For every tool player I'm sure there are a dozen decent ones. Don't waste your time on him.

Playing out consequences with this type of player won't end well, nip it in the bud now and just say he isn't welcome to the table.

It's from the Monster Codex and it is in the section about duergar. That's enough for me to disallow it as GM.

Lots of Orlanthi and Humakti RQ Ducks...

One time, in a 1st Edition Campaign, we were being attacked by Dinosaurs, and the Magic User started casting Flavor Cantrips on each of us so we all tasted like Chief Wiggum's Guatamalan Insanity Peppers.

Prestigitation isn't that powerful any more, but I did use it once to chase down a thief who tried to lose us in a crowd: I turned him blue.

Standard tactic for my Wizard, if running from something, is to make another PC smell like bacon :D

I have been using 'CoC' for Druids, Clerics, Rangers and Paladins since 1st ed. Even the Thief had a set of guild rules.

Every time individual CoC were drawn up between Player and GM working together with the RP aspect of the Code being first and foremost and the game restrictions secondary.

No one opted out, people found it useful for RPing their PC and eliminated 'GOTCHA!' moments.

Using a CoC for RPing and adding depth to a PC is good.
Using a CoC for restricting a PC's choices in a negative/d**k way is bad.
Everyone must be involved from the get-go.

soulnova wrote:

Yeah, just versus evil.

mind control immunity vs just evil would probably be around 1500 gold

Yeah half the cost to just evil and might as well reduce it again to work only for your PC race/class/weight/whatever...

The reason I say no to custom items...

As a player and GM one of the stand out differences between PF and 1st ED was how player friendly things had become. The lack of 'real' SoD, poison which would rarely kill, no 'energy drain', no 'age a year when you're Hasted' etc.

Then I realised Gygax hated PCs. Everything was about the GM trying to suck fun out of the game while trying to make sure everyone had fun. Want to Identify something? Sure, that's a 100gp pearl gone and you get one ability. Want to bring someone back from the dead? Sure scratch off 2 points of CON and 10Kgp.

Nah, leave these things in the past where they belong.

EDIT: That said, when that Ancient Red Dragon had 88hps things were a little easier!

...you're working out the Ranger's 'to hit' and 'damage bonus' before the Ranger's player does. Every. Single. Encounter.

Starting an alignment thread is Chaotic Evil

There is a way to handle this in game already.
Its called a negative modifier. Ignore what the player says, enforce the modifier.
Anything else is house rule territory.

That said...
Yeah, I get royally pi**ed off with people pulling that cr*p and then their PC starts acting like a tactical/intellectual super-genius with the vocabulary and wonderful personality of Casanova...

GM changes scenario because *reasons* possibly because players have played/read/GM'd said scenario. Either way it wan't a 'My GM messed up a rule', the GM reasonably changed something, it wasn't/might not be an error.

Player 'complains' about this after double checking the 'error'.

My advice. Leave it well alone, and stop reading/checking the scenario.
IMO, it is extremely poor form.

(Reads thread)

102: Hey, I've seen this great thread on the forums which has given me some ideas for the next few sessions.

102. "Huh? Oh, sorry, distracted. I've been listening to a lot of Sisters of Mercy. Anyway, on to the new campaign. It's a rainy night in Ustalav..."

Another Mission... :P

Handy Haversack. 2000gp
Remove items as a move action which doesn't provoke AoO.

102: Everyone, here is a CD-ROM of all the new house rules I'll be bringing next session...

Don't need a 'good' goal to have 'good' PCs working for a lich.

Have the Flames card drawn next. The major Devil sets its followers onto the lich. In Golarion that means Cheliax starts sending out Hell Knights as well as the lil' minor devils running around trying not to be the BBEG's dinner. As well as anyone that has done a dirty deal to get a bit of power.

Have the PCs hired on to put the hurt on these soldiers of an oppressive LE regime, yada, yada, yada.

102: Tonight let's have a discussion on alignment...

I used this when I ran the Carrion Crown AP. Seemed a lil' clunky at first but once we ran through a few encounters things became smoother. Works quite well IMO.
Scroll down for Version 2.

Shub Niggurath.

I am assuming that this convo is all about the Knowledge checks needed for the lovely bits of 'fluff' information that players may pick up in a scenario.

No scenario (that I have read) is dependent on a such a check, they can be completed with all fails. The only thing they give is background, at best a slight clue on the motivations of the BBEG. All they really do is heighten the enjoyment of the players...I love that look of 'Ah! That's why!' on the player's faces when something pulls together, it makes it worthwhile to me.

I want the players to have a way in game to have access to some of the cool background that I as a GM have and the in game Knowledge checks is a way to do this. We aren't playing Call of C'thulhu.

Reading 'or' as being noninclusive limits the enjoyment for players, it doesn't reward players for having a breadth of skills. I strongly believe that PFS scenarios don't do that nor is it the intent of the designers.

This does need clarification, however, as some GMs do see 'or' as being noninclusive.

Roll all and any skills as listed in the scenario.

What does it add to the game to restrict it to, say, just one of three options?

Does it add or subtract from the overall experience of play allowing all options available to those who have invested in a range of skills?

Just tell new players the horror of 1st ED where it cost you 10K, two points of constitution and you (constitution depending) still only had a 50/50 chance of making it or you could go see a Druid and come back as badger...

Anything you do will seem better.

Provides total concealment only.
The rules tell you what is permissible, in this case totally obscuring vision in a 50' spread...nothing else. No choking, no invisibility, etc. If it did it would be called out. It's Obscuring Mist in a bottle, it uses the same language, etc.

Your interpretation is correct.

Did you tell the sorcerer player about this houserule before they built the character or afterwards?

Alni wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

I can't sleep without it now. Not even naps.

Hope you get the new one soon :)

Thanks, Alni. The service I use is really fast. I ordered it this morning and I'll have it by tomorrow.

My electricity company have me on the emergency list in case of power outage. Any problems my road gets sorted as priority.

Yeah, took three years and the meds I was on were pretty harsh. All better now, thanks.

On the plus side they sent me in a very weird place which allowed me to write a really twisted scenario for Call of Cthulhu based around the King in Yellow which gave two of my table nightmares!

Seeker... Gives Perception as a class skill.

*sigh*
'I'm just playing my character'... Just kick them and move on.
Anyone who uses this line, probably with a smirk, doesn't deserve a second chance. From what you have said anything else would be wasting everyone's time.

Heh, speaking of deciding between A & B, no matter what I do my players will usually choose Action Q (something I totally didn't expect). And two of them are the kings of over-planning something. I just let them go at it one game to see how long it would take them to make a decision. They couldn't decide what the best way to open a non-magical, non-trapped, unlocked door was. It took nearly an hour before the Bard finally just walked up and opened the door. Nothing happened.

In a homebrew scenario I put what was an upturned bucket with some holes in it in the middle of a long empty corridor. The players wasted a whole load of resources and about half an hour real time on it.

I nearly got a slapping for that. And coffee rationed.

Skimmed most of the walls of text but the impression I'm getting is

Sorcerer does X damage 4 times a day = bad
Martial does X/2 damage all day long = okay
Because of Neverwinter Nights computer game...

Advice.
Leave major rules rewrites adjusting the game to how you perceive balance and use books as written.

I played a campaign with a wizard and the GM pulled the same tricks, upping numbers, adding templates, doing stuff to make a CR9 encounter against a group of 4x 9th levels grind and grind to the point of tedium. It is the only game I have walked away from because the GM thought that a CR9 encounter should somehow be a hard fight for a group of 4x 9th levels when it should be nothing more than a speed bump.

A CR13 encounter should be tough but shouldn't result in a PC death unless of bad luck/poor tactics.

GMs come unstuck when they allow 15 minute work days so groups of PCs blast through reusable resources and then rest/recharge. They become unstuck when the PCs have all the time in the world to buff.

I do see the OPs view (kind of) but the ways to counter it isn't a pile of houserules but a little tactical thinking from the GM and not allowing 15 minute work days.

EDIT: Sorry if this sounds snarky, I don't mean any offence. Its tricky getting ideas/thoughts down in flat text in a few short sentences.

IMO Remove Disease would only be effective on anything spread/caused by a vector. You can't catch cancer or diabetes so the spell is useless.

Restoration would counter the effects (stats damage) but that is all.

Regeneration might work, depending on what it is effecting.

Heal/Wish would remove the condition.

-from the perspective of a person with a degree in medical microbiology who specialized in vaccine/antibiotic manufacture-

And threads like this remind me why before allowing a player to take a Paladin as a PC they send me a copy of their Paladin's Code and we thrash things out before play begins. I try and include a half dozen things that will cause a Paladin to fall (in my view) also.

We then all have an expectation then on how each of us roleplay that particular Code. No 'GOTCHA!' moments.

Godsmouth Heresy has Esme the alchemical zombie sorcerer who is neutral and has a very sad backstory...
My players took pity on her and is now residing in the PFS Lodge at Magnimar.

If I pulled this trick at a table as a GM all my players would walk calling me a d!*k GM, complain here about me pulling such a douche move and I'd bet no one would disagree with them.

If you pulled this stunt on your players do you think they would be happy? Would they congratulate you on your awesome system mastery or walk out and think you're being an a$$hat?

If you wouldn't do it to the players they shouldn't expect to do it to you.

No...so many ways, no.

Spacelard wrote:

Can I ask why you think summon monster slows things down?

I play a Conjurer (Teleport) w/ Necro and Ench opposition, ha!
I always use summons to help out the party in a myriad of ways and don't find it slowing the game at all. However I am organised...

At one table a Druid was summoning, the player was disorganized beyond belief. They would spend ages flipping through the books to find stats, celestial templates, etc.

I have my favourite summons printed off at hand with the template and augment summon feat bits built in. Doesn't slow the game one bit.

Overland Flight is a game changer.

'However I am organised...'. Nice backhander.

Why I find it slows the game down, is that when a wizard casts this spell, they have to control all of the summons; Initiative, rolling attacks, saves etc. if you have multiple summons going it bogs down play. No reason other than that.

They all go on the caster's initiative not individual.

I am disappointed that this is not about a T-Rex giving up the predatory life to become a priest.

I thought this and was equally disappointed

Scrap the current campaign.
Start fresh with just Pathfinder Core rules.
Help the GM learn.

Why would a good ruler want a unicorn dead, those things are generally good natured things?

"I'm evil."
"Okay, go kill that good natured pretty horse."

Weirdest sounding royal audience ever.

Unicorns poop Skittles. Everyone knows that.

You're going to have exactly the same problem but this time in an Orc suit.

Talk to him. Tell him, politely that the way he is playing PCs is disruptive. If after one session he still acts like a tool politely inform him he is no longer welcome.

Don't try and solve an out of game problem with in game solutions unless you are a masochist.

Anger Nogar wrote:

showcase some ridiculous rule wordings

Fortunately about 99% of the "ridiculous wordings" were actually reasonable wordings when using common sense as the developers intended. Willfully choosing to purposefully twist rulings in ways they obviously were not intended is how we come to ridiculous rules wordings.

If you need a thesaurus and a law degree to explain your wonderful interpretation of RAW, you're doing it wrong.

OP: Surprised at this thread reaching 100+ posts?
I'm surprised it hasn't hit 500+ and locked because of flaming!

GMs go for the whole good/evil thing cause its perceived as being 'easy'. Still waiting to see a 'Paladin Falls because he done Chaotic' thread.

Like I said this sort of thing happens because everyone has a different view on what is on the Paladin's 'Don't do' list. That is why I always do a Code of Conduct for Paladins, Clerics and Druids to show a GM before play so we both know what to expect.

Spacelard wrote:

Again...what Faith is the Paladin and did the Player and GM come up with a Code of Conduct before play?

This is a good place to start, IMO.

The paladin's faith was in Iomedae and working for the Andorran's/silver crusade. Code of conduct wasn't discussed with the GM beforehand.

From the pathfinder wiki on iomedae's code:

"-When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender, but I am responsible for their lives.
-I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.
-I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my behavior."

Strictly speaking, the tenants of Iomedae would decree that a prisoner's life is my responsibility and that i'm honorable at all times. This would then decree that I spare her, and I did stabilize her the moment the fight was over. The tenants also say nothing about protecting npc's from certain death that might follow from my actions of showing mercy to an enemy. Would you then say I should let the crimelord go, knowing full well he will kill the innocents somewhere in the immediate future? And then justify it by saying my tenants specifically state I should be merciful but not to take into account the consequences of this?

Iomedae... Execute her, she has earned that from her past deeds. Go to the nearest Iomedae's Temple and Atone for the action. Still no 'Ha! Gotcha!' in my view. You wouldn't Fall at my table...good excuse for a lil' roleplaying if you ask me.

The biggest problem, in my eyes, with Paladins is that the Player and GM tend to have different views on what that paladin should look like. That is why I always encourage the player the talk through with me as a GM what they see as being The Code before play so issues like this don't crop up. You aren't the first player and you won't be the last!

If the GM is going to get all rules lawyer on you the Aspis Agent didn't surrender. She fell during honorable combat, you stabilized her to give a chance to repent, she didn't...Executed.

I hope your GM isn't just using this as an excuse for a power-trip or kick you in the nuts. Good luck.

Again...what Faith is the Paladin and did the Player and GM come up with a Code of Conduct before play?

This is a good place to start, IMO.

Sounds like a 'Ha, ha! Gotcha!' GM move to me.
BTW What is the Paladin's Code as worked out before play between GM and Player?
And if this is a PFS scenario what one is it?

EDIT: Just read the scenario. Paladin's DO stick to a Code of Conduct and it will vary from Deity to Deity. So it isn't a case of insta-fail it depends on the Deity. Does look like the GM is looking for ways to punish the paladin which is poor GMing IMO. Evil NPC commiting bad stuff gets executed for their crimes. No issue for me.
Go for the Fall and then Atone :D

Ive had to explain on numerous occasions to one of my younger players that Pathfinder Society =/= police and that he cannot lawfully arrest anyone in any town just cause he is a Pathfinder.

This...

GM ease of play. N/A Player

Synthesis of the story. 5/10 Book One was great but everything else seemed very rail-roady

Role-play friendly. 3/10 Okay but no matter what you did as a player everyone seemed to know what was going on. Seemed pointless as a player to try and do anything to derail the other factions as no matter what they'd still be there. As a player I was really annoyed that despite the death of the PF Gnome, hiding all notes etc leading to the city, etc we had six groups following.

Combat design.5/10 A few interesting combats but nothing outstanding.

Fun factor. 3/10 Bored with hack and slay Book 3, its the only AP I dropped out of. The other factions always being on your tail despite any precautions put in place made me feel that this was a GM V Player scenario (despite I am sure that wasn't the intent). If it stopped at Book 1 it would have got 10/10.

On the whole I was frustrated by the fact no matter what we did as a group everyone knew where to go. I felt railroaded and that our actions didn't matter. So we killed off a few NPCs in Book One, didn't let anyone near the secret cave, hid all notes that we made and EVERYONE still knows about where we are going and why? And then we end up in a city filled with random hack and slash... Not for me.

I'm trying to find in the SRD where it says having a low INT score means anything other than lack of skill points and penalties on INT checks.

If it doesn't anything beyond that is a houserule.

Trying to extrapolate IQ or anything else from that number is pointless, leads to arguments and wastes time.