Advice on 5th level spells

[Prux]

All,

This is a follow on from a previous post where I asked advice about 4th levels spells.

I'm running an 8th level Human Conjurer (Teleport) and I'm close to leveling to 9th.

I'm after advice on what 4th and 5th level spells I should use, and also a general sanity check on what I've got in my spellbook thus far.

I can't say that I'm a big fan of the 'summon' spells as I've found that they really slow the game down, so I'm keen to steer clear of those.

My opposition schools are necromancy and enchantment.

My spellbook contains the following spells

Wizard 1
Abundant Ammunition
Adhesive Spittle
Adjuring Step
Bed of Iron
Burning Hands
Comprehend Languages
Disguise Self
Endure Elements
Grease
Mage Armor
Magic Missile
Ray of Enfeeblement
Shield

Wizard 2
Acid Arrow
Bull's Strength
Continual Flame
Create Pit
Darkvision
Fire Breath
Invisibility
Protection from Evil, Communal
Scorching Ray

Wizard 3
Dispel Magic
Fireball
Haste
Slow
Spiked Pit

Wizard 4
Black Tentacles
Invisibility, Greater
Secure Shelter
Stoneskin

Any advice would be appreciated.

Prux

[avr]

Overland flight saves you combat actions. Teleport takes you and your party great distances - it can also take you shorter distances in emergencies, I notice you don't have dimension door. Life bubble is the best environmental protection. Fabricate can break the economy, or be used to have whatever mundane item you want on hand.

For combat use, one of the wall spells makes for good battlefield control, shadow evocation offers blasting and versatility (there's a little more to evocation than blasting), parchment swarm is a weirdly effective blast, icy prison takes one enemy out nicely.

Do you have any metamagic feats?

[Kayerloth]

Teleport, Wall of Force or Wall of Stone, Overland Flight, Passwall, Permanency, Cone of Cold, Hold Monster, Mages Private Sanctum would be on my short list (and sticking to CRB). Hard to go terribly wrong but I'd look to take spells doing damage types I don't currently do. For example, several fire spells so I'd add one that does something other than fire, a variety of barriers/battlefield shaping, methods of travel etc.. I put Mages Private Sanctum in there because you have Secure Shelter -> cast both and have an instant divination free place to plot errr plan you next move without snoops and/or teleport out to when engaging in a tactical withdrawal where the foes won't be able to 'find' you.

Not much Elemental Protections on your current list. I'd consider adding either Resist or Protection from Elements unless someone else within your party is always packing them.

No ability to see invisible creatures or objects. Personally I tended to have both See Invisibility and Glitterdust memorized. Both for dealing with foes and so I knew where the invisible party members were before dropping an Empowered Fireball or what not on their heads. I'd definitely be aiming to use Permanency for See Invisibility and Darkvision for starters asap.

[andreww]

Overland Flight, Overland Flight, Overland Flight

All day long flight is a game changing benefit.

Pit spells start to lose their effectiveness at this level as many things will fly but both Hungry and Roaming Pit can be really useful. If you find yourself facing a lot of outsiders then Dismissal is a strong pick. For battlefield control I would prefer wall of force to wall of stone although stone is far better for building your personal fortress.

In terms of extra spells to pick up I would recommend Emergency Force Sphere (a life saver), elemental body 1 (lots of movement options), dragon's breath (much more versatile direct damage), dimension door (great for your party, you don't need it obviously), arcane eye or prying eyes (great for advance scouting), communal resist energy (one of the best defensive buffs around), tongues (all round handy), daylight (when you need it you really need it), aqueous orb (very strong control), mirror image (your best defensive spell after overland flight), investigative mind/page bound epiphany (great for beating knowledge checks), see inivs (increasingly important), glitterdust (best level 2 conjuration spell) and heightened awareness (great init booster).

[Spacelard]

Can I ask why you think summon monster slows things down?
I play a Conjurer (Teleport) w/ Necro and Ench opposition, ha!
I always use summons to help out the party in a myriad of ways and don't find it slowing the game at all. However I am organised...

At one table a Druid was summoning, the player was disorganized beyond belief. They would spend ages flipping through the books to find stats, celestial templates, etc.

I have my favourite summons printed off at hand with the template and augment summon feat bits built in. Doesn't slow the game one bit.

Overland Flight is a game changer.

[Prux]

Spacelard wrote:

Can I ask why you think summon monster slows things down?

I play a Conjurer (Teleport) w/ Necro and Ench opposition, ha!
I always use summons to help out the party in a myriad of ways and don't find it slowing the game at all. However I am organised...

At one table a Druid was summoning, the player was disorganized beyond belief. They would spend ages flipping through the books to find stats, celestial templates, etc.

I have my favourite summons printed off at hand with the template and augment summon feat bits built in. Doesn't slow the game one bit.

Overland Flight is a game changer.

'However I am organised...'. Nice backhander.

Why I find it slows the game down, is that when a wizard casts this spell, they have to control all of the summons; Initiative, rolling attacks, saves etc. if you have multiple summons going it bogs down play. No reason other than that.

[Spacelard]

Prux wrote:

Spacelard wrote:

Can I ask why you think summon monster slows things down?

I play a Conjurer (Teleport) w/ Necro and Ench opposition, ha!
I always use summons to help out the party in a myriad of ways and don't find it slowing the game at all. However I am organised...

At one table a Druid was summoning, the player was disorganized beyond belief. They would spend ages flipping through the books to find stats, celestial templates, etc.

I have my favourite summons printed off at hand with the template and augment summon feat bits built in. Doesn't slow the game one bit.

Overland Flight is a game changer.

'However I am organised...'. Nice backhander.

Why I find it slows the game down, is that when a wizard casts this spell, they have to control all of the summons; Initiative, rolling attacks, saves etc. if you have multiple summons going it bogs down play. No reason other than that.

They all go on the caster's initiative not individual.

Multiple attacks I roll multiple D20s of different colours for each attack. Same with damage dice. Like I said...I am organised :D

[Kayerloth]

I didn't mention any 4th level spells as I was focusing on 5th level. But at 4th level I would want Dimension Door, Dimensional Anchor depending on the sorts of foes you face and nature of your DM's tactics, Arcane Eye, Resilient Sphere, Stone Shape (particularly if you go with Wall of Stone over Wall of Force) and again somewhat dependent on the nature of the campaign Scrying and Detect Scrying.

I'd likely pick up Fly to complement Overland Flight. One keeps you moving all day long the other gets your favorite melee companion up close and personal with any flying threats.

[Louise Bishop]

Look into Opposition Research to get Necromancy back.
Necromancy is such a good school it never makes it on my opposition list. So many Non-Evil spells that just rock so hard. False Life, Marionette Possession, Magic Jar, Ray of Enfeeblement, Fear, Command Undead, Enervation, Waves of Fatigue, Spectral Hand.
Some spells have effects even if the target makes the save. Which is very good for when they either just get lucky or have crazy good saves. Other spells may not even have a save. Enervation is a BBEG shredder with no save.

As far as good 5th Level spells:
Teleport
Overland Flight
Life Bubble
Cloudkill
Wall of Stone/Force
Icy Prison
Fickle Winds
Telekinesis
Permanency

A few spells you should look to Learn:
See Invisibility
Glitter Dust
Emergency Force Sphere (Absolute Life Saver)
Aqueous Orb
Mirror Image

[The Steel Refrain]

I'd also endorse Teleport (a school spell for you) and Overliand Flight as 'non-brainer' picks for 5th level. Life Bubble + Cloudkill (and Stinking Cloudfor that matter) is another nice combination.

[Jodokai]

As a Teleport Wizard Dimension Door is a waste of a spell slot for you, good to avoid it.

I highly recommend:
Overland Flight
Life Bubble
Echolocation - Blindsight to 40' will help in a lot of encounters

I like Firesnake since you can control the direction.

Some random spells at other levels that I like:
One of my favorites is Burning Hands. If you have Intensify Spell feat, and especially if you took the Sorcerer dip. 10d4+20, or a disarm and the chance of a 10d4+20 is a nice alternative to Magic Missile at only 1 level higher.
Mad Monkeys - So many conditions rolled into one spell (3rd level)
Resist Energy Communal - I like this better than Protection, less math and I feel more effective at higher levels. (3rd level)
If you're playing PFS: Feather Fall - Even at high levels I've found people don't always have flying.

[Nesterin Elbauthin Marikoth]

All of them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MU HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Nesterin (15th level conjurer)

[Decimus Drake]

Life Bubble was an absolute life saver in a past campaign and Overland Flight was immensely useful.

[jhpace1]

Can't go wrong with the abovementioned Teleport, Life Bubble, and Overland Flight.

Also consider that these popular spells are also going to be in virtually any evil spellcaster's spell tome that you, ah, "liberate" at the end of a battle with said evil spellcaster. If your GM is the "Monty Haul" type, get the APG/special spells "for free", knowing that in a game or two you'll be able to inscribe the standard Core 5th level spells from a liberated tome. If not, go for the must-have short-list above.

On the other hand, if you are a crafter, this is the time to pick up Secret Chest and make that bag of holding Type IV you've been begging for since Level 4 to no avail. Sending is the ultimate "talk to the expert you met back in town" spell. Or to contact a team member who just got kidnapped/captured/teleported away. (Dream is a 5th-level backup for this, with no word limit, compared to Sending.) Passwall is on your short-list if you are a utility spellcaster for the team, and you spend so much time underground you qualify for a discount at the dwarven taverns in town. Wall of Stone is the ultimate "I've got this!" when retreating from superior foes underground in a dungeon.

In conclusion, welcome to 9th Level! Now the fun begins.

[Kayerloth]

Jodokai wrote:

As a Teleport Wizard Dimension Door is a waste of a spell slot for you, good to avoid it. <snip> ...

Just curious why you say this? Granted he will have Dimensional Steps but you could burn through the allotted distance extremely quickly playing battle taxi or am I missing something? It carries the potential issues associated with using Teleport. Minimal usually but it's there since we are most likely not talking about an area that has been 'carefully studied or better' if used during a combat situation. There is no error involved in Dimension Door.

And while said mostly in jest I agree with the sentiment expressed by Nesterin. The versatility of having a spell book to chose your spells for the day and situation is the major advantage of playing a spell caster who preps/memorizes his spells. The bigger that spell book the greater you are leveraging that advantage.

[Jodokai]

Kayerloth wrote:

Jodokai wrote:

As a Teleport Wizard Dimension Door is a waste of a spell slot for you, good to avoid it. <snip> ...

Just curious why you say this? Granted he will have Dimensional Steps but you could burn through the allotted distance extremely quickly playing battle taxi or am I missing something? It carries the potential issues associated with using Teleport. Minimal usually but it's there since we are most likely not talking about an area that has been 'carefully studied or better' if used during a combat situation. There is no error involved in Dimension Door.

And while said mostly in jest I agree with the sentiment expressed by Nesterin. The versatility of having a spell book to chose your spells for the day and situation is the major advantage of playing a spell caster who preps/memorizes his spells. The bigger that spell book the greater you are leveraging that advantage.

Because at 1st level you have Shift for any personal teleportation you need to do, and dimensional step for passengers. I have a 15th level PFS Teleport Wizard, and I think I had to ferry the whole party once in all those levels. Most things were solved with a rope and a fly spell.

[Kayerloth]

I think we are talking about differing usage. I use/used Dimension door not to 'ferry' the party over a gorge, to the top of the castle wall or behind a door i.e. primarily to move, but most often to grab the equivalent in the party of AM BARBARIAN and DDoor him right on top of Mr High Value Target and let him go to town with a Full Attack. Unless you only get in one or two combat encounters in an adventuring day Dimensional Step is likely to be used up after a couple such encounters. Think this comes down to how often the OP is likely to use such maneuvers. The other advantage is having it in ones spell book doesn't necessarily mean it gets memorized but it's there for Scribe Scroll for when it the situation calls for such use.

Which brings up another question, slightly off topic, for me. Has it been made clear via FAQ or what not if Dimensional Step ability is like Dimension Door or the 'ability to teleport' literally like Teleport and hence carries the chance of mishap/error in arrival location based on familiarity?