# Quadrupeds Standing On Hind Legs

### Rules Questions

Hello,

During tonight's session, the following occurred. The enemy was flying 15 feet off the ground. A summoned dire tiger (10' long, 5' reach) was ruled unable to attack it.

The question was asked, "can the tiger get on its hind legs to get a single bite attack or claw attack?" Answer was no, that was not permitted.

So the question is... why not? I haven't found this in the rules. It is ten feet long and has five feet reach. Is this covered anywhere?

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Practisite wrote:

Hello,

During tonight's session, the following occurred. The enemy was flying 15 feet off the ground. A summoned dire tiger (10' long, 5' reach) was ruled unable to attack it.

The question was asked, "can the tiger get on its hind legs to get a single bite attack or claw attack?" Answer was no, that was not permitted.

So the question is... why not? I haven't found this in the rules. It is ten feet long and has five feet reach. Is this covered anywhere?

Actual height or length doesn't matter. It all depends on a creatures space and reach.

Being 15 feet off the ground puts the creature in the 4th square.

C (15 feet off ground, flying creature)
R (10 feet off ground, tigers reach)
X (5 feet off ground, tigers space)
X (ground level/touching ground, tigers space)

The tiger occupies the X spaces, can reach up to the R space, but the flying creature is beyond that.

^ pretty much that.

The Tiger takes up a 10 foot cube of space, and can attack anything within 5 feet of that.

If the Tiger had Lunge, it would be able to reach.

Have the tiger charge, make an acrobatics check to jump, and then use pounce to bring it down :)

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RealAlchemy wrote:
Have the tiger charge, make an acrobatics check to jump, and then use pounce to bring it down :)

*Winner*.

(Also, I'd go with cats and other supple-spined creatures such as weasels, but not horses or boars, being able to "stand" as a move action, transforming from a long creature into a tall one. They're not good at balancing upright, however, and need to continue expending the move to keep upright.)

Given that a Dire Tiger has a +6 Acrobatics, and the high jump rules... it couldn't make the roll. Which makes little sense to me, but eh.

Large occupies a 10 by 10 by 10 cube, and without reach the tiger can reach into the squares at 15 foot height, though the target would have high ground against the tiger. Dire tiger has a 40 foot move speed for a +4 to jump, so on a 10 the tiger is making DC20 to get 5 feet off the ground. Pretty sure the tiger can reach your target and treat it like a very large ball of yarn.

Personally, I'd probably allow a "Jump Attack" type deal. It's very cinematic and it is more difficult than an attack (you have to make a jump check and probably a Disadvantage Attack on it) so it seems fine. I've had some jump (down) attacks that were pretty cool, and I am generally pretty liberal with letting people do cool things; but it's not PFS and I like screwing with the game.

A tiger can leap to the top of a large elephant's head (up to 12 feet) to attack a rider. So in a fantasy setting adding 3 feet wouldn't be a stretch. Like Cattleman I'm a fan of the rule of cool and I'll bend a rule if an action can be made to look better or more cinematic. RAW is often a bit restrictive and keeps things from working out as cool as I'd like to visualize or do things.

Cattleman wrote:

Personally, I'd probably allow a "Jump Attack" type deal. It's very cinematic and it is more difficult than an attack (you have to make a jump check and probably a Disadvantage Attack on it) so it seems fine. I've had some jump (down) attacks that were pretty cool, and I am generally pretty liberal with letting people do cool things; but it's not PFS and I like screwing with the game.