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Latest Summary Post:

- Added Position #4 (this is changing the rules for masterpieces to not be affected by a bard's scaling action economy, so is probably out of scope of this FAQ, but it is included for completeness)

- Started a masterpiece list that the FAQ committee should definitely include in their analysis.

I think we are still looking for strong masterpieces. We need to include other interactions (items, feats, other abilities) as well.

**********************************************

Position #1 - Masterpieces are Bardic Performance are Masterpieces

Position #1 FAQ:

Masterpieces are bardic performances and follow bardic performance rules. If a bard starts a new masterpiece or other bardic performance, any existing masterpiece effect immediately ends. A bard does not need to spend a free action to maintain masterpieces, nor does a masterpiece effect immediately end if the bard falls unconscious, etc. The masterpiece effects linger until their duration expires, or until a new masterpiece or other bardic performance is started.

Example: If a bard has activated Triple Time on an ally, whenever they start to activate another bardic performance (or masterpiece), Triple Time wears off immediately, no matter where the ally is.

Position #2 - Masterpieces are unusual applications of the bardic performance ability. Any masterpiece that is completed and has a duration independent of the bard no longer counts against the maintained performance limit.

Position #2 FAQ:

Masterpieces can be separated into two categories: maintained and independent. A masterpiece is maintained if it requires the bard to spend actions in subsequent rounds or else the masterpiece will end. A masterpiece is independent of the bard if no action must be taken after the masterpiece is activated for the effect to continue for its entire duration.

A maintained masterpiece immediately ends if a bard starts a new masterpiece or bardic performance. An independent masterpiece does not end if a bard starts a new masterpiece or bardic performance. It lasts until its duration expires.

Example: If a bard has completed the activation of the Triple Time masterpiece on an ally, the ally retains the bonus even if the bard starts another Bardic Performance or Masterpiece.

Example: If a bard has the masterpiece The Depths of the Mountain activated, since it is a maintained Masterpiece, the bard must end that masterpiece if Inspire Courage is started.

Position #3 - Masterpieces are unusual applications of the bardic performance ability. They are not actual Bardic Performances.

Position #3 FAQ:

Masterpieces and Bardic Performances are independent of each other. They do not interact nor do they prevent or cancel each other. Both can be active at the same time, although they each require separate activation actions.

Example: A bard has Inspire Courage going in battle. The battle is almost finished, so the bard starts the masterpiece Triple Time while Inspire Courage is still up and running. Rounds of Bardic Performance are spent simultaneously on both abilities.

Position #4 - Masterpieces are unusual applications of the bardic performance ability. They are not actual Bardic Performances.

Position #4 FAQ:

Masterpieces and Bardic Performances are independent of each other. They do not interact nor do they prevent or cancel each other. It is not possible for a bard of sufficient level to activate masterpieces faster if they have a base activation of 1 standard action. Both can be active at the same time, although they each require separate activation actions.

Example: A bard has Inspire Courage going in battle. The battle is almost finished, so the bard starts the masterpiece Triple Time while Inspire Courage is still up and running. Rounds of Bardic Performance are spent simultaneously on both abilities.

Example 2: A bard has Inspire Courage going in battle. He wants to start Blazing Rondo, he has to take a standard action, but otherwise both inspire courage and Blazing Rondo take effect simultaneously.

***********************************************

Strong Masterpieces that should be included in the FAQ committee analysis.

Blazing Rondo: Haste Masterpiece
- Requires Level 7
- Costs level 3 spell known (e.g. replaces Haste spell known)
- Inferior to Haste spell effects (shorter duration, chained to bard, negative effect potential) until level 9
- Considered a strong combat boost at early levels as a move/standard action, since Haste costs a VALUABLE spell slot
- Power fades some as more level 3+ spell slots come online
- Power increases at level 10 giving +1 to hit and reflex about Haste
- Greatly reduces any other usage of Bardic Performance except in combat
- Level 13 presents swift/move/standard action haste that costs a Vanilla Bard (or the party) ~50k to duplicate

Battle Song of the People: Gives a feat to the party
- Requires: level 4 required
- Requires: or or half-orc race
- Costs level 2 spell known (or feat)
- standard action (levels 4-6), move or standard (level 7-12), etc.
- Feat Choice: Amplify Rage
--> would stack GREAT for a Skalds Rage Song
--> +4 STR and CON if adjacent/flanking to/with another raging ally
--> would not typically as powerful as adding haste to the party


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Chess Pwn wrote:

The biggest counter to the number 3 plan is skalds

Skalds have their raging song which counts as rage and battle song of the people gives a teamwork feat, aka amplified rage. If you're able to do both at once you're able to be giving +6 or more to STR and CON at quite low levels.

If we are okay with this then option 3 can be looked at more.
If this is not okay, we either need to not look at option 3 OR modify 3 somehow to not let this combo work.

Attempting to quantify this:

Raging Song:
- standard action (levels 1-6), move or standard (level 7-12), etc.
- +2 STR and CON (levels 1-7)
- +4 STR and CON (levels 8-15)
- +6 STR and CON (levels 16-20

Battle Song of the People: (level 4 required)
- standard action (levels 4-6), move or standard (level 7-12), etc.
- +4 STR and CON if adjacent/flanking to/with another raging ally

Combining:

Levels 1-3:
- Round 1: Gives +2 STR to party
- Assume: 16 CHA
--- 6 rounds per day max @ 1st

Levels 4-6:
- Round 1: Gives +2 STR to party
- Round 2: Gives +6 STR to party (IF they are adjacent or flanking)
- Assume: 16 CHA
--- 5 rounds per day max @ 4th
--- 7 rounds per day max @ 6th

Levels 7:
- Round 1: Gives +6 STR to party (IF they are adjacent or flanking)
- Assume: 16 CHA
--- 9 rounds per day max @ 7th

Levels 8-12:
- Round 1: Gives +8 STR to party (IF they are adjacent or flanking)
- Assume: 16 CHA
--- 10 rounds per day max @ 8th

etc.

Real Costs:
- Required to be a half-orc or orc
- 1 feat (or spell known)
- half the effective bardic performance rounds
- an extra standard action (or extra round to activate) from levels 4-14

Real Benefits:
- +4 STR (extra) to allies IF they are raging AND adjacent/flanking

The extra standard action (or round) to activate should give something good. Casting Haste or Good Hope at level 7 on round 1 is a better action. I don't see this as a broken example due to the costs involved.


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I tried to organize potential FAQ responses back in March (see below for the final iteration). (CLARIFICATION: Only one of the three positions below would picked. The other two would be discarded. Any other potential positions to add to the list?)

Mark mentioned that data may be needed, but it still boils down to very few positions.

What are the most grievous masterpiece vs. performance examples?

**********************************************************

Position #1 - Masterpieces are Bardic Performance are Masterpieces

Position #1 FAQ:

Masterpieces are bardic performances and follow bardic performance rules. If a bard starts a new masterpiece or other bardic performance, any existing masterpiece effect immediately ends. A bard does not need to spend a free action to maintain masterpieces, nor does a masterpiece effect immediately end if the bard falls unconscious, etc. The masterpiece effects linger until their duration expires, or until a new masterpiece or other bardic performance is started.

Example: If a bard has activated Triple Time on an ally, whenever they start to activate another bardic performance (or masterpiece), Triple Time wears off immediately, no matter where the ally is.

Position #2 - Masterpieces are unusual applications of the bardic performance ability. Any masterpiece that is completed and has a duration independent of the bard no longer counts against the maintained performance limit.

Position #2 FAQ:

Masterpieces can be separated into two categories: maintained and independent. A masterpiece is maintained if it requires the bard to spend actions in subsequent rounds or else the masterpiece will end. A masterpiece is independent of the bard if no action must be taken after the masterpiece is activated for the effect to continue for its entire duration.

A maintained masterpiece immediately ends if a bard starts a new masterpiece or bardic performance. An independent masterpiece does not end if a bard starts a new masterpiece or bardic performance. It lasts until its duration expires.

Example: If a bard has completed the activation of the Triple Time masterpiece on an ally, the ally retains the bonus even if the bard starts another Bardic Performance or Masterpiece.

Example: If a bard has the masterpiece The Depths of the Mountain activated, since it is a maintained Masterpiece, the bard must end that masterpiece if Inspire Courage is started.

Position #3 - Masterpieces are unusual applications of the bardic performance ability. They are not actual Bardic Performances.

Position #3 FAQ:

Masterpieces and Bardic Performances are independent of each other. They do not interact nor do they prevent or cancel each other. Both can be active at the same time, although they each require separate activation actions.

Example: A bard has Inspire Courage going in battle. The battle is almost finished, so the bard starts the masterpiece Triple Time while Inspire Courage is still up and running. Rounds of Bardic Performance are spent simultaneously on both abilities.


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fearcypher wrote:

A kitsune sorcerer could easily have a DC 20 suggestion at the level they can cast it.

10+2(spell level)+5(20 charisma)+1(Kitsune racial bonus)+1(favored class bonus)+1(spell focus[enchantment])

This would be a DC 21 as suggestion for a sorcerer is a level 3 spell.

A fey bloodline sorcerer would add +2 more from bloodline arcana for a DC 23.


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Neils Bohr wrote:
I have a pretty standard oradin build. Mythic gives lots of options to heal very well and the amounts of damage taken make life link pretty paltry. I'm just wondering if I'm going to miss out on anything if I drop the 4 levels of Oracle.

4 levels of oracle? Nope. You won't miss out on much. You only need 1 level of oracle as an Oradin. That one level, getting Dual Cursed for Misfortune and Life Link (using a feat for Extra Revelation) is a very powerful combo, even at level 8 or 12. Misfortune is the lion's share of that at the higher levels.

Now, missing out on 8 levels of Oracle, that's the real question. You are getting to the point where you can lay down some serious spells while using move actions for channels to heal the whole group at once. Communal Resist Energy is the bomb!

Blessing of Fervor
Prayer
Communal Resist Energy
Delay Poison (immunity to poison, use with a rod of extend spell)
etc.

And then there is that 5th level spell that gives the party a favored enemy and favored terrain for 1 hour per level. Amazing!

Going paladin 8 is more self empowering with stellar self healing. Going oracle 8 is practically the same combat power as you currently have (less smiting), but it packs a lot more party empowering features.

I guess it depends if you still wanted that party helping feel to the character...


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Rory wrote:
I simply don't know any examples where a ranged touch attack counts as piercing (or slashing or bludgeon) damage. Maybe there are some. If anyone had any examples of those two lines crossing, that would help a lot.
Quote:
Weird Words (Su): At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with 1 potent sound per bard level (maximum 10), each sound affecting one target within 30 feet. These are ranged touch attacks. Each weird word deals 1d8 points of damage plus the bard's Charisma bonus (Fortitude half), and the bard chooses whether it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage for each word. This performance replaces suggestion.

Thanks Matthew! Based on that precedence, the modified Ray of Frost could definitely be a ranged touch piercing attack.

Doesn't make definition sense to me, but so what, it's... magic! :-)


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Wayne Bradbury wrote:

I like using Magical Lineage + Wayang Spellhunter to get free Empower Spell on Ray of Frost. And then taking False Focus + Point-Blank Shot, with 1 level each into Invoker Winter Witch, Crossblooded Sorcerer, and Medium, and buying a Liquid Ice to hold onto.

And then doing (2d3+12)*1.5 = 21 to 26 damage with a cantrip at level 3 (assuming human, so you can get all 3 feats).

Can you go into the detail of this? I am missing how you are adding the additional +1d3 damage to the spell.

1d3 Ray of Frost
+2 Medium
+2 Crossblooded Sorcerer (Draconic/Orc bloodlines)
+1 Reckoning (Invoker Witch)
+1 Liquid Ice (as a Focus)
-----------------------------
(1d3+6)*1.5

+1 Point Blank Shot

(1d3+6)*1.5 + 1

11-14 damage per shot


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If my character build functions at level 1, then I prefer to start at level 1 because I'm one of those that enjoy the journey rather than the end game.

If my character build doesn't start function until level 3 or 4, then playing levels 1-2 are an exercise of patience. I'd prefer to skip them at that point.

Example: I played a level 1 melee wizard at level 1 and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. It was a challenge to scrape by as best possible and see it heartily succeed (+5 to hit with a 1d6+6 quarterstaff, even achieving AC 25 in one fight) when first instinct says its a worthless thing (wizard? melee? serious...?)

Example: I had trouble getting into a life oracle at levels 1-3 because it just didn't have enough spell slots per day to do much of anything as a "caster". It wasn't until level 4, and really level 6, that it became very enjoyable to play.

Ever since, when creating a character, I always keep one eye on when it really becomes playable.


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River Shadow-hand wrote:
what are some of those really important spells that Oracles should most definitely take?

Pages of Spell Knowledge really help to expand spells known. They are pretty cheap for levels 1 and 2 spells too.

Rods of Extend Spell can really help out as well. Get one or a few.

Level 1:

Remove Sickness is a really nice spell. It removes lots of conditions, but more importantly, it is a long last pre-battle spell. It gives +4 saves to lots of effects. I'd recommend a spell slot or at least a Page of Spell Knowledge.

Liberating Command can greatly remove grapple issues the party might come up against. It scales with level so is good for a spell slot or page.

Ant Haul will alleviate all encumbrance issues. If that applies to you, this can be an excellent page spell.

Protection From Evil needs a mention due to the amount of swing that mind controlling one party member can have. You can cover this with scrolls if desired, but be wary of this need.

Level 2:

Lesser Restoration will repair just about all diseases, poisons, and most other stat problems. I'd recommend a spell slot dedicated to this.

Grace is nice to get around on the battlefield in a tight pinch. It's swift action casting time makes it worth a dedicated spell slot, eventually, especially at higher levels.

Delay Poison makes you immune to Poison. It scales with level, so making it a spell slot or page is pretty nice. You could make yourself "perma-immune" to poison as early as level 4 with 3 spell slots and a Lesser Rod of Extend Spell.

Remove Paralysis needs a mention due to the amount of swing that paralyzing one party member can have. You can cover this with scrolls if desired, but be wary of this need.

Level 3:

Communal Resist Energy. So nice. So nice. So nice.

Level 4:

Greater Path of Glory is a very convenient hand wave for party healing after battle. This can get rid of a lot of book-keeping headache (and expense) when using wands of cure light wounds. My level 12 life oracle loves this spell due its extreme simplicity. "I cast Greater Path of Glory so everyone get back 60 hitpoints". I'd not recommend it too early, but eventually.

Level 5:

Breath of Life needs a mention due to the amount of swing that the death of one party member can have. It's hard to cover this with scrolls (Gloves of Storing greatly help). This is easily covered with First Aid Gloves by anyone in the party. It's an excellent, excellent usage of the Mnemonic Vestment scroll approach.

For most other condition curing, rely on scrolls and/or the mnemonic vestment, that day or next day.


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justaworm wrote:
Our table consists of a core group that are good friends, non-competitive, and have gamed together a long time. We generally distribute according to "best use", which even sometimes ends up in "you take it, no you take it" debates with us.

For posterity, when I implemented the system years ago that the OP described in the first post, it actually solved those "you take it, no you take it" debates. There was a person (and more than one at times) who would never ever pick anything that anyone else might remotely want.

The goal of the new system was that that person could readily see that it was their turn "to pick" and that it was fair and okay to pick it. And finally, they did start picking stuff (although invariably he remained in the lower half of the picked loot value, but he was picking stuff!)

The biggest problem of the system turned out to be that there was another player that worked to exploit any and every loophole. He started listing as picking everything. He dropped to and remained at the very bottom of the list. He didn't care. He could just sell everything that no one else wanted after he got it. And the cash would be his.

Technically, he was right. Technically. He was called out for dubious practices (wasn't the first, nor the last) and quickly stopped it.

That is something the OP will want to make sure doesn't happen for certain. The Virtual Gold variation would have stopped that, 'cuz the party wouldn't have to issue additional virtual gold, which stops the abuser.


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Calybos1 wrote:

So a wizard in my home group is multiclassing into Monk for a few levels ("Hey, no armor = no armor"), with the goal of delivering a few karate chops to the bad guys when he's out of spells (which is often).

If the problem is that the wizard runs out of spells, then multi-classing into monk will simply exasperate that issue and cause major headaches down the road. There are many solutions to running out of spells that should be pursued first.

- getting more wizard levels = getting more spells
- get pearls of power (lots of level 1 pearls equals lots of MMs)
- use scrolls/wands/etc.
- use multi-round spells: Flaming Sphere, Aqueous Orb, etc.
- throwing acid flasks

IF the wizard really wants to do melee, then counsel him into casting Beast Shape I (even if it is an opposed school) once or thrice. This will give just as much and more melee power to start as going level 1 monk. This will give the wizard a taste of being a melee wizard without having to dip-n-regret.

"Try It Before You Buy It"


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Your system as described in the original post works quite well. I actually spelled this system out verbatim a few years back. That makes me biased, but that also means I understand the system you are using.

Alynthar42 wrote:
Our system wasn't causing problems until we found a few potions in a bandit base we'd just trashed. Two of us wanted to count potions towards your total value, because we felt that the basis of the system was to keep track of your gold spent and your effective wealth by level. In other words, we don't have personal cash deposits because this system allows us to get more items and is less hassle, but we are trying to evenly distribute wealth anyway. One of our players objected to this, saying that once a potion is gone, it is no longer of value to him.

Generally speaking, picked loot value only goes up.

The potions picked would count against the total loot value picked by the character. That's the way the system works. It doesn't matter if you use up the item (potions, scrolls, wands, etc.) It doesn't matter if you later sell the item to get the gold. If you pick it, then it counts against the character's picked loot value.

If someone doesn't want it to count towards their picked loot value, then they must pass on it to give everyone else the chance. At the end, when the party goes to sell it, they can simply sell it to the character and split the gold as normal, or the party can decide to give it to party loot, usable be anyone if the need arises.

If two people want the potion, then it definitely must be counted as a picked loot value item.


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claudekennilol wrote:

Except in the case of Triple Time, it specifically calls out that it takes a minute to perform and then you only get the benefit for the hour after the performance is completed. I really don't see anything that supports that you can't start another performance during that hour and still have the benefit of both.

Just for a moment, let's assume that a new bardic performance or masterpiece immediately canceled any and all ongoing performances or masterpieces. Let me example what this fully means with a story since we are discussing bards.

"Spooky Action At A Distance"

Lars the Luckless Barbarian pays Yuks the local minstrel for a quick play of Triple Time and then plane shifts to the abyss to run thru fire to save a friend. Halfway thru the fiery run, that pesky Yuks, who is still back on the material plane, uses bardic performance to Fascinate a crowd of onlookers during a new card trick. In the abyss, nobody hears the final screams of poor Lars as he loses his extra speed early and fails to clear the Inferno Fields of Demonfire.


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Chess Pwn wrote:
Thus people are wanting an official answer because of PFS

I'm definitely one of that number. I hope they formulate the answer soon.


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Selective Channel for a paladin will be helpful...

IF more than one person (besides yourself, 'cuz swift lay on hands) needs healing
IF they are out of range of a 5 ft step or move
IF the enemy is near enough
IF the enemy is hurt
IF channeling is a better action than your other standard actions

(Selective Channel can definitely be useful, don't get me wrong, just be aware of the IFs, which you likely already know)

Selective Channel was most helpful at low levels. The party's damage and focused damage prowess went up so much faster than a channel's effect. Getting it at level 11 is probably way too late. You might get it instead of Extra Channel at 7th.

After my life oracle got Quick Channel, the only time ever I "had to channel" in combat, it was in a round I used Quick Channel (which also included rounds that I decided to double channel). It didn't matter that I dropped from 6 channels per day to 3 channels per day. My other standard action buffs/debuffs/spells got to be very useful by then.

In any event, don't make any fixed decision now of course. Just keep all the feats on radar and see what you actually need in the campaign. That's the most fun anyways. I'm green with envy at you starting into a game going to level 20. Cheers!


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Halek wrote:

Why are bears getting more feats?

Wouldn't the higher dex make weapon finnesse more attractive for the raptor.

Also i am not seeing anything that makes the talons secondary attacks? Why would they be?

Bears don't require Weapon Finesse = +1 more feat mentioned above.

At level 3, bears have a 16 STR and raptors have an 18 DEX (which is the -1 to hit by the bears).

At level 4, bears have a 20 STR and raptors have an 18 DEX (which is the +1 to hit for the bears).

At level 7, raptors drop 2 DEX (which means the bears are +2 to hit relatively). At this level, Weapon Finesse doesn't help over strength anymore, so you can free up that feat.

Found the chart. Talons are primaries, so that won't be an issue for you. Yay!

*******************************************

Natural Attacks by Size
Natural Attack
Base Damage by Size*
Damage Type Attack Type
Fine Dim. Tiny Small Medium Large Huge Garg. Col.
Bite 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6 B/S/P Primary
Claw — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B/S Primary
Gore 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6 P Primary
Hoof, Tentacle, Wing — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B Secondary
Pincers, Tail Slap 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6 B Secondary
Slam — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B Primary
Sting — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 P Primary
Talons — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 S Primary
Other — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B/S/P Secondary


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zainale wrote:
one that you can take that has minimal impact... making a reincarnation druid/oracle

Lame is completely canceled out by a casting of Longstrider (which you can cast), or with a pair of Boots of Striding and Springing.


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Example Transmutation Wizard (level 6)

S: 20 D: 14 C: 14 I: 14 W: 10 Ch: 8 (20 pt human, +1 STR @4th, +2 STR wizard)

School: Transmutation/Enhancement subschool
Opposed Schools: Evocation, Divination

Feats:
Toughness (human)
Arcane Strike (1st)
Spell Focus Conjuration (3rd)
Augment Summoning (5th)
Extend Spell (wizard 5)

Arcane Bond:
+2 Amulet of Mighty Fists

Spells:
1st: Mage Armor, Shield, Shocking Grasp
2nd: False Life, Alter Self
3rd: Monstrous Physique I, Heroism, Ablative Barrier
4th: Stoneskin, Monstrous Physique II

Battle Strategy: Use 1 round at most to buff in battle. Pre-Buff with Heroism via its long duration.

Defense Strategy: Long duration spells.
Level 2: False Life
Level 3: Ablative Barrier
Level 4: Stoneskin

Monstrous Physique trumps Beast Shape (have both tho) typically due to being able to cast while Polymorphed.


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Here is an example of a melee transmutation wizard tactic:

Level 5 Transmutation Wizard - Half-Orc

S: 20 D: 14 C: 14 I: 14 W: 8 Ch: 10 (20 pt half-orc, +2 STR from wizard school)

Trait:
- Magical Lineage: Shocking Grasp
- Wayang Spell Hunter: Shocking Grasp

Racial Trait:
- the one that gives a Bite Attack

Feat:
- Spell Focus: Evocation
- Spell Specialization: Shocking Grasp (3rd)
- Quicken Spell (5th)
- Intensify Spell (wizard 5)

Arcane Bond:
- Amulet of Spell Storing (used to store a CL 7 Shocking Grasp spell)

Opening round of combat:

- Move Action: Move Up To A Foe
- Swift Action: Cast Quickened Shocking Grasp
- Standard Action: Bite

12d6 lightning + 1d4 bite + 7 STR

That's one big bite!


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- Apply a healthy dose of continuous damage to the wizard before they cast Time Stop. That may foil some spells being cast during that time.

- Hit them with a Disruptive Spell.

****************************************************************

Disruptive Spell (Metamagic)
Your magical energies cling to enemies, interfering with their spellcasting.

Benefit: Targets affected by a disruptive spell must make concentration checks when using spells or spell-like abilities (DC equals the save DC of the disruptive spell plus the level of the spell being cast) for 1 round. Targets that avoid the spell's effects avoid this feat's effect as well. A disruptive spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.


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Xemnas wrote:
Not trying to min max just trying to make a beefy brawler in a party that has a lot of first timers, that way they don't have to worry about being the tank.

Since you are playing with a lot of first timers, one gooooood option is to play a character that supports those players and helps them play a tank or whatever else they desire. You'll be able to boost the party and still remain quite competitive in a new player environment.

Playing a bloodrager will easily steal the spotlight from the first time player and might take away too much too easily from them.

This isn't the advice you asked for, but it's the advice I'd give any veteran when they are playing with a bunch of first timers.

Example Support Characters:

Level 5 dual cursed life oracle can Life Link the front people, buff the party, and start to reliably cast crowd control spells. Toppling Spiritual Weapons are fun as well as protecting the front line and giving AOOs against foes that stand up.

Level 5 bard is great for party buffing. Pick a long sword and shield fighting form to tank in the front line and buff all the new people by a lot.


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wraithstrike wrote:
So basically you are saying the same thing that I am.

Correct. I was emphasizing a certain point you made to help drive it home.

Being a good healer requires being able to handle some healing in combat, mitigate some status effects, being able to do something else meritous when healing isn't required, and knowing when to do each.

That bolded part puts the "good" in "good healer". :-)


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Tiefling straight Paladin is one of the hardest to kill. Their favored class bonus for paladins is crazy good. Pick a variant tielfing heritage that is +CHA, +STR/+CON and -WIS.

Paladins make pretty decent party healers, agreed. They don't need a high AC at all due to the excessive self-healing.

Feats:
Fey Foundling (1st)
Greater Mercy (3rd)
Quicken Channel (5th)

By level 2, you'll be able to self heal for 1d6+4 as a swift action.
By level 3, you'll be able to self heal for 2d6+7 as a swift action.
By level 4, you'll be able to self heal for 3d6+10 as a swift action.

Spells:
Hero's Defiance (level 1, immediate action, Lay On Hands self if you fall unconscious)

(I think there is an immediate action spell that let's you absorb the hit a party member takes, but I can't find it right now)

Get a couple of Pearls of Power and keep that spell up for every combat.

Later on, get the gauntlets that boost Lay On Hands by +4 paladin levels.


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Atarlost wrote:
Dropping from a bought 16 (racial 18) to a bought 14 (racial 16) gets you to 11, but there's a 1 skill point/level minimum so that's only a 1 point gain. Losing 1 attack and 2 damage for 1 skill point is not a reasonable trade and I do not consider it a good faith proposal.

You left out the +2 bonus to all INT skills, which far exceeds the penalty of -1 to the two STR skills. It's a lot more than 1 skill point per level.

thejeff wrote:

By "trivial", you mean being human, using your fcb for skills, being a Lore Warden and/or buying up Int, right?

S: 17 D: 14 C: 14 I: 14 W: 12 Ch: 7 (20 pt human fighter)

S: 18 D: 12 C: 14 I: 14 W: 12 Ch: 7 (20 pt human fighter)

This is a decent strength fighter with quite a few skill points. If the above character is a Lore Warden Fighter, that's up to 8 skill points per level potential. And it doesn't lose that much in the way of martial prowess.

Dropping INT to 7 is definitely a choice. Paladins have a far harsher time of it than fighters due to needing CHA.

S: 16 D: 12 C: 13 I: 14 W: 10 Ch: 14 (20 pt human paladin)

Up to 6 skill points on a paladin is still quite surviveable and able to do its thing. It does have to sacrifice some things for having skills, but it can be done and still leave a very workable character.


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Atarlost wrote:
Oracles are really bad at the healer role because the cleric list in general and condition removal spells in particular are designed for prepared divine casters who know their entire list.

A Mnemonic Vestment with a few scrolls is how to take care of condition removal as an oracle at a reasonable level.

***********************************

Vestment, Mnemonic

Aura strong transmutation; CL 17th; Slot body; Price 5,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

The surface of this delicate-looking blue silk robe is adorned with tiny embossed runes across its entire surface.

If the wearer is a spontaneous caster, once per day she may use a spell slot to cast a spell from a written source (such as a scroll or spellbook) as if she knew that spell. The spell must be on her spell list, the same spell level or lower than the expended spell slot, and the same type of spell (arcane or divine) as the spell slot expended. The caster must also understand the written source (such as using Decipher Script (Editor’s Note: This should probably be Spellcraft.) or read magic) and be carrying it. Activating the robe is not an action, but casting the spell otherwise works as normal, including casting time, providing components or foci, and so on. Using a mnemonic vestment’s properties does not consume the written source.

A mnemonic vestment must be worn for 24 consecutive hours before using its effects.


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If the character died via reckless behavior, then I can understand that the party wouldn't want to pay for the rez.

If the character died protecting and/or saving the party, which included stepping up front and protecting others from attacks, then for the party to push all the rez cost on the character is a bad move. Not only do you unproportionately penalize the upfront protecting character (making it weaker and less able to defend others), but you zero out the value of protecting the others. There is value there that the rest of the party could be taking for granted.

If the player is invested into their character to want to bring it back, that is a good thing. The penalty for death needs to be paid, whatever the GM determines, but the game is for fun. Work towards maximum enjoyment for the best game potential.


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The character that has Shield Other cast on him takes half damage. This means that when 5 damage is taken, the character only takes 2 damage.

The character that cast Shield other takes "the amount of damage not taken". 5 damage - 2 damage = 3 damage taken by the caster of Shield Other.

(relavent line bolded from the Shield Other spell)

*****************************************************

Shield Other

This spell wards the subject and creates a mystic connection between you and the subject so that some of its wounds are transferred to you. The subject gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus on saves. Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If the subject suffers a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction is not split with you because it is not hit point damage. When the spell ends, subsequent damage is no longer divided between the subject and you, but damage already split is not reassigned to the subject.

If you and the subject of the spell move out of range of each other, the spell ends.


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Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I did not mean to suggest the spell actually causes the attack to miss. I think of that "decide after the roll is revealed" mechanic as "turning hits into misses"

Thank you for the clarification.

I can see why you allow the spell to be cast after the hit is determined, but before the damage is dealt. The ability is not negating the hit. The hit still hits, regardless. The spell is only altering the damage taken.

Makes sense to me at least. Thanks!


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sojoocy wrote:

Playing a support character sounds like it'd get me a lot of high-fives, but...I wanna be ferocious ;-;

Ferocious Buffer ... of a sort ...

Evangelist Cleric of Erastil

S: 8 D: 14 C: 13 I: 12 W: 16 Ch: 15 (20 pt human)

Domain: 1 only due to Evangelist Archetype
Animal (due to the eventual animal companion)

Traits:
Reactionary (+2 Init)
Fate's Favored (+1 luck bonuses)

Feats:
Flagbearer (human)
Spell Focus: Conjuration (1st)
Augment Summoning (3rd)
Boon Companion (5th)
Sacred Summons (7th)
Superior Summoning (9th)

(this doesn't get to be "ferocious" until 5th level)

1st level:
Inspire Courage (+1/+1 competence bonus)
Flagbearer (+1/+1 morale bonus)
- shoot a crossbow for 1d8+2 damage
--- Divine Favor adds +2/+2 more

2nd level:
- summon celestial eagle (3 attacks for 1d4 before IC and FB)

3rd level:
- summon 1d3 celestrial eagles (1d4+2 damage before IC and FB)
- use a Lesser Rod of Toppling Spell to create Tripping Spiritual Weapons

4th level:
- animal companion (puny here, but a neat addition)

5th level:
Inspire Courage (+2/+2 competence bonus)
- animal companion (choose a bear) makes for a ferocious attacker with just your no-spell buffs applied

7th level:
- get a Banner of Ancient Kings (+2/+2 morale bonus with Flagbearer)
- move action Inspire Courage (+2/+2 competence)
- standard action summon Hound Archon (who comes buffed at +6/+7)
- animal companion bear also attacks

At level 7, you'll be very ferocious while adding +4/+4 to the party.

By level 9, standard action summoning auto buffed augmented 1d3+1 hound archons or 1d4+2 lantern archons is arguably encounter breaking.

In the end, your character won't be ferocious directly, but it'll wield rather ferocious powers.


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Halfling Hulking Ninja

This ninja walks around with a green tinge on his skin from the reflection of enemy faces.

S: 14 D: 18 C: 12 I: 7 W: 10 Ch: 14 (20 pt halfling)

Ninja 1
Ninja 2
Oracle 1 (stone mystery, rock throwing revelation)
Barbarian 1 (hurler archetype)

Traits:
Fate's Favored (+1 to all luck bonuses)
Armor Expert (-1 ACP on worn armor)

Feats:
Quick Draw (1st)
Point Blank Shot (3rd)
Rapid Shot (ninja talent)

Tactics:

1st level - just walk around beating things with a weapon in two hands dealing weapon +3 damage + bonus if sneak attacking, or throw weapons to make them come to you

2nd level - now explode in damage with that ki attack as an extra attack with that two handed weapon when they do close on you, or just take extra attacks when you can sneak attack or at ranged

3rd level - you can quick draw and throw three rocks for 2d3+4 damage each using your ki pool, buff with Divine Favor to get +2/+2 goodness

4th level - you'll have a range of +10 ft for rocks and the damage goes up to 2d3+7 each, or quick draw a great sword for 1d10+6 damage, don't forget Divine Favor

Take levels of ninja, or fighter (2 levels of Lore Warden for faster feats) thereafter. You'll want to pick up the feats to progress thru the ranged damage path (Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, etc.)

Power Attack will make you a good switch hitter. Extra Ki is always good.


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Rysky wrote:
"Barbarian's Damage Reduction" always meant DR gained from the class, not just a Barbarian who has DR from any source.

It does not say "Barbarian's Damage Reduction". It says "barbarian's damage reduction".

The difference between a common and proper noun is important.

If they are going to issue errata due to the FAQ, they should fix it in all places. 'Tis all.


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Sawyer Lachance 971 wrote:
What do you think of the idea?

I think you can capture the spirit of your idea by having the deity decide the domain spell slot.

Allow the deity to pick any spell as the domain spell instead of from the limited selection of two. You might consider granting this spell prior to the cleric picking their other spells for the day.

In the end, the player loses control of picking one spell (which they didn't really have great control over anyways). The deity has a nifty influence effect that you are trying to achieve The player gains a bit of insight about what the day could bring to help load up a smarter spell set for the day.


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Terronus wrote:

This conundrum came up at our table: the group is making perception checks while exploring a dungeon. Pretty bad perception checks. Having already been victim to some traps, we continue making checks until one of us has a decent roll (whether it meets any trap DCs or not, we couldn't say) and continue on through the dungeon in this manner.

Unless the group is actively searching, the GM should have them make the perception check when the trap is set off.

If the group is purposefully trying to be away of traps, as a GM, I would offer them to pick one of three options.

- Take 10 option for regular movement (non combat only)
- Take 20 option for an exhaustive, time consuming search (non combat only)
- Roll PER once when they encounter the trap (combat or non-combat)


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Chess Pwn wrote:
Bombs don't have Int to damage.

Per RAW, they do. If a class archetype trades away one class ability, you still read and run the remaining class abilities per their text. And in the Bomb class ability text, it explicitly says they get INT to damage.

Bomb (Su): In addition to magical extracts, alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies. An alchemist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, an alchemist's bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist's Intelligence modifier. The damage of an alchemist's bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb's minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the alchemist's level + the alchemist's Intelligence modifier.

Alchemists can learn new types of bombs as discoveries (see the Discovery ability) as they level up. An alchemist's bomb, like an extract, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.


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Ever consider a straight Wizard - Transmutation Specialist?

- get a permanent-like bonus to a physical stat that increases with level
- enchant your Arcane Bond Amulet of Mighty Fist for half cost
- get your best polymorph spells faster

S: 18 D: 14 C: 14 I: 14 W: 10 Ch: 8 (20 pt human, +1 STR via trans spec)

Feats:
Improved Init (human)
Toughness (1st)
Arcane Strike (3rd)
Power Attack (5th)
etc.

Enhance your defenses with long lasting buff spells: Mage Armor, False Life, Arcane Barrier, Heroism, Stoneskin, etc.

You'll make up for lower BAB by using multiple natural attacks, Heroism spell, higher than normal STR, and cheap Amulet.

Sample Strength Progression:
1st - 18 STR (17 base, +1 trans spec)
3rd - 20 STR (17 base, +1 trans spec, +2 Alter Self)
5th - 22 STR (18 base, +2 trans spec, +2 Monstrous Physique I)
7th - 24 STR (18 base, +2 trans spec, +4 Monstrous Physique II)

And if things go bad, you can always have some pretty nice spells to fall back on for range damage, area control, stealth, and/or escape.


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Halfling Slingstaff not counting as a sling for Warslinger racial trait, etc.

Oracles not using CHA for Spiritual Weapon, etc. spells.


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DarkKnight27 wrote:

In Rory's example:

GG - I ready to move up to the BG when he starts to cast a spell.
BG - Starts to cast a spell.
GG - (ready action is triggered) Moves up to BG.
BG - Sees the GG moving toward him so decides not to cast a spell.
GG - Suddenly his readied action never triggers so he's not moving toward BG
BG - (Reality has reset) Starts casting a spell.
GG - (ready action is triggered) Moves up to BG.

This is the logic loop that Rory was trying to point out. This is not how the rules work. Once an action is committed to you have to complete the action if possible.

(claudekennilol was trying to point out the logic loop hazard)

I interpret it as...

GG - I ready to move up to the BG when he starts to cast a spell.
BG - Starts to cast a spell (triggers AOOs from all those that threaten)
GG - (ready action is ALSO triggered) Moves up to BG.
BG - Sees the GG moving closer but is stuck casting the spell until it is finished.
GG - Is now beside the BG, but the AOO for casting the spell is already past.

This illustrates what I think are the differences (via trigger interpretation). There is no logic loop involved.


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Gauss wrote:

A) We have a feat that does not work correctly because the author did not understand that tiny creatures still threaten their own squares.

or

B) We have a feat that does not work correctly because the author did not provide an exception to the existing rules.

or

C) We have an ability that works correctly because the mouser specific ability overrides the general rules for 5-foot step, Withdraw, Acrobatics tumbling and all other movement that escapes the mouser's square.

If two options do not work and one option does, then odds are that the working option is the correct option. This is the logical GM position (to me) until they write that FAQ or errata.


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FAQ'd and dotted.

Put me down in hoping that they can be used in parallel with regular performances. The faster usage of Bardic Performance rounds should be control enough in my opinion.


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Make the gaming table an "electronics free zone" except for potentially looking up rules, etc. Make them bring printed out copies of their character, take notes using pencil and paper, and make sure to roll actual dice.

I have a friend that use to bring a laptop to "take notes" (he was quite good at it), but I banned the laptop because it got in the way of seeing each other. That and there were other laptops creeping in that were definitely not for note-taking-purposes.

This past week, my wife and I marveled how addicted some people are to their phones. We were playing tennis next to a couple of late teen to early 20s guys playing the same. Between points (not even games), one of them would be checking his phone for something. Between games, they would both sit down and look at something on their phones. Crazy.


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Here is a build for a fighter that is "weird". You end up really pummeling the field with rocks. Also, with UMD as a skill, you can add lots of little magics here and there.

************************************************************

Knotso Dinki Rock Tosser

S: 19 D: 14 C: 12 I: 10 W: 8 Ch: 12 (20 pt basic human)

Traits:
- Fate's Favored (+1 to all luck bonuses)
- Dangerously Curious

Feats:
- Quick Draw (Human)
- Point Blank Shot (1st)
- Rapid Shot (Fighter 1)
- Precise Shot(3rd)
- Weapon Focus: Rock (Fighter 2)
- Deadly Aim (5th)
- Weapon Specialization: Rock (Fighter 4)

Items:
- Belt of Mighty Hurler (equipped @ 6th)

Level 1: Oracle (Stone Mystery)
- Revelation: Rock Throwing
- Spells: Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, Abundant Ammunition
Level 2: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
Level 3: Barbarian (Hurler Archetype)
- Skilled Thrower
Level 4: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
Level 5: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
Level 6: Fighter (Weaponmaster Archetype)
etc.

Theme - Rock Thowing!

NOTE: Divine Favor adds +2/+2 to the above numbers.
NOTE: Free Action draw a Great Sword as needed in Melee.
NOTE: Thrown rock range increment- 20 ft @ 1st, 30 feet @ 3rd, 40 feet @ 6th

******************************

Rock Throwing (Ex): You are an accomplished rock thrower and
have a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown rocks.
You can hurl rocks up to two categories smaller than your
own size. The range increment for a rock is 20 feet, and you
can hurl it up to 5 range increments. Damage for a hurled
rock is 2d4 for a Medium creature or 2d3 for a Small
creature, plus 1-1/2 your Strength bonus.

Skilled Thrower (Ex): The hurler is skilled at throwing
objects in combat. Increase the range increment of any
thrown weapon or object by 10 feet. This ability replaces
fast movement.

Belt of Mighty Hurling, Lesser
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th
Slot belt; Price 14,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION
This thick leather belt is buckled with a bright bronze clasp in the shape of a fist.

When worn, it grants its wearer a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and allows him to apply his Strength modifier as a bonus on attack rolls instead of his Dexterity modifier when making ranged attacks with thrown weapons. Also, the range increment of any weapon thrown by the wearer gains a +10-foot bonus. Treat this Strength bonus as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn.


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Or pick a lawful good Evangelist Cleric of Erastil to get your own animal companion to join in on the melee fun. Combine it with Boon Companion, Flagbearer and Sacred Summons feats. You will be a buffing titan with incredible damage and control potential too.

S: 8 D: 12 C: 13 I: 12 W: 20 Ch: 15 (20 pt human, +2 WIS @ 4th/8th)

Traits:
Fate's Favored (+1 to all luck bonuses)
Seeker (PER is a class skill, +1 trait bonus to PER)
Reactionary (+2 Init)
Magical Lineage (Spiritual Weapon)

Feats:
Flagbearer (human)
Extra Traits (1st)
Toppling Spell (3rd)
Boon Companion (5th)
Sacred Summons (7th)

- Perception will be thru the roof, making you a nice trap detector
- "Always On" +1/+1 Morale bonus to the group
- Move Action +2/+2 Inspire Courage to the group
- Cast Toppling Spiritual Weapon (+14 to hit, 1d8+5 damage, +16 CMB to trip)
- Full HD Animal Companion (bear is a great medium size, easy to use)
- Standard Action Summon Monster IV (1d3 Lantern Archons or 1 Hound Archon)

You are a walking +3/+3 buff to the whole party. And that is prior to spells adding more. Your Animal Companion will maul things. And this is without even spending a standard action on the first turn you go.

You can add more buffs (Prayer, Blessing of Fervor), debuff (Archon's Aura spell, tripping Spiritual Weapon, Burst of Radiance, Sound Burst), or opt to dish out your own extra damage (1d3 Lantern Archons do 2d6+6 to 6d6+18 on your opening round of combat, and each round thereafter unless you buff them and the party even more).

And spend 18k gold to get a Banner of Ancient King's to net +4 Init and boosting Flagbearer to +2/+2.


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FratManCy wrote:

Being that we're a level 8 party, I think I would hit the bare minimum for MT? If that's the case, can anyone recommend a build and role I should play?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

Your role will be nearly 100% support. You will be working to enhance the Hunter and Barbarian so they can accomplish the big tasks. If you are okay with that, and most people are not able to make that commitment, then you should give it a go.

Pick a caster you want to focus on for more offense. My suggestion is Wizard. Take the trait Magical Lineage (+2 caster level) to boost that class. Then pick a secondary class. I'm going to suggest the Cleric and build from there.

S: 8 D: 14 C: 12 I: 20 W: 14 Ch: 10 (20 pt human, +INT @ 4th/8th)

Feats:
Scribe Spell (wizard 1)
Spell Focus: Conjuration (human)
Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration (1st)

Sample Wizard Spells: Offense Load, Some Buff

1st (6): Magic Missile, Enlarge Person, Ray of Enfeeblement (1d6+3, DC 16)
2nd (4): Glitterdust (DC 19), Scorching Ray (2 rays), Defending Bone
3rd (3): Stinking Cloud (DC 20), Haste, Aqueous Orb (DC 20)

Sample Cleric Spells: Buff Load, Some Condition Removal

1st (4+1): Remove Sickness, Liberating Command, Shield of Faith, Bless
2nd (3+1): Bull's Strength, Remove Paralysis, Lesser Restoration
3rd (1+1): Prayer

Items:
16k Headband of Intellect (+2 save DCs, extra 2nd and 3rd level spell)
8k +2 WIS Ioun Stone (extra third level spell, allows 5th and 6th level cleric spells)
5k 5x Pearl of Power (1st)
2k Scrolls, Scrolls, Scrolls...

This will give you a few decent CC and debuff spells. You won't do much damage at all yourself, but you'll be able to cast something useful almost always. You can change the tide of a battle on occasion, or just fall back to boosting your buddies. They should like you and quickly become endeared to protect you.


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Human Wizard (Evoker Specialist)

S: 8 D: 14 C: 12 I: 19 W: 12 Ch: 10 (20 pt human)

Traits:
Magical Lineage: Magic Missile (-1 metamagic level)
Reactionary (+2 Init)

Feats:
Spell Focus: Evocation (wizard 1 - replaces Scribe Spell)
Spell Specialization: Magic Missile (human)
Toppling Spell (1st)
Empower Spell (3rd)
Heighten Spell (wizard 5)
Preferred Spell (5th)

At 1st level:

4x Toppling Magic Missile (2d4+3, +7 CMB to trip)
7x Force Missile (1d4+1)

At 3rd level:

4x Empowered Magic Missile ([3d4+4]*1.5)
4x Toppling Magic Missile (3d4+4, +9 CMB to trip)
7x Force Missile (1d4+1)

At 4th level: +1 to INT, buy +2 INT headband

6x Empowered Magic Missile ([3d4+3]*1.5+2)
6x Toppling Magic Missile (3d4+5, +12 CMB to trip)
9x Force Missile (1d4+2)

At 5th level:

4x Empowered Toppling Magic Missile ([4d4+4]*1.5+2, +13 to trip)
5x Empowered Magic Missile ([4d4+4]*1.5+2)
6x Toppling Magic Missile (4d4+6, +13 CMB to trip)
9x Force Missile (1d4+2)

At 5th level, you can memorized everything else but Magic Missiles (your Bull's Strengh and CC spells as an example) and spontaneously cast Magic Missiles as you desire.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Joe Ducey wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So...is it me or should we be seeing all of the swashbucklers at service at the temple of saranrae this weekend?
Problem is that you can't use a Buckler with Dervish Dance, either.
Why not? It specifies "carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand" Bucklers are not in a hand they are strapped to a forearm, else you could not wield a bow (at no penalty) or a second weapon (at -1) while using one.
Thats way more loopholey than you want to try to build a PFS character around.

*tongue-in-cheek*

Cut the hand off and strap the buckler to your forearm. No GM can say you are wielding anything in your offhand that way. In case they ask, carry the off hand around in a glass box and show them that it is empty and not doing anything. Your worst enemy then will be a necromancer that animates your off hand.

Hello Thing!

***************

Okay, being serious now, the worst case that a GM can do is to take away the shield bonus when you attack. The best case is that a GM realizes that you could two hand a weapon when using a buckler, so your hand is still free... to hold a torch, a flag, a bottle of ale, etc.

That still leaves lots of viability at every table: having the buckler on the hand to increase flat-foot AC, build up a raw defensive AC mode, having bonus AC when you are moving into attack position and provoke an AOO, and readily boosting AC any time you can't get in an attack.


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Andrew Christian wrote:
Rory wrote:

With the change to Slashing Grace, that devestates the use of the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency Sawtooth Sabre.

Is that feat also game to retrain for free since you can't use Slashing Grash and a sawtooth sabre in the offhand?

In general I'd say no.

In general, I'd agree with you.

However, due to the change to Slashing Grace, they are mutually exclusive. That's a drastic penalty to apply to the player in my group. I'm not apt to make him pay to retrain something that was changed due to the errata unless I am absolutely forced to do so.


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Zamrok wrote:

Arcainist (Arcane master: check)

Skald (Minor healing, buff, damage dealer)
Hunter (Ranged Support w/ minor healing)
Paladin (Damage Sponge Build w/ minor healing)

With this group, you have two built in front liners... Hunter's Animal Companion + Paladin.

The paladin is a terrific self healer, so half the front line healing is nearly taken care of right from the start.

The biggest healing required will be status condition removal (poison, disease, etc.) since you have three people that already have minor healing avenues. That is best taken care of by the cleric.

For trapfinding, simply pump up your wisdom and perception check. This will let you find the traps. To disable them, soak up the damage and heal it, or set it off with a summoned pony.

For tanking, you'll have your own animal companion plus a move action mirror image ability plus the best heals in the party.

S: 14 D: 14 C: 15 I: 12 W: 16 Ch: 8 (20 pt dwarf)

Traits: Fate's Favored, Armor Expert

Level 1: Cleric (Animal-Feather and Trickery Domains - good perception, stealth class skill, and tanking domains)
Level 2+: all cleric

This character can sneak, look for traps, tank, and heal.


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Confront the rogue. Tell him that the next time something is stolen, the bill comes due. And then when it inevitably does...

- Walk into the rogue's room (while the rogue is there).
- Take the rogue's stuff.
- Hold it as ransom until your stuff is returned.

If the rogue tries to stop you, knock the rogue out. Do not kill the rogue. Put lipstick on him and paint his nose brown if you desire. And then take his stuff and hold it for ransom. For good measure, decorate his armor and what not in rainbows and pink fluffy clouds.

All the while, do this in a teasing fashion out of character, not a threatening or angry way. Let him know that the "joke" the rogue played on you over the past few weeks just seemed to deserve a fun "joke" in return.

Aim to laugh about it with the rogue, not at the rogue.


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Artanthos wrote:
Unless your GM plans on penalizing every non-human player, every summoner, everyone with an unusual animal companion, ect...

I "penalize" halflings when I GM by placing the cookie jar on the top shelf. :-)


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Jarazix wrote:
My question is should he have fallen? And in pathfinder do paladins lose their powers when they fall? It seems to no longer be explicitly stated.

No, he should not have fallen. He was tricked. There was no premeditation nor malice involved in the paladin's actions. The paladin showed "remorse" (that seems like what the GM wants) by spending the resources and time to raise her. To have it fail because the paladin didn't take any responsibility (which he just did by paying the resources for the raise dead) seems like the GM wanting to be cruel without reasonable justification.

Yes, when you fall, your paladin abilities are gone. You get them back after atonement.

If I were the GM, the spending of resources to attempt the raise dead would have been enough to count for an atonement (as the paladin spent a lot more).

Overall, I think the adventure hook the GM provided is very interesting. I think the paladin is righteously angry, and the party should be too. They have a grand quest to vanquish an evil foe. Yay! The GM not having the raise work is what breaks the aura created and potentially could break the game (pending the players' ability to brush off junk). To back pedal and have the raise work, or (even better) take the one poster's suggestion to have the wizard trap soul the low level paladin, would be ideal. Just have the priest who cast the Raise Dead "hear" the voice of the low level paladin crying out for help, and you likely just added enough to make the hook shine ever more brightly.

Beat the evil wizard, rescue the love interest... that's good cinema!

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