Golden Orb

Quentin Coldwater's page

***** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht 1,705 posts (6,677 including aliases). 129 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 43 Organized Play characters. 11 aliases.


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Slides Loot sheet

Yes, I think so too. Multiple exposures (and multiple failures) means you advance to the next stage.

But I got bad news for you: your second save is a crit fail. Which means you advance to stage 3, and immediate paralysis. :(


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Slides Loot sheet

Good news! Lough forgot to add Dorianna's help, and that, combined with the Frightened, means he makes it! And with Cherry Berry's Blossoms, he immediately reduces it by 2 stages, making him poison-free!

I'm not sure if the lowered DC from Frightened is supposed to carry over from pre-Frightened poison, but the way I read it, Frightened just lowers DCs, regardless of when the Frightened was applied. Which doesn't really make sense for poison, but on the other hand, if the Frightened was applied first, it also doesn't make sense that the poison grows stronger (or remains static) as the frighten wears off.

TL;DR: Lough is poison-free!


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Slides Loot sheet

Yes, I'll list what happens when you fail and go to the next stage, but for planning's sake, I'll also list it in a spoiler tag.

Venom progression:
Stage 1 3d6 poison damage and slowed 1 (1 round); Stage 2 3d8 poison damage and slowed 2 (1 round); Stage 3 3d10 poison damage and paralyzed for 2d4 hours

Thanks Lough for the reminder!

Will save spider: 1d20 + 17 ⇒ (2) + 17 = 19

Spider fails its save and is fascinated with Lough's beauty.

I'll rule that you go last, so others don't break the fascination. So spider is currently dazzled and fascinated.


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Slides Loot sheet

I posted the information about the spider in this post, which is *checks* whelp, three months ago. I still had that information in my brain, but I don't blame you if you didn't. Stupid me making assumptions again. Will mark in the future.

EDIT: Also, Lough, thanks for the explanation. The Exemplar is still a black box to me, I need to look into it some more to fully grok it.


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Teridax wrote:

To answer this question immediately:

StarDragonJenn wrote:
I'm left wondering if there's space for a cleric that thinks like an individual at least a little bit. I mean there's the splinter faith feat, but even that doesn't quite seem to contradict the 'unthinking zealot' portrayal in the essay. If there's space for a Nietzschean-lite cleric who deliberately seeks out situations where their faith will be tested and deliberately pushes the limits of their deity's without breaking them, and with intent to refine them. Or just someone who sees their deity as a friend and confidant rather than a stompy master...

There absolutely is room for this; your Cleric very much does not need to be a zealot, and many deities very much go against the "perpetually angry tyrant" archetype and can even be quite friendly with their worshipers. Clerics in particular are meant to be the people other worshipers come to whenever they seek answers or guidance regarding their faith, so it is also often in their interest to be able to articulate the merits of their deity from a place of genuine understanding, rather than blind devotion. Becoming a Cleric or Champion of a deity does require devoting yourself to their faith, but that faith doesn't mean debasing yourself or shutting down your critical thinking, so much as embodying those deities' principles to the fullest. This does usually mean taking on those principles far beyond the extent most other mortals would, but depending on the deity those principles can be in service of personal agency and greater understanding, rather than repression and ignorance.

For specific deities, I would particularly look towards deities that have both freedom and knowledge as their domains, like so:

  • ...
  • Awesome, thanks! I'll look them over more closely, but Zjar-Tovan and Aakriti sound like what I'm looking for. Aakriti is maybe a weird choice as an "ooze deity," but their anathema sounds great: "reject creatures or information due to bigoted or rigid beliefs." That sounds like an excellent questioner of faith. Similarly, Zjar-Tovan's edict "do not allow your purpose to be overly guided by another’s will," is an excellent example of avoiding blind dogma. Thanks for the information!


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    I hope I can sort of piggyback off this conversation: would it be possible to play a divine inquisitor? Not in the sense of "our" inquisitors, which sought out heretics, but someone who literally questions the power and scope of the deities? Coud a Cleric (or maybe a Champion) be critical of their own faith, of their own deity, and still be a proper follower of that faith? Or would it be better to drape that flavour over a non-divine class, such as maybe a Wizard who uses their intellect?

    Reason is, I got inspired by a fictional character who uses their intellect to solve mysteries, even within his own church. And I'm just wondering if it's possible for a Cleric to be skeptical of, or question the power, scope, and limits of their deity, or if that's grounds for expulsion from the church. I want to believe indeed in critical thinking rather than blind faith, but which deity (if any) would fit best with that?

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    I think the main problem with influence encounters is that a larger party size is treated the same as a stronger party, which is not the case. Yes, 5 people can make more checks than 4 people. The encounter should be adjusted for that. But in my case, three people get +1 to their skills. That could turn a fail into a success (or a success into a crit success), but that does not warrant a higher success threshold (as my math above indicates)

    Other scenarios typically give 6 rounds of influence checks, with one fewer round per player above 4. That seems reasonable (4 and 6 players get a total of 24 checks each, 5 players get a slight bonus with 25 checks). But flat out increasing the number of successes needed regardless of player count does not work. And hell, some scenarios even do both. I get that if you have two level 4s and two level 1s, you should alter the DCs a little. But in general, I feel picking one or the other gives a better result than a blanket "increase the threshold by X."

    I get that you don't want to get too granular, so in a hypothetical situation of two level 1s and three level 3, there is no ideal middle ground, but an easy fix would be to not give a set DC, but a DC based on that party member's level. A level 1 character would roll against DC 16, a level 3 character against DC 19, or simply noted as level+1. This keeps the difficulty level, well, level, while giving options for additional party members. Makes it a little more difficult for the GM, as they have to cross-reference the player's level versus the scaling DC, but leads to better results, IMHO. The only downside is that you're supposed to be better at things as you level up, and the DC increases at the same pace as you do, so you're technically getting better at the skill. I still think this is a better solution than the current system, though. If the adventures were a single tier, this would've been so much easier. Then you can just adjust for player count, not necessarily for player strength (four level 2s will fare better than four level 1s, but that's fine, IMHO). For social encounters, at least.

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    As I reread the thread, I saw that my first point was also already raised by Hartan.

    Ran this yesterday, encountered a problem I hadn't thought of while prepping it: what does "win over an NPC" (during the influence encounter) entail? Because depending on how you interpret that, things can get incredibly difficult. Reaching Influence 2, where they'll spill the beans and point you in the right direction, is already pretty difficult (certainly doable, but undoubtedly difficult) with all NPCs. But if it's the last influence threshold (4, or 8 for Fidero) with all of them is nearly impossible.

    In my case, I had three players at level 4, one player at 3. That's 22 CP, so +1 influence point threshold. If they needed 3 influence points with each NPC (5 for the captain), that breaks down to the following:
    16 checks total
    Three times 3 influence points, plus one time 5 influence points, so 9+5=14 influence points needed.
    So, assuming they skip the Discovery checks altogether and immediately go to influencing, they can only fail twice. Or they can try a difficult Medicine check to immediately gain 4 points with the captain, which means 11 successful checks out of 16. And that's only to reach the middle threshold, again with skipping all the Discovery checks. If every NPC gets Discovered at least once, you can miss a single check.

    If they actually need to reach the final influence threshold to be considered "won over," that's literally only possible in the low tier. With a full party of six level 1s, you'd get 24 checks to get 3x5 +1x9 (low tier says for every 2 points above 10, while the smallest possible party starts at 8 challenge points, meaning there's no difference between 8 and 10 challenge points), is exactly 24 points. All checks need to go directly to influence, and not a single fail (or a few crits).

    Furthermore, the Captain's DCs are way too difficult. I get that he's sick and hard to interact with, but this is ridiculous. A typical level 1 DC is 15. The literal easiest DC to influence him is DC 20, going as high as 24. That's simply not feasible. I know it's expected to not get full treasure bundles all the time, but the combination of higher DCs as well as higher influence thresholds means the captain is basically a lost cause, without the players knowing.

    TL;DR: Influence thresholds seem difficult to reach with only four rounds, captain is unfeasibly difficult for this level.

    ---

    Constructive criticism: when I played this, my GM didn't give the captain as an option at first, and introduced him as part of the influence rounds. It made the investigation feel more natural, rather than introducing three NPCs on the deck and oh yeah, there's a sick captain inside. I really liked that. You'd have to fit him in the narrative organically, but I feel it enhances the story.
    Hell, my GM scrapped the influence system entirely and just made us roll checks organically, cutting us off at a certain point. That's a bit more difficult to do and I wouldn't advise it for everyone, but it really helped the narrative, rather than going "okay, here's today's minigame" all of a sudden.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    There's no full rest, just a quick trip to town to drop off Kka and pick up a new team member.

    I'm guessing you put the hood back on Murmur to disguise her somewhat. She would cause quite a stir if it became known there's a medusa in town. The priests of Erastil will babysit her until you're back.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    As you stand close to the spider's territory, the spider clicks and hisses as it senses your ill intent. It spits a glob of venom at you as a warning, which catches Kka straight in the face. She shrieks as the venom burns her eyes, and you quickly retreat. Cherry Berry does a quick round of first aid, but after half an hour, Kka's eyes are still swollen shut. Between Kka and Cherry Berry's combined expertise, you come to the conclusion that Kka needs long-term medical care, or she could lose her vision permanently. So you go back to Otari and see if the church of Erastil can take care of her.

    As you're in town, rumour quickly spreads that one of Otari's heroes is gravely injured, and a throng of people gathers around Kka's sickbed, asking when she'll be better and what happens to vanquishing Belcorra now that Kka's incapacitated. The head priest of the church shoos everyone away, saying Kka needs rest and is forbidden from adventuring for the near future. The crowd slowly dissipates, leaving behind a familiar figure...

    Farol, this is your cue.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Free archetype rule, and I made a small addition to it: You can have different "tracks" for your archetypes, allowing you two archetypes at the same time. I hope this makes sense:
    - Free archetype feats have to be archetype feats. No double-dipping on class feats.
    - Your regular class feats can become archetype feats, including free archetype ones, or start a new archetype.

    For instance, if your Free Archetype is Acrobat, you can choose Celebrity Dedication as your normal class feat. Free Archetype feats can be spent on Celebrity or Acrobat feats, but not on main class feats. You still must choose three archetype feats before grabbing a new archetype.

    Needlessly complicated? Yes. But it allows for a little more variation, if people need it.

    I'm fine with most uncommon options, just let me know beforehand. I doubt I'll veto them, I just want a heads up. Definitely let me know if you're looking ar Rare options.

    Normal gold for level 8.

    Preferably choose a background from the AP, if it makes sense. Ties you a little bit more to the story.


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    A flying familiar is especially helpful for scouting purposes, as they tend to be less conspicuous than PCs. They're great for utility purposes, if you're a little creative. Delivering a letter, fetching something from a distance, and so on.

    Default familiars have two abilities, I believe. You select these abilities from a list, and any abilities the creature would innately have, you have to choose first. So a parrot familiar would have the Speech and Flying abilities, for example. A monkey would have manual dexterity and a climb speed. If you have leftover abilities, you can give them other abilities as well, so you can have a talking bee, or give it darkvision. Important to know is that you can swap out these abilities each day, so you can have a talking bee one day, and one that resists fire the next. Discuss with your GM if you want your familiar to have specific abilities, but don't have the "slots" for it.

    There are also "Master abilities" that allow you to do something, such as access to an extra cantrip, or look through your familiar's eyes. These work the same as the normal familiar abilities, in that you select them each day, just that they give you an extra ability, rather than your familiar.

    There are feats and classes that increase the number of abilities your familiar has. The Witch starts with four abilities instead of two, and Enhanced Familiar does the same.

    You can have specific familiars with special abilities if you have a certain number of abilities. For instance, a Mood Cloud requires you to have 3 abilities (so only available to Witches or if you take Enhanced Familiar), and comes with two of these abilities "pre-installed."

    Familiars don't act in combat by default. You can give them a command as one action to give them two actions. The Independent ability gives them one free action each turn. They're (usually) not designed for combat, as they have terrible HP and no attacks. A familiar uses your AC and saves as its own AC and saves.

    If you want an insect familiar, this is how I'd set it up:
    - Give it the Flier ability for 25 fly speed. This one is mandatory.
    - Give it one other ability of your choice. Independent, Manual Dexterity, and Speech are generally good ones, but depending on what you want, you can give it other abilities.
    That's it! You now have a flying insect familiar! If you want to give your familiar more abilities, take the Familiar Master dedication, or ask your GM if you can take Enhanced Familiar as a class feat.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Is that your way of saying you want to leave, or just chiming in they're a good addition?

    I agree, I've played with Farol for a few games, both a great GM and player.


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    Slides Loot sheet
    Kvit the Ruin Delver wrote:
    One thing I can do is try to post if I'm waiting on someone else, for more clarification, have nothing to add, planned update time, etc. (instead of not posting)

    Yeah, this is a good suggestion. I hope this also incentivises people to post more, even an "busy right now, hope to post tomorrow/the day after" would be helpful. And indeed, an "I have nothing/don't want to add anything" also helps to know people are at least keeping an eye on things, and is hopefully low effort enough that it doesn't feel like a burden to people.

    Indeed, I would like unanimous agreement on adding a new player. But in case Cherry Berry agrees, I'd like to provide a little more information on the NPCs I mentioned earlier so maybe Farol can start brewing. Or they can make their own character, I just think it's cool if it's a character you've already met.

    - The party "freed" a couple of mitflits on the first level, and they've been running around the Fogfen, and they became a recurring background thing in the first book, after which I faded them out. I think I had one turn into a Druid/Ranger type with a pet bear. The other two I don't remember as much. A morlock tinkerer joined that party after level 2, and I had him pegged as an Inventor.
    - You're already familiar with Dorianna Menhemes. She's a latent Psychic, but a Summoner would be cool too.
    - The party found a loophole and managed to keep Carman Rajani alive. He's been rebuilding the Danwflower Library after he set part of it on fire, and he has a bit of a redemption arc. He's a Rogue type, but I could see any martial working for him. In the adventure he fights with a longsword and can throw light hammers.
    - You seemed to have an interest in the wolf guy. The party failed their knowledge checks, so they don't know this, but he's a werewolf (beastkin would also work as a PC) and a murderer who fled into Gauntlight a long time ago. He has a pet wolf (but if you don't want a wolf, you can leave him at home) and fights with katars. He's officially a Druid, but I can see Ranger working for him as well. He's escaped Gauntlight and is now harassing a Druid group nearby, eating their sheep. They've requested that Cherry Berry deal with him, but we never got to that part. Could maybe also give Cherry Berry a reason to interact more and be less passive, if they're okay with that.
    - The level the party is currently on is full of drow, caligni, and an urdefhan. There's no playable ancestry for them, so we'll have to homebrew something, but they could definitely tag along.
    - The party just picked up a Feebleminded medusa. They could break the curse and have her join. Typically medusas fight with a bow, but any weapon would work, really.
    - Mister Beak, from all the way back at level 1 is a goblin named Borbo that's been put in a soul gem. Lough has kept it around and used it as a power source for his mechanical arm. Lough could maybe construct a full body for him if you're interested.
    - There's a bar a few levels back that has plenty of people you could pick up. There's a drider, several morlocks, a few of those augmented morlocks, and the band Shadow Malice, consisting of a xulgath, duergar, caligni, and a ratfolk. They could be great Warrior Bards. Most of them have some band-related custom moves I'd be happy to share with you.

    Any of these pique your interest? Again, you can also make your own character, but these could be introduced a little more naturally. You could also be a prisoner on the next level, but that would mean waiting for a bit until the party reaches you, which might not be ideal.

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    PFS1 pretty much always included optional encounters, which I really liked. I kinda miss them in PFS2, but Darrell makes a good point about consumables. I think PFS2 is lighter on the consumables, but still. Sometimes you have a longer slot, or the dice go well, and you have an extra 45 minutes to spare. A little extra encounter would be nice to have. But that's also extra pressure on the author to include them, something that they don't always have space/time for.

    On the other side of the coin (and this is more for Pathfinder than Starfinder): any easy solution would be to "downgrade" one existing encounter to optional. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the word count is the same between PFS1 and PFS2, so essentially they should also have the same amount of encounters and alotted time. I have often run short of time due to slow play or newbies that need rules explanations. A clear-cut indication of "you can skip this encounter if you want to" would be nice to have, and would be cool if scenarios were designed with that goal in mind.


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    Slides Loot sheet
    Kvit the Ruin Delver wrote:
    GM Kwinten wrote:


    The carvings are in Elven, which no one can read.

    Kvit can with Strange Script

    Ah, sorry! On the plus side, they were instructions on how to move the boulder, but they're intentionally wrong, so you'd set off the trap and warn the people on the other side of your arrival. :P

    ---

    Kka, your tone is very threatening for someone not wanting to roll an Intimidation check. I'm not gonna penalise you for it, but I will warn you that she might not like that tone.

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    My harpy example was just an example, it doesn't matter whether they have those specific tactics in this case or not. Like I said, it's about keeping the experience the same across the globe. If one person runs the singing harpies and someone else uses the diseased harpies, that's not the same experience. That's the part that matters.


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    My problem with letting it depend on intent is that it allows for variation within the same action. If I'm summoning to use their Heal spells is clearly not hostile, but summoning for damage is, it feels weird to give different results to the same action. Or what if, after two rounds of healing, there is nothing left to heal, and you then use it to fight? That wasn't the original intent, but hey, it's here now, might as well use it.

    Or if I'm invisible and blocking a door or passageway. I'm not actively harming anyone by not letting them past, but I'm definitely impeding them. Is "being in the way" a good enough qualifier for a hostile action?

    If a rule requires this much interpretation and double-think, I prefer to view it as simple as possible until given evidence otherwise.


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    SuperBidi wrote:


    Ravingdork raised a similar argument: What if my character doesn't realize they're harming people even when they obviously do so?

    That would mean a super dumb or ignorant person (very low WIS, maybeceven Feebleminded) would never break Invisibility. Someone with the intelligence of baby pressing the self-destruct button should definitely be considered hostile, even if they don't know what the shiny red light does.

    Okay, extreme example, but still. Ignorance can only go so far as an excuse. A young child swinging scissors around might do so out of ignorance, but would definitely be considered dangerous. If you hurt something, it's hostile.


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    Finoan wrote:
    Hostile Action wrote:
    For instance, casting fireball into a crowd would be a hostile action, but opening a door and accidentally freeing a horrible monster wouldn’t be.

    Is opening a door a hostile action?

    If you are doing it for the lols, no.

    If you are doing it to let your ally into the room so that they can start beating on people, yes.

    If you are doing it so that you can sneak away after a successful burglary of a room, no.

    If you are opening the door thinking that you are just trying to escape, but accidentally release a ravening monster that comes into the room and starts wrecking things, still no. Because the intent to do harm wasn't there.

    My rule is: does the action you're performing right now cause any direct harm to, or impact in any way, the thing you're doing it to? Yes, the intent behind opening a door might be malicious, but other than regular wear and tear on the door, nobody gets hurt by that action. Stealing keys, a potion, or a coin purse? Not harmed in the sense of HP loss, but it's definitely a negative effect. Same as an Intimidate or casting a Slow spell: a direct debuff and status effect onto the opponent is most definitely a hostile effect.

    Opening a door breaking Invisibility is ridiculous, under any circumstance. Yes, rules are muddy in some cases, but it's clear-cut here: opening a door is not harmful to the door. If I'm under Invisibility and accidentally step on an ant, that's not harmful. Yes, I just killed a (regular-sized) ant, but that's practically unavoidable. If any action that might eventually lead to harm would break invisibility, then invisibility would pretty much be broken immediately. Casting Bless on my party to boost their chances of hitting you? Yep. Walking towards someone with the intent to harm them? Yep. Unsheathing my sword? Yep. Stand completely still while invisible, so someone accidentally bumps into me? Yep.

    In fact, pretty much anything could be considered "hostile" that way. Casting Heal or Oaken Might on someone to survive more blows would be considered hostile. If all of that is considered "hostile," which actions are you still allowed to perform then? a simple Calm spell would be about as effective as a Paralyze spell, which is one rank higher (the only difference being that the target can still move with Calm).

    In PF1, was always considered summoning non-harmful. You don't roll an attack roll, you don't force any saves, and so on. Yes, the thing you summoned is definitely harmful, but that's indirectly. I've seen several written encounters hinge upon the fact (and specifically spell out) that buffing allies or summoning does not break the spell. That seems clear enough to me. In fact, a Lilend Azata was most often summoned for their bardic performance or healing abilities, despite being decent with a longsword as well. Would Invisibility pop when using it to intend harm, but not when used as an additional healbot?

    Grabbing someone to prevent them from falling into a pit, while noble and the intent behind it is definitely non-harmful: giving someone the Grabbed consition is harmful, easy as that. Transforming the ground to mud to cause difficult terrain is not doing anything harmful to anyone. Yes, it's annoying, but no one is directly harmed by it. Summoning a creature into being does not directly impact anyone, so that wouldn't be considered a hostile action.

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    I have mostly low-level experience in PFS2, but I've played in several APs now that went to high level, and I've only encountered one PC death, and that was against a double crit failed Phantasmal Killer. Conversely, deaths in PFS1 weren't exactly common, but at least a realistic thing to happen to you, I feel. Nearly all of my Society characters have died at least once, or at least half of them.

    I've seen plenty of people go down, and back up again (in both editions). It's just that the removal of "negative CON = death" makes survival so much easier. So often you just accidentally get crit, or take an unlucky blow in PF1 that just leaves you at an unfortunate amount of HP.

    I'd say PFS2 isn't necessarily less deadly, it's just easier to recover from a dying condition.


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    Slides Loot sheet
    Cherry Berry wrote:
    Coincidence I think. At least it wasn't pre-planned."

    I recently heard this: "Luck is when planning meets opportunity." (Or the other way around, dunno if that matters) I don't know if I ascribe to that, but it certainly applies here. You made good use of the opportunity, and that really helped in the fight. That deserves praise. :)

    Kvit the Ruin Delver wrote:
    Definitely some good synergies this combat. Was cool to see. Though it would be nice if Kvit could hit the broadside of a barn.

    That thing had an AC of 32. Cherry Berry needed to roll a 17 to hit, and I presume you do, too. That miss wasn't your fault, it's just got an absurd AC for casters. You're missing out on runes and no flanking/off-guard, that's just crap. That ray would've made quite an impact, it just doesn't work well on boss-like creatures.

    Kka opens the door to see how Murmur is doing. You see her staring in amazement at the giant spider to the east dragging off the fungus corpse back to its lair. "Mrrmrr.. Chkk prrroi wee."

    She notices you and waves, then points back at the spider. "Drrrp plak?"

    I'm having fun making up sounds for Murmur. :)


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Kka, I just noticed you counted the Gloom Blade as a +2 weapon, but that's only in dim light or darkness. So it's only a +1, making your last attack a miss. But because it's a nat 20, that becomes a regular hit. I should've corrected you sooner on that, my bad.

    Kka hesitates slightly as doubt washes over her, but doesn't let that slow her down. She chops three times, and after her third strike, the nilith falls to the ground, dead. Combat over! No need for those saves anymore.

    Hero Point for everyone! Realised I forgot to hand them out this level so far.

    I presume everyone heals up now? Kka heals 16 more hit points thanks to Lough, but Lough and Cherry Berry are still hurt. That also means the Shield Other ends.

    Cherry Berry's Protector Tree remains standing. In this pseudo-forested room it looks like it'll survive.

    You look through the room, and you find some treasure hidden behind some vines. You find a bag with 253 sp, three topaz gemstones worth 60 gp each, a thundering runestone, and a moderate bravo’s brew.

    Also, I wanted to praise you for your teamwork. Lough's free sustain allowed Cherry Berry to use Evangelise, which in combination with their Soothing Words allowed Kka to just make the save, not becoming slowed. :)


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Ah, sorry, poor phrasing on my part. I agree that half of 19 is 9. I was just wondering how that 9 is split. But upon reading the spell, it clearly says this:
    The target takes half damage from all effects that deal Hit Point damage, and you take the remainder of the damage.

    Half of 9 rounded down is 4. Ths remainder is 5, which goes to Cherry Berry. So technically you get 1 HP back, but I'll leave it as is for now.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Thanks for the correction! Read too quickly, assumed it was on self. Edited post.

    Grand Archive

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    Male Forge Dwarf | Bard 4 | HP 46/46 | AC 21 | tF +7 eR +11 eW +8 | speed 25 ft | ePerc +8 | Hero Point 0/3 | Focus: 1/1 | Spells: 1: 2/3 2: 2/3| Spell DC 18 | active condition: | Exploration activity: Search | Provision: lesser healing potion (unused)

    GM posted on Cottonseed that he's burnt out and he's looking for a replacement. We have a potential GM, but he wants to be done before March 2nd, so that might be a bit fast.

    GM, take your time, and thank you for the effort put in so far. I'll happily take over if you need me to, but that would mean I drop as a player. Would the rest be okay with that?

    EDIT: I see Jinlong also offered to step up to GM, so we have at least three potential GMs.

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    Just checking, "Aslan" is meant to be "Aslynn," right? Unless we have a Narnia crossover planned. :P


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Just a small correction since Kvit seems to be mixing them up: there are monsters behind the barricade. The urdefhan are one level below.

    "We sent several troops past the barricade. Very few came back. There's a giant cavern, with bioluminescent fungi, and several creatures have each claimed a corner of the cavern. There seem to be some mad-made structures, or at least doors into the walls, but we have no idea what's in there. We never made it that far. As for the creatures in there," she tallies them off on her fingers, "there's the giant spider. As in, immensely big. Each leg is bigger than a person. Then there's the tentacle monster in the lake to the west. We haven't seen its full size yet, but it has several long limbs that snatch us off the shore from quite a distance. Then the giant stinky death-lizard - not quite as big as the other two, but twice as fierce. The floating mushrooms themselves aren't that big of a threat, but the spores they release hurt like a mother, and the even bigger floating fungus with tentacles is even worse. Those shrooms are pretty slow, so you can outrun them, but they have quite a reach.

    "Honestly, the urdefhan are a bloodthirsty bunch, but at least they give us a mercy killing. What's on the other side of that barricade isn't as forgiving."


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    I mean, Gisher exaggerated, but he makes a good point. Our characters might be aware of things our players aren't and vice versa. Overlaying game rules onto a fictional world requires some suspension of disbelief, and I think experienced players are just more familiar with the constraints and "invisible walls" than new players. I don't mean to say new players are bad at it, they just aren't (completely) aware of the social contract. It might feel natural from a game perspective to not squeeze every bonus out of a situation, but in the fiction, in a life-or-death situation, you'll grab every bonus you can get. And it's up to the players, not the characters, to adjudicate how far you wanna go.


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    I like to think that characters that are new to each other, such as at the start of a campaign, aren't a well-oiled machine yet, and play suboptimally for two reasons:
    - To show off their characters. They do a thing two or three times to show their standard modus operandi, then slowly phase it out as other players get the vibe.
    - They don't know how the others work. Yeah, someone might keep out of the frontlines because they're relatively squishy, they could also just be playing a sensible character. Besides, so many classes aren't made for the frontline, so it's not weird to stay on the edges of a fight. Once a character knows "hey, this person's much more effective when they're flanking, maybe I should set up a flank for them," they might start discussing tactics or opening moves.

    I get what the player is doing with feinting: they're showing off what they can do. But on the other hand, as others have also said, it's not metagaming to know there's only one penalty for being distracted. Maybe in a more rules-light game you could make the two effects stack, but not in PF2e. Yes, you don't have to squeeze out every +1 you can get or be as efficient with your actions as possible, but that shouldn't get in the way of basic combat.

    I have two stories I'd like to share, both from PFS:
    - Back in PF1, two people rocked up. A Bard (I think) and her bodyguard (Barbarian). All the bodyguard did was stand in front of the Bard and, well, bodyguard. No rage, no attacks, just full defense every single round. She was just a bag of HP. She would only rage and attack once the Bard got hurt. Which, considering it was a backline Bard, rarely happened. I get that it's in theme for you, but you're actively not contributing to the fight, and it was frustrating to me, because she did add to the challenge. But it made sense for her character, so it also felt wrong to speak to her about it.
    - A guy popped up with a knife-throwing Rogue. Literally all he did in combat was throw daggers from 30 foot distance, as he didn't want to be in danger. +4 DEX, +0 STR, so he did 4 damage a round, max, unless he won initiative and got a one-time 1d6 sneak attack. If he hit at all, that is, since daggers have a 10 foot range and he was taking -2s left and right for no reason whatsoever. Turns out in his friend group they all play very rules-light and low power, it's more about the story than the combat. All completely fine, but he just didn't adapt to the PFS mentality where it's a group effort and things are a bit more hardcore than he's used to. Ine one fight, of our party of four, two people were knocked out, only he and the other Rogue were still standing. He hasn't flanked all scenario. Boss is breathing down the other Rogue's neck, who is standing at a handful of hit points. Other Rogue couldn't flank, and he's doing 2 damage a round. Guy says, "I throw a dagger and run away." (he's at full HP, by the way) We literally had to stop the scenario and say that if he didn't get his ass into melee, we'd all die. "Yeah, but this is what I would do." Eventually we managed to persuade him and he grumbled about being told what to do, but we barely won.
    That guy is still playing that awful character. He's level 4 now, doing 2d4 a round with his Striking daggers, against enemies with 30+ HP. We all dread playing with him, but he doesn't seem to understand why.

    Bottom line of these two stories: "It's what my character would do" is fun at the start and in low-stakes situations but players (and characters) should adapt to the group. It's a team game, and you cannot do your own thing if it is actually in the way of the group dynamic.

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    Ascalaphus wrote:
    PF2 chases seem to be a clever worker placement game, where you carefully figure out which PC should be doing which check, and who should be staying in reserve for the next obstacle. But it just doesn't really pan out. People don't understand, or don't really want to agonize over that kind of choice, or the GM isn't letter you look ahead to the next obstacle so it's a blind choice. All in all, the worker placement aspect of the minigame is a dud.

    I've seen the reverse to be also true. I've had players with bad/few skills go first because they knew they couldn't clear the obstacle in one go. Going after the rest would only cost them their precious victories, while I ruled you couldn't go into the negatives (can't have -1 chase points). The people without the appropriate skill go first, then the skilled people. If the obstacle wasn't cleared, they'd go in reverse, hoping they clear the obstacle before the differently skilled people crit fail again.

    "Looking ahead" isn't in the rules by RAW (as far as I can find), but seems reasonable. That makes the decision process a lot easier, but doesn't help if you're also bad in those skills.

    My main issue with skill challenges is that I've seen a lot of players who just don't have a lot of skills, or have a wonky stat distribution so that they don't have backup skills. I've seen several Barbarians or Fighters with +4 STR, +3 CON, which leaves only two or three more stat increases across four stats. Plus, they tend to favour Athletics since that's their only STR skill, which leaves only two more skills they most likely only have a +1 in. Rolling at a +3 or +4 at best while others are rocking a +6 or +7 just doesn't feel like you're contributing. I know, it's a conscious choice when you make such a stat spread, but that's objectively the "best" way to make a Barbarian. Go have fun with your skill challenges when you only have one "good" skill.
    I like skill challenges, and they've been streamlined a lot, but I think it's still easy to be dead weight (or worse, a detriment) in some skill challenges when everyone HAS to compete.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    I have no idea how long it takes to retrain a class. I just grabbed "one week" as an arbitrary, yet appropriate-sounding number of days. You don't have to convince me, but your fellow players, that you need an X amount of days off.

    Maybe 7 days is too short to retrain a class, but I didn't want to let the in-game clock keep on ticking too much. This keeps the pace at least a little brisk, I think.

    Lough: Level 8 gp is 300, right? So 900 gp total. Chronicle is uploaded HERE!


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    Morliblint is an odd shopkeeper. He keeps hovering around Kvit and asks rather personal questions about your time in the Abomination Vaults. He makes notes of your answers and carefully tucks away the notebook after he's done asking questions, but nervously avoids answering any questions about his behaviour.

    Carman Rajani hangs out around the Dawnflower Library repairing any damages. He seems happy to be doing something constructive for once, and is blissfully unaware of the fate he narrowly avoided. While the Dawnflower librarians treat him with respect, you do notice their hands keep hovering near their sheathed scimitars, just in case. The Sarenrites are big about forgiveness and second chances, but nearly burning down their church clearly leaves some scars.


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    Cherry Berry: 52 xp means level 5 with one chronicle, right? So two times level 5 gp, one time level 6 gp.

    Chronicles can be found HERE! They'll be up there for a while, I usually empty the folder when I hand out new chronicles. I'm currently not running any online games, so they'll be up there for a while. Let me know if they're funky, last time people had trouble viewing the numbers I entered.

    Kvit: I'm fine with you retraining to Incredible Initiative. Thanks for warning me. :)

    Anyone else's initiatives change, other than the regular +1?

    5/5 **** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

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    I'm always torn between letting the unknown be unknown - there is so much to explore already! - but on the other hand, that's where you get cool stuff. Arcadia feels like forbidden terrain, since so little has been done with it, but on the other hand, Bhopan was really fun. I'd say peel away those layers slowly. Revealing too much ruins the mystique.

    I expect Kyonin to change after the Spore War AP. But yeah, Kyonin has been vastly underexplored.

    Not sure what to do with Hermea (currently almost in the final book of a certain AP), but it definitely sounds interesting.

    I'd like more aquatic-themed adventures (not necessarily underwater, though that is an option). Not too many, but having to deal with different environments is fun. A change of scenery and different problems to solve. It's just that underwater poses a lot of challenges to unprepared PCs.

    I haven't seen much of Tar-Baphon, despite him being free. He's just sitting there (I know there's a high-level scenario revolving around him soon). I would've expected to see more of him in the last five years.

    Maybe more exotic places, even within the Inner Sea? The Mana Wastes, Nex, or Geb been left relatively untouched. Realm of the Mammoth Lords and megafauna are always fun. Numeria and its death robots, gloomy Nidal, or some classic horror in Ustalav. Or more hobgoblin goodness in Oprak. Thuvia and the Sun Orchid, or the Sodden Lands and pirates in the Shackles. And of course New Thassilon!
    Basically, most of the adventures lately (I feel) have been relatively traditionally Western fantasy. I'd like something that pushes into an interesting direction.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Congrats, Kvit!

    Kka Magwi wrote:
    I quite enjoyed this last level. I got to RP more than usual and it was nice to figure out ways of getting through encounters without having to get into a slugfest. I really like it when I can lean into Kka’s Intimidation abilities.

    Yeah, I was quite happy with how well-balanced this level was. A few tough fights (Cherry Berry blew through four of their Heals), but also lots of opportunity for RP and skill checks here and there. And enough variety that neither got stale. Also helps that this was quite a short level, so quality over quantity, whereas the previous level was the other way around, I feel.

    Cherry Berry wrote:

    I'm more than happy to keep going, though a lot of the time I fear I am not contributing much rp.

    Cherry does need to rebuild a couple of feats though. I picked up Reach Spell meta-magic two levels ago through the Druid Archetype and have never remembered to use it. (Admittedly, ditto the Leshy Familiar.)

    I should probably retrain the meta-magic into Basic Druid Spellcrafting and at least add a couple of extra spells-per-day.

    I also need some proper advice on 4th level spells, as I now have three slots of them and have never used them.

    Don't worry about needing to contribute. You mentioned before that your life is hectic, I understand completely. Feel free to contribute as much as you're comfortable with. No shame in takign a little time off for yourself. That's actually kinda how I see Cherry Berry: staying in the background until things (are about to) go horribly wrong, and piping up with a clever comment. And we've got three other weirdos to pick up the RP, so don't worry about not pulling your weight. You're doing absolutely fine.

    Feel free to retrain some feats, I'm cool with that.

    As for spells.. Not entirely familiar with fourth-rank spells, but the ones that pop out to me:
    - Air Walk is a good utility spell. Creatures start to fly a lot now, so being able to chase after them is good. Maybe a bit of overlap with Kvit's Levitate, though.
    - Divine Wrath is a "safe" Fireball that only hits enemies, with a nice debuff attached as well. Only downside is that 4d10 can be a bit swingy. You could end up doing 5 damage if the dice roll poorly.
    - Enervation might be a bit difficult to place, but I've seen it do a lot of work.
    - Pernicious Poltergeist is a sustained spell, but has a lot of flexibility and is quite powerful.
    - Vital Beacon is an interesting healing spell. It's not as good as a Heal spell in a single round, but you can fire it off in the morning and have four single-action healing actions that either you or an ally can perform. Don't know if it's worth it as a Cleric, as you already have Heals, but I like the spell in concept.

    You could also see about heightening lower-rank spells.
    - Dispel Magic will always be awesome to have when faced with a spellcaster or a nasty effect.
    - Holy Light does a ton of damage. Needs a to hit roll though, and your rolls have been bad, but that's bound to end eventually.
    - Agonizing Despair might not be up your alley, but I thought I'd mention it.


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Also, Lough wanted to change class into the Exemplar. I haven't looked into it yet, but I think I'm fine with it. But I'd like to ask the other players to weigh in as well. I'd like an unanimous vote on if it's okay for Lough to change classes.


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    Ding! You're level up!

    This also concludes book 2 of the Abomination Vaults! Time for a check-in with everyone.

    First off, I'd like to thank everyone for sticking with the campaign for so long. We've been going for three years now, which is incredible. I'm really happy to GM for you and I love all of your characters.

    Do you have any feedback for me? Positive, negative, everything is appreciated.

    Anything else you want to say? To me, to the other players, to the endless void that encroaches upon us all?

    Last level, we mentioned the possibility of maybe quitting the campaign. We've been playing for three years, and most of our lives have changed. I am still 100% committed to running for you if you want to, but I understand if people have had enough.
    This was a relatively quick level. Lots of social encounters (I made some slightly more talktative than scripted, but not much), and big rooms. Previous level was in retrospect indeed way too long, with too many tiny rooms holding us up. I should've cut a few more combats there, I think. I haven't looked too far ahead into book 3 yet, but I can tell there's at least one level with similar denseness as level 6. But I know now how much is reasonable and I'll be cutting more combats to keep things going smoothly. We've done two books in three years now. But with me working now and having less time to post, I think the final book would take about two more years to complete, maybe slightly less if I'm more judiciously cutting combats.

    As for Society play, you've earned your chronicle sheets. If you want to know before you assign the sheet so you can maybe build your character around it, this chronicle unlocks the Eldritch Researcher archetype for your character, as well as "certain spells" from the book. Which are probably Daydreamer's Curse and Savant's Curse, which aren't too exciting.
    There's also several Keepsakes on the sheet. Keepsakes are items where you can buy only one of the options listed and cross off the others. So if you buy option A, you can't buy option B. Your Keepsakes are the Cooperative Blade, a drover's band, the hunter's brooch, ichthyosis mutagen, and the sloughing toxin (the way I read it, you can buy multiple of the same consumable).
    Regular items on the sheet are the battle lute, folding drums, and the tamchal chakram.
    (Sorry for no links, at work right now and it blocks the website.)


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    People have already made really helpful comments, but I'd like to add some more:

    - Yes, it feels a bit frustrating that "excelling" at something means you only have like a 50%-60% shot at succeeding. I admit, it's something you have to get used to. There's no real solution to that, other than using teamwork. Debuffing enemies and buffing your allies really helps, a lot.
    - Enemies have high to hits. But that's by design. Unlike in PF1, they're not built like PCs, meaning they get a lot more power budget. You will most likely get hit by the enemy's first attack. The trick is action denial and making sure their second hit will miss. Knocking an enemy prone means they have to waste an action standing up, which they then can't use to attack. If you have three actions and you stand in reach of an enemy, hit once, raise your shield (or try a second attack), then move away. That way, the enemy can't just wail on you three times. PF2 is a much more tactical game than PF1, and can punish bad plays a lot more. But conversely, smart plays will reward you all the more as well.
    - Similarly, enemy saves are (usually) pretty high as well. That's again where debuffing comes in. You're forced to work together to make things stick. Some people like that, and some people don't. Enemies will rarely crit fail a save, but with effective debuffing, you can swing that in your favour. But I agree that it feels like crit fails feel more designed for players than for enemies, and that's something you have to accept. But when those crit fails do happen, whoo boy.
    - With high enemy AC, don't expect to attack three times and hit three times as well. Most enemies have an AC where you have, again, a 50%-60% chance of hitting on your first attack. The -5 multiple attack penalty means the second attack only has a roughly 25% chance of connecting, unless you swing the odds in your favour. I usually only attack a second time when I am reasonably sure I have a chance of connecting. Otherwise, do something that makes the life of the enemy harder: move away, raise shield, debuff (demoralise is a really good aciton). Flanking means that 25% rises to a 35%. A simple debuff makes that 40%. Those are decent odds.

    Finally, I think Pathfinder Second Edition is just a tough game. Like other people said, you're not superheroes. But it can be if you want it to be. If you find things are too tough, ask your GM to tone things down a little. Lower DCs by 2 or 3, use the Weak template on enemies, and you'll have a much more enjoyable time if you just want to stomp enemies. And there's nothing wrong with wanting that, it's just that 2e expects a grittier game than you're used to/want.


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    You lucky motherfluffer. You barely beat his Will DC.

    At Cherry Berry's comment, Urevian's smile broadens. "That's what I like to see. Jolly cooperation at last. I'm sure we can figure this out together." He snaps his fingers and a contract appears in his hands. He holds it out for you to read. It's a long and complicated contract, but the gist of it is this:
    - Urevian is to amass his forces all the way to Absalom and conquer it (Otari wasn't founded by this point, so technically Otari is safe, but is on the path to Absalom).
    - Urevian's reward will be "The Rajani soul." Upon receiving his reward, his duty is considered fulfilled and he is free to go.
    - It does not stipulate that Belcorra has to hand him the soul, but none of his minions, or anyone allied with Belcorra is supposed to hand him the reward.

    You could try a Legal Lore, Devil Lore, Religion or Society lore to maybe find a loophole, or come up with something yourself.

    Then Kka opens her beak and intimidates a freaking devil into cooperating. You see his demeanour genuinely drop from feigned hospitality to slight unease.

    "I've considered the death angle, yes. But alas, if you were to permanently lay Belcorra's soul to rest, I simply have no one to relieve me of my duty. I'll be forced to attempt to conquer this island until the end of times.

    "This was supposed to take a few decades at most, but due to some setbacks I've been at it for more than five hundred years. And believe me, I wish I could get out of this contract as much as you do, maybe even more. I've already looked for any loopholes I can find, but so far I've come up empty. I barely even want the soul anymore, but pride compels me to try. Sunk cost and all that."


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    Slides Loot sheet

    Sorry, didn't want to direct the narrative too much and let you ask for things naturally.

    - Religion on the creatures.
    - Religion or Arcana on the portal.
    - Crafting or Nature on the magma.
    - A Nature check for the ceiling.
    - A DC 0 Nature check to know that magma is hot and falling into it is bad for you.


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    Any more responses?

    Hero Point to everyone for some cool and interesting RP!


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    Adventures have "fight to the death" as a default option I find, because that's the easiest way of dealing with them, from an author's point of view. Especially named NPCs or people who know the BBEG's plot could throw a wrench in the plans if they were to survive and spill the beans.

    Plus, imagine an adventure where the author keeps track of every NPC after that encounter. The further you are in the story, the more elaborate the web of possible interactions becomes. An author might throw in an "if X is alive at this point, you can replace one random mook with X," but authors have limited time and resources available to them. Much easier to pass that job on to the GM, even if that seems lazy. I'd rather build that web myself than be overloaded with information from the get-go with flowcharts of which NPCs might do what, most of which becomes irrelevant when NPCs die.

    For example, imagine four random unrelated NPCs that could potentially interact with each other, and might want revenge on the players. An author has to account for whether that person is alive or dead, and if they're alive, if they're free to do whatever or are thrown in jail.
    A is free.
    B is in jail.
    C is dead.

    A has several options:
    - Break out B.
    - Potentially resurrect C and join up with them. Or if resurrecting isn't an option, join up with C's family members, friends, colleagues, and so on.
    - Join up with B and C.

    Similarly, B might do the same, but has to plan from jail. Which requires a separate text explaining how they accomplish that. And same goes for C (or C's friends/family/gang members, etc). This is only three NPCs. Imagine doing that for every single NPC you meet. The only reasonable solution is if there's the same explanation for all of them. Explain how they do it once, and let some higher power take care of the rest. For example, some corrupt politician bribes all the jailed NPCs out of jail and resurrects the dead ones. That's a whole lot of text only for random NPCs to interact in the future.

    TL;DR: "Fight to the death"-tactics might seem lazy, but it's just an easy way to not deal with enemies in the future. Any exceptions can be written out, but the GM will have to do the work if their players are merciful, because the author just can't account for all the potential outcomes.


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    Regular muggers? No, I don't think so. Most people prefer to live, so if they're outmatched, they either surrender or flee. Only truly desperate people fight to the death.

    The only exception I can think of are mobsters or other people who report to some higher authority, where failure isn't an option. They might rather want to die than to bring shame upon themselves.


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    Kvit examines the room. There's nothing in this room other than a giant pile of bones, but the walls are completely scrawled over with pseudo-philosophical questions, such as "how can a blind man see the truth," and "is the executioner just a guilty as the criminal?"

    Boney must've been really bored in this room.


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    You lucky rodent, his spell DC went down by 1 because of your Befuddle. :P

    Kka jumps over the sweeping tail, but this time it knocks Lough flat on his butt.

    Kvit coats Boney's body in ice, freezing him to his core.

    Fortitude save: 1d20 + 17 + 1 ⇒ (15) + 17 + 1 = 33

    Boney resists most of it, but his teeth chitter in his skull.

    Kka slashes twice, but misses both times. She activates her shield, just in case.

    Lough raises his shield and gets up, provoking from Boney! Yep, I forgot that last time.

    Boney jaws attack: 1d20 + 21 ⇒ (20) + 21 = 41
    Damage: 2d10 + 11 ⇒ (5, 4) + 11 = 20 plus 1d6 ⇒ 3 spirit, plus 2d6 ⇒ (2, 3) = 5

    Boney cackles with glee as he chomps down on Lough, and he grinds his teeth in Lough's flesh a little bit more.
    Seems like he does more damage to prone targets.

    Then, Lough retaliates by bashing Boney with Borbo!

    Boney, 91 damage, 1d6 bleed
    Lough 36/92, Life Boost
    Cherry Berry 78/78
    Kka 57/83, DC 26 Reflex or be knocked prone
    Kvit 22/48

    Cherry Berry is up!


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    Ah, good that you say so, I shall try to be more specific in the future. In this particular case, Boney was willing to talk, because, as a guard, he's supposed to assess who can pass and who can't. If you disengage and talk to him without violence, he's willing to listen.

    I don't mean to imply that's what you should or are supposed to do right now, and what is done is done, but in case things go sour, it's definitely an option you can take.

    I will list skill options in the future that could be used to resolve things nonviolently, but I also want to promote player agency and don't hand people the solution. It's a balance I need to find. Maybe putting potential skills in spoiler tags, for people who'd like a hint?


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    Well, let's just ignore the roll then. No need to mess around with hit points after the fact. Bank error in your favour. :)


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    Yes, curiously some reviews get eaten sometimes. And even more weirdly, it usually happens to badly-reviewed scenarios (or at least, I happen to see it more on those, see also this scenario from PF1). Indeed, they're still visible on the user's page, but don't appear on the product page.

    I don't want to assume bad faith or breach of community guidelines, but it seems very coincidental. There's certainly enough bad reviews remaining that I don't think someone is "cleaning up" the reviews to make them look better than they are.

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