This book was announced in June and I just discovered it today- what rock have I been under. Anyway...
Excited is an understatement. I'm a sucker for all things fey, and I've been chomping at the bit for a book about the First World.
I do have a question if anyone can help me with it- I've read some mentioning that this book would be useful with the Kingmaker adventure path. I was planning on running Kingmaker before diving into Strange Aeons, so survivors of that AP and other past APs can have a cool new kingdom to retire in since from what I understand about Kingmaker from the description, it's the AP to create a new kingdom. So, should I wait for First World before starting King Maker? All four of the players' characters are fey(ish) themed, or could be enhanced depending on what's in the book- fey and harrow bloodlines, fey trickster mesmerist archetype from UI, and a witch with a First World patron.
Depends on what you're looking for out of it. According to what I've read earlier on this thread, it seems like there won't be too much mechanically, as that apparently is the case for most Campaign Setting books, although Feysworn still looks fantastic. If you're looking for new character options, maybe just let them retrain when the book comes out.
However, given the lesser amount of mechanical goods that seem to come with this, it seems like there will still be a huge amount of lovely fluff which you and your players can make use of, you to build/enhance the world it takes place in, and for them to use to build their kingdom.
tl;dr: If you're looking for mechanical stuff for your campaign, just start now. If you want fluff, you may want to wait.
Okay fine. But I think Pact Wizard Pact Wizard is pretty dumb.
I'm pretty sure that Pyromancer999 brought it up because it is funny - not because they thought it was a good choice.
Yep, pretty much this. Pact Wizard Pact Wizard Wizard is fun to say. Like Major Major Major in Catch-22.
Also, while not the most optimal or full of archetype synergy, it's not quite useless. It(Familiar Folio Pact Wizard) lets you meld together the fluff of Pact Wizard(HHH version) further. Plus, you do get Improved Familiar for free and also qualify for Sacred Summons. So not the worst option for a HHH Pact Wizard that would like to focus on summoning a bit.
Anyone know any more about the new pact wizard? Like what does the archetype gain/lose. Also is the name set in stone or subject to change?
Short answer? It's a giant ball of arcane awesome!
Long answer, you get a witch's patron (and those spells added to your book), the ability to sack spontcast your patron spells with any of your spells save your specialty school extra slots, you can prep your spell for the day in 15 minutes rather than an hour and prep hastily in a minute, at 5th you get an oracle's curse and get to add whatever bonus spells it gives you if it gives you some to your spell book for free, at 10 you can roll twice take the better result when rolling a Caster level, check concentration check, initial check, or saving throw 3+1/2 Int per day, at 15 to get to add your Int to those rolls and reduce the spell level of metamagic spells from your Patron spell list or oracle curse by 1 to a minimum of their original level, and the 20th if you roll a nat 20 on that you auto succeed regardless of whether or not that's possible.
All that for the low low price of scribe scroll and I believe all your bonus feats. And now I totally want to play it.
So basically you get a set of spells you can spontaneously cast, the Fast Study arcane discovery for free (which is a fair trade), an Oracle curse, an almost constant (significantly better) Borrow Fortune ability, and free Metamagic level reduction which I imagine stacks with other reductions.
And it stacks with Exploiter.
How was this a good idea?
If the Pact Wizard loses all of its bonus feats, then I don't think it will stack with Exploiter, since both archetypes modify wizard bonus feats.
Um, Exploiter modifies Arcane Bond and School, not bonus feats.
Well that's just a barrel of fun.
Also means, funnily enough, that it stacks with the first Pact Wizard archetype. So you can be a Pact Wizard Pact Wizard Wizard.
On a somewhat related note, I wish Paizo would put out a class book that bases things more on chance such as a gambler base class. Include the Harrowed Medium in that and let them select their class abilities through using the harrow deck each day.
Ultimate Risk?
It'd be an interesting archetype for the Harrow Medium to have to choose its spirits based on Harrow readings, but to make it the default is kind of a jerk move for people who like to plan stuff.
Also, while a gambler class would be cool, feels more like an archetype or maybe even a feat tree, depending on what they'd get.
Still, though, I am hyped for this class to come out. With any luck, maybe sometime this year or early next, although don't think there's any exact information on time frame it'll be released.
Also, I am really interested in the Harrow Medium. Is there any chance that it could get it's own book, like an expanded Harrow Player's Companion.
This conversation has its own thread to avoid de-railing, as can be seen and linked to in the quotes below.
Feros wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
I'd like to avoid derailing this thread about Harrowed medium if possible, so maybe start a new thread elsewhere? As a final tidbit, perhaps a worthy one for a starting post in that new thread, someone asked in an AMA for the Paizo GenCon Industry Insiders "Harrow Medium when?" And Wes Schneider (arguably one of the most influential people at the company in deciding what the answer to that question will be) responded "Any time now." Admittedly, that was news to me when he said it, as last I heard from within the company, it was still not a sure thing and was unlikely to be soon even if so. Let's continue discussion of Harrowed medium in another thread so this one can focus on Haunted Heroes...
Long story short, Mark doesn't know when the Harrow Medium will be released, but it will not be as part of its own player companion due to extreme length, as Player Companions will not exceed 32 pages.
He has considered it possible that it could be part of a future Campaign Setting release, but that is more conjecture than anything substantiated, as he has said that when and where it will be released is not entirely up to him.
Drake's alignment is any non-good with no restrictions on matching that of the PC. (Obviously a Paladin's needs to be non-evil, and will probably work best with LN.)
Ah, forgot about the has to be non-good part. This is correct.
Quote:
The types are aether, fire, water, air, and earth. It's got its own special progression, similar to an animal companion but with a different progression table, HD, etc. Pyromancer seems to be referencing another book entirely.
I mentioned that the progression is similar to an animal companion. As for the types, there is also cold.
Isn't a prestige class still a class? It doesn't specify it has to be a base class.
When we have a section of the Core Rule Book called "classes" and one called "Prestige Classes" I doubt we can affirm that they are the same thing.
Just because it can't be entered at first level doesn't make it not a class.
thewastedwalrus wrote:
You should be able to select a prestige class for an evangelist's aligned class feature, but either way; You could only advance the class to its maximum of 5th level through evangelist. After the level of evangelist that got you there, you wouldn't gain anything more from the aligned class feature.
So, as many know, the Evangelist's Aligned Class class feature allows you to add your Evangelist levels - 1 to a class of your choosing.
A Spherewalker, if they did not possess spellcasting before entry, gain a single spell slot of a level equal to their class level every level(so a 3rd level Spherewalker has a single spell slot of each 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level, plus bonus spells as appropriate).
So, would an Evangelist that chose Spherewalker be able to progress this and other class features beyond what the natural five levels would allow, and get you 9th level spells? Because if so, Non-spellcasting class 5/Spherewalker 1/Evangelist 9 would technically get you 9th level spells(if only very few in number) at 15th level.
It feels like I'm wrong on this, but wanted to check to make sure.
All archetypes that gain a drake companion progress the same(albeit the ranger's on size).
As for alignment and types: Your drake companion's alignment matches your own, and you choose one of six elemental types, as you don't actually gain an actual Bestiary Drake as a companion. It's more akin to an animal companion, sort of.
You can skip prerequisites by raising the Spellcraft DC, and the Experimenter gets to use Knowledge (engineering) instead of Spellcraft and - as I recall - gets a fairly hefty bonus to Craft (alchemy) and Knowledge (engineering).
I thought that too, but the Brew Potion feature specifies that, while the Craft Construct does not.
Does anyone know how the Experimenter is supposed to be able to craft a construct without knowing any spells? It does cover the caster level, but otherwise, doesn't really allow you to actually create a construct. At least, that's how I'm reading that. Anyone know what's up with that?
So, thought that a lot of the entry-level Manifestations for Corruptions in Horror Adventures seemed similar in power to an Oracle Curse. Hence, this archetype was born.
Emissary of Corruption(Oracle Archetype)
The taint of evil spreads further and further every day, transforming more and more innocents into pawns of its power. However, some forces behind it are impatient, and wish to hasten this process. Hence, these forces reach out and cause mortals to be born with the taint of corruption, and become a walking source of corruption in the world,drawing power from it and becoming a willing participant in its spread.
Alignment: The Emissary of Corruption must be either evil or chaotic neutral.
Tainted: Even if they do not need fear succumbing to the taint, it is still present within them.
At 1st level, the Emissary of Corruption chooses a corruption. They cannot gain another corruption by any means, and do not need to make saves to avoid progressing the corruption. They gain a manifestation available to a 0th stage corrupted person, gaining both the gift and the stain. They treat their manifestation level as being equal to 1/2 the highest level spell they can cast, rounded up.
At 5th level and every 5th level after, their effective Manifestation level increases by 1.
This replaces the Oracle's Curse.
Corruption Vector: The Emissary of Corruption was created to serve one purpose: spread corruption, forcibly. Once per day, they may, as a full round action, cast a Corrupted spell. A Corrupted spell is a spell with a casting time of one standard action or less that does not have a target of Self. A Corrupted spell has its DC increased by 1, and forces the target to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Charisma modifier), or become corrupted as a 0th stage corrupted person with your chosen corruption.
At 11th level, the DC increases by 2 and you gain another daily usage.
This replaces the revelations gained at 1st and 11th levels.
Embrace Corruption: You may embrace the taint within you. Whenever you may select a Revelation, you may instead choose to gain a manifestation for your corruption (qualifying as per your effective manifestation level), and gain only the gift of it, as per the useful corruption variant. Taking a corruption this way does not increase your effective manifestation level.
This alters Revelation.
Herald of the Dark Age: At 20th level, you have become a walking plague of corruption. You automatically gain a manifestation, gaining only its gift. For this manifestation, you may treat your effective manifestation level as being 2 higher. Additionally, you may now control someone through infection. Whenever you succeed in corrupting someone through Corruption Vector, they automatically gain Manifestation level 5, and the corresponding number of manifestations, and are dominated as Dominate Monster for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier with no save.
Oh my god please let the Legacy line stick and please, for the love of god, let the snarky genealogist be the voice of the blog post for all of them.
Seconded! All in favor say Aye!
All opposed.. Hush!!
Thirded. This is glorious! (Both blog post and the Legacy of Dragons, although more the former in this context. I want to spend an afternoon with Sandermane in discussion with lemonade about stuff like this).
Also, looking forward to all the archetypes listed, especially the dragon-taught fighter one. It just sounds too cool. Witch one also sounds great, as it will be interesting to see how the witch derives the power from gold.
Any spoilers about the lycanthropy corruption? Will you be able to shift into an animal form and a humanoid animal form?
Will you be able to choice whatever animal you want?? What is the downside? I'm very curious :-)
Yes, you will be able to shift into animal and hybrid forms as according to the preview last week. Also seems to be based on one animal, which makes much more sense than multiple.
As for the downsides, nobody knows the stains yet, so everyone has to wait for those.
Hopefully at least one template in this book will turn animals into aberrant Lovecraftian horrors.
That'd be cool.
Even if not, Mark did say that animals could be affected by corruptions, so animals with a Deep One corruption can most likely come close, at least from what I'm guessing of what they are.
Well since the shadow plane is influenced by the negative energy plane and the first world seems to be influenced by the positive energy plane then I wouldn't be surprised about that. Plus there beings in the shadow plane that may be enemies of fey, or used to live in the first world, or are just a negative influence.
Where is this said? Because if that's the case, I just got a little more credibility for my theory as to why Count Ranalc was banished.
Count wasn't banished. He voted to leave. :p ;)
It's been a while since I've had a copy of the specific book to look at, but remember it saying that he was exiled to the Plane of Shadow by the other Eldest.
Well since the shadow plane is influenced by the negative energy plane and the first world seems to be influenced by the positive energy plane then I wouldn't be surprised about that. Plus there beings in the shadow plane that may be enemies of fey, or used to live in the first world, or are just a negative influence.
Where is this said? Because if that's the case, I just got a little more credibility for my theory as to why Count Ranalc was banished.
Aroden and Ranalc voted to leave the Golarion pantheon. Motion carried.
Alternate but similar theory:
Since the Eldest and the gods couldn't deal with their forbidden love, Ranalc and Aroden eloped to the reality we live in. Now called Randy Alco and Aaron Denver, this cute couple lives an ordinary life with a nice cat named Ruggles, complicated by only the wacky hijinks that come with hiding their divine powers.
It's definitely no less than 100% plausible.
Jokes aside, it would be interesting if either left willingly, although can't imagine for what reasons, especially Ranalc. Although to be fair, we only have a brief snippet of info on him so far.
It is very similar to the Books of the Damned and Chronicle of the Righteous. There are no new Eldest, but they each get a full write-up with obediences and such.
Even the long-lost Count Ranalc?
(pleasepleasepleaseplease...)
I'd imagine he would. It does say in the original text that his clerics still get spells (if I remember correctly), so I don't think there would be any reason Count Ranalc wouldn't be able to give Deific Obediences if all the other Eldest do.
Its quite strange that Heroes of Horror has become such a well known companion book for 3.5....from what I gather one of the big criticisms ironically was that the book wasnt actually that well horror themed!!!
I don't know about that. An Archivist with Polymorph Any Object can be a real Nightmare, after all.
Get it?
On a more serious note, it seems, in my opinion, like Heroes of Horror and Horror Adventures, despite both being horror-themed, tackle different aspects of horror in the game. Heroes of Horror expands more on Horror elements that can be commonly found in traditional fantasy tropes(Undead, Depravity/Corruption, Insanity). Meanwhile, while Horror Adventures does cover those topics, it expands the game by presenting aspects of the horror genre that are not common to traditional fantasy games currently out, even if they're found in other mediums(Like Cthulhu-esque horrors, serial killers, etc.).
That said, I liked Heroes of Horror, and expect Horror Adventures to be just as good, if not better. Both are/will be good without a need to be compared to each other, I think.
So even if this product has no Medium class goodies, it still boosts that class by making it more likely that they will get to use their 3rd level Haunt Channeling ability, right?
On Mark's Facebook fanpage, he's listed things like archetypes and class material that will be in the book(albeit not all of it). One of the things mentioned is new spirits for the Medium, including a Butcher spirit.
That said, the archetypes for this book look AMAZING(especially looking forward to the Occultist archetypes and Grave Digger, as I've been waiting for an Investigator archetype that gets implements), and can't wait to see the corruptions for myself, as they're a pretty cool concept. Those alone make this book a definite buy for me. Unfortunately, time travel has not been invented yet, so it'll be a while yet.
I just started a campaign where I'm doing the same thing, mostly because I really dislike the standard magic items in PF. I will be using mythic as well, but that part hasn't happened yet.
Obviously mythic will increase your PCs potential. The first tier or two, barring some of the path abilities as they aren't balanced against each other, is more easily managed and won't disrupt the game too much.
Depending on the encounters, you could also lower the difficulty there.
412294 wrote:
I'd suggest only giving one or two tiers of mythic, it can get pretty strong, probably require players to OK their choices with you as well and not allow anything that basically says 'Win against non mythic enemies'
I'm aware of the power boost, just mainly wondering if it's enough to counter the effects of low numbers of magic items/low WBL. So while I'm not going to go full 10, may go a couple tiers beyond that, if it reaches level 20. Players already have to okay choices like that with me(as I do also work with them on which magic items they want to see if they're okay and to work their acquisition into the story. The Win against non-mythic enemies stuff ban is definitely a good suggestion, though.
Jason Nelson wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
Make good use of your friend's copy of the Mythic Hero's Handbook. In particular, read the back part, where it covers some common problems in mythic games and offers a variety of solutions. XD
If you're looking for a good primer on balancing the mythic rules, you also can buy that chapter as a standalone PDF for just $2.99 right here: Mythic Solutions
Looking at it now, it's definitely a good section for curbing the power if it gets too much. Actually turns out I have a PDF copy, so no longer need my friend's copy of it. Do wish I remember when I got that, though. Literally no memory. But yeah, this part will be useful.
So, I dislike running games where everyone has to be decked out with magic items. I have had some success in this in running games with Automatic Bonus Progression, with these modifications:
- One may switch the order in which mental/physical bonuses are received, which allows for martials to receive their physical bonuses then their mental bonuses, as opposed to the normal order
-Casters may swap out the weapon enhancement bonus for the effects of metamagic rods, available in any combination, although the total metamagic adjustment of the metamagic feats cannot be greater than the total weapon enhancement bonus a normal character would have at that level and no individual rod may grant the effects of a metamagic feat that is greater than 1/2 the total max level adjustment(minimum 1).
-Weapon/armor enhancement bonuses apply to any weapon/armor used(except shields), do not need attuning, and are not diminished by a weapon's special enchantments(ex. Keen, Vorpal, etc.).
So, players normally end up with 1-4 items(depending on level and how far in the campaign we are) which, not including weapon/armor special ability enhancements, Cure wands, the occasional potion, and the rare scroll, are around 5-10% WBL, usually towards the lower end of that range. With the wands and the rest added in, can be around 15-20% WBL overall.
This has definitely cut down on the clutter. However, once gameplay starts to gets past the first half of the game(11th and onwards), I have noticed that, while still able to deal with threats, encounters for the parties I've run with few to no magic items seem to have a lot more difficulty than those with the normal amount. People have told me this is due to magic items providing ~1/2 of the power/versatility for characters of that level. While I don't object to a few magic items, heroes having too many items clashes with a lot of fantasy literature I've read, as well as my own personal sense of the genre.
So, I have noticed Mythic Adventures seems to provide more inherent abilities, as well as a decent power boost. While going full Mythic Tier 10 in my games would most likely be a bit much, adding at least a few Mythic Tiers seems like it'd be a good power/ability boost. It also helps a friend of mine has a copy of a third party supplement(Mythic Heroes Handbook) that seems to have good balance and would greatly expand options for this sort of play. Hence, I was thinking of using Mythic Tiers as a replacement for magic items. Would this work?
tl;dr: Want to run a campaign with few magic items, but am worried about PCs not keeping up with level-appropriate encounters. I've tried Automatic Bonus Progression, but need something more. Would adding in Mythic Tiers do the trick?
Just finished up reading my PDF copy of this. This book is pretty amazing. It gives a lot of support for mystery-type games, and also has a bunch of other interesting things.
** spoiler omitted **
Most of the material in this book was pretty great, but the stuff in the spoiler was what stuck out to me the most. This was a really well-made book, and I had somewhat high expectations when I started to read it. It was a privilege to read and I can't wait to use it in my next game.
Thanks so much Pyromancer! We all worked hard, and I think we made something really cool; at least, I'm excited about all the new stuff for my intrigue games. Now that it's out, if you have a chance and you'd like to recommend it more visibly, consider writing a review (even just what you mentioned in that post is enough for a review). I think I've mentioned which freelancers worked on most of the archetypes you liked already earlier in the thread, but the ideas for the druid archetypes you liked were from freelancer Mikko Kallio, and I wrote the secret broker and fey trickster myself.
Just finished up reading my PDF copy of this. This book is pretty amazing. It gives a lot of support for mystery-type games, and also has a bunch of other interesting things.
Other Interesting Things:
-Fey Trickster and Enimga archetypes for the Mesmerist have transformed it from a class that I dislike to one that I would love to play, at least for these archetypes. I really like fey stuff and the Enigma is really good at what it does.
-Cipher is as glorious as I was given to believe. Really, really good for stealth builds.
-Urushiol + Skinshaper = Best Druid combo forever
-Secret Broker definitely takes the cake for most ingenious mechanics for an archetype in this book, with how it deals with the exchange of secrets.
-As a student who spends a lot of time hiding in the library, the library portion was nothing short glorious.
Most of the material in this book was pretty great, but the stuff in the spoiler was what stuck out to me the most. This was a really well-made book, and I had somewhat high expectations when I started to read it. It was a privilege to read and I can't wait to use it in my next game.
The Cipher basically becomes more of an unperson, can use inspiration without spending uses on stealth and perceptions, harder to detect with magic, others have to make perception checks to even acknowledge they exist, evasion and improved evasion, and hide in plain sight.
Occultist has the Ancestral Aspirant, which deal with your noble family and enchantments, and Secret Broker, which can trade and steal memories and secrets.
These sound way too fantastic. I need to play a Cipher Investigator. Here's to hoping it's compatible with Empiricist.
Would anyone care to shed some light on what the Cipher archetype for the Investigator is and/or give a bit more detail on what the archetypes for the Occultist get?
I know this was brought up earlier(albeit without a real answer), but what kind of stuff does the Umbral Scion archetype get?
It is a sorcerer archetype:
Bloodline: must have the shadow bloodline.
Diminished Spellcasting
Shrouded Spells (Su)
Encroaching Darkness(Su): replaces the shadowstrike bloodline power.
Potent Shadows (Su): replaces the 7th-level bloodline feat.
Crippling Darkness (Su): replaces the 13th-level bloodline feat.
This archetype basically grants darkness related powers beyond what the shadow bloodline alone would grant.
Thanks for the info. Looks interesting. Not necessarily optimal, but could be worth it for an arcane spellcaster looking to go heavy into a shadow theme.
Anyone else notice the Relic Hunter Inquisitor Archetype effectively renders the Inquisitor capstone useless without not getting rid of it or giving anything to replace it? I'm kind of hoping I made a mistake, but that seems to be the case.
Basic argument here is that while judgement, second judgement, and third judgement get replaced, the capstone, True Judgement, does not. This renders it useless, as you cannot use judgement, which that capstone requires. The Relic Hunter does get a focus power at that level, though, so part of me wonders if that was intentional and the Deific Focus class feature was just supposed to replace the True Judgement class feature and replace it with a focus power and the exclusion of True Judgement in that archetype class feature was a typo.
So what does Lore do? All I have heard mentioned is that it's a very specific version of Knowledge, but that doesn't really seem that different than normal knowledge. So, why would someone invest in that skill?
Last set of reveals for the night, I really need to crash (so I can read in bed! Yay!).
The Sorcerer gets two new archetypes:
The amazingly named Eldritch Scrapper focuses on mixing the Brawler's talent for mayhem with natural attacks.
The Mongrel Mage (not making this up, I swear) is a sorcerer that has a weaker mix of different bloodlines instead of a single powerful bloodline.
The Wizard gets three new archetypes:
The Exploiter Wizard gets in on the arcanist racket, gaining an arcane reservoir and arcanist exploits. I expect this to be a popular Wizard archetype.
The Spell Sage eschews the traditional focus on schools and instead studies specific spells and the spellcasting techniques of other classes, which allows him to tap into their spell lists (at a hefty action economy cost) a few times a day.
The Spirit Whisperer Wizard mixes witch and shaman elements - he gains a spellbook familiar like a witch, and a spirit link.
So the Wizard can play with the Arcanist's stuff but not the Sorcerer? So lame. There goes the chance to play the type of Sorc I've wanted to play since I first read about the class in 3.0. <sigh>
Being able to use your innate connection to magic to bend the rules of magic? Nope. Exploits would be considered knowledge and the Sorc is the dumb brute of magic. But hey here's an archetype to punch people because that will go great with your 1/2 BAB you dumb brute Sorc.
/rant
Sorry. Thank you for the information Kudaku its great of you.
Perhaps you need to take another look. Instead of copying what the wizard does, the Sorcerer gets the Mongrel Mage which lets the sorcerer tamper with the very bloodline of her magic.
No, they got it right the first time. Wizards get access to Arcanist material such as Exploits, while Sorcerers do not. Mixing bloodlines has nothing to do with that. Even if you consider it tampering with magic because the player gets to mix bloodlines, it's not the sorcerer character tampering with magic, it just has a mix of magical heritages, not actively messing around with the fabric of magic.
So, after reading all the comments on here, as well as all of the previews, I am torn. There is definitely some interesting, awesome stuff in here. However, what would be interesting to me seems outweighed by stuff that I feel neutral about(such as the investigator, which I wouldn't really be interested in if it weren't for the Mastermind archetype) or not interested in at all(equipment, as I build most of my characters to function well with or without equipment.
However, there is one thing that I really need to know to decide properly:
Are there any bloodlines for sorcerers? If so, could someone just list them along with a brief description?
Sorcerers are always my favorite class, so that's a pretty major factor in deciding on this. I know about the two archetypes for it, but no idea about any bloodlines.
