Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Horror Adventures

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Horror Adventures
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There are things that dwell in the dark places of the world, in long-abandoned crypts or musty attics—terrible things that can destroy your body and shatter your mind. Few individuals would think to seek out such nightmares, but those drawn into the darkness often find it infecting them, corrupting them in ways both subtle and disgusting. Some believe those who die facing such horrors are the lucky ones, for the survivors are forever scarred by their experiences.

Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures gives you everything you need to bring these nightmares to life. Within these pages, you'll find secrets to take your game into the darkest reaches of fantasy, where the dead hunger for the living, alien gods brood in dreams, and madness and death lurk around every corner. Rules for players and GMs alike pit brave champions against a darkness capable of devouring mind, body, and soul. To prepare to face such torments, the heroes can take new feats, learn powerful spells, and even acquire holy relics—for they'll need every edge possible to survive!

Pathfinder RPG Horror Adventures includes:

  • Corruptions that can turn your character into a powerful monster, from a blood-drinking vampire to a savage werewolf. The only cost is your soul!
  • Character options to help heroes oppose the forces of darkness, including horror-themed archetypes, feats, spells, and more!
  • A detailed system to represent sanity and madness, giving you all the tools you need to drive characters to the brink and beyond.
  • Tips and tools for running a genuinely scary game, along with an in-depth look at using horror's many subgenres in a Pathfinder campaign.
  • Expanded rules for curses, diseases, environments, fleshwarping, haunts, and deadly traps.
  • New templates to turn monsters into truly terrifying foes, from creatures made of living wax to a stalker that can never be stopped!
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-849-6

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Spooky Fun, Can't Wait to Curse My Players

5/5

I am in love with this book. The themes for archetypes are spot on and everything goes beyond horror basics, it's much more than vampires, werewolves, and zombies (though they are included). Some of my favorite elements are the Deep One corruption (corruptions in general are sweet, this seems like a well balanced mechanic for horribly warping the PCs into monsters, while still giving them a way to fight it) and the Gingerbread Witch. The Deep One corruption is a great example of the depth of horror this book includes, this plays on a less often used horror theme of the paranoia of harming oneself (in this case, by drowning). This reminds me so much of elements from the book The Boy Who Drew Monsters, and the mom's terrible fascination with people who drowned in a shipwreck a hundred years ago. You could adopt this same corruption for vertigo or even a bodily harm thing. On a lighter side, the Gingerbread Witch made me so, so happy. It's a well thought out archetype, I'm not sure they'd be great as a player character (but there aren't evil restrictions, so have at!) but I can't wait to insert a horrible Gingerbread Witch near some unassuming town, with her creepy haunted gingerbread house and evil delicious familiar.

I just can't say enough good things about the mechanics. They are flexible enough that you don't have to have a horror specific campaign to use elements from this book. The fear and sanity rules can be used with any campaign to add realism or more of a gritty fantasy feel. If your level 1 characters just killed a person for the first time, maybe they should lose some sanity and wrestle with that emotion. If they are in a dank, creepy dungeon with skeletons, maybe some of them would be spooked. The rules for adapting fear resistant characters like Paladins are also nicely balanced and I appreciate that attention to detail - your paladins don't have to yawn at the sideline, they're vulnerable too, just in a way less debilitating way that actually paints them as more of a hero around evil and undead.

Lastly, the warning about needing consent before using this book in a campaign was a very nice touch. That totally hooked me when starting to read this book. I kind of thought I'd just have spooky themed elements, but that paragraph inspired me to try to take this to the next level. How fun would it be to have a session that turns your actual living room into a haunted house, or to be the director of the scariest experience your friends have had all year?

If Halloween is your favorite holiday or you love low, gritty fantasy, I highly recommend this book. I will be reading this one cover to cover and am excited to use its elements for many, many sessions.


An Endzeitgeist.com review

5/5

This massive hardcover clocks in at 255 pages - if you take away editorial, index, etc., you still arrive at 249 pages of content, which is A LOT.

I was gifted a copy of this book for the purpose of a fair and unbiased review. My review is based on the hardcover of this book.

Now, the first thing I'd ask you to do, is to read the series of Miscellaneous Musings I wrote on horror gaming in general. Or least the last one. Why? Because it is my firm conviction that one has to establish realistic expectations in order to review a book such as this.

(The articles are fully linked on my page.)

Alternatively, if you already own it, there is a sentence in the advice chapter on running horror games that should be taken to heart: "Pathfinder is not designed with horror in mind." I'd like to elaborate on this, at least briefly. As I have established in my long, long rants on the subject matter, it is my firm conviction that you can run horror in PFRPG, even purist horror, but that the base system per se is more conductive towards playing the angle of pitting horror against the angle of heroism, of allowing PCs to have a shot against the darkness. While you can modify PFRPG to play akin to CoC, the game is simply more conductive towards the heroic angle.

It is a testament to PFRPG's versatility that horror of any way works in the first place, in spite of the focus of the game. Now secondly, I'd like to address two aspects of the game and what we can expect, with the first being character options. We are all aware of the vast array of built-options available for PFRPG and thus, it should come as no surprise that yes, we do receive a significant array of player- (or at least character-)centric options. Which would bring me to the first observation: It is my firm convictions that players should stay out of this book.

No, really. You see, quite a lot of the new class options, like the blood alchemist, elder mythos cultist, hexenhammer or medium spirit-variants like the butcher or lich (for champion and archmage, to give two examples) scream "NPC" for me. I know, it is perhaps not what you'd expect me to do, but ultimately, I consider the material here to be mostly intended for the GM. Yes, we have martyr paladins with stigmata and bloody jake slayers and serial killer vigilantes. Yes, some players will want to play these...but from my experience as a horror-GM, it may actually make sense restricting these...or simply not telling the players about the rules. Before you're asking, btw.: From a min-maxing perspective, you'll probably find better options anyways...but if that's a consideration for you when playing in a horror game, I'd strongly suggest thinking about priorities and of what makes for a fun game for everyone - see my long, long posts on the necessary contract/gentlemen's agreement between the GM and player.

That being said, there is one aspect I am holding against this book, in spite of the aforementioned previous considerations, and that would be that there is no dividing line between content obviously designed for players/good guys and that for villains - it does show in the archetype-section and, more than that, in the feat-section, where we can find REALLY cool Story-feats alongside a bunch of feats intended for evil characters or monsters - in the latter case often enhancing universal monster abilities and providing further numerical escalation - which would be less of an issue, if PFRPG didn't have this many options to gain access to precisely these abilities. In short, we are catering to a mindset here that kinda undermines the horror premise the rest of the book is trying hard to set up. In short: We also get a lot of alternate racial traits for the core races, which generally fit with the themes of horror, though the fortification they offer against these challenges don't really fit my personal vision of what I like to play in the context of such a campaign, but your mileage here may obviously vary. These are my least favorite aspects of the book.

But let's move back to the very beginning: The advice given for players when making characters for horror adventures is extremely sound and should most certainly be read carefully - the book spells pretty much out what I did, minus the advice on Achilles heels, but I guess you can't have everything. The notes on making a compelling personality etc. makes sense, and so does the advice of roleplaying fear. I am a big fan of the note that the book emphasizes conspiration and communication with the GM here.

One of my favorite parts herein would be the more diversified take on Fear: We are introduced to a 7-step progression tree of various states of fear, including rules on immunity to fear and how it should be used in conjunction with this system. It works pretty seamlessly, though I honestly wished the already widely in use cowering condition had been implemented here as well - considering the effects of the highest fear-level "horrified", the differences are not that pronounced. And yes, I am aware that this adds a bit of potential complexity to some options, but here at least, I consider the trade off worth it.

Sanity...is a bit more clunky. We get a relatively simple system: Add mental attributes together and you have the sanity score; half of that is the sanity edge. This determines the severity of the madness incurred when something exceeds your sanity threshold - which is equal to the bonus of the highest mental attribute bonus. When you incur a sanity attack and its damage exceeds the threshold, you gain a madness - simple, yes...but it does ultimately reward characters that are SAD on a mental attribute, whereas in my opinion, sanity-shattering effects often are made worse by understanding them properly, perceiving them properly, etc. The system is not bad per se, but it requires managing three scores and for that, it doesn't deliver the results I'm personally looking for in such a system. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but yeah.

The star-subsystem here would be basically PFRPG's take on dark powers-checks, so-called corruptions. These tie in with character flaws of the PC and represent a dark and malevolent stain on the character that slowly mutates them, granting benefits, while at the same time driving them further down the dark path. Where previously, in Ravenloft, you ultimately became a darklord, corruptions now have 3 stages, with the final stage usually turning you NPC. Progression along this path is via a variety of actions and they generally have a catalyst to first spring them on a character. These corruptions also feature tempting powers, so-called manifestations, which also come with a stain, a drawback, that is in relation to the behavior in question.

Now, first things first: At one point, I wrote a pretty long essay on how to tempt both players and PCs at the same time with horrific power and the psychological reasons to do so - while it has been cut and never been published, let me summarize: I argued that a weakness of the monster-transformation aspect championed by Ravenloft was, that on the one hand, the PC should be horrified by what he does, while craving the power in question. Similarly, the player should feel the same.

If there is a disjoint between player and PC, roleplaying suffers. The corruptions, when looking at them, are surprisingly tame - not in their visuals, mind you: The hive, for example, is really icky. Still, it is somewhat surprising to see the heavy penalty of corruption stage 3...and at the same time, the significant array of manifestations each corruption offers. Now, some folks have complained about the risk of being turned NPC being too high (it's a sort of game over, after all), but from a meta-design perspective it can be a motivator for munchkins to take heed.

There is another aspect to the system pretty much every review I read did not pick up on - and I don't get why. In my third essay on horror gaming, I talked about the realities of being a big publisher and not one of the underground one-man operations. I also talked briefly about the witch hunts our hobby is subject to, one that continues in some regions and circles. More than that, moral and aesthetic limitations vary within persons - more so between folks. As the big dog that Paizo is, it is pretty hard to sell "play a monstrously vile thing and the descent into evil" to a part of their demographic - though, in particularly the hardcore horror fans will want exactly that, the teetering on the edge of damnation experience, for from this precipice, the best redemption stories are woven.

Here's the beautiful thing about the corruption system: The increase of manifestations is not tied to the corruption stage progression. At all. You can retain the whole save mechanics, variants and the whole rest and just throw out the three stages. You can introduce as many stages as you'd like (perhaps 7 or 5, as previous editions of the game did - perhaps 13, if you want to go an occult angle...) - the system's validity remains. And yes, I'll confess, my kneejerk response was like that of many out there, to complain and curse about the 3 stages - but know what? This is by far the best and most detailed (and balanced) such system I have seen for a d20-based game. It covers the company and at the same time, easily allows for PCs and NPCs, for GMs and players alike, to enjoy a system I never expected to see in this shape or form from a big publisher. Now personally, I would have actually increased the potency of the corruptions if you're running with the stage-limit and NPC-threat...but, once again, that is if you're planning on playing a relatively tame campaign. The fact that each manifestation has its custom gifts and stains, completely divorced from the stages, means that you retain maximum control when tweaking the system to your needs. The fact that the save to resist progression is tied to compulsive behavior means that even it, as an aspect, remains valid, its tie to further manifestations in the save-calculation providing a roleplaying catalyst even without the presence of the threat of NPCdom.

The chapter on magic provides a wide array of thematically fitting spells that range from the subtle to the in-your-face blunt - sleepwalking suggestions, massive, gory blood effects and cursed terrain generally make sense and even otherwise pretty standard damage spells included herein sport nice visuals: Screaming flames? Yes, I can see that working. I am honestly more in love with the fact that we get a 5 pretty neat occult rituals here that all are amazing in their own way, with each having the potential to act as a proper plot-cornerstone. I wished we got more of them!

Now, I mentioned that I consider this to be a GM-book and indeed, the GM-section is a bit of a treasure trove in some aspects: We get a couple of new curses and advice on making more, as well as notes on cursed lands and items - if the topic interests you: Both Legendary games and Rite Publishing have released whole supplements dealing with curses, often in really creative ways, but that as an aside. Curse templates allow for the customization of curses herein. Now, the disease chapter gets my full-blown applause for disease templates - and e.g. the one named "incurable." It actually does what it says on the tin! (minus the usual wish/miracle-caveat) - this is amazing. I mean it. Diseases have, in pretty much every d20-based system, been afterthoughts, crippled, lame and ultimately were the lame brothers of poison. This changes that. The sample diseases like "brain moss" or "gore worms" also make me tingle and twitch in a good way.

Speaking of things I like: We get a vast number of cool terrain hazards, haunted spots and the like to add to encounters, allowing for quick and easy eerie customizations. Domains of Evil can also be found. You know. Domains. With dread fog. That modify how magic works. With hazards and potentially different flow of time. That are haunted. Yeah, let's stop teh pretense here: If you're like me and a sucker for Ravenloft, then this chapter will have you smile from ear to ear, even before the rules on nightmares and the couple of traps. These, btw., unfortunately are the roll to see and disable kind - particularly in a horror game, team effort, complex traps that require multiple tasks make for the more compelling option, but I digress.

Now, the next section of rules is something that I was looking forward to, since it had been featured, but never codified properly in rules at least not by Paizo (there are a couple of 3pp-forays into that territory)- fleshwarping! And yes, it is cool. It sports a ton of nice effects, but the system is, to a degree, a double-edged sword: On one hand, fleshwarping works really well and on the other, its price is perhaps a bit too high: Let me elaborate: Fleshcrafts can either be permanent grafts or temporary mutations, instilled by an elixir that requires succeeding a Fort-save to gain the benefits. The temporary prices and benefits and being keyed to slots etc. makes sense for the elixirs, but since the effects also sport a penalty, the price for the respective fleshcraft grafts is still pretty high when compared to magic items - baseline for the grafts seems to have been 1/2 of a comparable item's base price to make up for the drawback. Considering the disfiguring nature of these options, that may still be pretty high, though. It depends a bit. Chaotic fleshwarping mutations can also be found - and unlike the chaositech mutations of yore, these generally are detrimental.

The extensive section on haunts that follows includes templates for them (called haunt elements) as well as variants like dimensional instabilities, maddening influence, magical scars and psychic haunts. The array presented ranges from humble Cr 1/4 to CR 20, including classics like being buried alive or the twisted wish. Madnesses are codified in lesser and greater madnesses - big plus here: For once, a supplement does not confuse schizophrenia with dissociated identities. (Seriously, if I had a buck whenever I saw that being confused...)

Now, one of the most useful sections regarding GM-considerations would be the massive chapter that deals with running horror games - which not only classifies and quantifies horror sub.genres, their tropes, etc., but also mentions all the classics like lighting, music, creating an undisturbed environment, etc. - tricks for dealing with various snags, how to encourage horror roleplaying etc. - and it is sad, but obviously necessary that, beyond talking about what does and does not fly with individual players, overdoing it does not work. HOWEVER, I do actually disagree with one aspect - involving outside people. To have an unrelated accomplice like a spouse play with the light on e.g. a stormy evening - not all the time, but once or twice, can be rather effective...but I generally get why these disclaimers are here. This section, obviously, is targeted at less experienced GMs in the genre - and in particular such GMs will also appreciate the section on improvising rules for e.g. being buried alive, crumbling structures, etc.

Part II of my review can be found here!


Subpar book, mostly for GMs

2/5

This book has a lot of systems, mechanics, archetypes, feats, spells, environment challenges, haunts, curses, etc. While most of it is clearly presented and has enough flavor text to give you some ideas on how to use it, everything just seems to fall flat.

My two biggest gripes (I have more than just two):
1) The sanity system is horribly balanced, heavily penalizing martial characters, and it's effects are easily cured by powerful spells. Really poorly executed, why make the gap between martials and casters even worse?
2) Most of the Archetypes are realistically for GM use only, as they are very niche. I wanted to give my players a lot of cool horror themed archetypes to play with, instead they got a scant few.

This book really could have been SO much better. Disappointed.


Paizo Knows Horror and Here's Their New Toolkit!

5/5

Paizo reviews come in two forms: players that whine because they wanted something other than what was in the book (^^^)and then gamemasters/players that actually review the material provided. This is a review from the latter.

Paizo has created some of the best horror themed adventures for Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons over the course of their existence. In this book, they round it all up and spell out all of the tricks and tips they use to make it happen.

I have written everything from adventures to comic books to film scripts and I would easily hand this book over to a non-gaming writer that needed advice on how to create horror. This book goes to great lengths to provide players with archetypes for classes to use in horror themed adventures as well as giving gamemasters tools they need to create horror in session after session.

Players get archetypes, feats, spells and new gear with which to battle the horrific forces of the multiverse. GMs get a ton of new tools including a nifty new Bestiary that brings us Pathfinder versions of Alien-style xenomorphs called the Hive AND a nice analogue for the Slender Man called the Unknown. Horror requires more than monsters, so you also get new rules on corruptions, curses, diseases, horrific environments, fleshwarping, haunts, madness and more!

Creating horror is more than giving players more 0's they can add to their attacks. It involves setting, tone, atmosphere and management of expectations. If you want to run a game that makes your players fear for their characters lives, then pick up this book and give it a read. Follow up with the recommended reading and required viewing and you'll get a feeling for how to instill dread in everyone sitting at your table.


More Like Evil Adventures

3/5

This book feels more like Pathfinder's version of the Book of Vile Darkness then horror themed adventures. Also this is a very DM heavy book though I thought it would be 70% player 30% DM but is actually the other way around.

The Good
-I loved the Dread Lord, Hive, Trompe L'Oeil, Unknown, and Waxwork Creature.
-I like the Corruptions.
-I like the reprint/expanding of madness rules.
-I like some of the magic items like mantle of life, monster almanac, and elder sign.
-I liked a few archetypes like the two for witches.

The Bad
-Too many evil archetypes, spells, etc.
-Do not like the sanity rules.
-Do not like the fleshwarping rules for characters.
-Most of archetypes were lacking or unusable for players.
-Very few interesting spells that are player friendly.
-Very few interesting feats.
-Not enough character options related to specific class features like wild talents, bloodlines, rogue talents, oracle curses/mysteries, etc.

I feel this book was a missed opportunity for same great horror based player character options. Such as expanded options for void kineticist like fear effects, controlling/creating undead, etc. new psychic disciplines, sorcerer/bloodrager bloodlines, oracle curses/mysteries, hexes, phantom emotion focuses, etc. I could even see some interesting ideas for rogue talents, rage powers, slayer talents, etc. I would have been fine with reprints like the pestilence sorcerer bloodline, kineticist void element, and other fitting options from past books.


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What are the paladin archetypes and what do they do?

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
The All-Seeing Orb wrote:
The All-Seeing Orb now holds the PDF. Ask your questions, and be met with terrible truths from this Tome of Horrors.

Look All-Seeing Orb, I'm here to ask the questions that really matter, and the only one I can think of is this:

How YOU doing?

Spoiler:
Also any new vigilante or social talents?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Verzen wrote:
*spoilers omitted*

Thank you! Living Grimoire sounds so cooool. It is now a required dip in all* of my future characters.

*any that I can even remotely justify this for. BECAUSE BOOK WEAPON.


The All-Seeing Orb wrote:
The All-Seeing Orb now holds the PDF. Ask your questions, and be met with terrible truths from this Tome of Horrors.

Oh, dear Everknowing Sphere,

Any deets on Style Feats Here?


Secret Wizard wrote:


Any deets on Style Feats Here?

Whoa, if those exist in this book, I also want to know! Horror themed style feats sounds nuts.

Any details on combat feats is appreciated.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
N. Jolly wrote:
The All-Seeing Orb wrote:
The All-Seeing Orb now holds the PDF. Ask your questions, and be met with terrible truths from this Tome of Horrors.

Look All-Seeing Orb, I'm here to ask the questions that really matter, and the only one I can think of is this:

How YOU doing?

** spoiler omitted **

The All-Seeing Orb is doing excellently, now that the PDF is in its sights.

Vigilante Stuff:
No new Vigilante or Social talents that I can see, however, the All-Seeing Orb's wishes were granted in the form of the "Experimenter" Vigilante archetype. The Experimenter gains the ability to craft a mutagen, along with potion brewing and construct crafting abilities, and can take certain alchemist discoveries in place of talents.

Entryhazard wrote:
What are the paladin archetypes and what do they do?

Paladin Archetypes:

The Martyr gives up smite evil in exchange for bardic performance abilities, and has more powerful auras to assist his allies. Activating most of these abilities requires bleeding from stigmata.

The Soul Sentinel excels at fighting evils such as corruptions and curses. They eventually gain immunity to curses and hexes, and can help corrupted allies ignore the penalties of their corruptions for a short time.

The Tortured Crusader refuses to recruit others in the fight against evil, not wanting them to witness the same horrors she faced. She uses Wisdom instead of Charisma for most Paladin abilities. She can't help others with lay on hands, but she can sacrifice uses of the ability to gain additional uses of Smite Evil. Eventually she gains an even more powerful smite evil ability that grants double the normal damage bonuses, though costing twice the uses of the abilitiy.


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I've only skimmed this briefly, but so far loving it.

I always check out the monsters first, and was pleased that most of the stuff I wanted for a "slasher" monster template are in the implacable stalker template. Even a short range Teleport!

I will be curious how the book is received. More so than Occult Adventures, this is very much a GM friendly book. Quite a bit of the "player" content is designed for use with evil NPCs and may not see use in a normal campaign. I'm fine with it but I can see it rubbing some folks the wrong way

Someone just asked about monsters: It's a short section but includes:

Dread/Cursed Lord (template): Remember Ravenloft and the lords of the various domains? Yeah that is a good description of what the Dread Lord is.

Hive Larvae Swarm, Hive Queen, and Hive Warrior. Was the Akata too subtle an expy of the xenomorph for you? Well here ya go: a Xenomorph proxy that is probably as close as they can get to including a Xenomorph without lawsuits

Implacable Stalker (template): It's a slasher template that does a superb job of letting you create Jason, Michael, and the billion other slasher movie icons

Kyton Apostle (template): for people who converted to team Kyton after enough torture

Tromp L'oieL (Template) Viggo the Carpathian; e.g. a painting figure that comes to life

Unknown (Template): Fey template for the Slender Man pretty much; fey that reproduce by feeding and eroding the mental energies of their victims, turning the person into a new Unknown.

Waxwork (Template): construct made of wax

Besides these major templates, there are also simple templates for all the corruptions, allowing you to quickly produce vampiric and similar variations for a host of monsters, and 3 variant templates: The familial Lich that has been mentioned a few times, and the Bestial and Moonbound Werewolves, which allow you to produce werewolves that better emulate other media depictions.


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Ask, and ye shall see!

Style Feats:

Brute Style focuses on getting as many attacks as possible against prone opponents. One of the feats lets you use Vicious Stomp against any creature within reach, rather than just an adjacent one.

Deadhand Style gives you bonuses against fear, and gives you the ability to make the targets of your unarmed strikes shaken. Eventually you can "feast" on fear, gaining temporary hit points when targeted by fear effects. You can also learn to inflict negative levels on your unfortunate foes!

Kyton Style focuses on (what else?) the spiked chain! It allows the weapon to be used by monks, and eventually acts as both a shield and a weapon. Masters can use a special move that hurts both themselves and their target more than usual, hindering the target's concentration.

Maddening Style gives you the ability to inflict sanity damage (a new rules system in Horror Adventures) with your stunning fist attacks. Additional feats let you do even more sanity damage, as well as disintegrate enemies you defeat.


Hey, how many Vigilante Archetypes are there? Also, is there anything else for Alchemist besides the Archetypes?

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There are 3. Hangman, Experimenter, and Serial killer.

Nothing besides archetypes for alchemists (except spells). Alchemists do get a lvl 2 spell (I think it is lvl 2) where you can graft body parts temporarily and gain benefits.


KaveDweller1349 wrote:
Hey, how many Vigilante Archetypes are there? Also, is there anything else for Alchemist besides the Archetypes?

Spoiler:
There are 3 archetypes for the Vigilante, The Experimenter (which was detailed above), The Hangman (who uses a noose as a weapon, specializing in grappling and suffocating his enemies), and the Serial Killer (which gains a number of abilities, like Slayer studied target and a death attack).

I don't see anything that's specifically for alchemists beyond the archetypes, but the Fleshwarping rules are a particularly flavorful system, and might be worth looking into for any mad alchemist.


So the Hangman is like the Strangler, but maybe actually good? Awesome!

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There is the mad scientist alchemist that takes wisdom damage to create genius extracts. They look pretty fun, actually.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reading this... While watching Stranger Things.

Gives me some ideas. Yes it does.
Might get some use of that Stalker in the bestiary.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I have noticed two archetypes that swap major ability score dependencies -- a charisma based monk and a wisdom based paladin. Are there any other archetypes like that?


David knott 242 wrote:
I have noticed two archetypes that swap major ability score dependencies -- a charisma based monk and a wisdom based paladin. Are there any other archetypes like that?

Both Kineticist archetypes were mentioned. Int and Wis instead of Con.

Designer

David knott 242 wrote:
I have noticed two archetypes that swap major ability score dependencies -- a charisma based monk and a wisdom based paladin. Are there any other archetypes like that?

I think you were in the Legacy of Dragons thread for part of your sojourn on the boards today (and nothing wrong with that; dragons are awesome!). As such, I'll caution other readers that only one of those two archetypes is in this book.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There is also the Intelligence Inquisitor, right? The same one as the book one. The Cleric that uses Charisma (Elder Mythos).

The Wisdom Paladin is in this book, as a heads up.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thanks for that catch Mark!

So this book has the wisdom based paladin and the intelligence and wisdom based kineticists. I am definitely looking forward to being able to read these in detail.


Yes, the Living Grimoire uses Int in place of Wis. They're also prepared casters, who learn spells in a similar way to Wizards or Magi, scribing them in their grimoire. Very cool!


Gisher wrote:
Ashram wrote:
Geez people, why not just ask someone to write up a gigantic spoiler for the whole book.
The spoilers don't seem any more extensive than usual to me.

I was going to say Gish. It's not like something that Vic deleted a while ago...

Designer

The All-Seeing Orb wrote:
Yes, the Living Grimoire uses Int in place of Wis. They're also prepared casters, who learn spells in a similar way to Wizards or Magi, scribing them in their grimoire. Very cool!

I was really impressed with Brandon Hodge's archetypes in this book right from the get-go (his are the inquisitor and occultist archetypes); they had solid themes as well as interesting mechanics to express those themes, even in the very first draft.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Interesting -- a prepared Inquisitor. This is the first time we have had a prepared spellcaster archetype of a spontaneous caster class, isn't it?


Hey Orb, can you give me the low-down on Fleshwarping?


Mister Seifter,

Is there anything here mentioned you wanted to say more on? Like parts you really loved working on?


David knott 242 wrote:

Interesting -- a prepared Inquisitor. This is the first time we have had a prepared spellcaster archetype of a spontaneous caster class, isn't it?

I believe it is. I can think of plenty of spontaneous archetypes for prepared casters, but this might be the first that does it the other way around. I could be mistaken though.


Brew Bird wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Interesting -- a prepared Inquisitor. This is the first time we have had a prepared spellcaster archetype of a spontaneous caster class, isn't it?

I believe it is. I can think of plenty of spontaneous archetypes for prepared casters, but this might be the first that does it the other way around. I could be mistaken though.

I can't think of one either.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I do have to say I am a LITTLE disappointed with the occultist talisman crafter. I was hoping they could craft talismans that are the exact replicas of their occultist implements and pass them out to their party.

Designer

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Mister Seifter,

Is there anything here mentioned you wanted to say more on? Like parts you really loved working on?

I kind of spun myself out on my big ones between the blog posts and my collections of Paizocon tidbits (many of which I was the one to say at Paizocon, chosen because I liked them). But you can always read those again in anticipation!

Designer

Verzen wrote:
I do have to say I am a LITTLE disappointed with the occultist talisman crafter. I was hoping they could craft talismans that are the exact replicas of their occultist implements and pass them out to their party.

Actually even a normal occultist can pass out implements to other party members to grant that ally resonant benefits; but only talisman crafters (among occultists, anyway) can give allies their spells to activate!


Noxxos wrote:
Hey Orb, can you give me the low-down on Fleshwarping?

Certainly!

Spoiler:

There are 3 different types of Fleshwarping detailed. "True Fleshwarping" is the classic drow procedure. There are rules for creating all of the various fleshwarps throughout the bestiaries.

"Fleshcrafting" is a procedure of grafting living tissue onto a creature, to grant it new abilities. Fleshcrafting can also be accomplished via elixirs that grant the graft's effects temporarily. Different grafts grant different abilities and penalties, and are crafted similarly to magic items, requiring a specific new crafting feat.

The third section details Fleshwarping mutations, which can be caused by all manner of things. These are randomly inflicted due to exposure to certain mutagenic agents, and are almost entirely undesirable.


I'm kind of upset.

Obviously, waiting for the PDF to be released, but the whole system I was looking forward to, was corruptions. Options to play the monsters without the baggage of the always-evil prejudice, and make some interesting characters within the rules, rather than by bending them.

is this spoiler worthy?:
My current understanding though, is that the corruptions work with a hard-mode russian roulette, fail three saves and it's done. And in addition to still bedding down with evil, rather than actually eventually becoming these monsters... The bits and pieces I've seen suggest that we'd just emulate some of the features, rather than actually transition into that new type of creature.

I'll pick it up, sure. Still has some neat sounding archetypes, at least. But if this is the case, my enthusiasm for this product has been shot. My whole goal was to find a way to actually BECOME some of those creatures while divorcing bad systems that made me and the GM have to do unhealthy things to the rules to make it work.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Mister Seifter,

Is there anything here mentioned you wanted to say more on? Like parts you really loved working on?

I kind of spun myself out on my big ones between the blog posts and my collections of Paizocon tidbits (many of which I was the one to say at Paizocon, chosen because I liked them). But you can always read those again in anticipation!

Ah yes! I remember you posting about those things. I just forgot! Thank you for the reminder! :)


Shiney wrote:

I'm kind of upset.

Obviously, waiting for the PDF to be released, but the whole system I was looking forward to, was corurptions. Options to play the monsters without the baggage of the always-evil prejudice, and make some interesting characters within the rules, rather than by bending them.

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, I'm disappointed about the lack of player friendliness it sounds like it has. I mean, if it's just a thing for turning players into NPC's after an adventure or two it should be in the back with the rest of the GM content at least.

Guess I'll just rely on making homebrew and using third-party content when it comes to actually playing a monstrous character.


Quote:
My current understanding though, is that the corruptions work with a hard-mode russian roulette, fail three saves and it's done. And in addition to still bedding down with evil, rather than actually eventually becoming these monsters... The bits and pieces I've seen suggest that we'd just emulate some of the features, rather than actually transition into tat new type of creature.

Don't have the book, but I hear there's some corruption options to prevent going down the dark path at the extent of holding back the power it grants.

So you can choose to play Russian roulette with a peashooter, beanbag rounds, or old fashioned lead.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Verzen wrote:
I do have to say I am a LITTLE disappointed with the occultist talisman crafter. I was hoping they could craft talismans that are the exact replicas of their occultist implements and pass them out to their party.
Actually even a normal occultist can pass out implements to other party members to grant that ally resonant benefits; but only talisman crafters (among occultists, anyway) can give allies their spells to activate!

Oh snap. I didn't know that about the vanilla occultist!


Secret Wizard wrote:
Quote:
My current understanding though, is that the corruptions work with a hard-mode russian roulette, fail three saves and it's done. And in addition to still bedding down with evil, rather than actually eventually becoming these monsters... The bits and pieces I've seen suggest that we'd just emulate some of the features, rather than actually transition into tat new type of creature.

Don't have the book, but I hear there's some corruption options to prevent going down the dark path at the extent of holding back the power it grants.

So you can choose to play Russian roulette with a peashooter, beanbag rounds, or old fashioned lead.

Thanks for this, and not to sound mean, that's hardly my intent, but:

If I wanted to hold back the powers of turning into a monster like a vampire, I'd look for some complicated system where I duplicate some of their powers without actually turning down that dark path- Oh, wait, that's kind of what we have, isn't it?

I admit, I'm a little salty. Still enjoying everything else I hear about the book, archetypes, sanity, etc. But really, that whole 'become a monstrous character' thing was the big thing for me.

Designer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Shiney wrote:

I'm kind of upset.

Obviously, waiting for the PDF to be released, but the whole system I was looking forward to, was corruptions. Options to play the monsters without the baggage of the always-evil prejudice, and make some interesting characters within the rules, rather than by bending them.

** spoiler omitted **

There's actually three suggested modes for corruptions, call them "average", "dark", and "beneficial" and you could easily extend them further to "extra grimdark" and "super beneficial" without too much trouble ("as beneficial, but no catalyst progression instead of / in addition to ignoring stains" does it more-or-less), especially since beneficial already recommends that you give a corruption to each PC when using it. I think Jason used a progression even different from all of those in his game with the shadowtwisted corruption (as he mentions in a few blogs), and he came up with his variant pretty easily from the baseline. Subsystems exist to be used the way your group as a whole wants to use them!

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
Shiney wrote:

I'm kind of upset.

Obviously, waiting for the PDF to be released, but the whole system I was looking forward to, was corurptions. Options to play the monsters without the baggage of the always-evil prejudice, and make some interesting characters within the rules, rather than by bending them.

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, I'm disappointed about the lack of player friendliness it sounds like it has. I mean, if it's just a thing for turning players into NPC's after an adventure or two it should be in the back with the rest of the GM content at least.

Guess I'll just rely on making homebrew and using third-party content when it comes to actually playing a monstrous character.

The save you have to make to prevent from gaining a corruption stage isn't that bad. It's 15 + manifestation level (you start at 1).

So that's a DC of 16 minimum.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

You also don't 'have' to use the aspect of losing control of your character, too. Remember. These are just guidelines. Nothing is set in stone in a homebrew.


Orb, could you give details on other combat feats, please?


Verzen wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Verzen wrote:
I do have to say I am a LITTLE disappointed with the occultist talisman crafter. I was hoping they could craft talismans that are the exact replicas of their occultist implements and pass them out to their party.
Actually even a normal occultist can pass out implements to other party members to grant that ally resonant benefits; but only talisman crafters (among occultists, anyway) can give allies their spells to activate!
Oh snap. I didn't know that about the vanilla occultist!

Strong Implement Link can make giving out Implements less painful. Extend Resonant Power offers a different way to share some Resonant Power benefits.


So what sort of character options are there for opposing these horrors rather than becoming them?


A question for anyone who has the PDF -- just how does the familial lich and their phylactery work? They get killed, hop to a still-living family member and lich-ify them, or what?

And thanks to everyone who's shared information about this book so far.


What's the scoop on the Deep One Corruption?


7 people marked this as a favorite.
Deadbeat Doom wrote:
What's the scoop on the Deep One Corruption?

Word on the street is that it's beginning to look a lot like fishmen.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Deadbeat, they get swimming based stuff. Increased swim speed. The more manifestations, you eventually stop being able to breath on land.


Huh, going back a few pages, apparently Void domain is now canon.


What are the stat increases and abilities granted by the Unstoppable Stalker, Dread Lord, and Apostle Kyton templates?

Grand Lodge

Wish they'd turn on the 'Buy' button.

I am soooooo buying this!!!

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