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The Harrowed Medium


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Reposted from HERE.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Seventh Seal wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Alchemiac,

I'm sure they'll figure something to make a Harrow Medium come to life down the road. This is more for Horror than Harrow.

Maybe, although it does already exist and it's just locked up in a cupboard someplace. I'm just pointing out that the description seems to have changed which severely dropped my enthusiasm.
While I'm just as excited as you to see my little Harrow medium show up some day, I can pretty much guarantee it won't be in a Player Companion, simply due to its length compared to the length of a Player Companion.
I'm just saying it could be the *entire* Companion book, maybe add some archetypes for Occultist and Witch and Bard or something. That would be super hype.

Well... I think Mark has mentioned before that the Player Companion line of books do not have enough pages to hold his Harrow Medium.

So, if the Harrow medium itself won't fit, I doubt there would be any room to include some archetypes, too. At least, not in the same book.

Of course, things might've changed since then. OR I am misremembering. :p

It would be AWESOME to see the Harrow Medium sometime in the future...

<sigh>

I'd like to avoid derailing this thread about Harrowed medium if possible, so maybe start a new thread elsewhere? As a final tidbit, perhaps a worthy one for a starting post in that new thread, someone asked in an AMA for the Paizo GenCon Industry Insiders "Harrow Medium when?" And Wes Schneider (arguably one of the most influential people at the company in deciding what the answer to that question will be) responded "Any time now." Admittedly, that was news to me when he said it, as last I heard from within the company, it was still not a sure thing and was unlikely to be soon even if so. Let's continue discussion of Harrowed medium in another thread so this one can focus on Haunted Heroes...

OK, here's the thing...this medium archetype is in fact the original version of the class. We play-tested an abbreviated version as part of the Occult Adventures open play-test. A lot of people wanted to see the full version, but the designers realized it was too complex and long for release in that book.

So what is needed for this version to come to light? It is obviously too long for the regular Campaign Setting and Player Companion releases. So any suggestions on how we bring this wonderful idea to print?

Paizo Employee Designer

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Feros wrote:

Reposted from HERE.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Seventh Seal wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Alchemiac,

I'm sure they'll figure something to make a Harrow Medium come to life down the road. This is more for Horror than Harrow.

Maybe, although it does already exist and it's just locked up in a cupboard someplace. I'm just pointing out that the description seems to have changed which severely dropped my enthusiasm.
While I'm just as excited as you to see my little Harrow medium show up some day, I can pretty much guarantee it won't be in a Player Companion, simply due to its length compared to the length of a Player Companion.
I'm just saying it could be the *entire* Companion book, maybe add some archetypes for Occultist and Witch and Bard or something. That would be super hype.

Well... I think Mark has mentioned before that the Player Companion line of books do not have enough pages to hold his Harrow Medium.

So, if the Harrow medium itself won't fit, I doubt there would be any room to include some archetypes, too. At least, not in the same book.

Of course, things might've changed since then. OR I am misremembering. :p

It would be AWESOME to see the Harrow Medium sometime in the future...

<sigh>

I'd like to avoid derailing this thread about Harrowed medium if possible, so maybe start a new thread elsewhere? As a final tidbit, perhaps a worthy one for a starting post in that new thread, someone asked in an AMA for the Paizo GenCon Industry Insiders "Harrow Medium when?" And Wes Schneider (arguably one of the most influential people at the company in deciding what the answer to that question will be) responded "Any time now." Admittedly, that was news to me when he said it, as last I heard from within the company, it was
...

It could fit in a Campaign Setting (for reference, it's I believe slightly under 30 pages, so it won't fit in a PComp, it fits in a regular CS but takes a fairly major slice of it with those rules).


Barring that, and I know this would probably be really dumb from a business perspective, it'd be a damn nice perk if you guys ever did another Humble Bundle! ;D


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
It could fit in a Campaign Setting (for reference, it's I believe slightly under 30 pages, so it won't fit in a PComp, it fits in a regular CS but takes a fairly major slice of it with those rules).

True enough, but using up half of an entire Campaign Setting supplement for a single archetype? That is a lot of space used; it would have to be the central purpose of the supplement. What other material would fit in around it to round out the 64 pages?

Paizo Employee Designer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Feros wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
It could fit in a Campaign Setting (for reference, it's I believe slightly under 30 pages, so it won't fit in a PComp, it fits in a regular CS but takes a fairly major slice of it with those rules).
True enough, but using up half of an entire Campaign Setting supplement for a single archetype? That is a lot of space used; it would have to be the central purpose of the supplement. What other material would fit in around it to round out the 64 pages?

Probably it would be a book entirely on the Harrow. We had a PComp for that already, but not a CS.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hmmmm...so something like a Secrets of the Harrow? Perhaps dealing with cultural origins and occult connections? That could be very interesting....


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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

I am greatly heartened to hear "any time now"! It's a very cool class design. I've gotten my group pretty psyched about Harrow in general, so being able to have a class deeply tied to that would be a lot of fun for everyone.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

To be interesting for the largest audience, and keep true to the Setting line, the book should detail the spirits of the cards and the many ways in which they influence the Inner Sea. What each spirit can provide to the Harrowed Medium is but one of the tools at their disposal.

If the rules systems provided to support this can be easily reused for other systems of symbols such as astrology, so much the better

For example, a medium channeling the spirits of the various Hellknight orders sounds awesome


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

The Harrowed Medium is huge because of its spirits. I wouldn't expect it to get anything from Paizo changing out all its spirits, since that would also need to take up tons of space. Third party and homebrew spirit sets should be pretty straightforward, though! Plus, with 54 spirits to choose from, it's likely you can find working combinations of spirits to represent what you want.

Paizo Employee Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
The Harrowed Medium is huge because of its spirits. I wouldn't expect it to get anything from Paizo changing out all its spirits, since that would also need to take up tons of space. Third party and homebrew spirit sets should be pretty straightforward, though! Plus, with 54 spirits to choose from, it's likely you can find working combinations of spirits to represent what you want.

For instance, in our playtest Skull and Shackles game where the Harrowed medium has all 54 spirits available (since I wrote them so wanted to playtest the other ones too), she sees her spirits in different ways and with different names, generally maritime. We also have some significant work towards some cool medium archetypes for the Harrowed medium by John Compton that we had to tell him to shelve because the class had changed after we asked for the archetypes, at least one of which was directly related to reflavoring in a way that I believe would probably work for the Order of the Godclaw, to go back to The Raven Black's example of Hellknight orders.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
The Harrowed Medium is huge because of its spirits. I wouldn't expect it to get anything from Paizo changing out all its spirits, since that would also need to take up tons of space. Third party and homebrew spirit sets should be pretty straightforward, though! Plus, with 54 spirits to choose from, it's likely you can find working combinations of spirits to represent what you want.
For instance, in our playtest Skull and Shackles game where the Harrowed medium has all 54 spirits available (since I wrote them so wanted to playtest the other ones too), she sees her spirits in different ways and with different names, generally maritime. We also have some significant work towards some cool medium archetypes for the Harrowed medium by John Compton that we had to tell him to shelve because the class had changed after we asked for the archetypes, at least one of which was directly related to reflavoring in a way that I believe would probably work for the Order of the Godclaw, to go back to The Raven Black's example of Hellknight orders.

Slams several credit cards and a money bag on the table

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I wouldn't mind seeing a campaign setting hardcover in the vein of Inner Sea Gods focusing on arcane and psychic casters of Golarion.

My wishlist for it would include
* The Harrowed medium.
* Expanded wood and void kineticist entries.
* Spells from previous campaign setting softcovers and hardcovers updated for the occult classes.


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Hello, this is my first time actually posting on the Paizo boards, although I read them often.

I just wanted to be another voice giving support for seeing the Harrowed Medium one day. When I first saw that class, I really liked how imaginative all the abilities were, as well as the way the different spirits could interact with each other. I could definitely see players giving each spirit its own persona as they acquired them through the story.

There's another player in my group of friends who also fell in love with the class. It's telling that we both love it so much that we plan to homebrew out the rest of the spirits, for use in an (eventual) Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign. I ran that campaign several years ago for a different group, and the way the harrow is threaded throughout the story resonated with me greatly. Knowing that, I would really like to take the Harrowed Medium through that campaign.

We're over a year out from playing that campaign, and if push came to shove, we would probably manage with a basic homebrewed version or the playtest version. But I can definitely say that the two of us would be more than happy to play the "real" version of the class. :)

I know you folks at Paizo take comments as a gauge for player interest, so hopefully my two cents (and my friend's) can make a difference. :)


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I would love to see this printed. While still a fan of the medium as printed, the harrow education version taps into such cool flavor that I have never stopped wanting it.


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Definitely wish this would be published.


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I honestly don't care what else you bundle the Harrow Medium with :P (Although a 64-page book that's completely Harrow themed sounds fantastic, and it'd be great to have a couple archetypes that tap into one specific Harrow spirit just to get some extra use out of them.)

I'm buying whatever text it happens to be in as soon as it's published, and I'm one of your customers that generally only buys APs.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The Harrow Medium can't come soon enough. I missed out at Gencon; I didn't run into anyone on the staff to bug about the Harrow Medium.


As much as I would like to see them make something for a Harrowed Channeler (a name I am using for a homebrew archetype I am working on for this very idea) as some people have said before, the book itself could very well be an entire book on just this concept with all the different spirits that could be included.

I myself am trying to take a different approach and having the harrowed channeler start off with a harrow deck and access to just the core legends. As an ability, once per day, they would be able to unlock the legend around a single card in the harrow deck, changing it's abilities to one that has already been released (such as replacing the LE Intelligence card spirit for the spirit of Nex)

Thoughts?


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Since this is going to take up a HUGE amount of space in Secrets of the Harrow, design it so that the Harrow Spirits available to the Harrowed Medium also find application elsewhere, but only the Harrowed Medium and a reload of the Harrower prestige class (awesome concept but kludgy implementation) (and maybe some Harrow-themed Fey, Outsider, and/or Undead) can put everything together.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

On a somewhat related note, I wish Paizo would put out a class book that bases things more on chance such as a gambler base class. Include the Harrowed Medium in that and let them select their class abilities through using the harrow deck each day.


BMovieMonster wrote:
On a somewhat related note, I wish Paizo would put out a class book that bases things more on chance such as a gambler base class. Include the Harrowed Medium in that and let them select their class abilities through using the harrow deck each day.

Ultimate Risk?


Brother Fen wrote:
BMovieMonster wrote:
On a somewhat related note, I wish Paizo would put out a class book that bases things more on chance such as a gambler base class. Include the Harrowed Medium in that and let them select their class abilities through using the harrow deck each day.
Ultimate Risk?

It'd be an interesting archetype for the Harrow Medium to have to choose its spirits based on Harrow readings, but to make it the default is kind of a jerk move for people who like to plan stuff.

Also, while a gambler class would be cool, feels more like an archetype or maybe even a feat tree, depending on what they'd get.

Still, though, I am hyped for this class to come out. With any luck, maybe sometime this year or early next, although don't think there's any exact information on time frame it'll be released.


I'd like more Harrow-based archetypes for other classes, more fate based spells, spells like the numerology series (though my GM probably doesn't), put all that together in a book with Harrowed medium.

...but I'd buy a book of just the Harrowed medium. :)


This would be an instant buy for me, because ever since my wife unexpectedly got a delux harrow deck for me at christmas, I've used it nearly any game it makes sense in, and even when it doesnt I try to play a harrow based character.

This would be an instant purchase from me in whatever form it came in.


Just chiming in again several months later to say that I'm still waiting to give whatever amount of money to buy the book with the Harrowed Medium in it.


Would very much like to have this, but I believe Mr. Mark Seifter is already aware of my desire.


Has it been a quarter since my last poke at this topic? I know I brought it up in another thread a while back. Yes, put me in the "open wallet" category when it comes to this, even though I don't typically buy product anymore.

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