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You could do what I did, basically make a ritual where you can sacrifice sentient beings, allowing them to be turned into an item that can stand in for secondary casters, this is exceptionally good for NPCs as it gives the telltale signs that s#!@ is going down when townsfolk start disappearing.

And a PC can achieve this by getting their hands on some bandits/orc/etc.

A simple house rule I have considered is just having lore skills rise automatically, just let them level up when they can.

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Without knowing what you're trying to achieve, it appears to only fit somebodies sense of realism, by making the rules more needlessly complex.

Here's the thing I use for travel.

I decide on how "off the beaten path" a part of their travel is, get everyone to roll a die dependent on that, including myself.

Basically D12 and under, lower die means the situation is more dangerous.

If anyone rolls the same result as me, the results are something bad, and it's worse when more people roll the same as me. (often a random encounter, but the idea of throwing in something like tripping and hurting yourself etc, might be a good idea)

Now if they roll the same as each other, something good happens.

The best part is of course, that my die is hidden, which keeps the tension up for them.

Anyway, it makes risky territory more rewarding.

Whilst you're seeming frustrated with the "more damage is everything" argument, I look at your "But defense matters" argument as frustrating.

Tho I can't complain too much as there is no morale mechanic, and most things that don't figure into those two really just augment them.

Uchuujin wrote:
Could you use a shifting rune to change a staff into a shield boss or shield spikes, apply them to another shield, and thereby end up holding both a shield and a staff in the same hand?

Bad question, because the boss/spikes are made part of a shield, really they should be part of the original design of the shield.

Also another bad part of your question, the staff is no longer a staff when it transforms...

But taking your idea and skipping the bad parts (as most have done here), I would say it's a GM call, because under the rules, no, you really could not.

But a GM allowing you to transform your weapon into a shield wouldn't be far fetched, tho if they gave you more than a buckler, think yourself lucky.

I've houseruled for my own reasons, that the Bo Staff can be a target, but it behaves like a standard staff, because the spell description talks about vines and leaves, therefore temporarily warping it and removing the qualities it had.

OK, stealing some inspiration from the 5e DMG.

Spell points costs 1st:2 2nd:3 3rd:5 4th:7

The existence of the 10th level slot is ignored entirely.

Starting at level 7 (because any lower does nothing)

All spell slots half you highest slot rounded down & lower get converted into spell points.

So level 7-10 you have 20 points that can be spent on level 1-2

levels 11-14 40 points, 1-3rd level slots

levels 15-20, 68 points, 1-4 level slots

If you want to be immature, give them an extra spell point at level 19.

I always thought that in the 5e casting system, sorcerer should be using the spell points system, or something similar.

HumbleGamer wrote:
Eventually, half lings.

Quarterlings, the slingstaff specialists, who eradicate any and all giants.

I kind of made my own list of halves, but the default rules in well with how I treat humans in my setting, human's are not a race of their own, they are literally the mutts.

If you want to run that idea in the general rules, just get her to take adopted ancestry (gnomes) as a half elf.

I think it could do with not feeling exactly the same as Clerics, possibly instead of giving free casts, give free heightened +1.

I have people having "available" languages based on their start, but learning a language is a downtime thing, not a start with thing.

And most NPC races don't speak common, like I am treating draconic as common for reptilian races, so Iruxi, Kobolds, etc, don't speak common.

The only reason why my guys ended up negotiating with the Iruxi was that each side had a druid.

Now that druid knows draconic, and can understand the vileness the kobolds are saying about them when they fight them.

Orcs speak orc, and necksplitter (took the igorot head hunting axe as inspiration for their cultural weapon in my world, basically a D8 pick, I decided against the Fatal being D12, D10 was enough), and a willingness to coup de grace before moving onto the next target.

I mean, halving the chance for someone to hit you (DC 11 check), everyone being flatfooted to you (which means if you have the Magical Trickster feat, that's a fireball with sneak attack), and that's only after they've succeeded on that perception check you work out where you are.

You know what the problem is here, people forget that the magic does not come from the witch, it's the familiar.

And the general vibe of the class is "some guy is hiring you on the down low"

So I am trying to think of a Divine familiar:

Angel/Devil has the issue of being Lawful, no working off the books there...

Demon/Daemon, yeah try to stop those guys from going rogue...

Now Arcane and Primal don't seem to take moral sides.

Occult seems to get off on being underhanded (and there's some elder god shenanigans going on in there too).

Now the issue with Arcane Witches, I would point to Lev Grossman's The Magician's for his version of Hedge Witches, they're a criminal/beggar element of magic society, and honesty Protection and Deceit really fit that vibe.

Now consider pathfinder's Wizard, Arcane Thesis... nuff said.

Zapp wrote:
3) illustrate - with an example - things I don't understand, like "custom styles, maybe one based on maneuver control" or "create a very tactical fight full of complex reactions" or which actions the PC needs to "counter" attempts at grappling or tripping? (I don't understand how you "counter" a trip. I mean if you're tripped, your recourse is basically to stand back up again? What am I missing here?)

Well considering the maneuvers are the attacker using their athletics vs the defenders fort/reflex dc, with a crit failure leading to it backfiring.

I was just suggesting looking at stunning fist, Stunned, which is an arguably stronger debuff, because losing an action to shove or trip can be either countered with Kip Up or just handled in a different fashion, Stunned is Stunned and Stunned 3 is nasty AF, and it can be achieved whilst causing damage to the opponent without as crit failure result.

So if you were to say make the defender save vs the Disarm (Reflex), Grapple (Fort), Shove (Fort), or Trip (Reflex), it would be nerfing the power of stunning fist, but giving it flexibility, and not have it backfire.

And if the map to get to your Sensei's favourite meditation spot just happens to have lots of 10ft+ drops (which the character might have to climb), spikey bushes, etc, you would give the player a method to defend against a large portion of the Sensei's damage, and a method where the player can fail by relying only on dice rolls.

You can steal my homebrewed Mancatcher

Mancatcher, D8, B, 2H, 2 Bulk, Club Group, Non Lethal, Reach, Grapple, Shove, Trip, 2gp/16sp (Since I made my own stuff when we were still using sp)

More based on the idea of the modern version the police use in some countries, because that whole spiked version...

How taking that idea a little further and making an alternative version to Stunning Fist, that instead of stunned, the opponent makes a save vs Disarm, Grapple, Shove, or Trip. (Fort or Reflex depending on the action)

And if you design a map that's a little more interesting, those Shoves can be rather entertaining...

I just had a thought, Crossbow Ace, instead of upping the damage dice (but keeping the other features), instead it reduces the reload by 1 on any crossbow.

This would make the Heavy Crossbow have the same effect as it currently has (because under my interpretation "simple crossbow" means the D8 version only, maybe I am wrong here)

But it's effects on the other two options would be more interesting:

The normal crossbow would become a comp longbow that treats the user as having 18 str (Gnomes and Halflings rejoice)

And even more interesting would be the hand crossbow as a 1 handed str 18 shortbow, allowing a shield.

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kaid wrote:
Also to make things like daggers viable on a rogue. Most swashbucklers are using things like rapiers anyway and given their athletic shenanigans it really does not make sense for swashbucklers to be a str dump class anyway.

I think if you (thematically) put backstabber on daggers, you pretty much open up daggers as more usable weapons.

Well I went in a slightly modified version, tweaking ranges to certain increments.

I skipped the idea of messing with Chill Touch, for no real other reason than changing it from Touch to 30ft changes the spell way too much for my liking, and since I think the entire spell might need a rework, why bother tweaking it.

But I did settle on the idea of 30, 50, 80, (120, 500, Planetary.) being my standardized stuff.

Daze/Rof 80
Everything else pretty much stayed the same.

The next part didn't really change with these tweaks, it just provided different tools to use.

Basically, the optimal ranges (from the enemy frontline) tend to be 5, 10 (Reach), 25 (Aggressive), 35 (Healer), 45 (Archer/Caster), 60 (Sniper)

85, 110 also exist, but the safety they provide is b+@&$%$+ in comparison to the benefits of being able to target everyone of worth on the other team.

If you want to understand what I am talking about here, take 5ft (Melee Range) and keep adding 25ft (Standard Moves)

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It's explorer's clothing with runes, this post is going to make to compare the levels of both options...

I don't know how balanced this would be, but if the issue is the player having fun with the feat (which honestly feels like is the main problem here)

Why not just have it a reaction that forces the attacker to reroll their attack and you take the new result?

Whilst it will always be used on crits, players might will gamble with hits possibly turning into crits, which sounds awesome, especially for those of us who use software that rolls damage with the attacks, because maybe it just hits again... for more damage.

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K1 wrote:
Acrobatics with all characters as main skill.

I assume tumble is the reason for this? is it really that good?

Quandary wrote:
The real problem with Chill Touch is it's Crit Effect VS Undead requires a 2nd Save (Will).

I think straight will save might be the best idea for undead, because it's easy to justify a fail causing flatfooted.

Cyder wrote:
What if touch cantrips were only 1 action to make up the trade in being in melee range. It would still cost an action and a feat (Reach spell) to make them not close range.

You'd have to nerf their damage/etc, and I would make them Somatic (risking the AoO still)

Not to be a Necromancer here and revive a dying thread, but I just had a thought and all the "I'd rather not be that close to enemies" replies kind of inspired it.

How about adding 30ft of range to each of the attack cantrips except EA?

This would be the simplest tweak and this would also
A) Make both Ray of Frost and Daze better at what they do, battlefield control.
B) Make Chill Touch even worth bothering with.
C) Move the Casters back with the Archers

A sword and board swash, forget the parry, but grapple, disarm and trip whilst wearing handwraps.

If riposte attacks happened on a fail when welding a parry weapon, not just crit fail, I could see a point.

I'd just run it as a Short Sword and Scabbard that effectively has Glamoured on it.

Just a thought here, I think Flexible Studies (Feat 1) would make a great standard class feat, and make the number of skills be based on your INT mod, this would commonly end up being Lore skills (maybe make it only lore skills), which would really fit the class.

Here's a question, would it make Divine Lance imbalanced to allow Neutral to select the other options, Say NG could use both Lawful and Chaotic? Assuming this gives TN all options.

Thematically this fits with TN because they are opposed to all extremes.

Adding the weapon rune bonus to disarms is the only advantage I can see to using the Main Gauche, which can be done from the Rapier (tho I've altered the Rapier in my house rules)

I am not seeing much point to Parrying weapons...

Hell if you build a Fighter with Dueling Parry and wield a Buckler, you can also perform all the maneuvers that require a hand free, gain a safe +1 AC and a less safe +2

In the case of a Swashbuckler, you can just have the same AC, safely, and have access to all the maneuvers.

IMO, what makes it worth using is that it frees up your first level feat as a Ranger, and if you're a fling, consider an animal companion, and maybe one you can ride (available at level 6).

Currently one of my NPC's is a dino riding fling. (My important NPC's are built like PC's)

Sapient wrote:
How viable is it for a martial to MC into a caster and use the Shield cantrip and a 2-handed weapon? You get half the AC boost, and only one block per combat. But you don't have to fix it and it heightens for greater hardness.

I think it's more viable to use a buckler and dual handed assault.

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The Raven Black wrote:

Tradition > local law > personal preferences

I really like this explanation

I think the Tradition/Local Law thing can be swapped around, depending on the character.

And I think we can use that as a basis for the other two alignments

Neutral moves the personal preference in between the two, so a NE thief might value personal preference over Local Law, but might put certain Traditions above his personal preferences, like not welshing on a deal.

Or a NE Merchant might follow the letter of the Law, but not give a toss about Traditions.

Where a Chaotic character would put personal preference above both.

Watery Soup wrote:
The favored weapon is neither (IMO) something that can be ignored all the time, nor is it something that can never be ignored. It is at least a ceremonial weapon that every champion and cleric owns and maintains, and at most the default weapon in combat.

I agree with this, but I think the maintains part is very important.

I am houseruling a similar item (not playing PF1 myself, I wasn't familar with the belt), mostly because I wanted to create a knife throwing NPC, and the Yoyo effect of the returning rune just feels off.

Restocking Quiver/Belt/Bandoleer

Non Consumable Items (so normal arrows, but not single use arrows) removed and used to make a ranged strike with within a single turn, return to the container at the end of the turn.

This allows a certain quick draw knife thrower, who will eventually have a variety of knives, to just look cool.

But for the general player, they can survive on a handful of arrows/bolts, regularly throw a javlin, etc.

I am also giving my Iruxi tribe the knowledge of how to make wooden shields with a javelin compartment, and since many of them are rangers, quick draw is going to get some use there too.

Samurai wrote:

It's really very simple, just rearrange your order of actions. You get 3 per round.

Action 1: grip your Greatsword with your second hand.
Action 2: Attack
Free action: Release your grip with your shield hand
Action 3: Raise your Buckler

Wash, rinse, repeat next round...

You managed to find a way to make the Buckler useful... tho I'd be inclined to say that a Greatsword is always 2H, but a Bastard Sword...

"the DC cumulatively decreases by 1 on each such save."

I wonder if expanding that part would be helpful, as in each time a creature has to make a save vs incapacitation (during a 24 hour period maybe) they lower the required DC by 1 (or more)

Tender Tendrils wrote:
Sometimes the law that you respect is a personal code, and the actual literal legal system is secondary to that.

Agreed, but as a GM, I'd want that code to be strict, preferably based on something.

Gnome Fighter, Lunge, Advantageous Assault, Whip, Flickmace, Athletics Assurance....

Trip, Hit, Move.

You can choose 15ft so you hit them when they approach you, or 10ft to hit them when they stand up.

Forgot the Cantrip as an Ancestry thing, if they decide to keep their range.

mrspaghetti wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
You think it's a significant problem and other people don't.


It's a cantrip.

Why don't you want it changed then? It's just a cantrip, it shouldn't matter.

P.S Continuing with the simplistic numbers that provide a kind of mental image.

It's currently like 14 on single targets, and 28 on two targets.

I tried looking at no spell mod on two targets, doesn't dmg on save, doesn't crit, combinations of the those 3 options, and they all had issues, and then let's not get into other options I decided against, mostly because the of the complexity of implementing them.

Making EA scale like Daze is really simple, it still allows it to perform the same function, with it still being the highest damage if you hit two targets, with it being the same damage as Daze and Acid Splash. (Imagine 9 dmg hypothetically)

With the more bread and butter damage cantrips being RoF and PF being slightly higher. (now think 12)

With TP being around the same increase again. (think 15)

And EA 2 targets being the same increase again. (Think 18)

Lawful is a reliance on structure, so if someone is one second late handing in a form:

LG might find a loophole to help the person, or might talk to their boss about giving leeway, depending on how life/death the need is. Because whilst they're not going to break the rules, they'll do what they can to help the person.

LN&LE would just send them away, LE might consider a way to swing it to their advantage tho, this one doesn't need much explaining IMO.

NG would likely consider just accepting it, depending on the need, because whilst they prefer not to break the rules, sometimes they see need.

CG would just accept it, because arbitrary rules help nobody.

NE&CE would likely ask for a bribe, with CE proceeding to use the information enclosed to rip them off at a later date, because whilst the NE taking a bribe is clearly breaking the rules someone else came up with, but they are not likely to cross the person they are doing a deal with, because it's part of the rules they actively entered into.

CN&TN accepting the form would likely be based on a balance between how much extra work they'd have to do, and how much that person needs it, with the CN likely dumping as much extra work involved on someone else as possible, because TN's are pretty much always about cost benefit analysis, and CN's are not too fussed about personal responsibility.

Yup, tho mechanically, the weapon side of a shield and the shield side of the shield are two different things.

I have been tempted to change the boss into a D4 with Shove.

There are no shield runes... (Well I have created my own)

Consider that idea, then you too can spend more time than you should have, doing all the maths, making sure you didn't unleash 5E's Sharpshooter into your game.

You could do some interesting homebrewing here, and link this in with the divine ally.

So Blade Ally would up the dice as normal for using the deity's weapon.
But Shield Ally could increase the Hardness of your shield by an extra 1 if you have your god's symbol on it.
Steed Ally could maybe do more charge damage or maybe more quicker, if they have a caparison on with clear symbolism for the deity.

I think the biggest problem is the words used, Selfless vs Selfish, Rigid vs Flexible. IMO are more accurate terms.

Honestly I kind of see Paladins as militant communists.

Ediwir wrote:
I get the feeling someone here still hasn’t grasped the fact that electric arc deals more damage than the other cantrips ON SINGLE TARGET...

Yup, worked that one out myself, once it dawned on me about the half on save.

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