Had a great session today and something very unexpected happened. My main antagonist, Eladrin, has a Demonic weapon that is bound to him. After a few good roles and some clever moves, one player managed to disarm Eladrin and another player snagged the weapon. This weapon has a fragment of the demons soul in it and you can actively communicate with the Demon at will. (So the player who took it already had a nice chat with the Demon). Essentially, this sword provides some evil bonuses to the wielder, but every time you do damage or kill with it, it feeds the sword thus making the soul fragment more powerful.
Now, the Demon wants his weapon back in the hands of Eladrin, but I don't want to be a cheesy bugger and say it has Returning or can simply teleport back. Obviously, Eladrin is going to seek the weapon and try to take it back.
Any ideas on how Eladrin should go about seeking it? Or maybe the Demon might have a trick or two up his sleeve? I think this will make next session REALLY interesting and fun :D
NOTE: Eladrin is based off this http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-17/shadow-cleric-elf-cleric-18
Edit: Spelling error.
I presume this weapon is a very powerful intelligent item. Are your PCs actually trying to use the weapon? Can your BBEG and the sword communicate with each other? There's a lot of stuff you could do with this.
Can Eladrim talk to the demon any other way?
Does he have an organization willing to ransom the sword?
What information does the Demon possess?
Could the sword swing a deal like, I will help you find and kill <...>, and you can take all of his treasure, but you must leave me imbedded in his heart. Then Eladrim can just swing by and pick up the sword. Net result, sword returned and an annoying rival killed by a third party, all good for Eladrim.
Your presumption is correct. Originally, my players character wanted to use it to stab the BBEG but after talking to the Demon, she no longer wants to, the players are now a few hundred meters away from the BBEG.
The wielder of the sword can communicate with the Demon inside. The BBEG can feels its presence (similar to how a Nazgul can feel the presence of the One Ring) but he does not have a GPS saying "turn right at Mt. Doom and you'll find your sword".
More or less, the players did some stuff I didn't expect so I'm just looking for ideas to expand the possibilities.
Can Eladrim talk to the demon any other way?
Does he have an organization willing to ransom the sword?
What information does the Demon possess?
Could the sword swing a deal like, I will help you find and kill <...>, and you can take all of his treasure, but you must leave me imbedded in his heart. Then Eladrim can just swing by and pick up the sword. Net result, sword returned and an annoying rival killed by a third party, all good for Eladrim.
Yes.
No.A lot. This Demon has been around for a while causing all kinds of trouble.
While it could, it wouldn't want to. The goal of this Demon is to create situation that inflict the maximum amount of political, societal, and economic damage as possible. For example, if it had the choice between killing a king or not, it would pick the option that would lead to the most long term conflict and war... just because.
If you're wanting to know what Eladrin gets out of this, he is using the power of this blade to secure a powerful magical artifact.
So, the party has caused some strife and discord by killing someone, will likely be in the middle of more stuff because of that, causing future discord, and the sword ends up where it wants to be? It has problems with this?
On a meta level:
. The party is rewarded for clever play, without harming the plot-line.
. The party has more hooks into the campaign, strengthening their involvement.
. The party has a chance to pick up clues and backstory, as above.
. Some ambiguity is introduced, allowing more roleplay possibilities.
Am I missing anything?
So, the party has caused some strife and discord by killing someone, will likely be in the middle of more stuff because of that, causing future discord, and the sword ends up where it wants to be? It has problems with this?
On a meta level:
. The party is rewarded for clever play, without harming the plot-line.
. The party has more hooks into the campaign, strengthening their involvement.
. The party has a chance to pick up clues and backstory, as above.
. Some ambiguity is introduced, allowing more roleplay possibilities.Am I missing anything?
Well the party didn't kill anyone during the encounter today. They took the sword and GTFO of the situation. The BBEG still lives. One thing I did not mention though was that physical form of the demon is imprisoned and if the sword is in the hand of the BBEG, that is his best bet of becoming free. (This campaign has been runnning for a few years so all the story details at this point are a bit much to type here).
The last thing I want to do was punish the players for clever play, which is why I'm thinking what the heck is the villain gonna do now. How to make it interesting, what can I do to intrigue the players even more now. I mean, a lot of antagonists power is gone, but he is in no way a neutralized threat as a result.
I do want to have some consequences to having the sword (not necessarily punishing). I failed to mention this, but the PC who picked up the sword had images of death and destruction plus a few other things. I could drive the plot forward with those.
Sounds like you have it in hand. Have fun with it.
As a LE DM I would make sure the players didn't want the sword after a few sessions
1. Its a powerful demon in a sword. Opposed Ego check?
2. Some intelligent items have powers only they can activate. Might use scorching ray/fireball in the midst of a diplomacy check. Illusions are particularly fun to use here
3. Trickery. If its a subtle demon it would take great pleasure from getting the players to commit horrible atrocities preferably against enemies of Eladrin/himself. Disguise/Alter Other :D With minuite/lv duration it might take a while for the players to even find out they just killed their loved ones
4. If it gains power quickly enough the smart players will get very very scared
5. If the wielder is a fighter type the sword could give him the benefits of a Wild Rager(Ult Combat pg31) if he gets enough kills in a period of time
6. If the releasing of the artifact would bring about optimal destruction it is very real possibility for it to try and use the players for such purposes. Heck Eladrin could go along with this and follow along until it was unearthed then bam. Call back the sword final boss fight go
Once the players have decided to get rid of the sword that can be an adventure in of itself ^__^ If the idea of breaking it comes up it is pretty easy to mention that the demon might get set free. As a last note I'm not saying screw your players. I am saying screw with them if they decide to keep a powerful demon close at hand
As a LE DM I would make sure the players didn't want the sword after a few sessions
1. Its a powerful demon in a sword. Opposed Ego check?
2. Some intelligent items have powers only they can activate. Might use scorching ray/fireball in the midst of a diplomacy check. Illusions are particularly fun to use here
3. Trickery. If its a subtle demon it would take great pleasure from getting the players to commit horrible atrocities preferably against enemies of Eladrin/himself. Disguise/Alter Other :D With minuite/lv duration it might take a while for the players to even find out they just killed their loved ones
4. If it gains power quickly enough the smart players will get very very scared
5. If the wielder is a fighter type the sword could give him the benefits of a Wild Rager(Ult Combat pg31) if he gets enough kills in a period of time
6. If the releasing of the artifact would bring about optimal destruction it is very real possibility for it to try and use the players for such purposes. Heck Eladrin could go along with this and follow along until it was unearthed then bam. Call back the sword final boss fight go
What is a LE DM? ANd to answer your points:
1.) What do you mean opposed Ego check?
2.) It has both passive and activatable abilities. When the Player held it for the firts time, it caused her PC to see images of death and destruction.
3.) I like the idea of it using illusion to mess with the players.. I'll keep this idea in mind.
4.) The PCs are already scarred of it :P (They read about the blade before hand, but they don't truly understand the full extent of its power yet)
5.) Good idea, I'll keep that in mind.
6.) I just might use this :D
I got a lot of good ideas from you guys so far. I'm honestly so glad my players did this.. it is gonna make the final arc of the campaign a WHOLE lot more interesting.
There are some neat rules regarding possession and what things like demons possessing a sword could probably do. XD ...The point is, players probably shouldn't feel too rewarded for stealing the items of enemies, or they're probably going to start doing that on a frequent basis. Feel free to make it clear that it's neither safe nor friendly, and maybe reveals nastier and nastier effects as time goes on...
Yeah I think I know what I'm going to do now. Essentially, the Demon is going to trick the players into thinking they are harming Eladrins final goal but instead it is actually going to secretly point the players towards the artifact. And once the players find the artifact and Eladrin crosses paths with the PC's... he'll call the sword back and BAM epic boss fight.
Thanks for the help guys! I think this is gonna be sweeeeet.
Have your PCs find some evidence or even just rumors that Eladrin used to be a mighty champion of good until he found this sword wich slowly corrupted him. another fun thing would be to say that the sword causes the player carrying it to detect as chaotic evil or even as a demon to magic.
Funny you mention that.... Eladrin actually was a champion for good. Essentially, the PCs found the artifact that Eladrin was looking for (before he had Demon sword) so he stabbed a PC in the back to get to it. The PCs managed the prevent him from reaching it, but the artifact activated some defenses and teleported away.
Shortly after, Eladrin found the demons prison, made a deal, and took his sword (which was located right outside his prison. Long story short: thousands of years ago, a hero fought the demon, disarmed him, casted an Imprison spell, and died moments after. The sword was just outside the Demons reach until Eladrin essentially picked it up and made the deal)
Maybe the demon has enemies that recognize he's in a weaker state and go after the sword to destroy it. There could be a good artifact that is in position now to destroy the demon and/or Eladrin could swoop in at this time to win back the sword, defeat the party and the good artifact.
1.) What do you mean opposed Ego check?
Intelligent Weapons are able to exert their will on their wielder. If the wielder's will isn't strong enough the weapon basically gets to mind control the character.
The demon in the sword should constantly be trying to trick the holder into doing something bad/evil/chaotic.
As suggested, the holder now has a poweful CE aura.
Sword says "You do realize there are half a dozen well armed people watching you right? Hmm... I do believe I've seen the big one in back before. I wonder if Eladrin might have sent a team to get me back. Ha, ha, ha, this is going to be interesting."
Really it is a team of LG paladins, inquisitors, and war priests trying to destroy the sword. They of course don't know it has been stolen by good guys.
Similarly twisting everything going on:
"You do realize that you personally are now the sole target of every assassin Eladrin can hire."
"Wow, that merchant must think you are an idiot. That wand isn't even close to worth that price."
"Why are you letting that dofus have the protective cloak? You are the primary target taking the most risk?"
Etc...
The quintessential 'cursed' magic maguffins are Elric's Stormbringer and the one Ring. Both got possessors killed.
I had a similar toy get into PC hands decades back and it killed two party members before they realized it was cursed and another three before they could get rid of it. Figure out what powers, etc the captive has and use them maliciously. Mine was a captive Rakshasa with mind magics. Every encounter went bad, Illusions were a real threat and it 'called' to every potential foe. ESP allowed it to throw off 'detectives' and defeat every plan to get rid of it.
Also read Ransom of Red Chief.
Well, an easy way to handle this is to give a couple of trick abilities 'the party didn't know about'.
Summoning something small, weak, and with teleport.
It takes about two rounds for the summoned creature to get away (one for picking up the weapon, due mostly to it being tiny and weak- maybe even needs a str check; the other to teleport; both standard actions).
This gives the party time to stop it with a good smack (Give it like...2 hp), which allows them continued use of the item. It also means that it is just a matter of time before it finds a chance to slip away. Make it doable enough that they succeed a few times, so they feel like they are the ones responsible when they fail.
Make the summon ability a 1/day or 1/week thing. As long as appropriate for the pace of your campaign. A week might be appropriate, since it explains 'why didn't it do this before?'. Do it well, and it adds an element of paranoia, where someone always has to stay up on watch.
Lots of fun possibilities.
Perhaps the BBEG tries a desperate ruse to regain his weapon, such as gating in something more powerful than he can control but knows will be interested in gaining the weapon for itself with the plan of betraying or cleaning up after the fight weakens whoever survives.
Another angle is the blade is done with the BBEG or at least wants to punish incompetence and decides to try to corrupt one of the players. If it can convince one of the players to wield the weapon then have it force ego checks at critical moments in a fight, such as striking down a foe who surrenders or murdering an innocent bystander or causing a diplomatic roe, perhaps some archons show up to claim the weapon only to be attacked by the hapless player holding the blade. Also be sure the demonic weapon tells plenty of lies mixed in with the truth. Perhaps those archons are just slaves bound by the BBEG minion to get the sword, or maybe that's just the blade's suggestion.
To remove temptation I would take the time to really flesh out the extent of the weapons powers and how the consuming souls for power works just so you aren't trying to decide if this or that power or ability is fair or not.
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I see lots of possibilities as well.
- You said the sword could still communicate with Eladrin. Well, since Eladrin is a L18 cleric, he can probably set up communication anyway. So now the sword is in an excellent position to spy on the PCs, since if they don't dare let the sword out of sight, it gets to see all the stuff they're doing.
- The sword may wax talkative. It's never had a chance to get to know the PCs that well before. So it may just try to get a conversation going. After an initial tactless attempt at temptation that PCs surely turn down, it might appear resigned to its fate. It could just swap sarcastic comments for a while, just to get players talking with it. Lots of RP possibilities here.
- The sword may try subtler temptations. If the PCs run into some people who're neutral to them, the sword could offer blackmail information. If faced with enemies, the sword provides them helpful advice on how to hurt them. But the sum of all this advice is coaching the PCs to solve problems with violence and alienate a lot of potential people who dislike the PCs' newfound skill at brusque methods.
- The sword may start trying to convince the PCs that he's the rival of some even greater evil. Which may be a complete fabrication. Or it could actually be true because secretly Eladrin is organizing some evil cult behind the scenes. Then at some point the sword suggests that the best way to take down the greater evil is an alliance with Eladrin and giving the sword back, because "obviously the PCs refuse to wield it, so give it to someone who does". "His soul is damned anyway, may as well make good use of it."
- Whenever the PCs run into hard-to-damage enemies, have the sword point out that it could easily penetrate that DR. Also, maybe the sword is able to shapeshift itself into the shape of whatever weapon type the PCs are particularly specialized in.
- The sword also talks to the PCs henchmen and followers, which at some point the PCs start to notice and may be nervous about.
GM Rednal said:
The point is, players probably shouldn't feel too rewarded for stealing the items of enemies, or they're probably going to start doing that on a frequent basis.
I would have no problem with them trying to keep doing it again. A perfect opportunity to teach a lesson about the dangers of predictable strategies. Once the Unholy Brotherhood of Evil Rulers has your strategy pegged it is all humiliation and misery. The same goes for hyperfocused characters. The best BTW are wizards, since the end effects of their spells are so varied they forget that their process has internal choke points and never really realize their vulnerabilities. Wierd, since about every class in the game has an anti-wizard build or archetype. Admittedly some are really poorly done,
Point being, always reward something clever and unexpected, it encourages fun. Always punish predictable strategy. You need to discourage boring and tiresome play.
...The point is, players probably shouldn't feel too rewarded for stealing the items of enemies, or they're probably going to start doing that on a frequent basis.
...Wut? This is a game where the vast majority of PC wealth comes from killing people and taking their stuff. Stealing it just circumvents the "kill them" part, I see no reason to go out of your way to punish them.
That said, a Chaotic Evil Intelligent Item does not beg for you to "go out of your way" OR "punish them". Anybody with Spellcraft or Kn. Arcana could tel you that's bad news bears. Ego checks are no joke, because even at a low DC eventually you WILL roll a 1.
...The point is, players probably shouldn't feel too rewarded for stealing the items of enemies, or they're probably going to start doing that on a frequent basis....Wut? This is a game where the vast majority of PC wealth comes from killing people and taking their stuff. Stealing it just circumvents the "kill them" part, I see no reason to go out of your way to punish them.
That said, a Chaotic Evil Intelligent Item does not beg for you to "go out of your way" OR "punish them". Anybody with Spellcraft or Kn. Arcana could tel you that's bad news bears. Ego checks are no joke, because even at a low DC eventually you WILL roll a 1.
I would say 'they shouldn't feel too rewards for stealing items of enemies... they haven't killed yet'.
Loot is usually a reward for 'solving the problem'. Right now, they just annoyed the villain and then ran way with his stuff. Nice if their main goal is to protect a mcguffin, not quiet as nice when they have their main antagonist disarmed and far more vulnerable. This game is predicated on the idea that 'murder hoboing is for the good of the world, since everyone is usually better off with the enemies dead'.
If they had killed the evil priest and stole the weapon from him, then messing with them too much would just suck. But they specifically left alone a know problem, one specifically targeting them since they stole the weapon. They should know he isn't going to take that kindly or quietly.
If they didn't get XP from it (or at least not much), then they shouldn't get the same amount of secondary character advanced either.
...The point is, players probably shouldn't feel too rewarded for stealing the items of enemies, or they're probably going to start doing that on a frequent basis....Wut? This is a game where the vast majority of PC wealth comes from killing people and taking their stuff. Stealing it just circumvents the "kill them" part, I see no reason to go out of your way to punish them.
That said, a Chaotic Evil Intelligent Item does not beg for you to "go out of your way" OR "punish them". Anybody with Spellcraft or Kn. Arcana could tel you that's bad news bears. Ego checks are no joke, because even at a low DC eventually you WILL roll a 1.
I would say 'they shouldn't feel too rewards for stealing items of enemies... they haven't killed yet'.
Loot is usually a reward for 'solving the problem'. Right now, they just annoyed the villain and then ran way with his stuff. Nice if their main goal is to protect a mcguffin, not quiet as nice when they have their main antagonist disarmed and far more vulnerable. This game is predicated on the idea that 'murder hoboing is for the good of the world, since everyone is usually better off with the enemies dead'.
If they had killed the evil priest and stole the weapon from him, then messing with them too much would just suck. But they specifically left alone a know problem, one specifically targeting them since they stole the weapon. They should know he isn't going to take that kindly or quietly.
If they didn't get XP from it (or at least not much), then they shouldn't get the same amount of secondary character advanced either.
Well, the players did solve a problem. Essentially, Eladrin ambushed them with several of his best warriors. The players made some clever moves and not only escaped, but took the buggers weapon. After the session, one of my players expressed concern that he might have ruined the plotline but I insisted it only made it more interesting.
Loot comes in various forms. Not necessarily "solving a problem" but it can come from a vast array of things. If a player has their character steal something from the BBEG and get away with it, then all the power to that player! It just means I gotta make it more interesting later :)
If the players have a powerful item of chaos and evil wouldn't that draw in some more enemies? Paladins that want it broken, villains that want to use it's power, etc. I could also see them getting messages from people that would like to "buy" it for whatever reason. The bigger the price offered and more frequent the offers the more afraid the players become
The demon might have servants from when it roamed free just waiting for him to call upon them. Or it could make minions somehow along the way(enchantment, Diplomacy, etc)
One idea I had was the sword using it's resources to make it seem like their in a race against Eladrin to the artifact. He might send minions ahead to kill everyone where the players are headed. Then the sword might say something to suggest Eladrin had beat them there. This accomplishes 2 things for him. First it adds urgency to the player's search. They will be more likely to rush as fast as possible to the artifact. Secondly if they are hurrying they might resort to more efficient tactics that they might not otherwise consider like excessive violence. It is the fate of the world after all ^__^
By LE DM I was referring to the alignment and comparing it to my dungeon master style. Basically I can be a bit to harsh so take everything with a bit of salt
you could give the sword a domination attempt everytime the player using it kills X people with ascending DC.
Start Low so the players don't get insta gibbed and it will give them some interesting choices to make about what to do with the sword. OR they'll put it in a bag of holding and never give another s@@+ about it.
The BBEG had a powerful demon-sword.
What was supposed to happen when the party finally defeats the BBEG? Unless this was the final boss of the campaign, they would have to deal with the weapon.
BBEG, meanwhile, escapes to plan revenge, and to create a plan to get the weapon back. He disappears for a few sessions, and the PCs only get rumors of what he is doing. Them wham, BBEG is back with a plan to retake the sword, and maybe take out the party as well.
The weapon, meanwhile will use guile to bamboozle the party into doing its bidding. Ego checks to the bearer, and diplomacy/sense-motive for the rest of the party. Giving accurate, but incomplete info is always a good ploy. When the party acts on it, they screw something else up when they succeed. The party soon learns to double check not only the info but also the surrounding information they don't get.
/cevah
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Heh, if this had happened with a GM I used to have, my party would be asking ourselves:
Did WE really steal IT? Or did IT end up with US on PURPOSE.