Ogee's page

Last turn of the game, and my character (not Sajan) meets the villain. I determine that my only chance to beet the villain is to use the blessing I have in my hand. I successfully beat the villain. But, then I look over at the deck and notice that it was empty. No cards to draw to reset the hand that I just used a blessing from.....

Given that the villain was beat in the combat phase and triggered a win for the scenario, can we assume that the reset you hand phase doesn't happen and the character survives...or did they go out in a blaze of glory?

Also, someone mentioned about the current characters being able to play in the new sets. Has anyone confirmed this as true or false? Just curious, thanks.

Sorry, I just can't find the link right now. But, yes, it has been confirmed in another thread around here somewhere that the sets are compatible.

Vic Wertz wrote:

We do count the Ninja and Samurai as iconics, but not the Antipaladin. He's a villain, not a hero.

Who says the characters need to be heroes? Playable villain, anyone?

+1. THis sounds like an interesting idea, if the theme and mechanics could work.

raven614 wrote:

Could you use a weapon on the barrier large chest? I would think yes if you used the str/mele check.

I'm sure you cannot use weapons on chests... the barriers are asking for a STR/MELEE check and weapons are just for COMBAT checks (i.e. checks which say 'combat' in the circle).

Another good way to remember this is that if you could just use your weapon, why would they make cards like Crowbar?

Plus, though some like to risk damage to their sword by chopping wood with it, I like to take better care of the tools that may be needed to save my life. Shrug.

That's awesome!

Shameless plug: The charity I'm on the board of:

www.911GivesHope.com

Anyone in the Evansville Indiana or Henderson Kentucky area who is willing to part with a copy of the PACG base set, feel free to drop it off at our upcoming toy drive, the 2013 911 Gives Hope for the Holidays.

http://wkdq.com/events-evansville/911-hope-for-the-holidays/06-december-201 3-eastside-walmart/

Many local children & families spend their holidays in the hospital, either due to chronic illness or tragic events. This is one way to remind them that they are not along and gifts can still appear even in the hospitals.

So much more I could say, but I do not want to hijack this thread. Good job Mike! Anything to help others is a great thing.

-Ogee, the Ogre Paramedic

Oh yeah, and the Anti-Paladin.

Anyway, I'm not suggesting anything of import, just completing your list. Even we haven't decided where we're going next.

If the powers that be vote toward popular culture and mass marketing appeal, I'd suspect the eventual Pirates vs. Ninja meme.

Thank you. What I great second base set!

PACG:RotRL was a huge factor in my family & I attending our first GenCon this year. Now, I see I have another reason to go again in 2014!

As for all the other talk here. I really can see how the faster production schedule will work and that many people are hoping for it. Though, in my family, we just have more spread out gaming sessions and the bimonthly is actually perfect. Almost to the point that I am worried about the 3rd release being a bit early for us. Just have to wait and see...and hope for some extra time for gaming next summer!

Thank you for this document. This, I hope, will help with introducing new players. This really is an important part to understand to help the whole game flow better.

There's been some examples of this posted on BGG.

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4

Yeah, I've seen a few examples posted on Instagram also. Each time it looks like an excellent idea.

@HolmesandWatson, Yeah I agree. Spoilers shouldn't be a consideration here. I can only speak for myself, but the odds of me being able to get into an organized full-on Pathfinder RPG are slim to none. That's partly why the card game works so well for me. :)

+1

I also have very little chance to actually play the RPG. But, the ACG is working well to occasionally fill the need.

But, I really like the idea of more story available. If spoilers are a worry. Maybe this could be a free PDF download with the next adventure path. That way, it's really easy for people to avoid but also really easy to get for those of us who want more.

What they need is a "Printable Copy" button that turns only the FAQ section into something nice.

It would eliminate any hyperlinks like "back to top", the links at the top which direct send you down to the answers below, and the links for other Paizo products.

I agree this would be the best solution.

But, in the mean time. I'd suggest those with a Windows PC do the following (Works on multiple browser types, but does rely on the Windows print dialog window, but likely has equivalents in other operating systems.)

On the FAQ web page, scroll down to where the "Rules Questions" section starts just past all the hyperlinks. Carefully start highlighting (clicking & holding) at the start of the word "Rules". Make sure not to click too far left because you'll actually start highlighting the big column on the left that includes the product links, etc. Then scroll down all the way to the end and stop highlighting at the end of the last answer. Again, do not go too far, though you have a bit more leeway at this end.

Once all highlighted, select print in your browser menu or, even better, press Ctrl+Shift+P. The shift is the key, it will take you to printing from the Windows Print window, select the option where you print only the selected portion. Ta da.

Hmmm. I would very likely buy the POD option, no matter the number of cards in the deck, so long as the price was appropriate for the number of cards. Really, I'd start to rethink the purchase at about $12-$15 dollars, unless there were a lot of cards.

I do not think the PDF should be free. Even if it was only $1. This is something that is costing time and money to make and really is about customer convenience. I'm willing to pay to help make the cost a little less painful to Paizo.

Why? Because, most companies would count a FAQ as good. A few companies may do reprints, but only when the whole set warranted a reprint. That way prior owners could just update their deck then.

I really think this whole debate, though met with stress by many, is an example of good, no excellent, customer service, not poor as some have voiced.

--- My only concerns, and they are small, come from the little OCD voice in my head. I'd likely never fully use a PDF to print because I want the card backs to match as closely as possible. (I do not want to use card sleeves. I think the insert was designed great and want to use it.) The card size difference is really small and I'd like to think I could overlook it, but I would not be sure until they were actually in front of me. So, though it is a worry, I'd still buy them. If I used the PDFs as a print option would be if the card size of the POD bothered me. I'd print the PDF card faces only on a label paper of some sort and then adhere them to the faces of the errata cards. that way the backs are originals and the faces would be one big label rather than marked up or partially labelled cards. (I think I'd only do this on errata cards. Clarifications are what FAQs are for and I'd leave the cards as is.)

Ogee wrote:

When you have more cards in your hand than your hand limit you have to discard down to your hand limit as part of resetting your hand (at the end of your turn). So, you can discard a not as useful card then. But, no discarding just because you don't want something. It is in your hand until used or when your hand is to big.

Actually, while resetting your hand you are allowed to discard any cards you wish, and draw new ones.

Rulebook p9: Reset Your Hand: You may discard any number of cards from your hand. If you have more cards in your hand than the hand size listed on your character card, you must discard cards until the number of cards in your hand matches your hand size. Finally, if you have fewer cards than your hand size, you must draw cards until the number of cards in your hand matches your hand size.
(bold mine)

Thank you. I stand corrected. That's what I get for being on here with only three hours sleep.

But, to clarify for the original question, this is at the reset your hand phase and is not just in the middle of your turn. Realize too that by discarding cards (as opposed to recharging) you are in effect making your character closer to death.

Hey guys! One more question from me, since you were so helpful with the last one.

Say I'm Seelah, and I'm rolling a combat check with no weapons. So, Strength roll of 1d8 + 2.

I use a blessing of the gods, which allows me to roll an additional die on my check.

Does this mean 2d8 + 2, or (1d8+2) + (1d8+2)?

THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH! :P

Sorry for the bummer answer...it is adding a die, not the addition to it. So, 2d8 +2. I know....sorry.

I think people are starting to get a little off-base on this thread. As discussed many times before the creators of this game did not want people to go rules crazy on the cards, but rather understand the purpose of the cards and play them appropriately.

Sajan's attacks are obviously melee. The options are melee, ranged, or arcane/divine spells. Just think about what he is doing. He is doing an unarmed attack in close range to another combatant. It is melee by definition of melee. Yes, maybe it is an oversight to not have spelled it out somewhere. But, I think it is pretty darn safe to assume that is Dexterity-based (because it's martial arts) combat checks are melee.

Also, does Harsk's power to add 1d4 to another location if you recharge a card mean you can just recharge anything from your hand with no questions asked? OR does it have to be an item that can be recharged, and you have to meet the criteria on the card?

Harsk's power is that he can recharge a card to add to a check at another location. It does not list a restriction to the type of card. So, just recharge a card that is in his hand. Realize you cannot replace that card with a new one until after your next turn (when next you get to the reset your hand phase.) So, don't recharge something you might actually want the next turn.

I'm a bit tired, so excuse me if I get a little confused on your question...but....here is what I think you are asking about.

Recharging is when you place a card from your hand back into your desk, to be drawn again in the future). You can recharge cards using skills that they say on that card...or using powers that your character might have. For example, Sajan can automatically recharge a blessing that he uses in his combat.

You can't really just randomly recharge a card. It happens as part of playing that card.

Nothing written about recharging or saying none means no recharging it. It goes into your discard pile.

When you have more cards in your hand than your hand limit you have to discard down to your hand limit as part of resetting your hand (at the end of your turn). So, you can discard a not as useful card then. But, no discarding just because you don't want something. It is in your hand until used or when your hand is to big.

Vic Wertz wrote:

I don't recall having anything that models two-weapon fighting in this set...

I see what you did there. :)

Me too. Lol. Thank you for all the replies.

Daggers have a rule to do just this. It has to be discarded though.

Awesome. Can you tell we have not had a chance to read all the cards yet?

Thank you.

My son & I have played PACG a few times now. He really believes that "his" character Valeros is a complete B.A. We have both learned the rules more and more with each play session and recently I was asked a question. We both know the rules said no, but he asked why. So, I am posing the why question here for feedback.

Why can't certain characters dual-wield appropriate 1-handed weapons?

We know the rules on Page 11 spell out one card only of each type can be played...yadda yadda yadda.

But, he thought it would be cool to have Valeros with two swords, or the thief (forget her name at the moment) with two daggers. We knew a shield would not be available for defense during that turn. He even thought maybe using an off-handed weapon could be a discard or recharge that weapon type situation.

So, has anyone else had this thought? Why is it not possible? Does it just make a player too powerful? Not sure, because I think a similar mechanic is in place for Sajan and using blessings.

What do you think?

Though I use reference cards on lots of other games, while I learn them. I suspect it was an item easily cut in a game with already a huge number of cards. They would also need to have a lot of info on them, and the back cover has a lot more real estate for that.

My suggestion, print the back page of the cover from the PDF. But, format it (in the print menu, really easy to do) to fit on a smaller piece of paper, maybe a half-sheet or 5x7 cardstock. That way you only need to print the number you might actually use, two or three or whatever.

Gary Johns wrote:

Tethior2 wrote:

Gary Johns wrote:

Most of the rules make sense with the "spirit" of the game and was how I interpreted them till I read the messageboards.

Yeah, cards which just need clarification I wouldnt bother with, but the recharge check being wrong on Detect Magic, and the Warhammer missing the MAGIC trait, Scorching Ray saying "BASIC" - they are the ones I would 'fix'.

Warhammer still seemed obvious to me. The other two definitely could use a re-print. I can see having to explain those everytime I introduce a new magic user to the game.

I just went ahead and used a Sharpie to mark the changes on the cards. I bought the game to PLAY, not to collect, so I don't mind marking up the cards with OFFICIAL errata. If I wanted to collect them, I'd buy a separate set and leave them in the original packaging, but I'm not that type of collector.

I think this is a great reminder for me. This is a game I play, and want to play more. This is not a collection on a shelf.

My handwriting is awful. I think I'm going to buy a pack of avery mailing labels and print off replacement text that would be similar in size to the test that it is replacing. Then just print, cut, and stick on the cards, covering the original text only.

The problem is fighting any OCD whims, of scanning the background colors, matching fonts, etc. to make them blend more. That said, it would still be stickers on cards, so still noticeable.

I know that after future reprints, if they offered a limited run of reprinted cards to replace originals, I would buy them. But, I can live with them "fixed" or "clarified".

The only caveat is the character sheets. I really find those irreplaceable. I just cant get myself to write on the character cars because I know that I will reuse them for more than one play through...or (gasp) if a character dies.

Though I find Kyra's healing ability very very useful. I have found that it can be a bane too. You can use up turns that could end up very needed toward the end of the scenario. So, it is best, if your cards allow, to also be able to discard another card after the heal, to get at least one exploration done on the turn.

I like when mechanism goes with immersion.

I agree. I also think this game has a lot of it, when the rules are being debated as debate points alone, I think a lot more of that comes to light.

EDIT: I am not referring to this thread but some others that have grown to a nauseous length of debate.

The Siren says that her damage cannot be reduced, so I'm pretty sure you can't use armors against her.

I would say that is correct. I also suspect the card says it cannot be reduced, but I may be wrong.

But, the issue is not about the type of damage the siren does. It was the debate about what is combat damage and what is not in regards to armor and such. It also mentioned an example "only things that reduce Mental damage (or "all" damage)" that could easily be extrapolated into the talk here about various other types of damage.

Mind you, I could foresee some sort of magic armor or amulet, etc. that could protect you against mental damage.

I think an official response from Vic on the "Defeating Siren" thread pertains to this discussion.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q4ht?Defeating-Siren

It's only Combat damage if you're making a Combat check, or if the monster specifically tells you that it deals Combat damage. All of the monsters that require checks other than Combat checks specifically tell you what type of damage they deal; in the case of the Siren, it's Mental damage. So things that reduce Combat damage do not help with the Siren—only things that reduce Mental damage (or "all" damage).

The part about reducing damage, I think really applies here. If the card says it can stop "all" damage, that is just what it does. In my brain, I don't see half plate stopping mental damage, but hey, it's how it is designed, maybe there is a reason.

I play that the initial damage can be blocked using armor (unless it says it can't be reduced) then proceed with the check as normal, which may include more damage. I think of it as that initial spit of acid or such weakening my shield or whatever.

I'd recommend anyone read that other thread for more clarification or confusion.

But I suspect another party member could play a blessing for you, making it possible to pass.

Vic-

I think there might be a bit of an error in the FAQ. Given it is for a card I have not seen, I am only guessing. But, given the wording of the item, it lends to the thought of it being an error.

Can Sajan use the Amulet of Fiery Fists when he uses Dexterity for his combat check?

Yes.

Resolution: On the item Amulet of Mighty Fists, change the power to:

"Reveal this card to add 1d8 with the Fire and Magic traits to your combat check; you may not play a spell with the Attack trait or a weapon on this check."

I suspect that in the resolution, you should be modifying the Amulet of Fiery Fists mentioned in the question, and not Amulet of Mighty Fists. Unless, you want to really upgrade the mighty fists later in the campaign or something. But, I assume it is actually a different amulet.

Myriade wrote:

What I wonder is if, when we're rebuilding our deck at the end of a scenario, we could consider that the cards that we remove from the deck are ''banished'' back to the box.

You will be removing them from all future sessions of that game, so I recommend keeping the deck boxes from previous adventures and placing them into the box they came from, with both Bs and Cs in the character add-on deck (if you have it). That's what we've been doing, anyway.

I think that answered my only worry about this...Where will all the B's go? Since they came in the box, there is not an smaller box provided to put them in. I'll find out how many will fit in the Character add-on box and put more in the boxes that will stay out. I suspect this has been figured out already by those in the know. Looking forward to having this problem....having all the supplements :-)

"You" in this game always means only YOU—the person playing the card. So YOU can play the amulet to help YOUR combat check, not anybody else's, and YOU can't play spells with the Attack trait or weapons on that check, but there's nothing preventing others from playing spells on that check.

Sorry, this made me grin. Ya YOU over dere, whatch'YOU lookin at? Can I not think of it in some existential term?

On an unrealted note, can we have a redneck gobin at some point and then maybe the game can use the term Y'ALL. You can recharge it and Y'all can come back now, ya hear?

Sorry, I'll stop now. I think Vic deserves a drink.

And it's monsters, not combat, that triggers damage. So you can make a noncombat check against a monster and still take damage, or you could (potentially) have a combat check against a nonmonster that doesn't result in damage.

I think this is likely the best clarification of the whole thread. Thank you. This makes the thought process clear and the logic easy to understand.

NOt that you really need any further input. But, I really think of this as a Wisdom Check...NOT Combat Check. If I had a card that would modify a Wisdom check, I would use it. I think of the Siren as trying to influence your mind...not fight you, per se. So, If you can mentally fight back, you win. So, weapons, armor, etc. do not apply. Reinforcing the thought of it not being a combat check.

I am so glad I found this post. I have had all these questions too. But, sadly, on my first pay throughs, when I came across a spell, I just banished it rather than even trying to acquire it because we had no magic or divine characters in our party. Thank you for asking & answering and problem that has really been bothering me.

Yeah. I think you might be reading it right. Playing the "new guy" just with better equipment. Yeah, I think your character would be seen as weaker. But, then you'd need to team up at a location or really watch your strategy. I think it's to really discourage suicidal play of one party member. Mind you there are ways later, I believe, that will make is possible to revive members prior to the scenario ending. I think, I read that somewhere. (Don't hold me to it.) EDIT: I'm starting to rethink that I read that anywhere. Might be blending games in my memory. But, just the same, dying is something you need to think about. You always have the option of not exploring and just leaving the scenario. Yes, you lose. But, you live to try again.....

I think I avoided most of this confusion, maybe by not thinking about it too much. The way I interpreted Sajan's power was that, when unarmed, he essentially had a d10 for strength. Yes, he actually didn't. But, his power let him replace his strength with dexterity. The power of his martial arts. This meant that cards that were written for everyone, adding to the strength combat check, applied to Sajan, with his d10 "dexterity strength"...so long as he was unarmed....so obviously does not apply to weapons that wanted strength-melee. Made sense in my mind. He is not a samurai warrior with a sword, he is a monk with his fists. Shrug. Maybe I just think of things in my own way.

The rulebook states the when a character dies they loose all the feats they had. As I understand it, when you rebuild a new character you get no feats. This would seem a bit harsh during later scenarios.

If my character dies on the 1st scenario of the 6th adventure, do i really have to build a new character with 0 feats and carry on? I seems I would be at an extreme disadvantage. Thoughts?

On Page 14 of the rulebook, it's a bit hidden in the text. But, the solution to that is there. Instead of being level 0 in those later levels, you start at that level minus at least 2. That way there is still a disadvantage to dying. But, not totally horrific to the whole adventure.

I've been reading through the rule book and setting up a solo game to learn the ropes. I've also been watching some great YouTube play demos online. Is there a complete listing with definitions of game vernacular for things like discard, banish, etc? I like to have a reference while I'm reading the manual, watching the videos. Also I'd like to give it to my players when we are playing for quick reference.

Thanks,

Kizan

I'm no expert like many already on this board are becoming. But, I'd recommend page 10 of the rule book for the definitions you are asking about. Also, page 9 for a quick list of how a turn goes.

Thanks for all the tips & info. I have the Amulet of Fists & Holy Water in Sajan's deck. So, maybe that could mitigate some of the issues. The lack of a weapon with Sajan is not an issue because, how I read it at least, I'm using his dexterity die for his weaponless combat check. I just assume the Amulet will apply. It says strength because it is written for any player to use, not just Sajan. Sajan's character trait then kicks in and let's me use the dexterity die to replace the strength die, carrying the amulet effects with it.

Newbie in training.

@Ogee Make sure you're only recharging Sajan's Blessings that he uses in combat, not the ones for exploration.

Yes, thanks, good point to remember.

Question came up tonight in our game if u acquire a boon that allows u to discard it to explore again can u play it on that turn?

A follow up to that is if u can and u also have a blessing of the gods also could u essentially flip over 3 cards at that location?

1.Free Explore
2.Ally (guide is good example)
3.Blessing (Blessing of the gods)

Oddly enough me and my family have a tendency to run out of time on scenarios.I think it is because we are unsure on this but tonight we played this way and game seem to flow a little better and we came close but completed scenario with a few cards left in timer deck. As opposed to looking over at my son and him not having 3 cards that would allow him to knock out locations quick Harsk + Deathbane crossbow with skill bonus is a mean combo.

I'm not sure if you can play a card immediately after acquiring it, still reading the rules myself. But, I suspect you could, it makes sense. My logic is based on that though of finding a healing potion and immediately using it. Makes sense if you need it and better than just immediately discarding it if you are at your max hand size.

But, to answer the rest of your post. Yes, you could explore many many times in a turn, all the examples you used would work. I recommend usings cards that your player can recharge rather than discard. My favorite is Sajan who can recharge blessings and has a ton of them. So, some locations that have lots of blessings in them, I'll explore just to get more blessings and churn through the location as fast as I can.

Another thing to think about is that you might want to close locations earlier. Maybe not go through the whole location deck, but rather, close the location after defeating the henchman at that location. Yes, you might miss out on some good boons that way, but that is part of the strategy thinking that needs to be done in this game.

First let me say, if this was a RPG, I like to have the players be anything (within reason) they want for character class, etc. It can lead to some interesting story moments.

But, I am wondering if given the mechanics of this card game, if it will be a problem later on if the party leans to far one way or another.

Example, three player group. We chose the monk, the ranger, and the fighter. I understand that some checks could be harder without any magic or divine skills in the group. But, will there be any that could seriously jeopardize the game for us?

We've only just begun, so if need be I'll start another character, or consider playing two.

Given the game can be played solo, I really think that this problem was already thought of by the designers & figured out. But, just want to make sure nobody else has run into a problem.

Thank you for any thoughts.

Old Guy Ogee

Wow. I am so glad I found this discussion board. I have two separate questions to ask.

First, something that is not game mechanics related! But, I was asked a question by a friend who wants to try that game & I didn't know the best answer. He knows the story of the game is based off the RotRL Adventure Path. Though there is flavor text on the cards, he wanted to know how he could find out more of the story. Of course, the first answer that came to mind was to read or play the Adventure Path. He's never played an RPG before though & I'm not sure he's willing to make that jump yet. Is there any other good sources out there? Do the comics cover this storyline? Novels? Anything?

Second, I am not sure I understand multiple players in one location fighting the same villain, henchman, etc. Yes, the players whose turn it is must battle. If the villain just has a combat check...can two players battle or does just the one player take the only available way to fight him? Like someone else asked, I initially wanted to say the player 1 would do x-amount of damage and player 2 would do x-amount, hopefully enough to beat the villain, but I see how that usually that would equal an easy win. So, if I am reading prior posts right (and thinking while I type this), can two players only battle if there are two or more ways to defeat the opponent with hopefully one of the players succeeding?

Thank you for a fun game!

As many others have already done, I wanted to add my thanks for the downloadable PDF character sheets. Though I understand the reasoning, the thought of writing on the cards, or more specifically, my sons writing on the cards, even if small marks, made me cringe. This will really help lessen that stress until I feel comfortable with them understanding what a light mark really is. I had previously thought I'd laminate the character cards so that I could dry erase marker them or something similar. The character sheets solve that problem totally.

Thank you and see you at GenCon!