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There is a serious problem with the Skald that is hopefully just terrible wording. As written, raging song is pretty much worthless for defensive abilities, no escape, and taking attacks of opportunity.

If accepted, the raging song's effects last for that ally's turn or until the song ends, whichever comes first.

Shouldn't it last until the beginning of the ally's next turn where they need to make the choice again (if the song hasn't ended)? Even then, it shouldn't end if the ally accepts it. Temporary loss of con could lead to death. Temporary hp from Energy Absorption is also lost.

This is also a problem if people decide to change the con bonus to temp hp like the unchained barbarian, it would mean losing those temp hp and never getting any back for that fight.

Spoiler:
Unchained barbarian rage excerpt:
These temporary hit points are lost first when a character takes damage, disappear when the rage ends, and are not replenished if the barbarian enters a rage again within 1 minute of her previous rage.

This has been asked on the forums many times, but a developer has never answered.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

The spells say, A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find [spell name], but Pathfinder removed the rogue only restriction on finding magic traps. Even if you keep the restriction it would be the trapfinding class feature.


There is a serious problem with the Skald that is hopefully just terrible wording (ACG not UC). As written, raging song is pretty much worthless for defensive abilities, no escape, and attacks of opportunity.

If accepted, the raging song's effects last for that ally's turn or until the song ends, whichever comes first.

Shouldn't it last until the beginning of the ally's next turn where they need to make the choice again? Even then, it shouldn't end if the ally accepts it. Temporary loss of con could lead to death. Temporary hp from Energy Absorption is also lost.

This is also a problem if people decide to change the con bonus to temp hp like the unchained barbarian, it would mean losing those temp hp and never getting any back for that fight.

Spoiler:
These temporary hit points are lost first when a character takes damage, disappear when the rage ends, and are not replenished if the barbarian enters a rage again within 1 minute of her previous rage.

This has been asked on the forums multiple times, but a developer has never answered.


I don't think the developers really care about level 20. The capstones seem to be considered as flavor that people will look at and few will play.

Touch ac has always been poorly designed. DR 15 is common. So is having one or two immunities and two or more resistance 10s to energy. The many dragons at that level are usually pretty terrible compared to other random creatures.


The prepared/spontaneous disparity in cost for gishes in spells lost is huge. 126,415 gp is the cost to copy every 1st through 9th level spell in Core, APG, UM, and UC for a wizard or arcanist for the first time. I think this doesn't even count spells wizards and arcanists get for free. The cost for a backup set of spellbooks is 25,000 gp. The cost of 5 lost bloodline spells is 127,000 gp for the sorcerer vs the 717 spells the wizard and arcanist get for less.

Runestones of power, the pearl of power equivalents, are twice the price for spontaneous casters (arcanists are forced to use runestones) but don't require an extra standard action. The cost of pearls of power to help cover the loss of 9th level spells for a wizard is 81,000 gp. 285,000 gp buys an exploiter wizard 2 spell slots of every level besides cantrips to equal a sorcerer's output. At least, wizards being able to cast any spell costs them an extra full round action if they don't have it memorized, or sorcerers would be complete garbage by comparison.


I'm just calculating the cost of being a standard gish that uses sorcerer. It is a really high cost and has always been considered suboptimal. I have never seen a gp cost analysis of all the spells they lose which offers another perspective. They lose a lot more than gold and don't gain much for it.


The minimum cost for 15 bab is 635,000 gp. This is using another class to get proficiency with all martial weapons. If not using fractional bab, this class needs to have full bab. The last 3 levels of sorcerer were taken at the end to minimize cost.

2 lost levels of spells per day/spells known
--------------------------------------------------------------
243,000 gp - 9th level runestone of power x3
81,000 gp - 9th level page of spell knowledge x2
--------------------------------------------------------------
324,000 gp - total

lost bloodline spells
--------------------------------------------------------------
40,500 gp - 9th level page of spell knowledge
32,000 gp - 8th level page of spell knowledge
24,000 gp - 7th level page of spell knowledge
18,000 gp - 6th level page of spell knowledge
12,500 gp - 5th level page of spell knowledge
--------------------------------------------------------------
127,000 gp - total

lost favored class bonus spells
--------------------------------------------------------------
96,000 gp - 8th level page of spell knowledge x2
36,000 gp - 6th level page of spell knowledge x2
25,000 gp - 5th level page of spell knowledge x2
16,000 gp - 4th level page of spell knowledge x2
9,000 gp - 3rd level page of spell knowledge x2
2,000 gp - 2nd level page of spell knowledge x1
--------------------------------------------------------------
184,000 gp - total


Double the price if the party doesn't craft the items. This is how much it costs you if you want to restore the lost spells per day and spells known. This ignores bloodline powers, feats, stat differences, and other things gained from classes since you can't really compare them. Wizards and arcanists lose much less money but cannot make up for lost spells prepared without exploits.

The minimum cost for 16 bab is 695,500 gp. If you take 2 levels of hell knight signifier and use fractional bab, you could get 16 bab when combining it with 10 levels of ek and 1 level of a full bab class to gain proficiency with all martial weapons. The last sorcerer level is taken at 20th level to minimize costs.

2 lost levels of spells per day/spells known
--------------------------------------------------------------
243,000 gp - 9th level runestone of power x3
81,000 gp - 9th level page of spell knowledge x2
--------------------------------------------------------------
324,000 gp - total

lost bloodline spells
--------------------------------------------------------------
40,500 gp - 9th level page of spell knowledge
32,000 gp - 8th level page of spell knowledge
24,000 gp - 7th level page of spell knowledge
18,000 gp - 6th level page of spell knowledge
12,500 gp - 5th level page of spell knowledge
8,000 gp - 4th level page of spell knowledge
4,500 gp - 3rd level page of spell knowledge
--------------------------------------------------------------
139,500 gp - total

lost favored class bonus spells
--------------------------------------------------------------
96,000 gp - 8th level page of spell knowledge x2
48,000 gp - 7th level page of spell knowledge x2
36,000 gp - 6th level page of spell knowledge x2
25,000 gp - 5th level page of spell knowledge x2
16,000 gp - 4th level page of spell knowledge x2
9,000 gp - 3rd level page of spell knowledge x2
2,000 gp - 2nd level page of spell knowledge x1
--------------------------------------------------------------
232,000 gp - total


Evolutions that grant additional attacks or enhance existing attacks can be applied only to Medium or larger summoned creatures


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chbgraphicarts wrote:

Theurge gets really silly the higher you go.

If you're playing to level 15, you gain basically the same spellcasting abilities of a level 18 multiclassed character (lv9 arcane, lv9 divine).
If you're playing to level 20, you gain the same spellcasting abilities of a level 30 multiclassed character (lv15 arcane, level 15 divine).

If you're playing up to Epic, you're a freakin' monstrosity, with 20 levels of spell progression for both Arcane and Divine, meaning you have the spellcasting potential of a lv40 character with only 30 HD.

Theurge struggles at low levels (thus it's weak for PFS), but the higher you get, the more absurdly powerful it becomes.

Mystic Theurge is kinda the Onion Kid of 3.5 and Pathfinder.

The following uses prepared casters as the first number. Spontaneous casting use parenthesis. MT gets shafted even more.

At 15th level, I would rather have 8th (7th) level spells in on class than 2 classes with 5th (4th) level spells. At 20th level, the MT gets 8th (7th) with both classes. The full caster got 9th level spells 3(2) levels ago.

You are not equivalent to a 30th or 40th level character because of caster level although there are diminishing returns besides spell resistance. Having 15 or 20 level equivalents in two spell casting classes is like having 2 characters at those levels with only the actions of 1 character.

Epic levels have always been horribly designed for martials and casters. Most people don't hit level 20. All spell progression stops for full casters except for epic spells. I love that I can have 20 bab and 10 epic ab from a 40 level class combination, but if I switch the epic and pre-epic levels around, I have 0 bab and 10 epic ab.

Edit: my MT progression use chbgraphicarts' examples


Have the archer get Bracers of Falcon’s Aim. It is better than keen and bracers of lesser archery combined yet costs less than either of them. Keen doesn't work anyway and the cost gets worse as you add more pluses to the weapon.


Timtao wrote:
It used its breath weapon, with the DC 27 save, and every PC lost half or more hit points. Due to multi-classing, the rogue does not have Improved Evasion. She made her save, but half damage was still a lot compared to her total.

The rogue should not have taken any damage on a success reflex save.

Evasion (Ex) wrote:
If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage.


Wisdom is also a worse offensive stat than strength because it lacks several stat boosts like size and morale (rage).

Edit: for melee anyway


Lots of fantasy has the hero having a magical sword if any magic items at all. Magical items are rare and to be coveted not mass produced items imported from China and India.

For prd material (not counting the Technology guide), up the cost to make magical items (or just have them be found), tinker with cr after a few levels, and limit to prestige classes and these

pc base classes:
Adept
Barbarian
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue

Gunslinger (if you want guns)
Cavalier
Antipaladin
Ninja
Samurai

Bloodrager
Brawler
Slayer
swashbuckler

Spells above 5th are gone. Adept could be flavored to take the place of the typical mage or priest and would be a pc class. Most classes with spell casting get spells at level 4. Ninja can get (minor) mirror image or invisibility at level 2, bloodragers have some nifty level 1 stuff, paladins start healing at level 2, and barbarians have rage powers starting at level 2.

You could increase 8 hour rest healing to 1 hp per d6, 1.25 per d8, 1.5 per d10, 1.75 per d12. Toughness and favored class hp could could heal an extra .25 per level they apply. The healing skill could use a similar increase.


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Wrath wrote:

Teleport goes through the astral plane. Something in the astral plane could stop it, or maybe sense it and track them, or maybe between your current position and your target position is a wall of force and it just stops the spell working at all. The spell doesn't say how you get from point a to point b, and teleport effects in the general description under magic sections says through Astral plane. So it could very well be you travel the entire distance through Astral space quantum speed. Running into a wall of force at quantum speed tends to get messy, so the spell just fails as a built in protection.

Teleport is also messed up by high levels of natural and arane energy.
Turns out those caves with the army in it have...

Then the player should know general conditions in which it will not work. Then they will also likely know that the gm will use this rule to railroad the party. Isn't it nice that many gms feel the need to change lots of caster abilities?


Sorcadin came long before it and was made mainly for the save bonus. It used to be just a 1 level dip in 3.0. I think the combination is mostly used with gishes in 3.5 and Pathfinder (need a 1 level dip in another class for proficiency in all martial weapons for knight phantom or eldritch knight). Oradin is any combination of oracle and paladin. It's first use, that you know of, in that guide doesn't matter.


Divine grace must be replaced by voices of the spheres for the default paladin. Divine Protection needs to have "ability to cast 7th level spells" as the only requirement. We need an intellectual protection feat that adds int bonus to all saves but requires the ability to cast 7th level spells. Only full casters should have this level of power; yet for some reason a full bab class gets it at 2nd level.

Voices of the Spheres:
At 2nd level, a paladin learns to speak and read Celestial, if she could not already.


You only need one spell-like ability to qualify.


thejeff wrote:
Anthony van Poppelen wrote:
I imagine that only oracles will make use of Divine Protection, after all what other divine caster would have a charisma of 14+?
That and bards and sorcerers willing to make a 1 level dip and play the right race or take the right domain - there are a couple that give a second level SLA which is enough to qualify as "can cast 2nd level divine spells."

You can easily take the wood mystery's Bend the Grain revelation or the Fate Inquisition (which can be taken instead of a domain).


The longhammer does .5 extra damage on average (not counting criticals). Keen edge and the keen weapon property do not work on blunt weapons (nor a whetstone but that only lasts a hit and takes 15 minutes to apply). The slight edge in damage goes away when you increase your size.


Thankfully, Dragons got smaller in 3rd edition. The dragon Beowulf fought could easily have been a very young or young red dragon in 2nd edition. There is a scale picture of a great wyrm silver dragon (136' body with a 60' tail) in the Council of Wyrms Campaign Setting. It's toe's claws are about 9 feet long. A great wyrm red dragon would be quite a bit bigger (174'-183' body with a 162'-171' tail). Imagine a halfling attacking him with daggers.


Rynjin wrote:

Student of the Astral Suit? I can't find that anywhere.

It should be in Ultimate Psionics, which is not in the srd. The following is from the alpha posted in the Dreamscarred forum

Student of the Astral Suit:
Your studies in other areas has not hindered your skill with astral suits.
Prerequisites: Invigorating suit class feature.
Benefit: Treat your class level as four higher to determine your number of customization points and which customizations you can select for your astral suit, to a maximum of your character level.


wraithstrike wrote:
Time: By default, time passes at the normal rate in your demiplane. By selecting this feature, you may make your plane have the erratic time, flowing time (half or double normal time), or timeless trait (see Time, GameMastery Guide 185).

I think time still passes in the real world while you are there, but it isn't clear. Time catches up with you when you leave. I would have talked about creating a permanent greater demiplane if not for that. It is pricy but doable for a group of 4 at 9th level.

Timeless::
On planes with this trait, time still passes, but the effects of time are diminished. How the timeless trait affects certain activities or conditions such as hunger, thirst, aging, the effects of poison, and healing varies from plane to plane. The danger of a timeless plane is that once an individual leaves such a plane for one where time flows normally, conditions such as hunger and aging occur retroactively. If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent until dispelled.


Ravingdork wrote:
What planes are there in the campaign setting with that time trait though? Looks to me like the GM would have to homebrew one before you could abuse it.

I am untrained in knowledge(planes). Good thing it is a class skill with the wizard and uses his best attribute. The rules say it exists and that you may do it unless you make a reasonable house rule disallowing it.


A wizard never runs out of spells when he can bring the entire party to other planes at 9th level without outside resources.

Flowing Time:
On some planes, the flow of time is consistently faster or slower. One may travel to another plane, spend a year there, and then return to the Material Plane to find that only 6 seconds have elapsed. Everything on the plane returned to is only a few seconds older. But for that traveler and the items, spells, and effects working on him, that year away was entirely real. When designating how time works on planes with flowing time, put the Material Plane's flow of time first, followed by the flow in the other plane.

Before that, there is rope trick, if there is no pressing time, and no intelligent creature knew of their location, or he could have the rope hidden or disguised.

Casters break the game (and narrative) before that by enabling full healing between all encounters. This is one of the major changes in 3rd edition, and why people say martials can fight all day long. Attrition actually used to affected the mundane characters a whole lot more.


Axial,
1) Yes.
2) I'm not that familiar with psionic equipment. There are psionic versions of spell trigger items. A psion would want to boost intelligence.
3) There is the equivalent feat, Combat Manifestation [Psionic]. I would think combat casting would work fine due to transparency though. You could ask your gm about it if you plan to cast spells too.


Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
The only downside is that you really have to start relying on Harness stone abilities at high levels to keep your to-hit on par with a fighter or smiting paladin.

A 4 level dip into fighter (weapon master) would've helped a whole lot. You would get an extra +3 with the great sword if you bought Gloves of Dueling. You would be have 3 bonus feats. One would make up for the needing to take the Student of the Astral Suit feat so your astral suit customizations to continue to increase during the dip. You can also take offensive customizations like Improved Damage.

You would lose 2 uses of reconfigure and one of augment suit. The feats could help regain some flexibility if not used for pure damage like weapon specialization. You also lose a point of damage reduction.


Aegis (Aberrant ‎archetype) from Psionics Expanded: Unlimited Possibilities isn't legal for PFS, but it deserves mentioning since you can gain up to 5 secondary natural attacks (4 tentacles and a stinger) that will stack with lots others (probably not synthesist or polymorph) in 3 levels or less. It's a full bab class that changes your body and grants permanent supernatural abilities.

.

Level 1 gets 3 points, +1 natural armor bonus, +2 enhancement bonus to Strength, and Hardened Strikes.
Level 2 adds 1 more cp, darkvison, and 2/- dr.
Level 3 gets 1 more cp and allows you to change customizations once a day

.

Each attack takes a customization point (cp). You can take a feat at first level (or later) to get an extra point and/or get a much better feat that should be in Ultimate Psionics (it isn't on the srd but), Student of the Astral Suit, that will get you 5 more cp (if you take 3 levels of Aegis) and opens up things like flight, +5' reach, and leftover points for extra damage on all attacks, or defensive abilities like evasion and the will and fort version of evasion.

.

Student of the Astral Suit:

Your studies in other areas has not hindered your skill with astral suits.
Prerequisites: Invigorating suit class feature.
Benefit: Treat your class level as four higher to determine your number of customization points and which customizations you can select for your astral suit, to a maximum of your character level.

.

Since it is your body unless in an anti-psionic (magic) field. You might even be able to say with a straight face that your character worships Irori, and this is all for role-playing purposes (self-perfection).

P.S. I would like to see how many natural attacks you could combine this with.