Save the Date – Pathfinder Playtest Stream Aug 31!

Where's the stream at?

HERE!

Where's the stream at?

The Paizo twitch.

Where's the stream at?

https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo

Animist and Exemplar confirmed! Coming in a book called War of Immortals.

The truth has been revealed : The class is rare because hair that good only comes around once every century.

It's the "Do you even lift, bro?" class!

Animist and Exemplar confirmed! Coming in a book called War of Immortals.

what's exmplar?

keftiu wrote:

Animist and Exemplar confirmed! Coming in a book called War of Immortals.

what's exmplar?

A folk hero with a divine spark within them! So, I was close with the Hero-God concept!

I kinda feel Animist does a lot of what people wanted from the Witch just from the description

belgrath9344 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Animist and Exemplar confirmed! Coming in a book called War of Immortals.

what's exmplar?

A folk hero with a divine spark within them! So, I was close with the Hero-God concept!

awesome

As a huge fan of the 3.5 class "Binder", I'm psyched for the Animist!

I kinda feel Animist does a lot of what people wanted from the Witch just from the description

Just based on what I have read (not seen the stream) the only difference is animist is nature themed. Which I said back then then that they should leave Witch be occult and make primal a class archetype or different class.

Animists may wind up with lots of Lore skills because the Apparitions (spirit buddies) right now get two each.

So it really does feel like a version of the Binder class from back in the day, like Aristophanes said.

If its that then I don't understand why they said its a new class in Golarion given medium and shaman have been there for a long time.

Same reason they said the Thaumaturge was a new class, Temperans.

If its that then I don't understand why they said its a new class in Golarion given medium and shaman have been there for a long time.

They are vaguely similar in theme in that they deal with spirits, but mechanically they feel distinct so far. I think if I wanted to play the Medium or Shaman and the GM handed me an Animist, I wouldn't be getting the experience I'd be expecting, but I might still be happy with what is going on.

Same reason they said the Thaumaturge was a new class, Temperans.

Fair enough on that.

Pieces-Kai wrote:

I kinda feel Animist does a lot of what people wanted from the Witch just from the description

Just based on what I have read (not seen the stream) the only difference is animist is nature themed. Which I said back then then that they should leave Witch be occult and make primal a class archetype or different class.

The Animist is not nature themed. It is divine. The spirits that the Animist can entreat with can be any of the other traditions. It is a class that everyday gets to pick a handful of spells from other traditions based upon what spirits it entreats with that can be cast spontaneously that day. So it maybe has a little bit of the Arcanist mechanics that people have been pining for for a while. It feels like a lot of design space went into the different avatars for the spirits. I hope folks do a lot of level 20 play testing.

I definitely have some questions about the Exemplar. It seems like a martial class that is going to have a pretty basic chassis and a lot riding on what feats you choose. In that way, it will lean on some Kineticist design elements. Maybe it will have some of that not casting, mostly a regular joe martial, with a few very repeatable magical gimmicks. Maybe that is new mechanical space? We'll see. The feats are going to be really flavorful and have to pull most the weight of the class. I am sure we are going to get a lot of over-the-top names and abilities with it. I am not sure that is going to feel like the game has something really new in it when someone plays an exemplar, but I am sure the player playing one will feel like they get to make a character who is the protagonist of their own story.

I have to be careful making and playing characters like that. Even when I try to lean into cooperative mechanics with those kind of characters, when the narrative says, "steal the show" it can be hard not to run with that. I can see the value in making it rare.

Thinking about it more, depending upon how the cycling of the divine spark through the Exemplar works, there could be some interesting and fluid tactical elements to the class that are new and fun for the whole party. I noticed that with the psychic in actual play too. I feel like the play test magus offered a lot of this as well but had some of it shaved off for simplicity’s sake. Maybe we are deep enough in the game’s cycle to offer classes that can have more complexity to their action cycle?

Thinking about it, I wonder how much of an issue the possible "I'm the protagonist" will be in actual play. Don't get me wrong, it'll definitely be an issue at some tables. But, when I put actual thought into it, there is plenty of media where those who are seem to be protags take a bit of a back seat to another character, even if they are divine in nature. Best example I think would be Moana. Granted, I haven't seen the movie myself yet (im weird abojt shows and movies), but Moana is clearly the main character, while Māui is more a deuteragonist.

The Exampler being Rare, it would defiantly merit a session zero, or at least a conversation with the GM in most cases. It would take some work on the GMs part to nip it in the bud then, with a "you are in a party" talk, as well as potentially reeling the PC in at the table if it becomes they becomes too disruptive to the game. But, it maybe not be as big an issues as many think. 100% will be one at a lot of tables; but I'd say it is manageable.

That said, I forsee many a table having to deal with a likely comical "You're welcome" situation every game. Lol

Not thrilled with the Exemplar flavor and rare tag. Rare means less access to the class. And the flavor means it needs to be handled a bit by GM and player to make sure it "plays nice" with the other players and the story being collectively told.

I'd rather have been handed a class that everyone can play without all that baggage.

It's just not a good fit for some games (I.e. most if not all that I've played in over the last decade). But maybe dumping the flavor for something else will make it more palatable in my group.

Guess we'll see how else the mechanics might be flavored tomorrow.

I'd rather have been handed a class that everyone can play without all that baggage.

I mean, what about a divine martial who gives themselves self buffs is too much baggage to be playable? Because at its core that's what the class is as described.

I mean, the feats we’ve seen push pretty outrageous narratives. The exemplar is not going to fit in a lot of campaigns with serious tones without a lot of narrative reworking. Rare makes a lot of sense for this class, but that does give it some limits. I think it could work and be mechanically interesting, but we’ll see better tomorrow.

Not thrilled with the Exemplar flavor and rare tag. Rare means less access to the class. And the flavor means it needs to be handled a bit by GM and player to make sure it "plays nice" with the other players and the story being collectively told.

I think it's rare mostly because it involves being splattered by the metaphysical viscera of a newly-bisected deity, and there's only so many globs of god-stuff to go around. It's rare because it's a "right place, right time" thing for a specific event that's unlikely to happen again or at least frequently.

It's rare in the sense that if you go back 100 years there are precisely 0 people with this class, and if you go forward 1000 years there might again be 0 people with this class.

I put my graphic designer XP to work and took a stab at stitching up the image preview tiles so that you could all have a nice, clean image.

Enjoy. :P

It's rare in the sense that if you go back 100 years there are precisely 0 people with this class, and if you go forward 1000 years there might again be 0 people with this class.

The first? Yes. The second?

Well, we have Exemplars now. The impression I get is that their godspark is something that grows with them. Even if they don't make it to immortal, an Exemplar dying might just spread it around that much more.

...or you could be right.

I am slightly amused though that this is book all about immortals, but its very unlikely to be 2e mythic book :D So we are getting some non level 21-25 mythic flavor a bit here

I think the biggest limiting factor here is really just ones imagination. Tabletop at its core is all about creating compelling stories that enable opportunities for a PC to shine, no matter their choices. Out of 100 different games that one may participate in within their lifetime, if I'm unable to develop a story or two that allows a PC to engage in the fantasy an Exemplar might offer, I'd say that's more on either my preference or inability to not tell those stories, and not the fault of the Class for existing.

It might not be for everyone, but we have plenty of accessible options that can be utilized at any table. I for one welcome the addition and hopeful to see maybe one more Rare Class within PF2s lifespan.

I'm also certain that whatever Aventure Path or Modules that come out during the year War of Immortals comes out will offer plenty of narrative to include the Class in it. Premade adventures aren't everyone's cup of tea though.

Applied_People wrote:

I'd rather have been handed a class that everyone can play without all that baggage.

I mean, what about a divine martial who gives themselves self buffs is too much baggage to be playable? Because at its core that's what the class is as described.

You are making my point for me. Stripped of the lore / flavor (as you've just done), the class is what you describe...a divine martial with self buffs. This is something anyone can play in virtually any campaign or adventure.

So, I'm saying I would have preferred lore/flavor that didn't make it rare and so precious (Dead god stuff fell on me, and now I'm the special-est! Sqweeee!)

And if you remove all the flavor of Rage from Barbarian you have a Fighter with a stopwatch.

Divine Martial with self buffs (Champion) and Divine Martial with self buffs (Exampler) are drastically different in feel, execution, and play, to the point that trying to reduce them down to simply "divine martial with self buffs" is utterly meaningless and inaccurate.

And... you can reflavor things. They don't even have to be divine. All you really need for a reflvoring of the Exemplar to work is that there's some sort of energy source that they send ricocheting aroudn in their system to power various upgrades.

Like... you could run that off of Aberrant warping easy. You get some shard of eldritch energy that empowers but does not consume, and it's slowly mutating you as you use it. The more mutated you get, the more adapted you get to the power it provides, and the more you can leverage it. The Icons are places in yourself that have adjusted to its power enough to temporarily hold it in place, empower you with its glow, and fire it off, before drawing it back in again.

If you don't like the mechanics, then say no. If you like the mechanics but don't like the flavor, then reflavor.

Squiggit wrote:

Applied_People wrote:

I'd rather have been handed a class that everyone can play without all that baggage.

I mean, what about a divine martial who gives themselves self buffs is too much baggage to be playable? Because at its core that's what the class is as described.

You are making my point for me. Stripped of the lore / flavor (as you've just done), the class is what you describe...a divine martial with self buffs. This is something anyone can play in virtually any campaign or adventure.

So, I'm saying I would have preferred lore/flavor that didn't make it rare and so precious (Dead god stuff fell on me, and now I'm the special-est! Sqweeee!)

The Rare tag was put for people who have trouble with the flavor. Not for people who enjoy it.

And those are not doomed to be jerks of the highest order either. That is a player's thing

Applied_People wrote:

Not thrilled with the Exemplar flavor and rare tag. Rare means less access to the class. And the flavor means it needs to be handled a bit by GM and player to make sure it "plays nice" with the other players and the story being collectively told.

I think it's rare mostly because it involves being splattered by the metaphysical viscera of a newly-bisected deity, and there's only so many globs of god-stuff to go around. It's rare because it's a "right place, right time" thing for a specific event that's unlikely to happen again or at least frequently.

It's rare in the sense that if you go back 100 years there are precisely 0 people with this class, and if you go forward 1000 years there might again be 0 people with this class.

Actually, I think it's akin to PF1 Mythic origin. Being splattered by god-stuff is one way, but I hope not the only one.

After all we have had hero-gods in the setting for a long long time.

That iconic is WIDE. Dudes a brick house, lol. I like it.

War of Immortals: in which a generation of Young Paizonians embattle a legion of Elder Quasi-Gygaxians and their horde of Infernal Barristers for the Right to Drink from the Fountain of Intellectual Property!

Does anyone know what time today the play test is supposed to start?

10 AM PST time.

In 5 hours and 33 minutes unless I am mistaken.

So, I'm saying I would have preferred lore/flavor that didn't make it rare and so precious (Dead god stuff fell on me, and now I'm the special-est! Sqweeee!)

The rare tag issue I have no opinion about, since that's more of an organized play issue than a home table issue. But hero stories go hand in hand with hubris stories. So just because in-character Alice thinks she's the 'mythic hero of our story', doesn't mean the other characters have to see it that way or be played with any deference to her. It's perfectly consistent with hero/hubris stories to pop their ego balloon every once in a while. "Sure you're the Daughter Of Earth And Sky Before Which All Elements Bow, Alice. Now get out of the way so the real professional can open the door."

I liked everything I heard in the stream. Good job Paizo for bringing us two new and somewhat unique classes. Looking forward to them.

This was very enjoyable to watch (especially at 9am in the morning while getting ready for work. Good energy for the rest of the day!). From the sound of things, I think there's a significant amount of fun to be had in playing an Exemplar who is a little less than enthusiastic about their burgeoning heroic reputation. And especially the growing list of epithets.

You got splattered with god juice, or caught in the explosion of a divine relic, or whatever else. But using your randomly obtained supernatural talents to help people doesn't mean you want to be a legend. You could just be doing your best to do right by people in whatever way you can, and you can't help the fact that the stories about you are getting a little wild. Even if they are kinda true.

It gets harder and harder to focus on just helping out your local community when you've got a huge heaping of expectations - and renown you didn't ask for - on your plate. Even more so if folks are going around spreading your tale without your input. There's always more individuals, organizations, and local governments reaching out to you for help. Bigger numbers of people you could be helping as your power grows. And its still fulfilling to be doing right by those in need, but the scale of things is getting a bit beyond what you were aiming for. That's a lot of pressure! And all of it from a completely random divine accident.

If the immortality feat mentioned in the stream is like the similar ones other classes have, in that its optional and not a base class feature at high levels; the Exemplar can still very much be played like any other empowered but fundamentally mortal character. Still several more hours 'til the playtest is out, so maybe I'm wrong on that! But either way, I think the mechanical and thematic elements of this class can be applied in much broader ways than many people are assuming. And there's a whole bunch of different stories that can be told involving them, rather than just straight up real world mythology hero stuff (not that those can be any less interesting than the alternatives).

The Rare tag seems to be here because, in-fiction, Exemplars literally just happened. And in very specific circumstances at that. This method of expressing divine power could end up spreading around Golarion through family lines (or other means) by the time of a theoretical PF3e. It doesn't have to limit characterization, playstyle, or narrative. There's a lot of interesting stuff to work with here!

Here's hoping Exemplar will be playable in PFS.

Just realized that Exemplar is another kind of Occult martial after we got the Thaumaturge.

Occult is the magic of stories.

The Thaumaturge is all about the stories they know or make up about others.

The Exemplar seems to be all about their own story.

Here's hoping Exemplar will be playable in PFS.

PFS usually accept playtest classes during the playtest period.

Just realized that Exemplar is another kind of Occult martial after we got the Thaumaturge.

Occult is the magic of stories.

The Thaumaturge is all about the stories they know or make up about others.

The Exemplar seems to be all about their own story.

Isn't both Exemplar and Animist divine based?

10 AM PST time.

PDT. The U.S., or most of it, is currently in Daylight Savings Time.

The Raven Black wrote:

Here's hoping Exemplar will be playable in PFS.

PFS usually accept playtest classes during the playtest period.

The Raven Black wrote:

Just realized that Exemplar is another kind of Occult martial after we got the Thaumaturge.

Occult is the magic of stories.

The Thaumaturge is all about the stories they know or make up about others.

The Exemplar seems to be all about their own story.

Isn't both Exemplar and Animist divine based?

The description says divine. The actual lore is saying occult with mythic powers.

The description says divine. The actual lore is saying occult with mythic powers.

Well... honestly, I have difficulty describing "spattered with godstuff" as anything other than a divine powersource.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

It's rare in the sense that if you go back 100 years there are precisely 0 people with this class, and if you go forward 1000 years there might again be 0 people with this class.

The first? Yes. The second?

Well, we have Exemplars now. The impression I get is that their godspark is something that grows with them. Even if they don't make it to immortal, an Exemplar dying might just spread it around that much more.

...or you could be right.

Don't forget the old Golarian saying: you are what you eat.

Don't forget the old Golarian saying: you are what you eat.

I identify as a level 0 common 4sp/week Light bulk ration.

The Raven Black wrote:

Here's hoping Exemplar will be playable in PFS.

PFS usually accept playtest classes during the playtest period.

I was wondering about the final version of the class actually.