Okay, so I looking through this, and I wanted to check what Class DC was.

And Class DC is equal to 10, plus the Proficiency bonus, plus the class's key ability to score.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=102

If that is the case, then you can use Dexterity instead of Charisma.

Maybe the Occultist could be like the champion. No traditional spell list, but instead, a huge focus on focus spells, and maybe a quick way to gain focus back.

With the kineticist might have a powerful cantrip and then focus spells as well. But, can reduce the cost of focus spells by using actions.

What about a radiant Eidolon?

Oh yeah, a different phantom every day, and two a day starting at 6th level.

There is the question of what happens when you go to sleep though.

For the Priest if the Fallen, why are you only limited to 6 Phantoms? I thought there were an unlimited number of phantoms to call on.
It seems there are countless heroes to call on.

Also, note that for channel, you seem to limited to you charisma modifier for use (instead of 3 + charisma modifier) and you are at least 2 levels behind any cleric. Still, really good if you want to go with the Fractured Mind on top of the Fallen Priest.

I guess the Elemental Ally archetype is the opposite of what you are looking for?

Does the Chronicler of Worlds work?

Huh....TIL the osiron god Sobek, god of crocodiles doesn't offer the crocodile domain.

It is a druid domain. I don't think any gods offer any animal domains.

Although, I think any nature good can offer one of the druid domains. Is that right?

If so, Sobek cleric with both Saurion and Crocodile domains! A familiar and a animal companion.

Squiggit wrote:

For me one of the big ones that stands out is the Vigilante. I see a lot of "batman doesn't belong in D&D" and not enough appreciation of a full bab martial with good skill points and lots of nice secondary options which is generally really fun to mess around with.

I had thought that the Magical Child archetype of the Vigilante would be a terrible choice at my table for Hell's Rebels, especially since it has a bad spell list where several spells on the Unchained Summoner list can't even be used by her. But it's held up very well for our Sailor Moon--dex to melee damage, pit spells, great skills, and the improved familiar makes for a very flexible character. And she's not even gotten to the 9th level ability to switch between several familiars.

Have you thought about grabbing Changling Familiar at 9th level? It allows you familiar to shift into a small or mediun creature. If you have an outsider familiar, it means access to all Martial weapons and it would be easier to intimate enemies as a medium size creature.

Obviously,a true librarian would need to be a druid or some other class that can shape shift into an orangutan. Because there is only one true Librarian.

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Librarian

In either case, a Wizard of some sort is necessary.

No magic, but you want some assistance in Battle.

The Cavalier has some interesting options that allow you to make use of your mount and charisma more offensively.

The Beast Rider gives you a wolf for an option, and later other creatures.

The Ghost Rider just is a cool theme.

And for even more wildness, the Saurian Rider. It does away with Lances and stuff and gives you a huge dinosaur.

Oh, and if your friend is a cleric, the Saurian Domain gives some cool perks.

9th level spells though. It's hard to get 9th level spells on a character that isn't hurting for skill points, and can be an effective party face. I think it's lame that the illusion and enchantment spells take one level higher though.

With low BAB, wild shape would probably be reserved for scouting or party travel, rather then combat. Even if you had full wildshape, you probably couldn't use it effectively, since the hit to BAB.

It's a weird archetype. Probably best for the Gnome or Halfling Druid.

Yes, you lose a feat you decide to get that feat and I assume that every sorcerer, Skald, Bard, and Summer suffer in the exact same way.

With the 6 skill points, sorcerer BAB, and light armor though, you can't play as a regular Druid any more. You aren't going where near the front lines, but now you can be the party face, and back up healer and skill monkey (with a bit of shape shifting for good measure). So, you really can save a lot of feats by avoiding close combat.

And, now that you aren't dumping charisma, you are now an expert at handling animal, opening more options for your animal companion.

But, you aren't exactly going to take a Fey Speaker unless your party needs a Face though, are you? If that is the case,going from Wisdom to Charisma is a huge net positive.

You have got all the Charisma skills you need built in. You can even grab Eldritch Heritage or Draconic Heritage for more fun. And, now that you aren't dumping charisma, you are now an expert at handling animal, opening more options for your animal companion.

You are like a super skilled sylan sorcerer with a better animal companion, better saves, and free toughness. And worse spells.

Have you thought of using the Bloodragers and Bloodrider archetype instead. I only bring it up because the bonus to Charisma makes the Bloodrager slightly more attractive to Halflings.

Wouldn't the Animal Domain work? Just take the companion feat along with it.

deuxhero wrote:

@Wonderstell

What does feyspeaker have to do with intelligence?

Charisma is the obvious dump stat for every character whose class doesn't force them to invest in it. By making the Druid a Cha-based caster you'll have to compensate somewhere else. In this case, Intelligence will take a hit.

20 PB, caster (wis-based)
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16+2, Cha 7

20 PB, caster (cha-based)
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16+2

deuxhero wrote:

The druid list normally has a mere EIGHT illusions and less than 15 enchantments that aren't animal specific. These two areas are absolutely weak points of druids, and even with the level penalty a lot of the spells you can cherry pick are still pretty good a level higher (just for starters, Mirror Image on an animal companion is a pretty solid defensive buff). Either these extra spells or the extra skill (points) alone would up the versatility,

The extra spells definitely ups the versatility. But the slowed/restricted Wild Shape, loss of spontaneous casting, and lowered BAB/AC hurts the versatility.

Crazy, why not just take Steadfast Personality instead? Just drop Wisdom to 10, and boost Intelligence to 10, and you are done. Now, at the cost of a single feat, you have bonus skills. Heck, you could take an 8 on wisdom, and boost Intelligence to 12. The Will save will suffer a little bit, but your charisma should more then make up for it.

Spiritualist, so that you can have an in built sous chef.

Did anyone check out the Changeling Familiar feat? Suddenly, you have a familiar that can be a buddy, and if it's an outsider, use weapons!

You could make the argument that multiple people get in each other's way. 6 people trying to spot the Kobold? That's six people breathing, walking, talking, casting shadows, distracting each other. Heck, maybe the people in front are blocking the line of site of the people behind.

But the bottomline is that multiple skill checks fall in the same basic problems that the social sciences fall into. If you test something enough times eventually (about 5% of the time) you will get a false positive.

Perhaps, to make it more interesting, failures should have consequences. Nothing major, just small things that can go wrong.

The problem with the fey speaker might be the lack of martial weapon proficiencies and the fact that it uses the wizards BAB.

It felt like the OP was looking for something that was a bit more weapons focused, since he was looking at the Ranger or Hunter classes to begin with.

I wonder if it's worth it? Im assuming the final familiar form was an outsider, you have a small or medium sized henchmen with +2 dexterity or strength, the ability to use Martial weapons. Is it that much better than the familiars base form?

I guess, if you picked up two levels of Eldritch Fighter, your familiar has access to heavy armor, but than you lose 2 points of damage resistance, and some of the Vigilante stuff you would get later on (that it can use as well) and that is probably the best reason to take a magical child, so that you can surprise opponents twice in combat. And intimidate them twice later on.

The Occultist just seems like a good chassis for what you indicted. She can be brash, impulsive and smart. And, depending on how you feel about it, she could go elf for some extra natury vibes.

If the animal companion isn't too important, might I suggest the Occultist with the Geomancer Archetype (or naturalist archetype)

It gets the skills you desire, it's intelligence based instead of wisdom based. And you have cool nature themed abilities.

I take it that Hunter Archetype is out? The urban or court one?

Bonded Armor always makes me think of an Occultist with the Battle Host archetype. Just start with a set of awesome armor, and all your abilities rely on it to some extent.

By taking the evocation School, you can even blast rays out of it if you want.

Have you thought about the Occultist? There is a handy Archetype that might fit your needs.

At 9th level, dont all the familiar forms get the shape change universal rule for the Magical Child?

Also, if I take. Robin as my Familiar, does this mean I can literally turn my Robin into Robin, my side kick?

Edit - I see, they only get the shape change ability in it's 4 vigilante forms.

So at 9th level
1st Civilian - regular familiar- no shape change
Vigilante regular familiar - shape change
Vigilante 3rd level improved familiar - shape change
Vigilante 5th level improved familiar - shape change
Vigilante 7th level improved familiar - shape change.

And, if any of your forms are outsiders, I guess they get Simple and Martial weapons proficiencies?
In addition to the damage resistance, and natural armor and improved intelligence that all familiars get?

By the way, if it works off the universal shape change rules, does that mean it retains the same stats as before, except maybe a +2 strength or +2 dexterity? You could have a medium sized Sprite with 5 strength?

I guess that would mean that the following feats are also out - Evolved Familiar, Celestial Servant, Spark of the Uncanny, Spirits Gift and Unfettered Familiar.

But, I think we are safe to say that the Magical Child has the Familiar Calls feature.

"Animal Guide (Ex): A magical child starts play with a magical spirit guide in the form of a familiar, using her vigilante level as her effective wizard level. The familiar also has a social identity as a seemingly normal animal, though vigilantes with outlandish familiars might still need to hide the familiar."

Out of curiosity, how do you define "Familiar Class Feature"? The wizards don't get one, they get an Arcane Bond, that can select a familiar. The Witch gets the Witch's Familiar. The Shaman gets the Spirit Guide. Familiar bond feat gives you a familiar, as the wizard arcane bond class feature.

Sorry for the resurrection, but does the magical child automatically qualify for the Changling Familiar feat at 9th level? It might be cool, since all outsiders have Martial weapons profiency, and use your base attack. Just need to get an outsider familiar with weapon finesse, and I think you are good to go!

It seems like a good fit, even if it's only a few rounds per day.

So, for priest of the fallen, it looks like you can completely create a new phantom from scratch, every time you summon a new phantom. That means new emotion, new skills, new attributes and new feats. Is that correct?

That seems to be insanely flexibily if you have 24 hours.

I would love a full BAB alchemist class. Maybe 4/9 alchemy. We've got Ranger, Paladins, Bloodragers. Something with alchemy and warfare would be cool.

Also, I would love a reverse Magnus. A Magnus works by using spells to beef up melee attacks, but having a class that could use attacks to make an enemy vulnerable to future spells would be cool. Something to make a 6/9 dc keep up with straight casters.

One nice thing about stacking the two - straight charisma for Channeling Energy. You are two levels behind, but I wonder if it's worth it to get some fears for that? Bless Equipment or Purify Channel. Sure, a but less powerful then a cleric, but more uses.

Sadly, no shared conscious with the Priest of the Fallen, so no emotional conduit.

Doesn't the investigator's abilities scale up? Yeah, the Studied Combat adds half his level as a bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls and studied strike does as well.

I understand how it's supposed to work, but it still feels odd, not mechanically, but visually.

Spell Combat makes sense because you are using your offhand to cast and touch the combat, but combining it with Spell Strike makes it seem like the Magus gets a form of Flurry of Blows. Suddenly, s/he can strike twice his/her main hand, something that Fighters can't do until 2nd level.

I guess the Monk can do it, but only with a limited number of weapons and then it's an argument about whether he is attacking with is main hand or something else.

The ability is triggered while casting his spell though. Somehow, casting a spell allows him to strike twice and nothing in the text explains it, thematically (again, I'm not arguing the mechanics).

Again, Spell Combat makes sense - you are casting a spell while fighting, and during it, you can release your spell as part of the attack with your hand that is isn't being used for anything else.

Spellstrike makes sense - you can cast your touch-based spell through your weapon.

It's the combination - that someone you can attack twice with your main hand while casting a spell, that doesn't make sense to me. How is the Magus doing it, and why is this act limited to when he casts a spell. Can he fake casting a spell, and get the bonus attack? If not, why not?

There is the Gunslinger Fire Brand. It goes the opposite way though.

So, I guess a Psychic can't grab sorcerer spells just because there is of the Psychic Bloodline.

And Druids can't grab spells from the Domain list.

I would agree with others. You can add psychic spells to your sorcerer list, because, with the psychic bloodline, you case Psychic Spells, not Arcane spells, but since they are all psychic Spells, you can't add them to your Wizard, because wizards still cast Arcane Spells.

Now, I wonder, do bloodline spells (at least those that are still for Arcane Casters), and Patron Spells all count as Arcane spells for this racial trait?

And do Domain Spells count as Divine Spells for this racial trait?

Also, what about odd archetypes that change the caster types, but not the spell list itself?

I think you might be able to find what you are looking for without resorting to wild theories.

And millions of heroes just hanging out. Man, that is a lot of figments to handle.

Man, it's like the opposite of Crazy Jane from Doom Patrol.

Cool.

Wait, would that mean the fallen heroes are just figments of the Fractured Mind's mind?

Can you stack these two archetypes? It seems like, if these two do stack, you can change your emotional focus ever 24 hours, and at the same time, change the emotional powers that come with it.

That seems sort of cool

Sadly, it doesn't stack with the fractured mind.

It looks like there are two new archetypes to added to the list.

Dwarven Scholar, a bard Archetype for dwarves that uses wisdom for spontaneous spell casting.

Chronicler of Worlds, a bard archetype that uses intelligence for spontaneous spell casting.

You u forgot Occultist.

Oh, this sounds like fun.

I think a lot of people in the past suggested Bard, which has some appeal, but if we want to think outside the box, how about the Spiritualist or Occultist spell list to give it a touch of the other worldly aspect of it all.

I have always wanted to see if a Half-Orc Battlehost Occultists with a double axe would work. You can dump Dexterity by taking Artful Dodge.

Artful Dodge gives the occultists and the investigator a chance at TWF without dipping too much into dexterity.

The Investigor, (especially the psychic detective) can really benefit from it, since their abilities give a set bonus to all attacks.

Improved familiar's don't grant any special abilities to their masters.

May I suggest Edritch Fighter instead? You still get the familiar, but now you get a few other items as well, including +1 BAB and all martial weapons.

The question is, do you take the Battlehost as the Occultist Archetype? The battlehost gives you a lot of feats to play with, which helps to Double Axe build, but you lose some of implements and implement powers, which is why you want a high intelligence to begin with.

I've always liked the Artful Dodger for a Half Orc Occultist. The high Intelligence is helpful for the Occultist Abilities, plus, he doesn't need his hands free to cast spells while wielding the double axe. And transmutation has a few good abilities for your weapon.