Best Single-Class Red Mage Approximation?


Advice


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Hello all. I'm looking to help a new player create something like Final Fantasy's version of a Red Mage; a sword-and-sorcery jack-of-all-trades. The challenge is to do it using only a single class, using Paizo-published Materials, without reskinning/reflavoring abilties.

Before I start, let me just get some stuff out of the way, because I know these forums!

- Yes, we know there's a Final Fantasy D20 system with a Red Mage Class. It's pretty good!
- Yes, we know that this could be better achieved with multi-classing.
- Yes, we know there's myriad third-party options that can emulate such a thing.
- Yes, we know you can just ask the GM for something to help fit the concept.

With that said, this is more of a thought-exercise and brainstorm, than a restriction on what can be played. The GM is awesome, and is fine with pretty much anything brought to the table, even if its tweaked or reflavored. We had certain qualifications as to what we consider a good replication of the Red Mage:

1) Decent Melee Weapon-based Proficiencies/Abilities/Features
2) Ability to cast Elemental Damage Spells, preferably earlier on in levels
3) Ability to cast Healing Spells

So far we have a few front-runners:

- Battle Shaman: The Shaman spell list gives access to requirements 2 and 3, but has very little to help with 1. We'd need to spend a good number of feats to get their melee skills to a good level, and that would probably just be leaning on the staple feats.

- Puppetmaster Magus: Puppetmaster Magus gets access to the Bard spell list, which puts most of the Cure X Wounds and some of the Remove X spells on their spell list. As a magus, elemental damage is a part of the kit, but the tradeouts to Spell Combat, Spellstrike, and Arcane Pool lower its normal weapon abilities.

- Arcane Duelist Bard: The Arcane Duelist gets all sorts of cool weapon abilities and feats to not only buff himself, but also his allies. The Bard spell list doesn't have many elemental damage spells, especially early on.

- Battle Oracle: I mean, the're good at what they do, and they do get some some great abilities. They don't get many elemental-damage spells until later, though.

Any thoughts?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

You u forgot Occultist.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Legowarrior wrote:
You u forgot Occultist.

Oh yeah. I did forget about them! A Evocation/Transmutation/Conjuration Occultist would do nicely. It would be a little low on spell variety to start, but could do well.

Dark Archive

A different sort of approach, but a Kineticist with the Kinetic Healer talent could work out, and eventually let you spam the elemental side of things all day.

Warpriest, Druid, and Inquisitor would also work with proper spell/domain choice, especially if you roll a Samsaran and get to mix up the spell lists a bit.

Honestly, this concept is something you can pull off with most of the 3/4 BAB claster classes.


I always figured the red mage was a bard. They are an arcane spell caster but get healing spells, so basically getting both "black" and "white" magic.

They are proficient with simple weapons and a handful of iconic martial weapons and they get a 3/4 BAB so they're not completely screwed going into melee (at least no more than a cleric is).

Heck, they are even specifically supposed to be the "jack of all trades" and get class abilities to back that.

Also, you can take archetypes like Detective, Archaeologist, Negotiator or Studious Librarian to color the character as something other then the stereotypical lute wielding performer.

Edit: I was surprised to not see bard in your initial post, but now I see that it is. Studious librarian gets limited access to whatever spells you want and Voice of the Wild gives you a selection of Ranger/Druid spells that can be added, many of which are elemental type spells.


I think Arcane Duelist Bard is probably closest.

I would add Hunter as a possible option, although the Animal Companion isn't typical.


I played a lot of ffxi and bard has very little in common with red mage. I think closest is occultist. Next would be oracle - probably fire mystery.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Hexcrafter Magus and occultist work


Shaman is exactly what you are looking for.

3/4th BAB
4+Int Skills
Full casting
Can access a bunch of different lists
No silly restrictions


Have you looked at the "Arcanist"? They have an archetype "Blade Adept"

PFS Legal Blade Adept
Source Advanced Class Guide pg. 76 (Amazon)
A small number of arcanists learn to use blades as part of their spellcasting and in combat. While these blade adepts are not as capable with a sword as a true master duelist, their combination of swordplay and arcane power makes them quite deadly.

Sword Bond (Su): At 1st level, a blade adept develops a bond with a blade and infuses it with arcane power. This ability works like a wizard’s arcane bond ability save that the blade adept must bond to a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon. Additionally, the blade adept gains proficiency with the weapon if it is a simple or martial weapon. This ability replaces the arcanist exploits gained at 1st and 9th levels.

Sentient Sword (Su): At 3rd level, the blade adept’s bonded sword becomes a powerful, sentient black blade. The blade advances as a black blade (Ultimate Magic 47) using the blade adept’s class level in place of the magus’s class level and points from her arcane reservoir in place of the magus’s arcane pool. A blade adept with this class feature cannot have a familiar of any kind, even from another class. This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

Adept Exploits: A blade adept can select from the following additional exploits.

Eldritch Blade: A blade adept with this exploit uses her caster level instead of her class level for the purpose of advancing her bonded sword’s powers.

Magus Arcana: A blade adept can select any of the following magus arcana, using her arcane reservoir in place of the magus’s arcane pool: arcane accuracy, close range, critical strike, dispelling strike, and hasted assault. The blade adept treats her arcanist level as her magus level when determining the effects of magus arcana and when specific arcana are available. A blade adept can take this exploit multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different magus arcana.

Spell Strike (Su): The blade adept can deliver touch spells with her bonded weapon. This works as the magus ability of the same name.

Student of the Blade (Ex): A blade adept can choose from any of the following bonus feats: Arcane Strike, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus (in the weapon she is bonded to). This exploit can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different feat.

Weapon Specialization (Ex): The arcanist gains Weapon Specialization with her chosen weapon as a bonus feat. The blade adept does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat, but must have the Weapon Focus feat with her chosen weapon to select this exploit. The arcanist must be at least 5th level to select this exploit.


nicholas storm wrote:
I played a lot of ffxi and bard has very little in common with red mage. I think closest is occultist. Next would be oracle - probably fire mystery.

I played a lot of final fantasy 1 and bard is exactly what a red mage is


Well he mentions elemental damage spells, which a bard has none of (except for the flamedancer archetype).


Then I'd suggest the arrowsong minstrel.

As they can pick spells of the wizard evocation school.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Cavall wrote:
nicholas storm wrote:
I played a lot of ffxi and bard has very little in common with red mage. I think closest is occultist. Next would be oracle - probably fire mystery.

I played a lot of final fantasy 1 and bard is exactly what a red mage is

I mean just look at his hat. No one but a bard has that much style.


Exactly!!!


Yeah, go with Arcane Duelist Bard. You can dip 1 in Swashbuckler to make it even more viable for melee combat, but everything you're looking for is still there even if you don't.

Plus, I completely agree with Saffron Marvelous. No one but a Bard could pull off the hat :)

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Magician archtype bard. You get white magic cure spells, black magic spells off the wizard list, and the standard red mage stuff.


Harley Quinn X wrote:

Hello all. I'm looking to help a new player create something like Final Fantasy's version of a Red Mage; a sword-and-sorcery jack-of-all-trades. The challenge is to do it using only a single class, using Paizo-published Materials, without reskinning/reflavoring abilties.

Before I start, let me just get some stuff out of the way, because I know these forums!

- Yes, we know there's a Final Fantasy D20 system with a Red Mage Class. It's pretty good!
- Yes, we know that this could be better achieved with multi-classing.
- Yes, we know there's myriad third-party options that can emulate such a thing.
- Yes, we know you can just ask the GM for something to help fit the concept.

With that said, this is more of a thought-exercise and brainstorm, than a restriction on what can be played. The GM is awesome, and is fine with pretty much anything brought to the table, even if its tweaked or reflavored. We had certain qualifications as to what we consider a good replication of the Red Mage:

1) Decent Melee Weapon-based Proficiencies/Abilities/Features
2) Ability to cast Elemental Damage Spells, preferably earlier on in levels
3) Ability to cast Healing Spells

So far we have a few front-runners:

- Battle Shaman: The Shaman spell list gives access to requirements 2 and 3, but has very little to help with 1. We'd need to spend a good number of feats to get their melee skills to a good level, and that would probably just be leaning on the staple feats.

- Puppetmaster Magus: Puppetmaster Magus gets access to the Bard spell list, which puts most of the Cure X Wounds and some of the Remove X spells on their spell list. As a magus, elemental damage is a part of the kit, but the tradeouts to Spell Combat, Spellstrike, and Arcane Pool lower its normal weapon abilities.

- Arcane Duelist Bard: The Arcane Duelist gets all sorts of cool weapon abilities and feats to not only buff himself, but also his allies. The Bard spell list doesn't have many elemental damage spells, especially early on.

-...

The only true answer actually fits the Personification the Red Mage avatars.....

Multiclass traditional fighter/rogue or bard taking dips in cleric and wizard....
You get the staggered saves to average, HD the same, the ability to wear armor (yes spell failure exists outside of min/max) and mentally forego the need to see character development in a linear manner.

The generic quality of the build allows for a base Melee(fighter) Finesse(rogue) or support magic(bard) specialist as well as let you choose what feats streamline you, hopefully only a little, as the Red Mage shines wherever he wants, not where he s wanted.


Or Skald! That is even more 1) than the arcane duelist bard. But magician bard is also good if he/she is higher levels. Although Spell Kenning also serves a similar role.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've never looked at Skald, I might have to. It seems an interesting class.


Harley Quinn X wrote:
Legowarrior wrote:
You u forgot Occultist.
Oh yeah. I did forget about them! A Evocation/Transmutation/Conjuration Occultist would do nicely. It would be a little low on spell variety to start, but could do well.

For more selection at low levels consider a Silksworn Ocultist. By 2nd level they have five Implement Schools. They suffer a bit on the combat side due to weapon and armor restrictions, but a longspear reach build and spells like Mage Armor or Magic Vestment help.

For a more elemental theme there is the Sha'ir Occultist and to a lesser extent the Geomancer Occultist. If you decide to try a Sha'ir you might find my Jin statblocks and Elemental School spell list useful. The spell lists include the updates from Planes of Power.

As for healing, Occultists get a variety of Spells and Focus Powers that can be used for healing and status removal/suppression. Panoplies and archetypes like Reliquarian or Haunt Collector can add more options. A partial list of options is below.

--------------------------

Healing Breakdown:

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 1ST LEVEL

Occult Skill Unlocks
-Faith Healing (Heal Skill): Suppress, suspend, or remove ability damage, curses, diseases, or poison.
-Read Aura (Perception Skill): Determine whether a creature is wounded, poisoned, diseased, confused, disabled, dying, nauseated, panicked, staggered, stunned, or unconscious.

Level 0 Spells
-Detect Poison (Divination Implement)
-Stabilize (Conjuration Implement)

Level 1 Spells
-Cure Light Wounds (Conjuration Implement)
-Diagnose Disease (Divination Implement): Can be used to detect a number of conditions

Reliquarian Domain Spells
-Cure Light Wounds (Healing Domain Spell)
-Diagnose Disease (Healing Domain, Medicine Subdomain Spell): Can be used to detect a number of conditions
-Remove Fear (Liberation Domain Spell)

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 2ND LEVEL (Usually)

Haunt Collector
-Possessed Possessions (Hierophant Spirit): Gives your healing spells and abilities +2 points of healing per target.

Panoply (Saint’s Holy Regalia)
-Font of Healing (Resonant Power): Adds points of healing to ‘Cure’ spells.
-Restoring Touch (Base Focus Power): Cures temporary ability damage and at higher levels cures permanent ability damage.
-Martyr’s Benediction (Focus Power): Restores hit points to your allies.

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 3RD LEVEL

Focus Powers
-Flesh Mend (Conjuration Implement): gives you a way to heal hit points using Mental Focus instead of using up spell slots.

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 4TH LEVEL

Level 2 Spells
-Calm Emotions (Enchantment Implement): Can be used to suppress fear conditions and confusion
-Cure Moderate Wounds (Conjuration Implement)
-Delay Poison (Conjuration Implement)
-Status (Divination Implement): Can be used to detect a number of conditions

Reliquarian Domain Spells
-Cure Moderate Wounds (Reliquarian Archetype - Healing Domain Spell)
-Placebo Effect (Healing Domain, Medicine Subdomain Spell)
-Remove Disease (Healing Domain, Restoration Subdomain Spell)
-Remove Paralysis (Reliquarian Archetype - Liberation Domain Spell)

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 5TH LEVEL

Focus Powers
-Purge Corruption (Conjuration Implement): Duplicates the effects of the Neutralize Poison and Remove Disease spells. It's really valuable since neither of those spells is on your list.

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 7TH LEVEL

Level 3 Spells
-Age Resistance, Lesser (Transmutation Implement): Can suppress the negative effects of age
-Cure Serious Wounds (Conjuration Implement)
-Dispel Magic (Abjuration Implement): Can end spells which place conditions on you or your allies
-Gentle Repose (Necromancy Implement): Can help preserve your fallen comrades until a better healer is available
-Symbol of Healing (Conjuration Implement)

Reliquarian Domain Spells
-Cure Serious Wounds (Reliquarian Archetype - Healing Domain Spell)
-Remove Curse (Reliquarian Archetype - Liberation Domain Spell)

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 10TH LEVEL

Level 4 Spells
-Age Resistance (Transmutation Implement): Can suppress the negative effects of age
-Break Enchantment (Abjuration Implement): Can remove enchantments, transmutations, and curses
-Cure Critical Wounds (Conjuration Implement)
-Death Ward (Necromancy Implement): Can temporarily remove the penalties from negative levels
-Freedom of Movement (Abjuration Implement): Can remove paralysis, grappled, and the like


Reliquarian Domain Spells
-Cure Critical Wounds (Reliquarian Archetype - Healing Domain Spell)
-Freedom of Movement (Reliquarian Archetype - Liberation Domain Spell): Can remove paralysis, grappled, and the like
-Neutralize Poison (Healing Domain, Restoration Subdomain Spell)

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 13TH LEVEL

Level 5 Spells
-Cure Light Wounds, Mass (Conjuration Implement)
-Dispel Magic, Greater (Abjuration Implement): Can end spells which place conditions on you or your allies
-Temporary Resurrection (Necromancy Implement): Can help preserve your fallen comrades until a better healer is available

Reliquarian Domain Spells
-Break Enchantment (Reliquarian Archetype - Liberation Domain Spell)
-Break Enchantment (Healing Domain, Restoration Subdomain Spell)
-Breath of Life (Reliquarian Archetype - Healing Domain Spell)
-Raise Dead (Healing Domain, Resurrection Subdomain Spell)

--------------------------

AVAILABLE AT 16TH LEVEL

Level 6 Spells
-Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (Conjuration Implement)
-Heal (Conjuration Implement): Can remove ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, sickened, and stunned

Reliquarian Domain Spells
-Dispel Magic, Greater (Reliquarian Archetype - Liberation Domain Spell): Can end spells which place conditions on you or your allies
-Heal (Reliquarian Archetype - Healing Domain Spell): Can remove ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, sickened, and stunned


Bards can't do elemental damage. Master of many trades bards may be, but evocation is not one of them.

I'll second Shaman. The favored class bonus for humans is pretty swell too, it lets you steal spells off of the cleric list. You can divine favor and Fate's Favored with the best of them, and if the flames spirit isn't black magic enough for you, Lore is a great way to cherry pick spells off of the sorcerer/wizard spell list.


Honestly.. occultist.

i'd even consider a talisman occultist myself. Thoguh that only fits a rare case of FF Red Mages.

but i also don'tk now enough about shamens to honestly say anything off that one.

-------------

On the random "huh" side.
The hair using Witch archetype can do fairly decently for this I think.
not the best but it is interesting

Edit:
Ok the silkworn occultist fits pretty well.
AC can hurt but also feels kinda like them.
Might need to employ mage armour. and enchanting normal clothing for armour, even if they have no base ac


Harley Quinn X wrote:

Hello all. I'm looking to help a new player create something like Final Fantasy's version of a Red Mage; a sword-and-sorcery jack-of-all-trades. The challenge is to do it using only a single class, using Paizo-published Materials, without reskinning/reflavoring abilties.

Before I start, let me just get some stuff out of the way, because I know these forums!

- Yes, we know there's a Final Fantasy D20 system with a Red Mage Class. It's pretty good!
- Yes, we know that this could be better achieved with multi-classing.
- Yes, we know there's myriad third-party options that can emulate such a thing.
- Yes, we know you can just ask the GM for something to help fit the concept.

With that said, this is more of a thought-exercise and brainstorm, than a restriction on what can be played. The GM is awesome, and is fine with pretty much anything brought to the table, even if its tweaked or reflavored. We had certain qualifications as to what we consider a good replication of the Red Mage:

1) Decent Melee Weapon-based Proficiencies/Abilities/Features
2) Ability to cast Elemental Damage Spells, preferably earlier on in levels
3) Ability to cast Healing Spells

So far we have a few front-runners:

- Battle Shaman: The Shaman spell list gives access to requirements 2 and 3, but has very little to help with 1. We'd need to spend a good number of feats to get their melee skills to a good level, and that would probably just be leaning on the staple feats.

- Puppetmaster Magus: Puppetmaster Magus gets access to the Bard spell list, which puts most of the Cure X Wounds and some of the Remove X spells on their spell list. As a magus, elemental damage is a part of the kit, but the tradeouts to Spell Combat, Spellstrike, and Arcane Pool lower its normal weapon abilities.

- Arcane Duelist Bard: The Arcane Duelist gets all sorts of cool weapon abilities and feats to not only buff himself, but also his allies. The Bard spell list doesn't have many elemental damage spells, especially early on.

-...

Sorry, didn't see the single class option.....here is this....

An Arcane Duelist with two Rings of spell Knowledge (fireball/lightning bolt etc) and can become a Eldritch Knight at level 7 without multi-classing.
Requirements
To qualify to become an Eldritch Knight, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Samsaran racial alternate trait would let a single classed Arcane Duelist Bard take more elemental damage spells.

Alternately, the Samsara racial alternate would let a Magus take the healing spells.

There's also a White Arcanist archetype for the Arcanist that can get healing spells onto the Sorc-Wizard list.

Or witch, which has lightning spells and healing but isn't super melee friendly and lacks fire spells.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

But an element patron witch can get the fire spells.


TheApapalypse wrote:

Sorry, didn't see the single class option.....here is this....

An Arcane Duelist with two Rings of spell Knowledge (fireball/lightning bolt etc) and can become a Eldritch Knight at level 7 without multi-classing.
Requirements
To qualify to become an Eldritch Knight, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Weapon Proficiency: Must be proficient with all martial weapons.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.

An Arcane Duelist can't become an Eldritch Knight without multiclassing.

Bards get a few Martial Weapon proficiencies, but not all.

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