Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


Television

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Norman Osborne wrote:
Was that the same actor who did actually flash her during her shame-walk? Or was it just the guy doing some tavern-boasting?

Even if they are different actors, that doesn't mean it can't be the same character... Important characters get recast all the time, why wouldn't it be the same for random NPCs in the background? Seriously, we had... what? 3~4 Gregor Cleganes so far? XD

If they did use the same actor, though... That'd be some nice attention to detail.


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That makes sense then. Cersei described his junk to Frankengregor, and he found the guy and mushed his face. Picked the wrong time for public urination.
I wouldn't doubt she could describe a man's penis adequately enough for this.


Lemmy wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Cersei sending him out with the orders to kill anyone speaking ill of me or my son makes absolutely perfect sense for her character.
It makes more sense for her to keep him around at all times. Specially after what she's been through.

She has a hundred lanister guards for that. She only needs Gregorstein if she needs to fight those guards.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Cersei sending him out with the orders to kill anyone speaking ill of me or my son makes absolutely perfect sense for her character.
It makes more sense for her to keep him around at all times. Specially after what she's been through.
She has a hundred lanister guards for that. She only needs Gregorstein if she needs to fight those guards.

There is no indication that she ever expected to have to fight Lannister guards before that one scene last episode. Or that she has the habit of sending Gregorstein around to kill whoever bad-mouthes her (which should be many, many people at this point).

Who knows... Maybe she sent Gregorstein to buy OJ and he heard the speech on his way back from the grocery store. Why would he wait 'til the guys was alone, though? He didn't care about subtlety in life, why would he care as a zombie?

Let's be honest here... The scene just wasn't very well thought. The writers wanted san excuse to show off Gregorstein's strength and didn't bother to come up with anything too elaborate.


Lemmy wrote:
There is no indication that she ever expected to have to fight Lannister guards before that one scene last episode.

In the books, her walk of shame ousted her from anything resembling power. Her cousin kevin had come in as the hand? Regent? And was her primary obstacle against doing anything.

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Or that she has the habit of sending Gregorstein around to kill whoever bad-mouthes her (which should be many, many people at this point).

So this can't be the scene that establishes that she does do that because....?

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Who knows... Maybe she sent Gregorstein to buy OJ and he heard the speech on his way back from the grocery store. Why would he wait 'til the guys was alone, though? He didn't care about subtlety in life, why would he care as a zombie?

Better at following orders now?

Quote:
Let's be honest here... The scene just wasn't very well thought. The writers wanted san excuse to show off Gregorstein's strength and didn't bother to come up with anything too elaborate.

If thats what it is i'm fine with it. I laughed for a whole minute at it.

It could also hint at something to come (remember many plots aren't just inching ahead of the books they're shooting past it)

It could also show that cersei hasn't changed a bit despite her humiliation... if anything it went and made her worse.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
In the books, her walk of shame ousted her from anything resembling power. Her cousin kevin had come in as the hand? Regent? And was her primary obstacle against doing anything.

In the books, yes. In the show, Kevan isn't even alive anymore, IIRC. Cersei has no reason to think she'd ever need to oppose the Lannister guard.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
So this can't be the scene that establishes that she does do that because....?

If might be, but IMO, if that's the case, it wasn't very well done... She doesn't mention or acknowledge anything like that at any point. The scene where they meet implies he's just arrived for his daily duty of protecting guarding her 24/7.

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
Who knows... Maybe she sent Gregorstein to buy OJ and he heard the speech on his way back from the grocery store. Why would he wait 'til the guys was alone, though? He didn't care about subtlety in life, why would he care as a zombie?
Better at following orders now?

And so... In order to be subtle, she sends the over-7-feet-tall undead abomination to kill people? And what... Did she predict that guy would be talking about her licking her lips?

How did he even hear that guy talking? He wasn't inside the tavern (or someone would have noticed the giant armored zombie sporting the lannister's guard uniform.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

It could also hint at something to come (remember many plots aren't just inching ahead of the books they're shooting past it)

It could also show that cersei hasn't changed a bit despite her humiliation... if anything it went and made her worse.

But unchanged or redeemed, Cersei never sent queen's guard to kill random peasants in taverns. She barely even thought ab


Lemmy wrote:
And so... In order to be subtle, she sends the over-7-feet-tall undead abomination to kill people?

If cersei were any good at subtle half the series wouldn't have happened. She barely bats an eye when he shows up covered in blood.

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And what... Did she predict that guy would be talking about her licking her lips?

I got the impression that wasn't the first time he told that story.

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How did he even hear that guy talking? He wasn't inside the tavern (or someone would have noticed the giant armored zombie sporting the lannister's guard uniform.

It was an outdoor tavern/beer garden and he wasn't exactly quiet.

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But unchanged or redeemed, Cersei never sent queen's guard to kill random peasants in taverns. She barely even thought ab

..before now. Now she does. So she's getting worse, more violent and more desperate.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

It was just there to reinforce the next scene where the guards where telling her no. Reinforcing how badass that Gregorstein is.


While it is possible that Ramsey dies this season, I wouldn't be surprised if he is kept around longer as Jon's nemesis. Maybe the WW start bringing down The Wall, forcing everyone south and they have to lay siege to Winterfell(because it has a jager underneth no doubt) cue fight between Jon and Ramsey.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
And so... In order to be subtle, she sends the over-7-feet-tall undead abomination to kill people?

If cersei were any good at subtle half the series wouldn't have happened. She barely bats an eye when he shows up covered in blood.

Quote:
And what... Did she predict that guy would be talking about her licking her lips?

I got the impression that wasn't the first time he told that story.

Quote:
How did he even hear that guy talking? He wasn't inside the tavern (or someone would have noticed the giant armored zombie sporting the lannister's guard uniform.
It was an outdoor tavern/beer garden and he wasn't exactly quiet.

Yeah, and Gregor was nowhere to be seen... Was he hiding behind the curtains? Did no one notice the giant monstrosity in shiny golden armor?

Besides, Cersei's been playing the "resigned-to-her-fate/redeemed queen-mother" role ever since her walk of shame. It seems she would at very least wait a while before sending her less-than-subtle guardian after random peasants. And so far, everyone acts as if Robert Strong is always by her side (they specifically sent a dozen guard to tell her to stay in her tower).

I don't swallow this "Cersei sent him to kill the guy" idea... Maybe that's the case, but if so, it's a pretty badly written plot point. I can't say with absolute certainty, of course, but I'm convinced this is just a poorly thought scene.

Just like the ninja monks that show up out of nowhere... Did Jamie not see the 30+ guys? Did he forget about them before he spoke to the old man? Do the golden cloaks simply let these guys surround and threaten the captain of the kingsguard?

-.-'

The greatest error in continuity, though, is the fact that Bran's scenes were actually kinda interesting. :P


Lemmy wrote:
In the books, yes. In the show, Kevan isn't even alive anymore, IIRC.

Unless I missed a scene, he is alive, and he is the current Hand of the King.


Lemmy wrote:
Yeah, and Gregor was nowhere to be seen... Was he hiding behind the curtains? Did no one notice the giant monstrosity in shiny golden armor?

He doesn't have to been there. Cersei presumably still has paid informants out there. Without such people she'd never hear anything. So some random informant, not important enough to be shown on screen, happened to be at the beer garden and heard something he knew would both piss her off and get him paid.

I have no argument for why she'd have sent unGregor to handle it, but it's not hard to imagine how she could have been aware of it.


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In the books, Qyburn (the same guy who made greggor) is also her master of spies. So thats one stop shopping right there.


Lemmy wrote:

@Werthead

** spoiler omitted **

That really isn't how George rolls.

Spoiler:
Decisions like that will have been made and committed to a long time ago. So yup, unless George has gone bonkers or decides to dramatically streamline the story and abandon entire plot threads in the last two volumes, Sandor is pretty definitely alive in the books.

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In the books, yes. In the show, Kevan isn't even alive anymore, IIRC.

As said above, yes he is. We saw him in the final episode of Season 5 in KL and as far as we know he's still there.


You know, I really hope Sansa isn't pregnant by Ramsey, that would cause me to leave the show as it would seal the deal that Sansa has utterly no say over her body or actions.

Sovereign Court

MannyGoblin wrote:
You know, I really hope Sansa isn't pregnant by Ramsey, that would cause me to leave the show as it would seal the deal that Sansa has utterly no say over her body or actions.

Because Sansa is such an interesting, captivating character....


MannyGoblin wrote:
You know, I really hope Sansa isn't pregnant by Ramsey, that would cause me to leave the show as it would seal the deal that Sansa has utterly no say over her body or actions.

Is it that much worse than what happened to other characters in the show?

Look at Theon... He was tortured and mutilated to the point where he lost his own self identity.


More like, if Sansa's sole purpose is to be pushed around, abused and violated then there is no reason to spend further time on her. Get her to Castle Black or some other place and then drop her arc for say The Riverlands. We still need to see what the fallout of The Red Wedding is with Blackfish and Brotherhood without Banners still around.

As for Theon, there is the possibility of him getting a redemption arc, which some have a bunch of trouble with since he doesn't deserve one.


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Because Sansa is such an interesting, captivating character....

Not necessarily captivating, but interesting, certainly. She betrayed her father (without meaning to), suffered the loss of her Stark identity after losing her wolf and then had to learn to play the game of thrones to survive Joffrey and then learn from Littlefinger, the guy who basically turned her life into total misery.

The problem with the TV show is that it's kind of interrupted that arc with this story in Winterfell, and it's quite unclear how Sansa's arc is going to unfold now. I think the TV show and books are going to end up in the same place with Sansa, but the way the TV show is doing it may have more action and jeopardy, but it's not really furthering Sansa's character development and has pushed her back into the victim role too readily.


MannyGoblin wrote:
More like, if Sansa's sole purpose is to be pushed around, abused and violated then there is no reason to spend further time on her. Get her to Castle Black or some other place and then drop her arc for say The Riverlands. We still need to see what the fallout of The Red Wedding is with Blackfish and Brotherhood without Banners still around.

Admittedly, she's like the least compelling character in the story... Although, at least in the books, it seems she'll become more interesting in the future, now that she's with Littlefinger, apparently learning from him how to lie and manipulate.

MannyGoblin wrote:
As for Theon, there is the possibility of him getting a redemption arc, which some have a bunch of trouble with since he doesn't deserve one.

Arguably, neither did Sandor or Jamie. Isn't that the whole point of redemption, though? To actually redeem someone.


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I don't know, I found Theon much more sympathetic in the book.

Book stuff spoiled, even though we're past it at this point:
Reek is introduced as a POV character, and when you realize who he is and what he's been through since the fall of Winterfell, you're all, "Day-um, Theon, all is forgiven!" Watching it episode by episode in the TV version got a bit desensitizing.

The calculation he does about not revealing Jeyne Poole's identity to Mance feels more redemptive too. When he rescued Sansa, it felt contrived, maybe because she's such a central character, maybe because his actions were so directly related to his past sins. Doing everything he could to get Jeyne away from Ramsey, when Ramsey's abuse is the only thing they have in common, felt less self-serving on his part.


To be fair, we aren't past the book in all characters' storylines... And the divergence between book and TV show is quite wide by now, and will only grow more and more.


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Nope. Couldn't have happened to a nicer reek. They may not have been Bran and Rikkon but they were still someone's 8 and 6 year olds.


Anakin also killed a bunch of children with his own hands... And committed many other atrocities. And he still got his redemption.

Sandor Clegane also killed at least one child (the butcher's boy), probably more... And he still got his chance at redemption.

Jamie... is a somewhat unique case... It's like he's the Harley Quinn to Cersei's Joker. He really only did evil stuff when influenced/motivated by his sister. Even in the books, he starts acting more honorable after he distances himself from her.

For someone to actually get redemption, they have to do something from what to redeem themselves.


Lemmy wrote:
Anakin also killed a bunch of children with his own hands... And committed many other atrocities. And he still got his redemption.

Horrible writing does not excuse more horrible writing.

Lemmy wrote:

Jamie... is a somewhat unique case... It's like he's the Harley Quinn to Cersei's Joker. He really only did evil stuff when influenced/motivated by his sister. Even in the books, he starts acting more honorable after he distances himself from her.

For someone to actually get redemption, they have to do something from what to redeem themselves.

That all being said I'm trying to understand why people discuss redemption with respect the GoT. That notion is influenced by "kind" Gods, which this world lacks. Those that are intelligent and ruthless prevail here. Those that are overly "good" or overly "evil" end up dying once they come to true power. Trust is also punished.

Yes, there is the single example, but things aren't going well in the south right now. I keep thinking it will be a huge payoff if/when that person also dies... assuming Martin has the guts at this point to do it.


L'cutus wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Anakin also killed a bunch of children with his own hands... And committed many other atrocities. And he still got his redemption.
Horrible writing does not excuse more horrible writing.

Horrible is subjective.

Lemmy wrote:

Jamie... is a somewhat unique case... It's like he's the Harley Quinn to Cersei's Joker. He really only did evil stuff when influenced/motivated by his sister. Even in the books, he starts acting more honorable after he distances himself from her.

For someone to actually get redemption, they have to do something from what to redeem themselves.

That all being said I'm trying to understand why people discuss redemption with respect the GoT. That notion is influenced by "kind" Gods, which this world lacks. Those that are intelligent and ruthless prevail here. Those that are overly "good" or overly "evil" end up dying once they come to true power. Trust is also punished.

Yes, there is the single example, but things aren't going well in the south right now. I keep thinking it will be a huge payoff if/when that person also dies... assuming Martin has the guts at this point to do it.

Meh... The idea of "redemption" isn't necessarily tied to any divine deity (that's probably the origin of the term, though).

- Tell the queen your plans to reveal her incestual affair to the king? Get beheaded.
- Betray your pact with your slimiest/most spiteful ally while on a war with the world's wealthiest man? Get shot at your wedding.
- Boast and brag while fighting the strongest man in the world? Get your head crushed!
- Be such a c&++ that no one wants to see you in power and/or married to their daughter? Get poisoned.
- Anger the resentful son who is pointing a freaking crossbow at you? Get bolted.

And so on...

Of course, sometimes this "foolishness" is just a byproduct of honor, pride and/or legitimate ignorance... But it's still foolish nonetheless.

The point is... Most dead characters did something to "deserve" their death. And GRRM is unforgiving.


Small "r" redemption, not the divine kind. Like the kind that gets you double money for your empties in Michigan.


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Hitdice wrote:
Small "r" redemption, not the divine kind. Like the kind that gets you double money for your empties in Michigan.

Used glass bottles resent the comparison to theon greyjoy.


He wasn't that bad... For GoT standards of villany. :P


Something that might happen considering the season 6 preview. Around the :47 mark there is Littlefinger standing in a Snowy forest. He might appear to Sansa and her group and attempt to take her away by reasoning that Ramsey will be beelining for Castle Black.

Jon gets the Pink Letter that Ramsey has Ricken and he wants Sansa back but since Sansa isn't there he can't do anything(Or has to march out)

I would really hate for Sansa to head to The Wall and then be forced to turn around since this is pretty much the one chance she has to have some say in what happens to her.
Video in question


Quote:
Something that might happen considering the season 6 preview. Around the :47 mark there is Littlefinger standing in a Snowy forest. He might appear to Sansa and her group and attempt to take her away by reasoning that Ramsey will be beelining for Castle Black.

I'm not a fan of Teleporting Littlefinger and this really would be preposterous. He'd have no way of finding them in the wilderness.

Based on the images from the set:

Spoiler:
Sansa is at the Battle of Winterfell with Jon and the Stark banners. My guess is that Sansa and Jon join forces, rally as much of the North as possible and win the battle. It is also possible they are defeated, but are then relieved by the Vale army led by Littlefinger (which he was gathering up in Season 5 to invade the North). I can then see an alliance between them designed to bring down the Lannisters, possibly just in time for Dany to arrive and they can thrash things out between them. Of course, with the White Walkers invading, this may all become academic.


Littlefinger has a jetpack.


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MannyGoblin wrote:
As for Theon, there is the possibility of him getting a redemption arc, which some have a bunch of trouble with since he doesn't deserve one.
Unforgiven wrote:

'Little Bill' Daggett: "I don't deserve this... to die like this. I was building a house."

William Munny: "Deserve has got nothing to do with it." (aims gun)
'Little Bill': "I'll see you in Hell, William Munny."
William Munny: "Yeah." (fires)
Unforgiven wrote:

The Schofield Kid: "Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming."

William Munny: "We all have it coming, kid."


More of an un-redemption story...

'Course Little Bill did NOT know who he was f&!*ing with.


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The later i stay up tonight the shorter tomorrow will be

Dark Archive

The Viper and The Mountain.


prepare popcorn... FOR BATTLE


NOOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOOOOOooOOOOOOOOO!!!

Spoiler:
*sniffle* RIP shaggydog. You will be avenged


By Grabthar's Hodor...


Nooo:
So much for Shaggydog taking over Ramsey's hounds and having him suffer karmic death


They seem to be going out of their way not to have anyone BUT bran warg on the show

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Ugh half Ass tower of Joy sequence. Plus howland was way too tall to be a little craggonman. Jon is so pale now tho.


Plus they really want Ramsey to be Joffery 2.0 but Joffery was an utter screw-up while Ramsey pretty boys all over the place and just can't lose. He'll die, but it will be a quick end after he appears to be unstoppable, not a 'Wow, this guy really brought everything down on him, eh?"


Spoiler:
In the books Rickon was wild child that made Aria look like sansa-since you know, mom was busy dad was dead and he was pretty much raised with his dire wolf. I really want to see him go medieval on some Karstarks


Hitdice wrote:
Ooh, that's some nice rules lawyering, BNW! :)

*buffs claws*


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Theory someone posted is that Rickon might die so Sansa can be declared Queen of the North so the other houses can rally around her. If a male heir that can inherit is still alive, then she wouldn't be able to gain that title.


MannyGoblin wrote:
Theory someone posted is that Rickon might die so Sansa can be declared Queen of the North so the other houses can rally around her. If a male heir that can inherit is still alive, then she wouldn't be able to gain that title.

The below are some rumors from set leaks: In other words if you don't want the ending of the season spoiled DON'T READ

Show Rumors:

set leaks from the big "battle of the bastards" apparently indicate two significant characters are burned at the stake by the boltons in advance of the big battle, as a intimidating (?) move. Rickon and Osha seem leading candidates

Although part of me kind of hopes it's them because my other best guesses are Brienne and Podrick, or maybe Davos and Melisandre. And honestly I would rather not lose those characters.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

HBO's Preview videos have B&P down in the Riverlands at some point (Tully banners in BG). On westeros.org's forums, there has been a lot of discussion on how the rumored option seems so much of a narrative waste. Why bring up 2 season missing characters to off them immediately? But, to be fair, they offed Dorne in episode 1. Based on what else has been seen in the season previews, your final hope is probably partially if not wholly right, in my opinion. I mean if they were gonna eliminate a relatively minor character like that (he doesn't even have a chapter in the books, soooooo minor of a character), why not just have Smalljon bring him corpses instead of hostages?


Because to quote a member of the tully family, its a trap? He doesn't want john snow building up an army and laying siege to a place he knows like the back of his hand, he needs him rushing in to an all out fight where walls and numbers mean a lot more.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

The Brown Fish, Catelyn Stark's *OTHER* estranged uncle, who went to King's Landing to become an Admiral with Robert's Rebellion against the Targarian Empire. He saved thousands of lives at the battle of the 2nd Trident by recognizing that the Targs had a fully operational Barristan Selmy.

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