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Hey folks,
So I've decided that I'd like to make a backup character for a current campaign, and I'd like to go with something that cripples my opponents for my teammates to finish, but not as flashy as a wizard/sorc, if that makes sense.
I've heard good things about a bad touch cleric, or a rime magus, and those seem sort of in the right direction. What I'm looking for, is for folks to share with me a specific build, at about level 5. It doesnt have to 100% work at level 5, but it needs to be at least close.
Thanks in advance for the advice and help!!
I'd prefer single enemy, slap as many debuffs quickly on one enemy as I can, sort of thing. I hope that helps, and thanks for the basic rundown there
hexcrafter by STR Ranger
With a 20pt buy the best race option I can think of is Human
STR 13 DEX 14 CON 14 WIS 10 INT 18 CHA 7
Note: A 2 level dip in White Haired Witch is needed to REALLY up the Debuffs and action Economy on this build.
Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Wayang Spellhunter (Frigid Touch)
1 (Witch 1) (White Haired Witch archetype) Feats: Rime Spell, Combat Reflexes
(King Crab familiar, Strength or Wisdom Patron)
2 (Witch 2) - Constrict
3 (Magus 1) Spell Combat, Arcane Pool Feat: Power Attack
4 (Magus 2) Spellstrike
5 (Magus 3) Arcana- Arcane Accuracy Feat: Final Embrace
6 (Magus 4) Hex Arcana- Prehensile Hair
7 (Magus 5) Feat: Cornugon Smash Bonus Feat: Extra Arcana (Flight Hex)
8 (Magus 6) Arcana: Spell Scars
9 (Magus 7) Medium Armor, Knowledge Pool Feat: Lunge
10 (Magus8) Improved spell combat
11 (Magus9) Arcana: Hasted Assault Feat: Elemental Spell (Acid or Cold)
12 (Magus10) Fighter Training
13 (Magus11) Spell Recall Bonus Feat: Sickening Spell
14 (Magus12) Hex Arcana: Ice Tomb
15 (Magus 13) Heavy Armor
Why it's good:
At 7th level a prepared Defiler can inflict Grappled, Staggered, Fatigued, Entangled, Prone and Shaken onto a target with a single standard action. If he decides to make a full action he can also add Blind to that target.
The bad:
It’s a dedicated melee build with lower HP’s than any other and has delayed getting access to Heavy armor until 15th level.
How it works:
This build hinges around using your Hair natural attack for ALL your attack actions. As your only natural attack it is always at Full Bab and does 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls. Since you use your Intelligence bonus in place of strength every time you boost your Int you boost your melee to-hit and damage. Taking two levels of Witch grants three important benefits.
1. An always on Natural attack that can never be sundered, disarmed or stolen.
2. A superior Grab ability that naturally doesn’t make you grappled while you are grappling (everyone else has to take a -20 on each grapple check to get this)
3. A Constrict ability that is based off your Intelligence and works with Power Attack.
Now this is a de-buff build so our go to spells are Frostbite (rimed) and Frigid Touch mixed with Power Attack and Cornugon Smash all channeled through 4 different combat maneuvers (Sunder, Trip, Dirty Trick & Disarm).
Note: All combat maneuvers are attack rolls, anything that is activated by a successful hit are activated by a successful combat maneuver as well.
Combat begins by activating your Prehensile Hair and using your arcane pool to get the +attack on it as high as you can and moving into position to respond to any AoO provoking action. At your first chance Spellstrike a Rimmed Frostbite and attempt a combat maneuver (Trip or Dirty Trick is best) on a target 10’ away (try to always power attack this if you can).
(This will be at full Bab + Int Bonus +Arcane pool Bonus +Arcane Accuracy Bonus -Power attack Penalty vs. targets CMD)
If successful this will trip the target, and inflict the Fatigued, Prone and Entangled condition as well as 1D6+your Magus level non-lethal damage.
(Prone is -4 to attacks and CMD, Fatigue is -2 to Dex and Str for another -2 to attacks and CMD, Entangled is another -2 to attacks and -4 to Dex for another -2 to attacks and a concentration check to cast spells. Total = -6 to Dex, -2 to Str for a -4 to attacks, -8 CMD, -3 to AC)
This also triggers your Grab ability so now make a Grapple check against their CMD -8. If you succeed then move them to any square adjacent to you (automatic action) and inflict Constrict Damage against the target. (1D4 + 1.5x Int modifier + Power attack Bonus). This will also activate your Cornugon Smash Feat so also make an Intimidate check now to demoralize them to inflict the Shaken Condition.
(Adding the Grapple condition reduces Dex by an additional -4, Attack rolls and Combat Maneuvers by 2, and adds another concentration check to cast, Shaken reduces attacks, saves, skill checks and ability checks by 2 more. Total = -10 to Dex, -2 to Str, -10 to attacks, -2 to saves, skill checks and ability checks and requires 2 Concentration checks to cast a spell)
All of this is done with a single standard action. If you decide to use Spell combat all of the above will happen with the addition at the end to cast an additional spell (which will end the charges from Frostbite), we usually use a Frigid touch spell to inflict 4D6 damage and the staggered condition (it is recommended to either use a Metamagic on this, either Rime, Sickened or Empower).
All together the target should be Prone, Fatigued, Entangled, Grappled, Shaken, Staggered and Flanked. At higher levels you can add Sickened and Blind as well.
A Defiler should invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fist:Spell Storing (not needed but truly worth it) and keep either a Blindness, Rimed Frigid Touch or Bestow Curse in it at all times with Blindness being the most effective.
With this build raising your Int as high as you can is paramount since it powers ALL of your combat ability (attacks, damage, CMB, etc) followed by either your Dex (for more AoO’s, and reflex saves) or Con (to absorb all the damage that will be thrown your way the first time you use this trick). Keep your Intimidate as high as you can (class skill from your Witch dip), and get as many +hit bonuses as possible to make sure you can always succeed on your Combat Maneuvers.
If you would like to do more damage while doing this, always remember releasing a target from a grapple is a free action and the spell from spell combat can go after all your normal attacks. So after the steps above release the target and do a normal attack with the hair triggering everything again for more damage, THEN do the spell combat for the Frigid touch spell for a third touch attack (this requires you to have pre-cast the Frostbite in a previous round).
I'd prefer single enemy, slap as many debuffs quickly on one enemy as I can, sort of thing. I hope that helps, and thanks for the basic rundown there
Slapping on debuffs, although nice, isn't a big deal unless you have mechanics to come with that make them a big deal, and they gotta be able to stick effectively.
I would personally recommend the Dirty Trick maneuver chain; the first debuff can be extremely debilitating, almost keep enemies out of combat unless they waste actions to break free. It also affects enemies of all sizes, shapes, etc. As long as you're creative about it, and can be somewhat online by 5th level with the proper Archetypes.
A Human Lore Warden Fighter would have access to most of the Dirty Trick feats by 3rd level, and the key Dirty Trick feats would come at 6th and 7th level (but is more than servicable at 5th).
Stats, 20 Point Buy:
Strength - 13 (5)
Dexterity - 16 + 2 = 18 (10)
Constitution - 10 (0)
Wisdom - 12 (2)
Intelligence - 13 (3)
Charisma - 10 (0)
Basic Feat breakdown, * = Bonus Feat:
1. Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Aldori Dueling Sword)*, Weapon Focus (Aldori Dueling Sword)*, Weapon Finnesse
2. Combat Expertise*, Slashing Grace*
3. Improved Dirty Tricks
4. Weapon Specialization (Aldori Dueling Sword)*
5. Power Attack
6. Greater Dirty Tricks*
7. Quick Dirty Tricks
8-20. ???
You can also deal some decent damage with that build if you have an enemy debilitated to the point to where it will take him several rounds to remove conditions (Move Actions to remove at 5th level, Standard Actions to remove at 6th level).
If you're more of a spellcaster player, I'd fully recommend the Witch. Evil Eye, Slumber, and Misfortune are the 3 most powerful debuffs a Witch can do, and they can all come online by 5th level if you're spending feats for Extra Hexes.
Korthis' build has a couple things based on loose interpretation (white haired witch stacking with Prehensile Hair, multiple swift actions per round, and a couple other things) but it both covers everything you need to know about frostbite magus and gives a lot of good suggestions towards the white haired witch. Simplifying things a bit: magus takes magical lineage trait (frostbite) so that rime doesn't increase spell level and takes the feat enforcer. Whenever you attack with a non-lethal weapon (just to be safe. Many DMs will rule that frostbite's nonlethal qualifies, but I don't like leaving it up to chance) you fatigue, entangle, and shaken. Add a cruel weapon and you also sicken.
The bounty hunter slayer archetype lets you do a dirty trick instead of extra damage whenever you can sneak attack at 3rd level. Taking 2 levels of thug rogue (unchained if allowed) lets you also frighten and sicken. Once again take enforcer and you can blind, entangle, frighten, sicken at 5th lvl (TWF to max number of attacks).
Both oracle and sorcerer have some fun tag along effects when they cast spells. 1 duel cursed waves oracle/4 duel blooded sorcerer (cold elemental/void touched) slows, entangles, and silences (and usually fatigues The best part is you can convert snapdragon fireworks to cold and thus shoot off a save vs slow and entangle (with rime spell) every round as a move action while still casting other spells that silence, and require another save vs slow. Thanks to the waves mystery you can fight from a obscuring mist and have total concealment and the misfortune revelation allows a free reroll per day per person (good rerolls for you and allies, bad for enemies)
Hi.
One bump just to see if anyone has more ideas. I like the crunch of the white haired witch, but the roleplaying stuff just seems...like i cant really fluff a way that it doesnt seem so weird.
The Lore Warden and Slayer look awesome. If anyone has a bad touch cleric build I'd love that too. Thanks again!
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Half orca thug rogue (unchained)
Dex>Con=Cha>Int=wis=str
Traits: fiery gaze, dominator
Feats: enforcer, dazzling display, combat reflexes, Surprise maneuvers, whip master chain
Rogue talents: weapon trick(whip), shatter defenses, fast stealth, (1 more), duel debilitation at 10th level.
Sickened, frightened, shaken, debilitated. -4 AC, saves, attacks, skills, etc.
I have a hexcrafter build I've been noodling around that takes off at level 5.
Half-Orc Magus 5
Racial traits: City-raised, Sacred Tattoo
Traits: Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Fate's favored
STR 16 (+2 racial)
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 16 (+1 leveling)
WIS 12
CHA 12
1: Enforcer
2:
3: Rime Spell, Wand Wielder
4: Magus Hex: Slumber
5: Improved Unarmed Strike, Hex Strike (slumber)
Buy a wand of ill omen and an amulet of mighty fists (spell storing) that you keep topped off with ill omen.
Begin combat: cast Rime frostbite, find nearest enemy, punch for non-lethal. If you hit, frostbite makes them fatigued and entangled. You then get a free action intimidate to make them shaken. You can free action dump an ill-omen from your amulet, and finally use hex strike for a swift action slumber. Most CR5 or CR6 monsters (that aren't immune) who have to make a DC 15 will save twice in a row over a -2 penalty are going to wind up taking a nap.
Next round get out your wand and any time you wind up next to somebody use spell combat to cast ill omen and punch-timidate-slumber them. If you ever miss with the punch go ahead and use the freed up swift action to dip into your arcane pool and enhance your unarmed strikes. If you're really having trouble landing your punches then try switching to a wand of true strike or blade lash.
At level seven you will want to think about retraining Enforcer into Power Attack and take Cornugon Smash. Alternatively pick up a familiar at six and improved familiar at seven, then let your familiar create havoc with the ill omen wand.
You could also go Half-Elf, take Bruising Intellect as your second trait, and dump CHA to get more of a 18/12/14/16/10/7 kind of stat line at level 5. You then get a bonus arcana at 6, which is nice. I just like the fluff of a Half-Orc with a sacred tattoo decorating his knuckles walking around punching people out.
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If you want to use Chuffsters idea, make sure you clear with ypur GM that hexcrafters can take hexstrike. Otherwise we're good.
Consider getting a familiar, then take improved familiar for small earth elemental. Give small earth elemental a hooked lance (x4) crit multiplier. Cast floating disk (use extended rod if need), on start of the day. Get earth elemental to stand on on the disk. Since it says when not directed, the disc remains within in 5 ft of you, so have the disk, carrying the earth elemental, stay in 5 ft behind you. Get the earth elemental to CDG anything you slumber with the hooked lance. X4 crit, power attack and CDG is not a good combination for monsters. Not to mention earth elemental start with 16 str...
I suspect there might be something inherently wrong with that idea, so I didn't try it for PFS, but I don't see any rules that I might be breaching :P
More thematically you should have the earth elemental wielding a scythe and wearing a hooded robe.
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Uh, thats a nice picture, but I'm very fond of my familiars and would stand between them and harm. You know, you are closer to the front, hopefully monsters go after you rather then him (Since he has half your hp). Besides if your familiar gets killed, there goes all future cdg attempts till you get a new one.
The arguments against this are the following:
1) Some GMs rule earth elementals cannot use weapons. Can understand that, in which you need to try to find a way to get cha to 13, take evolved familiar to grant reach evolution. So the earth elementals slam has 10 ft reach. Sadly cdg dmg will drop to only 2d6+14 due to natural weapons only having x2 crit.
Make DC 10 + 2d6+14 fort save or die. Ill omen was still on, no? Guess they need to save twice, take lowest, then. At lv 6 hexcrafter, the damage increases to 2d6+20, as per scaling with power attack. With mauler archtype you might be able to improve on the str part.
2) Some GMs say you can't put living things on a floating disk. This to me, doesn't make sense. You can put a dead body on the disk, but not a living one? Or that staying on a floating disc eats your move action (but hey, objects don't hate move actions to lose and still can remain on the disk!) If GM forbids it then, sorry, whole idea won't work.
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Uh, thats a nice picture, but I'm very fond of my familiars and would stand between them and harm. You know, you are closer to the front, hopefully monsters go after you rather then him (Since he has half your hp). Besides if your familiar gets killed, there goes all future cdg attempts till you get a new one.
The arguments against this are the following:
1) Some GMs rule earth elementals cannot use weapons. Can understand that, in which you need to try to find a way to get cha to 13, take evolved familiar to grant reach evolution. So the earth elementals slam has 10 ft reach. Sadly cdg dmg will drop to only 2d6+14 due to natural weapons only having x2 crit.
Make DC 10 + 2d6+14 fort save or die. Ill omen was still on, no? Guess they need to save twice, take lowest, then. At lv 6 hexcrafter, the damage increases to 2d6+20, as per scaling with power attack. With mauler archtype you might be able to improve on the str part.2) Some GMs say you can't put living things on a floating disk. This to me, doesn't make sense. You can put a dead body on the disk, but not a living one? Or that staying on a floating disc eats your move action (but hey, objects don't hate move actions to lose and still can remain on the disk!) If GM forbids it then, sorry, whole idea won't work.
That's why you don't use a familiar for this tactic, you purchase a Homonculus. All the perks of having a familiar with none of the downsides and at only 4K a pop you can always have 2-3 of them around at a time.
all awesome ideas!! thanks guys.
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Korthis' build has a couple things based on loose interpretation (white haired witch stacking with Prehensile Hair, multiple swift actions per round, and a couple other things) but it both covers everything you need to know about frostbite magus and gives a lot of good suggestions towards the white haired witch. Simplifying things a bit: magus takes magical lineage trait (frostbite) so that rime doesn't increase spell level and takes the feat enforcer. Whenever you attack with a non-lethal weapon (just to be safe. Many DMs will rule that frostbite's nonlethal qualifies, but I don't like leaving it up to chance) you fatigue, entangle, and shaken. Add a cruel weapon and you also sicken.
I've been thinking that this build works particularly well with an Esoteric Magus for a number of reasons. Unarmed Strikes can deliver non-lethal damage so there are no rules issues over whether Frostbite's damage qualifies for Enforcer. They get Spellstrike at first level, so the Rime Spell option is available sooner. And since an Amulet of Mighty Fists doesn't require the usual +1 enhancement, you can get the Cruel special ability sooner.
Human Esoteric Magus 5
Traits
Magical Lineage (Frostbite), Bruising Intellect
Ability Scores (20 point buy)
STR: 16 (+2 Racial Bonus)
CON:14
DEX:14
INT:16 (+1 Leveling Bonus)
WIS:10
CHA:8
Feats
1: Enforcer, Rime Spell
3: Arcane Strike
5: Riving Strike
First Level Punch
At first level you can potentially deliver all of the following with a single attack:
- 1d6 + 2(STR Mod) non-lethal damage from your Unarmed Strike
- 1d6 + 1 non-lethal cold damage from Frostbite
- the Fatigued condition from Frostbite (-2 STR, -2 DEX, no running, no charging)
- the Shaken condition from Enforcer (–2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks)
- the Frightened condition from a critical hit with Enforcer (creature flees, –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks)
- The Entangled condition from Rime Spell (moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, -2 penalty on all attack rolls, -4 penalty to DEX, concentration check to cast spells)
Fifth Level Punch
By fifth level you should be able to afford an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Cruel special ability (4,000 g.p.) and possibly +1 Brawling Armor (4,000 g.p.). So the damage from a single punch could be:
- 1d8 + 3(STR Mod) + 2(Arcane Strike) + 2(Brawling) non-lethal damage from your Unarmed Strike
- 1d6 + 5 non-lethal cold damage from Frostbite
And in addition to the conditions from first level, you could potentially deliver:
- The debuff from Riving Strike (-2 penalty on saving throws vs. spells or SLA's)
- The Sickened condition from the Cruel special ability (-2 on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks)
The only consumable resource in this entire scenario is one spell, and by 5th level you get 5 attacks with it. If you buff yourself with some spells before battle or activate your Arcane Pool you could do even more damage, of course. There is probably a Magus Arcana that would help out here too, but I'm feeling too tired to research those right now.
The only consumable resource in this entire scenario is one spell, and by 5th level you get 5 attacks with it. If you buff yourself with some spells before battle or activate your Arcane Pool you could do even more damage, of course. There is probably a Magus Arcana that would help out here too, but I'm feeling too tired to research those right now.
Interesting archetype. I guess this is a pretty strong argument that the regular magus can't pump his unarmed strikes with his arcane pool, which is kind of a bummer.
The issue I see with this is that you're not going to keep up with the ginsu knife whirligig of the transmogrified magus. At level four the transmogrifier is doing bite-claw-claw as a troglodyte. At level seven it's going bite-claw-claw-claw-claw as a four armed Sahuagin mutant. Arcane strike hits all of the attacks. Enforcer might be a little shaky but at seven the transmogrifier can line up Power Attack -> Cornugon strike.
Meanwhile you're doing punch-punch at -2 if you spell combat, which doesn't seem to be the plan. Maybe a wand of blade lash to stretch your resources while still getting more attacks in?
Most of what boosts the unarmed strike also boosts natural attacks. To really differentiate yourself I think you're going to have to go into the style feats or possibly the ki pool stuff.
How about this?
1: Combat Expertise, Enforcer
3: Wand Wielder Arcana, Improved Trip
5: Ki Throw
With that wand of blade lash you can now do a sort of reverse pounce with spellcombat. Use the wand of blade lash to trip somebody within twenty feet of you. Ki throw dumps them next to you and you then take your second attack against your now prone opponent. Your buddies should be set up to flank him and take their own turns pounding on the guy.