I need help.


Advice


In my group, I play a barbarian. This, of course, makes things such as rolling for Diplomacy and Intelligence based skills very difficult. The rest of my group is composed of a paladin, a cleric, a ranger, and a rogue, and all of them like to talk their way out of most scenarios where we are supposed to fight. This leaves me feeling very useless since I can't talk my way out of situations. So, naturally I try to instead fight my way out of situations so I don't feel useless. This, however, sometimes makes matters worse since I tend to act before I think. As a result, the rest of the group and the gamemaster become angry at me. So I just stay quiet and don't do anything, thinking that I will make bad scenarios even worse. I have gotten really tired of it and told my gamemaster how I felt. He said that I just didn't fit in with the group and that barbarian just didn't suit me. I disagree with that because I love playing a barbarian.

How could I make myself feel less useless?


Übernerd wrote:
How could I make myself feel less useless?

Start putting some ranks in social skills? Barbarians get 4+Int, so if you want to make a difference, ask your DM if you can retrain some skill points. Drop something like Climb or whatever you can shed, and put the ranks into a social skill. You won't get the +3 for it being class, and you won't have the Charisma of a sorcerer but hey, you don't have to be an expert to do okay.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Your character doesn't have to be skilled or well-polished to talk. In a good game, diverse characters with diverse skills drive an interesting story. So enjoy your strengths and weaknesses.

Being bad at diplomacy and bluff doesn't mean you must stay quiet. I mean, aren't the least diplomatic people you know loud. Aren't the worst bluffers people who tell facile lies. Isn't the least effective intimidation an act so scary people conclude you are too bonkers to work with.

So speak up. Offer bad plans. Offer unintentional insults. Make unwise concessions. Draw erroneous conclusions. Get into the conversation. Obviously, there are limits, you need to know when you being in on it makes life less fun for the next guy. But a FUN game can involve your character being bad at some aspect of the game.

That said, make sure you are a good fit. If it is a group where people wanna talk to every monster and that sounds terrible to you, it may be a bad fit. From your short description, it seems like their objection is to you ending taking abruptly with violence. If done frequently, that's pretty annoying because you are changing the style of the game from one they enjoy.


A few thoughts:

First: Are you helping? That is, if your group prefers diplomacy, are you starting fights just because you're bored? If so, then you're undermining the group.

Second: Find a niche. Maybe you aren't Mister Diplomacy or Mister Interaction. But that doesn't mean you're a nothing in diplomatic encounters. How's your Perception skill? What about your Knowledges? Did you drop a little bit in Sense Motive? If you're not diplomacizing, then you can be watching the other side to see if they're about to pull a weapon, or you could be using your Knowledge skills to remember some obscure custom.

Third: Be creative. There are many, many ways to affect a diplomatic encounter. Even if you're not rolling diplomacy, see if your GM will let you roll for something else that will help. Maybe you can use Survival to forage for berries and nuts that will be a suitable gift for the fairy princess. Maybe you can flex your muscles (a simple Strength check) and impress Princess Prettyface with your manhood. Maybe a savage tribe's diplomatic exercises include feats of ritual combat. Use your imagination.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

At some point, your GM made a mistake. For one thing, he should have told you up front that this was a campaign with a focus on diplomacy and intrigue--assuming it *is* that sort of campaign. I'm assuming that's the case, as opposed to a typical campaign where the other players are simply taking an unusual approach. In a typical campaign, there are plenty of opportunities for combat and those are the times when a Barbarian usually shines.

Another mistake your GM may have made is this: whether he told you up front that it was going to be this sort of campaign or not, he should try to find ways to give everyone a chance to contribute. In Pathfinder, it shouldn't be difficult to find a use for a Barbarian.


A Barbarian does not mean you have only one reason to live. To fight.
You can do plenty of things outside of combat and even can contribute in unexpected ways.
My wive plays a barbarian, and while she rocks in combat, she is always a strong contributor in other areas. Maybe she asks honest questions, goes to the female angle, helps playing the bad cop or just guards my ass, she has loads to do!
Be a bodyguard the one who looks for dangers while the others have their talk, try to do a threat assessment, check for exit strategies etc.


I would like to ask how much of a backstory you have developed for your character? I find that developing a rich origin for my characters gives direction to everything they do. They need motivations, not just feats or skills to come to life during the game.

If you haven't done it yet, dig through the Inner Sea World Guide and write out some bullet points of where your character comes from, what inspired him and what his long term goals are.


Drop points into intimidation. Intimidate everyone.


Sounds like you are role-playing your character and for whatever reason, the other people don't like it.

This can require a bit of finesse, since you need to start thinking of the other players and GM as an audience, and as participants in your character's actions.

Try making it explicitly clear that your are playing your barbarian as impulsive as a character trait, and that you're eager to see how their more restrained PCs deal with those situations, but you don't want to annoy them personally (even though their PCs might well become annoyed).

You can get pretty far by explaining that it's your character's personality to do these things, but not if you're actually using this as a crutch or excuse for bad behavior. You need to take the temperature of the group on these things.


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You could always make Diplomacy checks yourself; the end product should be unfriendly or hostile parties ... then comes the fighting. ;)


Are you saying
A) that Diplomacy and Int-based skills are hard for you because you tanked both your Charisma and your Int?
OR
B) that you don't believe a barbarian should be good at Diplomacy and Int-based skills?

If the answer is A, maybe focus on Intimidate as your social skill and pick up the feat Intimidating Prowess to add your Strength mod to your Intimidate check. If their Diplomacy fails, try stepping in with Intimidate. You can force someone to act friendly for a short period of time, then they will turn hostile (and then you beat them up).

If the answer is B, that's a role-playing choice. You can just change that choice whenever you want. Barbarians are only prevented from using Int and Charisma-based skills while they are raging. If the rest of the party is trying to talk and you have already entered rage, you have a much bigger problem than just Diplomacy and Knowledge skills.

Side note: Using Int-based skills does not mean you are trying to be non-violent or trying to talk your way past an encounter. The most common use of a knowledge skill is getting the answer to "How do I kill that thing?" The most dangerous member of the party is often the guy with the right answer to that question.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've played two barbarian characters recently, and both were not slouches in social interaction.

One was an elf barbarian in a party of all elves that were all trying to be perfect English gentlemen. Even though I had no ranks in any Cha- or Int- skills, I was still vocal. The rest of the party was a rogue and cavalier/sorcerer, so they DID have social skills.

In another group, I have a dwarf barbarian 1/magus 6 with a 6 Charisma. He is REALLY good at saying the wrong thing. He even uses failed Diplomacy checks as agro.

Also (or especially), talk with your GM. Maybe he can introduce encounters or challenges that aren't necessarily combat-oriented, but still require physical prowess, like chases, lifting and breaking things, rescuing people from burning buildings or icy lakes, etc. Maybe he can have some combat encounters with aberrations, animals, constructs, magical beasts, plants, mindless undead, vermin, and other low- or un-intelligent opponents.


Lore the Seeker wrote:

I would like to ask how much of a backstory you have developed for your character? I find that developing a rich origin for my characters gives direction to everything they do. They need motivations, not just feats or skills to come to life during the game.

If you haven't done it yet, dig through the Inner Sea World Guide and write out some bullet points of where your character comes from, what inspired him and what his long term goals are.

I have come up with a backstory for him all the way from his family to what he did before the adventure.


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I don't know whatever happened with this but here was a situation that came up in my game a little while ago. I had the following party:

LG m hum paladin 2
CG m 1/2 elf ranger (dungeon delver) 2
NG m 1/2 elf magus 2
NG m dwarf cleric 2

The scene was that the PCs came upon a bunch of CN fey who'd made it their mission to protect a particular stand of trees which in turn was the easiest way to the dungeon. Of course the magus and cleric basically said burn it down but the ranger and paladin decide to diplomacize since the paladin had been very productive with talking to fey earlier in the game.

The magus also has diplomacy so he joins in. Now I've got the three players chatting and every time I came to the cleric he's just like "I have a low Cha and no ranks in Diplomacy; what am I SUPPOSED to do?" I was handling it like a combat and taking turns, so my next time through when I got to the cleric's player I asked "Do you have knowledge: religion?"

He answered yes so I explained that there was a shrine to Desna amid this stand. He perked up and asked "will the fey let us go to the shrine, pay our respects and then just go on?" I asked him to roll Knowledge: Religion to EXPLAIN the need to the fey. He cast Guidance on himself and then made the roll, using a bit of conversation as a Free action; his total roll came out to exactly 25 which was the DC they had to hit on the Diplomacy.

I asked the player HOW he was saying it. He gave a short speech but then also described how he drew the symbol in the dirt and explained the consequence to the party if they did not observe the proper homage to the shrine. I was really impressed not just with the roll but the fact that this guy was so descriptive after being so glum.

The fey relented. The paladin made another Diplomacy check along the same theme of visiting the shrine and even got one of the pixies to lead them to it. Once there they convinced the pixies to keep an eye out for kobolds; the PCs then made camp just beyond the trees with the vigilant pixies watching over them. The cleric, completing the whole thing, gave the pixies each a Desnan blessing using Knowledge: Religion and proclaimed them the keepers of the shrine. In the game world this is now a thing; if you visit this particular shrine to Desna these "butterfly men" reveal themselves and make you swear an oath of protection to the woods.


Mark Hoover wrote:
The magus also has diplomacy so he joins in. Now I've got the three players chatting and every time I came to the cleric he's just like "I have a low Cha and no ranks in Diplomacy; what am I SUPPOSED to do?" I was handling it like a combat and taking turns, so my next time through when I got to the cleric's player I asked "Do you have knowledge: religion?"

This is awesomeness, and something I've been trying to prod my players to do. Instead of letting the party face take turns all the time, they can use their own interaction skills, or even some of their obscure skills, to try to help. My table's barbarian did something pretty creative last session. The party was trying to negotiate with a tribe of centaurs. As the party face started negotiating, the barb's player asked, "So, could I do a wrestling match or something with someone?" The idea, I think, was to do a sort of test of strength with a little competition.

I didn't have the performance combat rules nearby, so I skipped them. But I did have a centaur barbarian statted up. So the barbarian and this female centaur got into a wrestling match. The whole table seemed to enjoy it. I described a crowd of centaurs gathering around to cheer, and the combat (completely with nonlethal damage) took around 10-15 rounds as the barbarian and the centaur lady wrestled back and forth. The contest turned pretty serious, actually, with the centaur mare switching to fists and the Dirty Trick maneuver to try to gain an advantage. The PC did triumph, eventually.


Mark Hoover wrote:
Good Stuff

I wish things like this were baked into the system more. I really like how you handled this, but a lot of GM's would not think of it as Knowledge checks are just for knowing stuff, not for explaining it, and even would call foul if a player tried it.

Pathfinder has a bad habit of making everything either a Diplomacy or a Perception check; something I've noticed since I've started GM'ing Way of the Wicked is that they use Appraise or an appropriate Knowledge skill instead of Perception if the check is for noticing the value or importance of something rather than simply seeing that it is there.


The key to all this is the GM asking "do you have Knowledge: Religion?" You can get away with it in a homebrew. In a PFS or PF Core game not so much.

If however you have the leisure of playing a homebrew game, TRY STUFF. I don't know about ALL GMs but most love it when players involve themselves SOMEHOW.

You're a barbarian in a social scene? Observe the local pets with Handle Animal; use Sense Motive on the other side; pull out any Knowledge check you have. If all else fails, look at your feats. You've got Power Attack? Fine; if both parties have hit a stalemate in the conversation challenge an opponent to a Sundering contest. You and your foe grab your weapon of choice and Power Attack an inanimate object to determine your worth.

Son of a... just TRY something! Anything. Yeah, some GMs will just be jerkfaces about it but some will factor your action into the scene SOMEHOW. Always be active, be engaged and I guarantee you you'll get more out of the game. Chances are your GM will too.


Playing low Cha characters is kind of an art. You don't need to keep quiet, precisely the opposite in your case.

Your character is brash and impulsive, as well as un-diplomatic and guile-less. Use that. Your character in a conversation would be prone to speak what's on his mind, no matter the circumstances.

This can have a two-fold effect:

1.) You get to have fun participating in the conversation.

2.) On occasion, you can essentially sabotage attempts at Diplomacy, making combat happen sometimes.

There are other ways to play a low Cha character (frex I've had a couple that pump Sense Motive and Perception, and spend the entire conversation scanning for threats and ferreting out falsehoods. And occasionally shouting "THAT'S B$#++!*#!" for particularly egregious lies), but the impulsive, outspoken one fits you better.


I would totally ask to be the bad cop in this situation. Allow the smart ones to attempt to "use their words" and stand back with a maxed out Intimidate. Then make sure to get introduced as a consequence for not seeing things the groups way.

Party Face- "I'm terribly sorry to hear that allowing us to pass in peace will require so much gold Sir but before we continue negotiations I think you should hear from one of our more impatient members. Bob? Can you add a few words please?"

You- (shouting) "How many of your beating hearts must I rip out from your chests and eat in front of you before you will let us pass!"

Party Face- "Thank you Bob. Now as we were discussing..."

If that doesn't work, then you get to fight. Win/win.


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If playing a Str-based barbarian, if all else fails always remember 2 simple words: Hulk Smash. These have gotten a particularly popular character through about 50 years of comics.

Party face: so, will you let us pass?

Ogre just laughs

Barbarian: Sunder attack as a full-round action on nearby large tree; said tree is cloven in twain

Ogre stops laughing

Party face: thanks, we won't be long...


I second the intimidate route. Develop a good cop/bad cop thing with the Diplomancer.

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