*snip* Besides, the only class that could never get spellfire would be, ironically, the sorcerer since you cannot multiclass into your own class...
Breaking-up your spellfire feat into two or three feats could also work. Even if the final result is strong, ASIs are a rare commodity to trade.
Okay, I derped.
I meant to give sorcerers all the things.
Why didn't I just say that then?
So, basically, you get ALL of the feat as-it-is-now if you take sorcerer levels, but you can take a feat to gain the spellflame and reserve bits.
That's what I had meant to say.
My derp.
Also, I don't want to break this into several feats (which I'd thought of doing already) as there is no precedent for feat chains in 5e. Just my design preference, really. But, I could also just keep tinkering and release it in a future book-thing.
Spellfire does a bit much for a single feat. Compared to Magic Initiate, Spellfire gives you more spells, of higher level, and even more as you level-up. Spellfire does not refresh after a long rest, but the way to recharge your spellfire is yet another set of beneficial abilities.
Spellfire has its own pool of points, its own mechanics, abilities and some improvement as you gain level. For me, this is class material, specifically a new sorcerer archetype.
Someone else had said it does quite a bit.
And I agree completely!
The trick is that anyone is supposed be able to gain spellfire, not just those who can already do magic.
However, I did just think of a way to make it into a sorcerer thingy...
I THINK I HAVE A SOLUTION!
~Place a majority of the features into a sorcerer archetype.
~Keep the feat, but it only grants a reserve (and only the absorb spell recharge) and the create spellflame feature.
This way, it would allow someone to use spellfire, but it would require a little bit more investment to get the meaty-goodness of the original concept (via levels in sorcerer).
They're not going to errata a spell that has existed this way since previous editions. And they didn't overlook the issue with the new Possession spell when they left the mind-affecting tag off.
This was a very poor attempt at humor on my part. I've been around since 2nd Edn.
Just poking fun at the senseless/needless errata that tends to come out with the things that actually matter.
Holy cats. When I first clicked on this, I was like "that is something only a noob would ask."
But I became far less certain as time passed.
Far less certain.
Noobz, you have genuinely shaken my understanding of the foundation of Pathfinder's combat system with this question. This is the kind of madness and tactical genius that I love to see in players.
Mind you, I strictly play 5e now (where this highly interesting situation doesn't even exist), but I would love to get something resembling an official ruling on this matter.
Open Mouth, Insert Foot: Fail a Diplomacy check at a crucial, campaign-changing moment.
Open Foot, Insert Mouth: Receive an impromptu amputation from something with sharp, pointy teeth.
Must You?: Play a bard and successfully seduce your way to bed with at least three different NPCs.
I Thought You Had It?: Misplace an artifact or other item that you were sent to retrieve.
Did We Forget Something?: Leave a plot-crucial NPC for dead.
Hope They're the Right Ones: Cause a riot by making the townsfolk doubt the power of their god(s).
Painting the Roses Red: Slay a group of nobles in a woodland or garden environment.
That Guy: Arrive to a session with a cheesed-out character.
Anybody Want a Peanut?: Roll a natural 20 on a Perform (oratory) check.
But It's What My Character Would Do!: Avoid having your alignment becoming changed with a well-thought-out argument.
What is That Thing!?: Have three or more of the following: Eldritch Heritage feat, sorcerer's Bloodline feature, alchemist's Mutagen feature, Aberrant Tumor feat, alchemist's Tumor Familiar discovery, summoner's Aspect feature, etc. (I'm sure there are a TON more, but this is the general idea :D)
I got into the habit of using candy as monster figures at a convention.
..... Okay, I didn't think of that, but now that it's in my head, I'm buying a ton of Halloween candy next year (when I can afford it). Not only will the money be chocolate coins,...
That is brutal. I mean, it's one thing to eat the flesh of your fallen enemies in-game, but IRL? Twisted :)
Kind of an interesting side-effect of the "unsummoner" being the only one allowed in PFS is that you are required to buy this book in some format then. Hmm...
At any rate - this whole thing is one reason why I don't do organized play at all. I'd rather folks played what they wanted (within the confines of what my game world allows) than have things be nerfed/buffed/removed/errata'd into oblivion.
I agree with most everything, but I leave the world very sandbox.
I try to run everything on the fly except for key, world-changing things. And, if they find something too hard, I try to let them have a chance to escape (they rarely take it).
Course, I also don't use combat XP to track leveling, so your mileage may vary :)
Another couple of ideas of mine that I'd forgotten about (both involve Mythic, so...):
1) the players are the denizens of a realm protected by a guardian dragon (those are the mythic ones, right?). They are kind of like the area's militia, while the dragon handles bigger disputes.
Oh. Said realm they inhabit has an unusual number of extraplanar visitors, but the dragon ensures that they are able to pass through and conduct business peaceably, even angels and demons.
One day, -something- attacks while the party is out on duty and the dragon ends up being struck a mortal blow.
The party arrives there just in time for the dragon to reveal that "they would be the keys at the heart of the problem."
What does that mean?:
There are X-number of key-shaped weapons (which can change shape and are actually Legendary Weapons) within the dragon's heart. Grabbing them...
The party gains mythic tiers this way.
Big Reveal!:
Then the guardian dragon's demiplane begins to fall apart, and they are shunted into the Material Plane.
Where they have never set foot before.
2) the players are gods. (I have this great homebrewed progression for this so that it can go from tier 1 to 10 and gain divine power as well as mythic power)
Well, gods in training.
And the older gods are all being snuffed out, one by one.
But why is this happening?
?:
I have no idea lol
------------
Another idea of mine was a game like Dark Cloud, where the world has been wiped clean, but something/one has saved the players to set it to rights. The plot for that one is complicated and uses a lot of city building stuff.
Alara Korant, a famous explorer and archaeologist, has discovered the resting place of an artifact called the Mirror of Fate. It is said that infinite worlds are held within its frame.
However, as soon as she touches it, the thing shatters.
And from (insert number of players) of these shards, alternate versions of Alara have been pulled through to the Material Plane.
-----------------
From a mechanical stand-point, I would present each of the players with a character sheet for Alara Korant with all of her stats planned out as though they would play her.
Then, I would have each of them choose two or three sections of the sheet to change in some way.
I'm not sure what I would delineate sections with, but it would be a party made of one character.
And the point of the campaign, obviously, is to stop other things from coming through the broken shards and reforge the Mirror.
I stopped paying attention to alignment a long time ago.
If anything, it hampers roleplaying rather than enhances it.
My players still list them, but I just let them live with the consequences of their actions - whatever those might be.
There is so much above that I agree with. See Rynjin and ARMR Studios for examples.
It is difficult to state my exact experiences with this class.
I haven't played it, but I have read and re-read all of the material.
And here are my final thoughts (which mirror all of my initial thoughts):
This class doesn't need to exist. Worse, it barely works as-is.
It is trying to fill a niche that can be more easily be filled by just about any other class.
I admire the effort that the Paizo staff put into this, and I love the idea of a modular class, but I feel it would be better handled as follows:
1. Turn the "social persona" feature into a feat. Do the same for any social trait "chains." As in, one feat for each chain.
2. Turn each of the specializations into a progression that any character can take. These progressions would work like mythic paths.
Now, a fighter can be a warlock at night fall.
Or a rogue could become an avenger when they don their mask.
Or a monk can become a zealot, turning their quiet contemplation into a weapon.
I really wanted to see this class work, but I don't think it can.
And this is coming from a guy that owns more Batman shirts than anything.
I know there aren't any rules for gestalt in Pathfinder, but thanks to the folks that said that for pointing it out for anyone who wasn't sure.
Keep in mind that Pathfinder is also supposed to be backwards compatible, however.
And that this class is bad right now and would do better as a feat or trait rather than its current incarnation.
@Wierdo/Skylancer: I didn't say it was part of the basic premise or design intent, just that it was required to make this class actually worth taking levels in. Or that was my point. Guess it wasn't clear enough.
@Zwordsman: yeah, gestalt is pretty uncommon overall. Except for where I game (online and Spokane area), which is odd in a general strangeness way.
@Snowblind: bard/fighter is a great combo. I was trying to play one once but didn't get accepted into the game. Sad times ensued.
Tales have existed on many worlds, for countless eons, of a world that somehow linked everything together. A place-between-places, a nexus. Scholars have long sought ways to prove such a place exists, but none have succeeded.
That is, until now.
Your world has found a way to reach this fabled realm.
Suddenly, all the myths are true. But what lies beyond the portals that lead to this infamous "Tangle?"
Many explorers have already entered the other world, bringing with them stories of a great, winding maze of immense proportions. But none have found any limits to the size of the world-that-lies-between.
A world without limits, where anything is possible...
"The Tangle" is intended to be an ongoing ENDLESS dungeon crawl. Essentially, it is a super-dungeon consisting of several smaller dungeons.
These "lesser" dungeons are going to be randomly generated via donjon and are going to be set at ECL+1 for some slightly added challenge.
This is going to be done as a PbP in an episodic style, so recurring characters are going to happen, and recruitment will be opening before each crawl begins. If you aren't involved with a run, check back to this thread every so often ;)
The exact building instructions are as follows:
0. BACKSTORY. I can't say this enough: I would greatly appreciate characters that have good backstory. You come from a world separate of The Tangle: fluff isn't just expected, it's virtually required.
1. We'll be using "Free Archetypes." This is kind of like Gestalt, but works as follows:
Choose your base class. Anything in the PFSRD goes.
You may choose one or two archetypes. (If your class doesn't have archetypes, you may use the Super Genius "Archetype Packages" responsibly.)
If you choose one, you gain all of your base class features, plus the archetype's features.
If you choose two archetypes, use the archetype that replaces the most class features as your base class, then add the other archetype for free. For example, a White Haired/Scarred Witch would gain no hexes (as white haired replaces that feature at each level it is gained)
2. Any race is fine as long as you adhere to the following:
You may choose any race in the PFSRD or develop a custom one
Either way, the race must be no greater than 15RP
3. You may trade your first level in a class (forgoing archetypes for that level) for a CR+1 template. You may only have a single template this way.
4. Use this array to generate abilities: 16 14 14 12 12 8
5. Traits: You get one for free, and a second one if you take a drawback. As long as it fits to your character's backstory, pretty much anything is golden.
6. HP is half max roll plus one after first level. First level is maxed.
7. 1st level characters start with 200gp plus a single 1st level potion (following all standard rules); all others start with WBL amount.
8. If you can craft things, no discount at first level. Sorry. This is just my way of being fair to all characters.
Something I'm considering to speed things up is using the Players Roll All The Dice variant. I would post the appropriate stats at the start of the combat. I would like thoughts on this, however, before I implement it for sure.
A variant that I will be using is SKR's "step" system for leveling up. I'll be calling them "milestones," though. Presented here for ease of reference.
Basically, instead of gaining all of your level-based features AT ONCE, this system (sanely) divides it into four sections. I'll be rewarding milestones four times per episode. That is, you will level during the episode :)
The first episode starts at 1st level. No mythic tiers. Recruitment for this episode ends next Saturday (the 25th). Spots open for four players (to start).
If I missed anything, feel free to ask and I'll respond as quickly as I can.
If you are selected, posting once per day (Tuesday through Saturday) would be greatly appreciated. I will be trying to post at least three times during those days.
If you strike out three days in a row, you will be GM'd for one session. Failure to reappear after that results in ejection from the current episode - YOU WILL NOT BE KILLED. Just sent to camp.
My wife had an idea for a creature that was kind of a like a Weeping Angel. But in reverse.
It was only aware of its own existence if it was being observed. So, it would only act if it was being actively looked at.
Would the schedules work better if your wife did the gaming?
They would, but she actively hates games. And not just Pathfinder. The only games she likes are 10000 and BS :/.
Thankfully, one of us just went from a full-time, god-awful hours job to being a student. Which leaves finding a way to get me and/or one of the other players involved.
And if I can hold out for another year, I'm planning on returning to school next September. So, that would open my schedule (and give me a degree that actually does something).
Breaking the economy is a funny thing in this game.
Here's mine:
Step 1 - start at 1st level.
Step 2 - hire as many mercenaries as you can for one week. To sweeten the deal, offer them a percentage of the loot.
Step 3 - tell them to raid... whatever.
Step 4 - profit! Oh, and now you can fund an even larger mercenary army.
Note that this... or anything... only works if the GM has no idea what's happening. So, I'd suggest a good dose of cold medicine in their Mountain Dew before attempting this one.
A breakdown of the math for those that have an interest:
Spoiler:
your character starts with about 35 to 175Gp; we'll assume averages (EDIT: AND NONE OF THAT RICH PARENTS CHEESY TRAIT TRIPE... though, that ramps my numbers up REALLY HIGH)
a trained hireling (which includes mercenaries) costs 3Sp per day
so, with a quick multiplication to adjust from G to S, we have 350 to 1750 silver at first level
350/3 = 116 or so mercenaries for one day, or you can hire 16 for one week (this is the monk)
1750/3 = 583 or so mercenaries for one day, or you can hire 83 for one week (this is the paladin)
(EDIT: 428 for one week with Rich Parents)
SO... Yeah. There you have it, folks. Conquering the known world on a budget.
But, seriously, I'm hoping that he wants to hang out with his dad and roll dice when he's old enough. I mean, I started playing MtG when I was like... 7... and D&D when I was 9... so... yeah.
