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Tales have existed on many worlds, for countless eons, of a world that somehow linked everything together. A place-between-places, a nexus. Scholars have long sought ways to prove such a place exists, but none have succeeded.
That is, until now.
Your world has found a way to reach this fabled realm.
Suddenly, all the myths are true. But what lies beyond the portals that lead to this infamous "Tangle?"
Many explorers have already entered the other world, bringing with them stories of a great, winding maze of immense proportions. But none have found any limits to the size of the world-that-lies-between.
A world without limits, where anything is possible...
"The Tangle" is intended to be an ongoing ENDLESS dungeon crawl. Essentially, it is a super-dungeon consisting of several smaller dungeons.
These "lesser" dungeons are going to be randomly generated via donjon and are going to be set at ECL+1 for some slightly added challenge.
This is going to be done as a PbP in an episodic style, so recurring characters are going to happen, and recruitment will be opening before each crawl begins. If you aren't involved with a run, check back to this thread every so often ;)
The exact building instructions are as follows:
0. . I can't say this enough: I would greatly appreciate characters that have good backstory. You come from a world separate of The Tangle: fluff isn't just expected, it's virtually required.
1. We'll be using "Free Archetypes." This is kind of like Gestalt, but works as follows:
- Choose your base class. Anything in the PFSRD goes.
- You may choose one or two archetypes. (If your class doesn't have archetypes, you may use the Super Genius "Archetype Packages" responsibly.)
- If you choose one, you gain all of your base class features, plus the archetype's features.
- If you choose two archetypes, use the archetype that replaces the most class features as your base class, then add the other archetype for free. For example, a White Haired/Scarred Witch would gain no hexes (as white haired replaces that feature at each level it is gained)
- You may choose any race in the PFSRD or develop a custom one
- Either way, the race must be no greater than 15RP
4. Use this array to generate abilities: 16 14 14 12 12 8
5. Traits: You get one for free, and a second one if you take a drawback. As long as it fits to your character's backstory, pretty much anything is golden.
6. HP is half max roll plus one after first level. First level is maxed.
7. 1st level characters start with 200gp plus a single 1st level potion (following all standard rules); all others start with WBL amount.
8. If you can craft things, no discount at first level. Sorry. This is just my way of being fair to all characters.
Something I'm considering to speed things up is using the Players Roll All The Dice variant. I would post the appropriate stats at the start of the combat. I would like thoughts on this, however, before I implement it for sure.
A variant that I will be using is SKR's "step" system for leveling up. I'll be calling them "milestones," though. Presented here for ease of reference.
Basically, instead of gaining all of your level-based features AT ONCE, this system (sanely) divides it into four sections. I'll be rewarding milestones four times per episode. That is, you will level during the episode :)
The first episode starts at 1st level. No mythic tiers. Recruitment for this episode ends next Saturday (the 25th). Spots open for four players (to start).
If I missed anything, feel free to ask and I'll respond as quickly as I can.
If you are selected, posting once per day (Tuesday through Saturday) would be greatly appreciated. I will be trying to post at least three times during those days.
If you strike out three days in a row, you will be GM'd for one session. Failure to reappear after that results in ejection from the current episode - YOU WILL NOT BE KILLED. Just sent to camp.
Just double checking, but if material is not in the srd then it is not allowed? It seems that Deep Magic is not in there.
Unfortunately, yes. SRD only. Just to make a level playing field. Otherwise, I'd allow all sorts of stuff.
When the Occult Adventures Playtest is live, I'll be allowing that material as the only real exception.
I am thinking of going psionic, but the races do not have rp spelled out. What do you want me to do?
We'll just assume that the races are around 10. I think they actually went on record as saying that they used the ARG to balance those races.
Dot for interest.
I wanted to clear something up are you saying I could take something like the advanced or giant template on my character in lo of a free archtype?
Interested in doing a psionic character
I wanted to clear something up are you saying I could take something like the advanced or giant template on my character in lo of a free archtype?
EDIT: This pairing is actually resulting in a headache trying to make it make sense. I'll get back to you all on my arbitration in a little bit.
If it were standard gestalt, dropping one class behind a level would be easy. Doing it this way, though... Is confusing...EDIT, v2: EUREKA! So, here's the best thing I can do to make this work out:
If you take the template route, you will not gain a class until 2nd level.
Instead, you will gain 1HD of whatever type you become through that template. For example, if the template is Abomination, and you started as a humanoid, you would gain one HD of monstrous humanoid.
Your template will be considered "bought-off" at 4th level. That is, if your character goes that far, you can eventually reach 20th level with the character.
THERE. SOLUTION.
Wow that is really good. It must be a grueling adventure you have in mind. I will need to think a bit on possible characters.
Edit
So if I am following, you select a template and your essential a non classed creature until 2nd level and by 4th level your template is bought off and you essential equalize becoming 4th level in your class and with the template you previously selected.
I honestly think an either or type thing would be easier IE either a free archtype or a template of +1 but I am happy what ever you feel is best/easiest for you.
That is the way I'm running it, yes. You gain the benefits that a 1HD creature of your type would (there are listings for saves, etc.) and gain 4th level at the same time as everyone else.
The only problem with an either-or approach is this: unless you opt to take two archetypes, you'll actually lag behind the party in power. Templates are one-shot boosts; archetypes grant things as you level.
And then there was the confusion of trying to reconcile allowing a template then gaining archetypes at 2nd level... which was a nightmare to think of.
So, I figured the simplest thing is to just have your character start out without a class if you want a +1 template. Then, gain those levels as normal lol
It's the best solution to the total problem that I could come up with.
That's cool I was thinking about playing something like a pure blood Azlanti from the Inner sea world guide. However I couldn't really build it using the race builder and stay under the cap. Instead I am thinking about taking normal human or slightly adjusted human with the advanced template. He was one of the progenitor races, A lost paragon of humanity. He may be the last to survive trapped within the tangle. Starting without a class could be played off as a loss of memory from an extended time in stasis. Would this tentative idea for a background be an acceptable start.
Not perfect as an azlanti, but you could play as a human and change the ability score modifier from Human Heritage (0RP) to Advanced (4RP) to simulate them pretty well. Otherwise, that idea sounds fantastic!
A note on custom races: I'm okay with minor fudging of whether something is "advanced" or "monstrous" as long as it's within the 15RP limit. For example, the above race is 14RP but uses an advanced trait. No sweat. Actually, not a bad race at all that way :)
I will need to look into that I will be the first to admit I am not very familiar with the race building rules so I may have missed something.
Is the Tangle the sort of thing people seek out, or is it found by accident/fate?
I will need to look into that I will be the first to admit I am not very familiar with the race building rules so I may have missed something.
The quick and dirty is that, instead of +2 to one stat, this race would get:
+2 to all stats of one type
+4 to one of the other type
-2 to one of the other type
Which means, with 10s across the board, you'd have three 12s, one 14, one 10, and one 8. Pretty solid.
Otherwise, they'd get all the other things humans get: bonus skill, bonus feat.
Is the Tangle the sort of thing people seek out, or is it found by accident/fate?
Yes.
As long as it fits to your backstory, that is how you found It.Heck, nothing stops someone from playing a native of the plane. There are encampments/settlements/outposts here, after all ;)
hmm thinking of sticking with the advanced template and playing with the race stuff to add things like a little extra speed and the like to really play up the paragon angle. Maybe I can look at some of my old books their use to be racial prestige classes maybe I can look at those to get some ideas.
should probably look at picking a class to lol maybe it will give me a better idea of where to go
So you ended up deciding against Gestalt then? I don't see it listed as an option any more. Sad.
Still I'll see what I can come up with. I'm guessing the two 'half' templates (fiend & celestial)wouldn't be valid? They start out as a +1 CR, but then increase in bonus as you gain hitdice.
To the first point, yes. Mostly because it actually reduces the shenanigans that I'd have to deal with. Despite having already caused one headache lol
To the second point, yes. Those templates would not be valid due to the scaling niceness. Stick to +0 or +1 templates. Which reminds me:
+0 templates are allowed, but you don't have to drop anything to pick them up. For example, I see no real differences between a normal human and an Aquatic one.
If we create a custom race, can we utilize racial class archetypes designated for official races?
Okay, let's try this now.
If we create a custom race, can we utilize racial class archetypes designated for official races?
I'm assuming you mean things like treesinger druid for elves?
If so, it's allowed as long as you have the appropriate subtypes and a good, thematic reason for it. That is, if you make a half construct race that hates plants and call it an elf... I don't think treesinger is for you ;)Also, no leeway on this one. You must have the racial type to take the archetype.
Quick opinion poll, vitalist or tactician?
Thanks for using my witch example!
I'm wanting to play a Zif. Playing a self-important, parasitic mollusk sounds crazy fun. But, the "Protective Shell" ability looks very strong, so I don't know how many RP it would translate to. I believe it was published before ARG. GM - do you mind taking a look at it and see what you think?
I'm thinking of a 'Napoleon'-type character whose culture uses the Tangle as a form of punishment and excommunication. If I were to play a Zif, a sentence to the Tangle means being cut off from the semi-collective mind...forever. This character would be dealing with the anguish caused by the absence of this connection.
I'm not sure what class this character would be yet. I usually start with a background/concept and work from there.
I do not know if I will be best as a primary or secondary healer, I am going with a blue battle medic/normal tactician.
Zif look... Interesting... That protective shell ability is pretty beefy... I'm going to say between that and odd anatomy that they are a no go :( those two abilities are crazy good.
The rest of that idea is sound, though :)
Would you consider allowing a template with an NPC and no (or later) 4th level trade out? I'm having a rough time coming up with a workable concept since I planned on taking the Giant template, as you know, and being a front line fighter. Without a class I seem to be limited to simple weapons and no armour, which is a touch awkward. Having a level in Warrior gives me access to martial weapons, armour and a few extra class skills.
Zif look... Interesting... That protective shell ability is pretty beefy... I'm going to say between that and odd anatomy that they are a no go :( those two abilities are crazy good.
The rest of that idea is sound, though :)
Fair enough. Back to the drawing board.
I realized something as I was trying to pull together my character. If I go off of the base stats out of the bestiary it may cause some unusual situations for example the base stat for humanoid is a 1d8 so I would start with 8 hp base however if my class is say wizard I will suddenly lose hp's due to my class. Other similar situation can crop up as well. I would suggest using the worst of the 2 stats presented. I believe that would take care of it. I wanted to bring the issue to your attention.
I just seen your issue JonGarrett did not mean to complicate your character creation.
No worries, non standard character creation is rarely simple. I just couldn't work out what to do with weapons. Initially I was just going to grab an exotic weapon and suck up the lack of armour, but since I don't have a +1 BAB I can't even do that.
No worries, non standard character creation is rarely simple. I just couldn't work out what to do with weapons. Initially I was just going to grab an exotic weapon and suck up the lack of armour, but since I don't have a +1 BAB I can't even do that.
There are always give and takes with templates. What class(es) were you thinking of choosing?
Is there anyway we can bypass the evil alignment if we choose an undead template?
Maybe just strip the special abilities and use the racial HD while keeping the classes normal weapons, armor, and saves. On the other hand maybe the answer is simply working it into the character background. A fighter with out his special abilities is pretty much a warrior.
Question - If we take a template that's CR+0, do we get class levels at 1st level?
Question - If we take a template that's CR+0, do we get class levels at 1st level?
As I understand it yes
No worries, non standard character creation is rarely simple. I just couldn't work out what to do with weapons. Initially I was just going to grab an exotic weapon and suck up the lack of armour, but since I don't have a +1 BAB I can't even do that.There are always give and takes with templates. What class(es) were you thinking of choosing?
Plain old fighter, most likely. I considered a Barbarian or Bloodrager but with the giant template I already have the potential for a starting 26 strength - adding to that felt filthy. I want to avoid divine classes too, since the character thinks he's a fallen god and won't worship anyone else (Although Oracle would be possible for that...). I could also see going Magus, maybe a Bladebound, but like the idea of a two handed weapon for this character. I could also go Cavlier, although I'd have to go for an Archetype that removes the mount (seems it interacts badly with Large).
Plain old fighter, most likely. I considered a Barbarian or Bloodrager but with the giant template I already have the potential for a starting 26 strength - adding to that felt filthy. I want to avoid divine classes too, since the character thinks he's a fallen god and won't worship anyone else (Although Oracle would be possible for that...). I could also see going Magus, maybe a Bladebound, but like the idea of a two handed weapon for this character. I could also go Cavlier, although I'd have to go for an Archetype that removes the mount (seems it interacts badly with Large).No worries, non standard character creation is rarely simple. I just couldn't work out what to do with weapons. Initially I was just going to grab an exotic weapon and suck up the lack of armour, but since I don't have a +1 BAB I can't even do that.There are always give and takes with templates. What class(es) were you thinking of choosing?
Mighty Godling could be a good choice. You could play it that, as you level up, your character would regain the powers of his own domain and general god-ness.
If the GM is cool with Godlings, I'd be interested in playing one. I've heard they can be a touch on the potent side though.
FOR APPROVAL
Anataniwha (Anah-tahnee-wa)
A race originally hailing from the Elemental Plane of Earth, the anataniwha were brought to Golarion several centuries ago as part of a shaitan slave-labor force. An uprising led to their escape into the Darklands, where they quickly adapted and have lived ever since. They function well enough on the surface world, but find it uncomfortably open compared to their earthen homes.
Anataniwha are humanoid in shape, with thick, rubbery blue skin and three fingers on each hand. Their faces are stark, with a wide jaw, two slits for a nose, and luminescent yellow eyes. Atop their head are a row of feeling appendages for helping them to navigate their subterranean environment.
Ability Score Racial Traits: Anataniwha are quick in body and mind, but skittish and wary around others. They gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, and -2 Charisma. (1 RP)
Size: Medium (0 RP)
Type: Outsider (native) (3 RP)
Base Speed: Anataniwha have a base speed of 30 feet. (0 RP)
Languages: Anataniwha begin play speaking Common and Terran. Anataniwha with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Aklo, Draconic, Dwarven, Goblin, and Undercommon. (0 RP)
Darkvision: Anataniwha can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.
Tough Hide: Anataniwha have a +3 natural armor bonus. (5 RP)
Cave Dweller: Anataniwha gain a +1 bonus on Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Survival checks made underground. (1 RP)
Nimble Attacks: Anataniwha receive Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. (2 RP)
Burrow: Anataniwha gain a burrow speed of 20 feet. (3 RP)
Total 15 RP
Plain old fighter, most likely. I considered a Barbarian or Bloodrager but with the giant template I already have the potential for a starting 26 strength - adding to that felt filthy. I want to avoid divine classes too, since the character thinks he's a fallen god and won't worship anyone else (Although Oracle would be possible for that...). I could also see going Magus, maybe a Bladebound, but like the idea of a two handed weapon for this character. I could also go Cavlier, although I'd have to go for an Archetype that removes the mount (seems it interacts badly with Large).No worries, non standard character creation is rarely simple. I just couldn't work out what to do with weapons. Initially I was just going to grab an exotic weapon and suck up the lack of armour, but since I don't have a +1 BAB I can't even do that.There are always give and takes with templates. What class(es) were you thinking of choosing?
You can actual have a cleric with out selecting a deity. You are considered to follow a philosophy based on your domain selection like war and protection for example. I would think that would go well with your idea.
You can actual have a cleric with out selecting a deity. You are considered to follow a philosophy based on your domain selection like war and protection for example. I would think that would go well with your idea.
So JonGarrett, you want to play a Large-sized melee type who thinks he is a fallen god?
I would suggest Warpriest, and your deity is Self-actualization.
I'm considering a Deductionist from TPK Games.
Apparently, there aren't any feats that support the class abilities. Would you allow me to 'create' feats for the class that every other class with similar abilities has access to?
Examples:
Extra Reason => Gain +2 reason points
Extra Deduction => Select an additional deduction. Must meet all prerequisites.
Normally, TPK games does this (the Malefactor has tons of feats), but, they must have run out of time or something.
Hmm I'm thinking up a magus, or maybe a soulknife or monk.
If I get Kensi as my "free" archetype, can I still wear light armor, cast, and keep the canny defence (int to AC so long as you wear light or no armor)
I am taking Outsider (native) as my "first level," but I am also planning on making a Dex-based Magus Kensai. I'm torn on combining it with Bladebound or Spire Defender. But the magus is such a versatile class that having more than one wouldn't be too difficult.
Wow. Where to start...
1. NPC class with templates are fine. You may choose any of them except Aristocrat. That actually works better than my idea.
2. +1 templates have NPC classes, +0 have PC class with 1 or 2 archetypes as normal.
3. Godlings are 100% okay.
4. The Anataniwha look just fine to me. But now I fear seeing races that dump Charisma...
5. @Library: let me review what things those points net you and I'll consider it ;)
6. @Lord Foul (and everyone else, by extension): just to simplify things, take the best of both. In this case, light armor casting and canny defense are both gotten.
Starting to wonder of Gestalt would have been easier :/
2. So if we choose a +1 template, we need to pick an NPC class rather than a racial HD?
4. Yayyy.
For reference, here is the ready character for Tanner Nielsen. His first 'level' is a racial HD. Does he need to take a level in an NPC class on top?
Sweet, Warrior into Godling works well.
For reference, I was thinking either going Generalist or Arcanist for the deductionest.